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It's like a star one billion light years away, it'll take the light from that star one billion l/years to reach us, and by then, the star will be one billion light years older. That means that we would actually be seeing the star as it was one billion l/years ago, as opposed to what it actually is like "now". Of course that is relative to it's distance from the one seeing it, but it's similar to the connection between your body and brain. This is why other life, millions of light years away, might have already gone through the stages of evolution, civilization, war, and extinction. They could have destroyed themselves before we even knew that their primitive forms even existed. |
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just like i wouldn't be surprised if in the future they found something smaller than the smallest thing that exists. and i wouldnt be surprised if in the far future, they find something even bigger, and even smaller. im just trying to say, the scale of something, is only "omg" because of how tiny we are. but we, are not the only things that matter. Quote:
what about shit like this? Physicists Find Evidence That The Universe Is A 'Giant Brain' does that not already sound like the fractals i was talking about earlier? what about all this new proof that we exist within a simulation? there are no limits. and just the fact that we can create fractal equations means something. within that equation alone, is infinity. WITHIN A FUCKING EQUATION, LIES INFINITY. and that exists within our world. it isn't physical but it is measurable. go ahead, please, be my guest. measure from the beginning to the end of a fractal equation. pick one. pick any fractal. up to you. and you're telling me our universe is limited? are you telling me only things you can see and touch exist? some people are so fucking thick headed. |
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i can give you guys a very simple example of "god". there were many ancient civilizations that worshipped the sun. they had no idea what it was, or anything. but they could feel the force of the sun. and it was beyond any force they could imagine. it was their god. you cannot deny the fact that the sun exists. the sun was their god. the sun is god. it is just a label. god is something larger than yourself, beyond what your mind can grasp. now, you must agree the mind is limitless. whatever we grasp, immediately comes into existence something beyond that, something that we cannot grasp (as of yet). and one day we shall understand what it is. but immediately, as we realise whatever it may be, the existence of something greater, beyond our grasp will have emerged. that alone is infinity. that alone is ONE of the many definitions of god(s). if you cannot grasp that concept, well, whatever, just be a rock. |
when I read the title I thought we found a new terrorist cell 0_o Pretty cool that we can discover such things. I kinda got annoyed when they initially thought nothing should exist past 1.2 billion light years and we have been using that standard for a while. I know it is a theoretical best guess, but I think after this discovery its safe to say that nothing is impossible. Im exited to see new explanations on previously assumed theories since im sure this will provide or change quite a bit of data. Posted via RS Mobile |
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you are also having a hard time differentiating Quantum Mechanics with General Relativity. Quote:
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Wonderful scientific news. On a semi-related note, on the topic of religion, youtube: "cargo cults" and you'll understand where religion really comes from. Ignorance. I'm not denying some of the positive aspects of religion, but imo, I think our culture and intelligence allows us to move beyond religion. |
im talking to a rock here. listen, it's very obvious you're just regurgitating information that you've learn in school or some book. if it's not in the book, it does not exist. sounds very much like religious fanatics and their holy books. it's very easy for you to just go back to some text book and point at some formula, or say it's not in the book, so it's wrong. look at the bigger picture, beyond your text books and academia. Quote:
you know there is a version of you from the past, that did not believe there was something smaller than a molecule. and then there was a version of you not so long ago that did not believe there was something smaller than an atom. here's an example... space. take slice of space. cut it in half, and keep doing it. are you not eventually going to end up with a space smaller than a string of energy? you can keep cutting that space in half. can you not? if not please explain why not. im just talking about a vacuum of space. or does it not count because it is void of matter and energy? it still exists does it not? is there not space between strings of energy? can you measure this space? if its measurable does it not exist? Quote:
there is no need to categorize them as separate, there is no need and no point. existence, is existence. Quote:
stephen hawking say the two are contradictory and cannot both exist. yet you can get remarkable pin point accuracy predictions with both. whatever, who cares! for the point of this argument, they both exist (perhaps not 100% accurate), under the umbrella in which we reside. Quote:
there's FAR more "out" there than just what you can experience with the 5 senses. also what about the holographic principle/universe? there's more evidence that suggests that it exists than it doesn't. Black hole information paradox??? the mere idea of these things existing, blows this LQG out of the water in terms of "size". an infinite amount of anything could exist in any pocket of space at any time man. and please answer my question about the fractals. a small example of something fractal like is Penrose tiling... it completely lacks translational symmetry, but it's still self similar... ex. if you keep zooming out same patterns keep emerging at larger and larger scales. which also raises another thing... if an unlimited amount of 2d things can exist within 3 dimensions... and an unlimited amount of 3 dimensional things can exist in 4 dimensions... and an unlimited number of 4 dimensional things can exist in 5 dimensions... etc.... yes? starting to understand? an unlimited number of things already exist within an unlimited number of other things. and you're telling me if science cannot measure or gauge these things, they don't exist? what about, existence of ideas? are you telling me because you cannot measure things of the mind, they do not exist? you're obviously a man of science. but science is useless unless you have insight to the unseen and unknown. the bigger picture, beyond current understanding, is what drives science forward. the way you choose to think, or perceive things, limits you to your little bubble of understanding. like an ant walking in circles until someone shows it a new path it never thought was possible. if it exists in the mind, it will be pursued by science until it exists in the physical world. remember, science is but a branch UNDER philosophy. all i gotta say is, to think a certain way or not believe in possibilities beyond what you can understand or measure, is to totally limit your chances of exploring new discoveries (this article being a prime example, people would have defended with their life that such a large object cannot exist, but yet it does). |
Of course this happens right when I have been on a Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson binge. |
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The original post was the quote box and the short bit about people believing in God. The edit was adding the info on Quasars. |
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Spoiler! Nates obviously view the world he is taught and shown. His imagination is not wide enough to even imagine that there are something greater than space itself, which is more space. If his memories were wiped and be placed in a room, his universe would be the room. If people in the room (who have visited outside the room) tell him that there is places outside the room, he wouldn't believe it, he wouldn't even imagine it. Think beyond your limit, open your imagination. EDIT - Didn't they recently discovered a new atom or molecule or whatever? I can't find the news but some scientist discovered that there are something smaller that created something. EDIT AGAIN - Just thought of the perfect example of what Ulic is talking about. Imagine a rope, how it's made of smaller ropes, that are made of threads of string, that are many strings combined together, etc. Now imagine string theory, what if the string of energy is made of tinier strings of energy that have yet to be proven? And then imagine these strings of energy... you get my point. Now imagine the rope, instead of going smaller, let's get bigger. Using more ropes twirled together to create a thicker and wider rope. Now use that, with many, twirled to make bigger ropes. Get the idea? |
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I believe in string theory, more so M-theory, which is based on the presence of multi-universes existing on membranes. You guys are lost. The irony in both your posts is larger than the Large Quasar Group itself. |
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They did not discover a "new atom" or "new molecule", they discovered a new elementary particle (Higgs Boson) which is part of the Standard Model. They are also not 'discovering' smaller 'things', they are 'theorizing'. They have theorized that electrons and quarks are made up of 1-demensional strings - based on that theory, there is nothing 'smaller'. Oh, and what you both are trying to 'explain' to me with your rope metaphors is in essentially 'limits' in calculus - which does not apply here. |
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The speed of light determines what we see, and when we see it. When something is far enough away, the image it casts through the universe is delayed more and more the farther it is from the potential viewer, due to the speed in which that image can be carried (speed of light). Our sun could go supernova, yet an observer even a light year away would still see our solar system as it was a light year before. They would not know that all of us had been wiped out by our own sun until a light year after the fact. A good way of easily imagining this is as follows: - You are on one end of a road that is a light year in length, and a clone of you is standing at the other end. - You both start waving at eachother at the same time in reality While you would both actually be waving at eachother at the exact same time, you wouldn't see him start to wave until a light year after the fact, the same goes for your clone on the other end. Your body touches the present, our minds watch the past. |
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and you failed me because...??? because you don't think anything bigger can exist??? and we're arguing that there is no limit of size and it is infinite in both directions. and you're doing nothing but telling us to look at equations and theories (which if we base this article on, the LQG shouldnt exist). Quote:
you have not answered anything I have asked you to answer. nor have you tried to explain why it's wrong or why it cannot be brought up in this argument. we're now just asking you to explain yourself. we have tried to explain ourselves, but you do nothing but say we understand nothing, yet you explain nothing. like i said, the debate is this: LQG discovered, bigger than scientifically thought possible. zomg, it's so huge. BUT, things that make the LQG seem like an atom MOST probably exist somewhere in some place. we are failed for this reasoning. why? |
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at this level of Quantum Mechanics, you can't prove anything because you can't test it. you can't find anything smaller by using the LHC, because at this level, it is all about theory and the subsequent mathematics. Quote:
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the reason for the differentiation is because physicist can't yet explain 'the universe' so-to-speak, and thus reference 'the observable universe' as 'our' universe. what i mean by that is there could be multiple universes, multiple big bangs, based on multiple theories. Quote:
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i believe in multiple dimensions. Quote:
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i hope my last 3 or 4 posts have cleared things up. |
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What I was trying to say is, which side is the past if both sides sees images that are years ago? But technically, looking at a star that has supernova is looking at a star of the past. It's like talking into a telephone with lag or delay. Your message reaches the person 10 minutes later, so technically, he heard the message that was 10 minutes in the past. |
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but lets... step back for a moment... and look at history as a whole... do you really really really think, given an infinite amount of time, we will not discover ANYTHING smaller, or come up with theories in which smaller things exist? ever??? EVER?!?! what about 0 dimensional? can something smaller exist in 0 dimensional space than in 1 dimensional space? (serious question). i mean, you're willing to explore these theories already, and you say you cant prove anything because they're all theories and we dont have any means to test it. if you're already willing to accept these theories, shouldnt you be willing to explore beyond the theory? it's only logical. step by step, the unknown/possibilities leads the war of knowledge right? Quote:
yes i understand we cannot "observe" past our observable universe... but we're smart enough to know something exists beyond it. so you're saying because we cannot "test" anything beyond our observable universe... we should ignore it? that sounds very... almost the inverse of jumping to assumptions... assuming what's out there doesn't matter (WE KNOW IT'S OUT THERE!!!) Quote:
...so... Why do you disagree with my statement that the LQG may be just ... minuscule compared to objects in all of existence (observable or not). Quote:
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they are both presently observing the past, which happened at the same time... |
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You mentioned telephones, it's as if both people said "hello" at the same time, and the signals from both were intentionally delayed by ten seconds. Both people still said hello at the same time, but they didn't hear eachother until ten seconds later, no matter which side they were on. We do not literally exist in the past, but we all have the natural ability to see it. You can look back in time just by watching the night sky, which is also why light pollution is such a tragedy in cities. |
The researchers and the dreamers; one saying "this is what we know now and look at the extent of all our knowledge and how much it explains!" the other saying "If we've learned this much so far, imagine what we think we know now that we'll learn is totally wrong!? Think of all the cool things we'll learn that contradicts what's now fact!" Fifty years ago String Theory barely existed; who's to say what'll come in the next fifty? |
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