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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 02-13-2013, 07:56 PM   #51
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[I realize how much of a hypocrite I sound like, but it's equally as ridiculous that the police can pull you over for doing nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]

Cops don't have to wait until you do something wrong. It's not rediculous to stop a driver to check if they are impaired, prohibited, unlicenced, to check if goods are stowed safely etc. the Cdn Supreme Court says it's Ok to check for those types of things.

I stopped tens of thousands of vehicles in exactly those circumstances. I told them up front why they were being stopped and not one ever objected if they were not breaking any law.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:42 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by zulutango View Post

Cops don't have to wait until you do something wrong. It's not rediculous to stop a driver to check if they are impaired, prohibited, unlicenced, to check if goods are stowed safely etc. the Cdn Supreme Court says it's Ok to check for those types of things.

I stopped tens of thousands of vehicles in exactly those circumstances. I told them up front why they were being stopped and not one ever objected if they were not breaking any law.
I was referring to doing the speed limit, not checking somebody out for what you listed.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:44 AM   #53
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The vehicles I stopped often were doing the speed limit, or just driving by. I used to sit in the middle of the road in a protected lane area and stop vehicles at random as they drove/rode by. You would be surprised at what I found being done by people not visibly exhibiting any criminal/illegal behaviour. Stolen property, outstanding warrants, stolen vehicles, no insurance, drugs, prohibited drivers, impaired drivers, severely defective vehicles (rusted frames, bald tyres etc), weapons.....
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:37 AM   #54
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^ These "profiling" methods being enforced at will by the Police quite often breach our rights as Citizens, bottom line is the bottom line you can't argue that in any form or manner I don't care if you're the gotdamn Prime Minister.

And what's ridiculous to me, is how the Police absolutely love to justify these methods, but when it really comes down to the nitty gritty, it doesn't even really work the way it's supposed too... I remember reading in the news some guy get pulled over with kilos of Cocaine and end up having charges dropped because because the officer at the scene exceeded his authority..
Not that I'm condoning this idiot and his drug smuggling, but I will neither condone a Canadian Citizen's Charter Rights being breached.

Police here tend to get caught up in the "end justifies the means" mentality which off course works so well in countries like the US. *end sarcasm*


edit:: link here
Supreme court quashes drug conviction over illegal search - Canada - CBC News
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #55
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^ These "profiling" methods being enforced at will by the Police quite often breach our rights as Citizens, bottom line is the bottom line you can't argue that in any form or manner I don't care if you're the gotdamn Prime Minister.

And what's ridiculous to me, is how the Police absolutely love to justify these methods, but when it really comes down to the nitty gritty, it doesn't even really work the way it's supposed too... I remember reading in the news some guy get pulled over with kilos of Cocaine and end up having charges dropped because because the officer at the scene exceeded his authority..
Not that I'm condoning this idiot and his drug smuggling, but I will neither condone a Canadian Citizen's Charter Rights being breached.

Police here tend to get caught up in the "end justifies the means" mentality which off course works so well in countries like the US. *end sarcasm*


edit:: link here
Supreme court quashes drug conviction over illegal search - Canada - CBC News
Profiling methods? It is called a police check stop. At the end of the day, if you are an honest citizen/driver, with nothing to hide, why do you care if the police stop you to verify your licence, sobriety, and/or insurance, to name a few things? Do you not want to live in a safe society? Do you think that it is that much of an inconvenience to be pulled over/stopped now and then, to have shitrats removed from the streets?

And with respect to the link you posted, mistakes happen. Police officers are human, and the general public are protected, too much imho, by the Charter of Rights, where loophpoles are all over the place, in favour of the accused.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:04 AM   #56
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^ you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this, sorry man no offense I don't think you understand what's being discussed there, and that's like the most basic opinion in regards to a discussion as serious as this.

It's just not that simple
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:05 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
The vehicles I stopped often were doing the speed limit, or just driving by. I used to sit in the middle of the road in a protected lane area and stop vehicles at random as they drove/rode by. You would be surprised at what I found being done by people not visibly exhibiting any criminal/illegal behaviour. Stolen property, outstanding warrants, stolen vehicles, no insurance, drugs, prohibited drivers, impaired drivers, severely defective vehicles (rusted frames, bald tyres etc), weapons.....
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^ These "profiling" methods being enforced at will by the Police quite often breach our rights as Citizens, bottom line is the bottom line you can't argue that in any form or manner I don't care if you're the gotdamn Prime Minister.
WHAT in the BLUE F*CK are you babbling about??

Profiling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
pro·file n.
1. a. A side view of an object or structure, especially of the human head.
b. A representation of an object or structure seen from the side. See Synonyms at form.
2. An outline of an object. See Synonyms at outline.
3. Degree of exposure to public notice; visibility: preferred to keep a low profile.
4. A biographical essay presenting the subject's most noteworthy characteristics and achievements.
5. A formal summary or analysis of data, often in the form of a graph or table, representing distinctive features or characteristics: a psychological profile of a job applicant; a biochemical profile of blood.

6. Geology A vertical section of soil or rock showing the sequence of the various layers.
tr.v. pro·filed, pro·fil·ing, pro·files
1. To draw or shape a profile of.
2. To produce a profile of.
Now, how does this fit the definitions of "profiling"?

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The vehicles I stopped often were doing the speed limit, or just driving by. I used to sit in the middle of the road in a protected lane area and stop vehicles at random as they drove/rode by. You would be surprised at what I found being done by people not visibly exhibiting any criminal/illegal behaviour. Stolen property, outstanding warrants, stolen vehicles, no insurance, drugs, prohibited drivers, impaired drivers, severely defective vehicles (rusted frames, bald tyres etc), weapons.....
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^ you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this, sorry man no offense but that's like the most basic opinion in regards to a discussion as serious as this.

It's just not that simple
Funny you should say this, as you clearly have ZERO IDEA what you're talking about either. Claiming "PROFILING" is like the most basic cop-out fall-back wank non-thinking idiots trot out when they want to slam cops but can't come up with anything intelligent on their own.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #58
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^ you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this, sorry man no offense I don't think you understand what's being discussed there, and that's like the most basic opinion in regards to a discussion as serious as this.

It's just not that simple
I don't know what I am talking about eh? Okay. If you say so.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #59
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dude Soundy come on, get real.... we ALL know what I'm saying when I use the term profiling, it's generally used to describe what I'm describing....

and in an attempt to stir shlt, you try to dictionary me ? that is super weak dude, are you for real or some master troll ?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:22 AM   #60
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dude Soundy come on, get real.... we ALL know what I'm saying when I use the term profiling, it's generally used to describe what I'm describing....

and in an attempt to stir shlt, you try to dictionary me ? that is super weak dude, are you for real or some master troll ?
Where is your evidence to support police "profiling"? The link you posted certainly does not.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:39 AM   #61
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dude Soundy come on, get real.... we ALL know what I'm saying when I use the term profiling,
Then why don't you say what you actually mean, instead of pulling out the same tired mis-used term? Oh wait, I know why: because you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:02 AM   #62
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Where is your evidence to support police "profiling"? The link you posted certainly does not.

Sorry bro I came off harsh when I said you didn't know what you were talking about. Apologies bro
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #63
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Sorry bro I came off harsh when I said you didn't know what you were talking about. Apologies bro
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That is fine. But I still want to know where you are getting your information.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #64
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That is fine. But I still want to know where you are getting your information.
US TV shows... YouTube videos from anti-police groups... or just making it up as he goes along.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:22 PM   #65
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The vehicles might be random to a certain extent.

It can be viewed as random because he does not know anything about the vehicle.. yet he has a purpose of pulling it over because it gave some clue to the things he is looking for:
Spoiler!


Zulu's way of pulling vehicles over at random could be just completely random. Yet I have seen cops that will "profile" to be able to give out more traffic fines.


The Charter of Rights & Freedoms is there to protect the citizen. USA is a complete Police State where if a cop wanted to do something, and the unsuspecting citizen didn't know his rights, the cop would get away with it.

Cops are given a power of authority and the Charter is there so they don't cross the line.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #66
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The vehicles might be random to a certain extent.

It can be viewed as random because he does not know anything about the vehicle.. yet he has a purpose of pulling it over because it gave some clue to the things he is looking for:
Spoiler!


Zulu's way of pulling vehicles over at random could be just completely random. Yet I have seen cops that will "profile" to be able to give out more traffic fines.


The Charter of Rights & Freedoms is there to protect the citizen. USA is a complete Police State where if a cop wanted to do something, and the unsuspecting citizen didn't know his rights, the cop would get away with it.

Cops are given a power of authority and the Charter is there so they don't cross the line.
Again, please give an example, rather than generically saying "i have seen cops".
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #67
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An example would be:

Burnaby RCMP sitting on the median at Lougheed & Willingdon.
They park their cruisers up on the median underneath the skytrain on Lougheed.
They will stop cars in the Westbound left turn lane, and talk to them. If they bring up your too low, and you decide to argue in any way, they will then ask you to drive your car up onto the median aswell. (Because their cruiser could)

If you fail. You get a ticket for being "too low."

Lets not forget, the median does have a small slope to it, yet it is about 8-10" tall overall.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:23 PM   #68
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Yea you guys definitely got me, Police profiling does not exist in Canada, geez what was I thinking when I said that


but nah for real don't want to derail thread or anything like that, I was just responding to Zulus statement of him chillin on the side of the road and just pulling over whoever.... anyway fellas, proceed
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #69
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An example would be:

Burnaby RCMP sitting on the median at Lougheed & Willingdon.
They park their cruisers up on the median underneath the skytrain on Lougheed.
They will stop cars in the Westbound left turn lane, and talk to them. If they bring up your too low, and you decide to argue in any way, they will then ask you to drive your car up onto the median aswell. (Because their cruiser could)

If you fail. You get a ticket for being "too low."

Lets not forget, the median does have a small slope to it, yet it is about 8-10" tall overall.
Did this happen to you, personally? I believe the cops that were camped out there were mainly targeting drivers who were using their cell phones, and probably seat belts. Of course if they see something that goes against the MVA/MVAR, it is their duty to enforce that as well. Driver's who lower/modify their cars should be aware of the MVA and its respective regulations. If they do not, then they run the risk of being fined, or asked about it.

My previous car was a modified 91 integra, and I was never hassled for being lowered 2.25", and an aftermarket exhaust. To get the attention of police officers, your vehicle must be standing out for a number of reasons, whether it be level of noise, or estethics. The fact that you choose either or both, you should expect to be noticed, and sometimes it will be by cops.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #70
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They tried to do it to me.. Yet I know all the MVA's for lowering.. From headlight-ground clearances, to the bottom of the rim being the lowest legal part of the car. I pretty much said "You and I both know I'm not getting up that thing. Yet we both know I'm not breaking any rules." (snails is the new owner of my car. You can see his pictures of how low the car is.. IIRC he lowered it another 0.5" since he bought it from me)

I've also seen it happen to others. (Used to take 123 bus home from that intersection after getting off skytrain Monday-Friday while going to school)

But yes, they are there mainly for the seatbelt/cellphone check. I'm just saying that it does happen, not trying to get into an argument myself.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:14 PM   #71
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They tried to do it to me.. Yet I know all the MVA's for lowering.. From headlight-ground clearances, to the bottom of the rim being the lowest legal part of the car. I pretty much said "You and I both know I'm not getting up that thing. Yet we both know I'm not breaking any rules." (snails is the new owner of my car. You can see his pictures of how low the car is.. IIRC he lowered it another 0.5" since he bought it from me)

I've also seen it happen to others. (Used to take 123 bus home from that intersection after getting off skytrain Monday-Friday while going to school)

But yes, they are there mainly for the seatbelt/cellphone check. I'm just saying that it does happen, not trying to get into an argument myself.
I still don't see how that is "profiling". They saw a vehicle that was obviously modified, and low. They challenged you on it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:47 PM   #72
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It is NOT safer to speed, no matter how much you want to justify your civilian law. It is your responsibility not to crash into someone for obeying the law, and it is their responsibility to move over when someone like you storms along the left lane. The "flow of traffic" is not that much faster than the limit, but it is still over the limit.

Here's a clip from the ICBC book titled "Towing a recreational trailer"

(PDF Link) Page 27

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Driving slower than the flow
If you travel more slowly than the traffic flow, you increase your chance of
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become impatient and follow too closely or try to overtake your vehicle. After
passing, they may cut in leaving you with little or no room for a quick stop.
"Sorry officer, the ICBC book told me I was at a higher risk of being in a crash if I wasn't traveling with the flow of traffic". "Doesn't matter, here's the ticket".

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Old 02-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #73
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They tried to do it to me.. Yet I know all the MVA's for lowering.. From headlight-ground clearances, to the bottom of the rim being the lowest legal part of the car. I pretty much said "You and I both know I'm not getting up that thing. Yet we both know I'm not breaking any rules." (snails is the new owner of my car. You can see his pictures of how low the car is.. IIRC he lowered it another 0.5" since he bought it from me)

I've also seen it happen to others. (Used to take 123 bus home from that intersection after getting off skytrain Monday-Friday while going to school)

But yes, they are there mainly for the seatbelt/cellphone check. I'm just saying that it does happen, not trying to get into an argument myself.
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I still don't see how that is "profiling". They saw a vehicle that was obviously modified, and low. They challenged you on it.
It's not "profiling". And as far as "I've seen it happen to others", when you're zipping past on the loser cruiser, you have NO, ZERO, ZILCH idea why a cop may be pulling over someone else, so there's NO, ZERO, ZILCH way you can call it "profiling".

In fact, if anyone is "profiling", it's you - YOU see the car that's been pulled over, and you're making assumptions on why it happened.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:21 AM   #74
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It's not "profiling". And as far as "I've seen it happen to others", when you're zipping past on the loser cruiser, you have NO, ZERO, ZILCH idea why a cop may be pulling over someone else, so there's NO, ZERO, ZILCH way you can call it "profiling".
NEVER did I ONCE say I was ON the bus to witness the incidents.

I WAIT for the bus at the corner of Willingdon & Lougheed to GET ON it.

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In fact, if anyone is "profiling", it's you - YOU see the car that's been pulled over, and you're making assumptions on why it happened.
It's happened to me.. Read above.

Thanks for making assumptions though.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:24 AM   #75
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Way to defend yourself with nitpicking. On the bus, waiting for the bus... irrelevant. The point remains, you're not the person pulled over, you're not the cop, so you don't know what it is that's catching the cop's attention and enticing him to pull someone else over. Ergo, you have no cause to claim "profiling".
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