using phone to change songs whole waiting at red light??

[nsx042003]

haha well...that renders all handheld GPS illegal (cellphone GPS included), be it mounted or unmounted, because once you look at the screen you are breaking the law.

[kross9]

that makes me wonder about infotainment systems on some of the newer cars they can be very distracting compared to plain radio

[YaKuZa_GS]

Originally Posted by Spidey

as per this

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/osmv/share...le-driving.pdf

Hand-held audio players
A person may listen to sound from a hand-held audio player if:
 The device is not held in the person’s hand;
 The device is securely fixed to the motor vehicle or worn securely on
the person’s body in a manner that does not obstruct the person’s
view of the front or sides of the motor vehicle or interfere with the
safety or operating equipment of the motor vehicle; and
 The sound is emitted through the speakers of the sound system of
the motor vehicle
Note 1: The driver may pre-program or set the device to play while the vehicle is safely parked
and off the roadway.

Note:1 referrers to hand-held that is not secure. It has already stated securely fixed to the vehicle is permitted.

so technically you broke the law. you are supposed to preset the ipod like you would a gps... and you are not allowed to look at the screen.

Not according to the MVA. The MVA Is very specific

Under exempts for GPS 8(2)(a) states
is programmed before the person begins to drive or operate the motor vehicle, or

However is it not specified under Audio Player

Anyways, I've felt I've done my due diligence. I'm gonna present my findings and let you know the results a year from now LOL. You and I (as well as anyone of this forum) would agree that it is no different from skipping a track or radio station on a OEM head unit.

Its just mind blowing that this is legal...


...and I get ticketed for this

[jonwon]

^ lmao

[sebberry]

Note 1: The driver may pre-program or set the device to play while the vehicle is safely parked
and off the roadway.

Says "May", not "May only".

I break the law nearly daily skipping songs on my phone, and I can't even see my phone while doing so it's so far out of my peripheral vision. I tend to do it more while my car is moving, because doing it at while stopped at an intersection is more likely to be observed by member of the local constabulary peering into cars.

By the goofy reasoning tossed around here I should have crashed several hundred times by now.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by YaKuZa_GS

Note:1 referrers to hand-held that is not secure. It has already stated securely fixed to the vehicle is permitted.




Not according to the MVA. The MVA Is very specific

Under exempts for GPS 8(2)(a) states
is programmed before the person begins to drive or operate the motor vehicle, or

However is it not specified under Audio Player

Anyways, I've felt I've done my due diligence. I'm gonna present my findings and let you know the results a year from now LOL. You and I (as well as anyone of this forum) would agree that it is no different from skipping a track or radio station on a OEM head unit.
]

Where does it say note 1 only refers to hand held devices that aren't secure? It is implied above the note 1 that the hand held devices have to be secured.

[sebberry]

Why does this legislation have to be so ridiculously convoluted?

If you're demonstrably distracted - ticket.
If you're not demonstrably distracted - no ticket.

End of story. Christ almighty.

[wing_woo]

Originally Posted by YaKuZa_GS

So I have a very similar story to the OP. And I have no problem admitting guilt and owning up to my mistakes and coughing up money for a ticket. But this time I truly believe I was in the right.

My SUV is old and I use my iPod as my music source as well as GPS and always have it holstered in a charger very similar to this image below. and the headphone jack to one of those old tape players


I was driving home to Richmond tonight from Vancouver and stopped at a red light at an intersection waiting to make a left turn. During the red light, I was skipping tracks on my device (please keep in mind it is still holstered). A second later I look to my right and there is a cop on a motorcycle who is looking at me and points his finger to pull over. The light turns green, I make my left turn and pull over about a 1/4 block after the intersection.

I roll down my window as the officer (VPD) approached and he tells me "It looks like you were texting. Do you know its illegal to use a phone while driving?". I told him "Yes, I know but I wasn't texting" and grabbed the iPod and said "you can have a look if you don't believe me" and he replies "don't worry I'll tell you how to make the ticket cheaper" and walks back to his bike and writes me up for a 214.2 (1)

I suggest you getting the officers notes before the court date. He said he stopped you cause he thought you were texting. However, you couldn't have been texting because you were using an iPod, not an iPhone. Maybe you can see if that's what he wrote in the notes as grounds for stopping you. Not sure if it would help or not as I think he didn't write you up for texting but doesn't hurt to look at his notes to see the basis of his argument/charge.

[underscore]

The law is against device use, not just texting...

[Raid3n]

if the ticket is section 214.2 then it is specifically for texting.

Originally Posted by MVA

Prohibition against use of electronic device while driving
214.2 (1) A person must not use an electronic device while driving or operating a motor vehicle on a highway.

(2) Without limiting subsection (1), a person must not communicate by means of an electronic device with another person or another device by electronic mail or other text-based message.

i believe you can request an itemized list of your sent/rcvd texts from your provider (not 100% sure, i know you can for calls) to further prove you were not sending texts at the time of the offense.

[underscore]

My bad then, I stand corrected.

[wing_woo]

Originally Posted by Raid3n

if the ticket is section 214.2 then it is specifically for texting.



i believe you can request an itemized list of your sent/rcvd texts from your provider (not 100% sure, i know you can for calls) to further prove you were not sending texts at the time of the offense.

Which is why I was saying to get disclosure from the officer. The device you were using was an Ipod as was stated and cannot be used to text.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Raid3n

if the ticket is section 214.2 then it is specifically for texting.



i believe you can request an itemized list of your sent/rcvd texts from your provider (not 100% sure, i know you can for calls) to further prove you were not sending texts at the time of the offense.

wrong 214.2(2) is for email and texting. 214.2 is the charge sections for using an electronic device while driving, whether under sub section (1) or (2)

Section 214.2 (1) Use an electronic device while driving
Section 214.2 (2) Emailing or texting while driving

in case you didn't believe me, it's from here, http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/...eside/89_97_04

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Why does this legislation have to be so ridiculously convoluted?

If you're demonstrably distracted - ticket.
If you're not demonstrably distracted - no ticket.

End of story. Christ almighty.

so ticket them after they failed to see the pedestrian crossing a marked crosswalk and sending the person into their windshield? ok sure.

[CCA-Dave]

Originally Posted by YaKuZa_GS

Its just mind blowing that this is legal...


...and I get ticketed for this

Yup. Poorly written laws for sure. What is even more mind boggling is that if you push the buttons on the radio behind your ipod, that's 100% legal. And if you get me started on touch screen setups that require moving your eyes down every time...well, I'll probably fill this thread with ranting.

-Dave

[underscore]

I hate all touch screens, and I especially hate them in cars. Anyone designing an OEM radio or HVAC that requires me to pull over to change things like the station or temp should be tarred and feathered.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Spidey

so ticket them after they failed to see the pedestrian crossing a marked crosswalk and sending the person into their windshield? ok sure.

Where have I ever said someone should be fiddling with their iToys while operating a moving vehicle?

I know the concept is difficult, but stopped is not the same as moving.

[SoNaRWaVe]

why do you beat this topic to death seb? you sound so butt hurt for some reason.

with your logic, its as simple as not operating an electronic device while operating a vehicle. moving or not. that message has been pushed numerous times through various media outlets yet you pick on this one single point.

if you know that you might get hassled or ticketed by the cops, why even bother doing it at a stop light? it sounds like you really want to go to court contesting the point that "operating a vehicle with a handheld device in hand is different when you are at a stop light vs when in motion"

the whole point is that your focus is on the road regardless if you are moving or not.

is it really that hard to get to where you are first, then check your phone? if you have the need to skip songs that often on your phone while driving (stopped or in motion) maybe you should preload better songs.

Originally Posted by sebberry

I break the law nearly daily skipping songs on my phone, and I can't even see my phone while doing so it's so far out of my peripheral vision. I tend to do it more while my car is moving, because doing it at while stopped at an intersection is more likely to be observed by member of the local constabulary peering into cars.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by SoNaRWaVe

if you know that you might get hassled or ticketed by the cops, why even bother doing it at a stop light? it sounds like you really want to go to court contesting the point that "operating a vehicle with a handheld device in hand is different when you are at a stop light vs when in motion"

No, I don't want to end up in court for pressing a button.

Should you be stopped, ticketed and dragged into court for adjusting the temperature of the heater? For changing a station on the car's factory radio?

[Unit91]

Originally Posted by Raid3n

if the ticket is section 214.2 then it is specifically for texting.

i believe you can request an itemized list of your sent/rcvd texts from your provider (not 100% sure, i know you can for calls) to further prove you were not sending texts at the time of the offense.

You don't have to be sending messages to be distracted by texting. Most of the infractions related to hand held cellphones I deal with are people reading text messages, which also takes your eyes and focus off the road. This is why your text or call log generally isn't accepted as a form of dispute. Texting and calling aren't the only two things banned on a phone and/or electronic device there is also;

- Updating your Clash of Clans village
- Having a facetime conversation with the phone positioned on the dash, against the windshield right in front of the driver's face
- Making updates to your college/uni paper with the laptop in the passenger seat (not HOLDING the laptop right?)
- Checking the time...4 or 5 times in the stretch of a few hundred meters, despite the clock on your stereo being in perfect working order. (There is a high number of people it seems that just don't trust their in vehicle clocks, Apple time is apparently much more precise. )


Drivers could save themselves a huge headache if they simply read the law at its word and quit trying to reinterpret each definition or think there is some sort of unwritten "allowable limits". Holding the phone up to your mouth and using speaker phone, somehow makes it now hands free? Despite using your hand to hold it?

Don't use an electronic device while operating a motor vehicle

If you can put a check mark beside each of those things you're probably justified in getting a ticket.

And yes, using your in vehicle CD/Navi deck is distracted driving depending on your level of interaction with it. There's a reason for radio presets and the "Seek" function. Even if the deck came with the car, scrolling through every station manually, while adjusting the EQ and updating your new GPS coordinates isn't acceptable. Heed the warning on virtually every built in screen: "Interacting with this device is dangerous and may be in violation of your local state or province"

[rriggi]

Getting pretty tired of these questions. If you have to be on your phone, do it when there are NO cars around and you aren't going to be seen. Not at a redlight, not on the side of the road, where you become a hazard.

If you get caught, you deserved it, and stop trying to justify it. I use my phone sometimes when I drive, but I also agree with our electronic use laws as well. If you see a cop, get both hands on the wheel and stop testing cops by pushing buttons in the car and playing with the nav.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by sebberry

No, I don't want to end up in court for pressing a button.

Then don't press the button. Problem solved.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Unit91

Checking the time...4 or 5 times in the stretch of a few hundred meters, despite the clock on your stereo being in perfect working order. (There is a high number of people it seems that just don't trust their in vehicle clocks, Apple time is apparently much more precise. )

You'd think they would have learned after using Apple Maps...

[minoru_tanaka]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Then don't press the button. Problem solved.

If there's a cop near me, I don't touch anything. If you're so unaware that you can't see a cop pulling up beside you.......

[geeknerd]

its a stupid law. if you guys get bored while driving, just bring a magazine or newspaper. if you hold it with both hands and place it ontop of the steering wheel, its pretty safe. Dont forget to put your cellphone in the glove box though, cops might think you're looking at the phone and then ticket you anyway if you dont secure it somewhere unusable.