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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 03-07-2013, 01:47 AM   #1
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Speeding ticket and no display N sign near Osoyoos

My friend and I were on our way to meet up friends in Nelson camping, in HIS CAR during the summer, and He is class 5 and I was still a New driver. The original plan was for him to drive the whole way since it was his vehicle. So after driving about 6 hours (around 1045pm) , he is noticeably fatigue and asked if I could take the wheel. I said yes as it would be dangerous for him to keep driving. Fast foward 30 minutes, I was following a truck driver on a street that was leading towards the highway. As the street bends, I see a police officer camping on the other side of the road. As i pass him, he turns on his sirens, u-turns and proceeds to pull me over. He gives me a ticket and says I was going 80 in a 60 zone. I was definitely not speeding because I was actually looking for the highway exit because i didn't want to miss it, and I was following a truck driver, so they are supposed to be within speed limit. Also, he gave me a ticket for not displaying an N sign. Because it was my friends car, he was falling asleep at the wheel, and I wasn't planning to drive, do I have grounds to dispute the ticket?
Given the circumstances, how would I go about proving my innocence?

Thanks for the input
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:08 AM   #2
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innocence? Take a look at the back of your license, Read restriction line 47. You broke the restrictions and got caught. If you had at least made an attempt to make an N display for the back you might have just gotten the speeding ticket. Proving you were not speeding is going to be difficult
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:14 AM   #3
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I understand that not having an N sign makes me at fault. Also, because it was already so late at night, we didn't have any pen, paper or tape accessible. I also didn't plan on driving at all. But given the circumstances, would I be able to change the offence to "No display of N sign" rather than "Driving contrary to restrictions"? One has no points while the other has 3 points.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:21 AM   #4
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You might be able tobut i dont know if you could,, that is kinda harsh
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:28 AM   #5
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You could try contacting the officer before hand and explain the circumstances. He may switch the ticket over but he may not. If you disputed it you'd have to travel to their local court (probably Grand Forks?).

For the speeding, the officer will put forward his evidence and you would have to disprove or discredit his evidence. If all you have is what you posted here then it's likely not going to work very well.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:40 PM   #6
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i think you should dispute this ticket. it of course is hard to win, any ticket you're disputing is going to be hard to win. if it was easy to win then you wouldn't have had the ticket to begin with!

even if you lose this dispute you wont lose more than what you're already being punished with (ie it can't get worse for you..)

and if your lucky the officer might not show up. if he does ask for an adjornment cause your seeking legal advice, and hope that he doesnt show up the 2nd time. and if he does show up then try this...

Cross examine the officer. ask him if he recalled a truck in front of you. get your friend to testify saying that there was a truck in front of you, and you guys were trying to find an exit. if there is a truck right in front of you then challenge the fact that his "speed radar" probably clocked the truck not you, since the truck is a bigger object.

i have seen tons of people get off a ticket (including me), by showing some doubt in the case in which the officer is presenting. most people have no evidence to provide cause how could they? unless they had a camera on their car.

btw did he show you the speed radar reading when he pulled you over? on your ticket on the top right corner is there a speed #...(most officers put the reading there)
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanhas View Post
He gives me a ticket and says I was going 80 in a 60 zone. I was definitely not speeding because I was actually looking for the highway exit because i didn't want to miss it, and I was following a truck driver, so they are supposed to be within speed limit. Also, he gave me a ticket for not displaying an N sign. Because it was my friends car, he was falling asleep at the wheel, and I wasn't planning to drive, do I have grounds to dispute the ticket?
In theory, if the guy in front of you goes 100 in a 60 zone and you do the same, are they still supposedly in the speed limit? It's a bad idea to presume that your speed is a safe speed if you're driving just as fast as the guy in front of you. As for the cop only pulling you over, I guess you were on the short end of the stick on that deal.

The better question is, were you, without a shadow of a doubt, driving at precisely 60 or under in that designated 60km/h zone? If you were, then you have a reason to dispute.

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I understand that not having an N sign makes me at fault. Also, because it was already so late at night, we didn't have any pen, paper or tape accessible. I also didn't plan on driving at all. But given the circumstances, would I be able to change the offence to "No display of N sign" rather than "Driving contrary to restrictions"? One has no points while the other has 3 points.
Knowing your situation, if your friend was tired, he should have just pulled over and got some quick shut-eye instead of letting you take the wheel, had you known what was gonna happen to you if you didn't have an N sign ready to use.

You said that you did get ticketed for a lack of an N sign, but you didn't say anything about driving contrary to restriction in the OP missing details?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #8
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lack of n sign is technically "contrary to restriction". Nice cops will let you off with "failure to display n sign" which has no point. Dick cops will nail you for "contrary to restriction" with 3 pts. No way to fight that.

It sucks because they take away your license at 5 pts or something whn youre class 7. So speeding+contrary to restriction = gg. He probably handed you with a smile on his face. Therefore, if you have your class 5 road test within a year, dispute the ticket, take the class 5 then plead guilty in court later. That way you got out of the N restriction. If you dont dispute and they take your license, you will have to wait another 2 year to take the test.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:01 PM   #9
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I took a little road trip down to Seattle a few months back with a friend of mine who's in possession of his N. While the plan was for me to do all the driving down there, there's always the chance that something could happen; I slip and fuck up my arm, I get too tired and can't find a coffeeshop, what have you. So I told him to bring his N.

Take it as a lesson moving forward: Plans are plans. They don't always work out the way we expect them to. Always be prepared.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:49 AM   #10
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i think you should dispute this ticket. it of course is hard to win, any ticket you're disputing is going to be hard to win. if it was easy to win then you wouldn't have had the ticket to begin with!

even if you lose this dispute you wont lose more than what you're already being punished with (ie it can't get worse for you..)

You will loose the $25 per charge discount for early payment.. Plus you have to travel to court and back at what cost$$


and if your lucky the officer might not show up. if he does ask for an adjornment cause your seeking legal advice,

Assuming the JP permits that...as you will have many months to get it from ticket time to your court date. I would object and believe the Cop will too.

and hope that he doesnt show up the 2nd time. and if he does show up then try this...

Cross examine the officer. ask him if he recalled a truck in front of you. get your friend to testify saying that there was a truck in front of you, and you guys were trying to find an exit. if there is a truck right in front of you then challenge the fact that his "speed radar" probably clocked the truck not you, since the truck is a bigger object.

The Cop will likely give evidence that supports his decision to charge you. If you were following the truck then the Doppler audio shift will tell him when the beam shifts from the truck to your car. If you were driving at the same speed as the truck then it doesn't matter if the reading came from you or the truck does it?

i have seen tons of people get off a ticket (including me), by showing some doubt in the case in which the officer is presenting. most people have no evidence to provide cause how could they? unless they had a camera on their car.


This is the one thing you said that I agree with


btw did he show you the speed radar reading when he pulled you over?

Not required.



on your ticket on the top right corner is there a speed #...(most officers put the reading there)

There is no place on the VT to list the speed. As many JPs told people who raised that in court during my trials, you don't want the speed listed there anyway. If they want to reduce the speed they are charging you with ie give you a break...and the real speed is there...then it is not happening.
Once again, the internet discussion forum is not the best place to get legal advice.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanhas View Post
My friend and I were on our way to meet up friends in Nelson camping, in HIS CAR during the summer, and He is class 5 and I was still a New driver. The original plan was for him to drive the whole way since it was his vehicle. So after driving about 6 hours (around 1045pm) , he is noticeably fatigue and asked if I could take the wheel. I said yes as it would be dangerous for him to keep driving. Fast foward 30 minutes, I was following a truck driver on a street that was leading towards the highway. As the street bends, I see a police officer camping on the other side of the road. As i pass him, he turns on his sirens, u-turns and proceeds to pull me over. He gives me a ticket and says I was going 80 in a 60 zone. I was definitely not speeding because I was actually looking for the highway exit because i didn't want to miss it, and I was following a truck driver, so they are supposed to be within speed limit. Also, he gave me a ticket for not displaying an N sign. Because it was my friends car, he was falling asleep at the wheel, and I wasn't planning to drive, do I have grounds to dispute the ticket?
Given the circumstances, how would I go about proving my innocence?

Thanks for the input
You aren't innocent, so how could you prove your innocence? You are an N driver, driving without an N on the car. Guilty.
Truck drivers NEVER speed...LOL. Last summer I towed one into our impound yard for a 7 day excessive speed, in a Super B. Over 140 in a 100 zone.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:09 PM   #12
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It sucks but at the end of the day the circumstances don't matter unless there was an emergency (tip: there wasn't) You got caught driving in a vehicle that did not have an "N" displayed and received a ticket. There's honestly no other way to put it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:02 PM   #13
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losing the 25$ discount is realy negligible in the big picture in terms of points and ticket fine..

anyways, you could also plead guilty too. which would reduce your ticket fee.

you dont know what the cop will argue exactly, he might not even know how to respond in terms of the truck in front of you. he might not even show up. it's worth a try to dispute, then plead guilty if you think you have no real argument. ive seen it done and the judge always gives people a discount, including me.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:15 PM   #14
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Next time, if you don't have an "N" with you just let the drowsy friend drive. It's safer that way.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:40 AM   #15
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So much for...."road safety through education"....
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:36 AM   #16
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Zulu's sarcasm detector has fallen out of calibration.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:38 AM   #17
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I'm pretty sure it works fine. I just think his troll detector takes precedence.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:45 AM   #18
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My troll detector-detector is not indicating any use of a troll detector.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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If you can't afford to "pay the troll"...then you must obey. As it is written, so it shall be done.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #20
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you could always try to dispute it, then come court time apologize, plead guilty and try and milk it so they maybe take the points off ya.

Just say you were in the wrong and you have no problem paying the appropriate fine and just say you learned your lesson and wish to see the points removed.

Don't know, just a thought from someone who is inexperienced with this stuff.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:13 PM   #21
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If you pay a fine, you get points. Only way you get out of points is if you get out of the whole damned ticket.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:48 PM   #22
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^ i've seen in court a person plead guilty and requested to only have the fine and omit the points. the judge said ok.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:35 PM   #23
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Judge was mis-informed about his/her abilities, unless he/she amended the ticket to "Registered Owner" from "Driver" without mentioning it.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:10 PM   #24
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^ i've seen in court a person plead guilty and requested to only have the fine and omit the points. the judge said ok.
Only time I've ever heard of points being removed was the issuing officer changing the ticket from one with points, to a similar one without points.

ex. Drive contrary to Restriction was reduced to Failure to Display N.
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