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Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Technical Discussion > Advanced Forced Induction & N/A Engine Tuning

Advanced Forced Induction & N/A Engine Tuning This forum is brought to you by Racing Greed in Port Coquitlam.
Supercharger vs Turbocharger vs NA? Hondata vs Megasquirt? 94oct vs 87oct? Through technical discussion, let's find out what will the best option for you...

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Old 03-10-2013, 06:49 PM   #1
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Crappy Canadien Fuel??

So ive come to realize that our fuel in Canada sucks...

Ive had a knock issue with my tune for quite some time and have been chasing it down, and in the end I think its down to the tune.

Its tuned for 91 but its a canned tune from the states.

Ive always ran Chevron 94 thinking its the best out there but after alot of reading it seems alot of people are having the same sort of issues I have.

So the question is..:

Has anyone found a fuel other than race fuel that doesnt seem to knock as much?

Ie Shell, Petro etc?

Or am I just going to have to learn to tune and tune my car for the gas we have up here and maybe add some meth.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:21 PM   #2
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I thought american fuel was worse than ours?
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:50 PM   #3
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They have a lower octane rating but ive been reading on a bunch of forums saying that guys running chevron 94 are getting alot of knock issues and have started going down to the states to fill up with 92 and get less knock on the 92.

From a tuner stand point ive read that our 94 tunes like California 91.

Just interesting overall...I thought a octane rating was a octane rating and it was all the same.

Just trying to see if any tuners have found less issues with lesser octane rated fuels locally or if a "local 94" tune is in need.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:30 AM   #4
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Our fuel is definately worse than American fuel. It has been proven on our dyno countless times with US based tunes detonating on the dyno. We recently conducted a test of our Chevron 94 vs. US Chevron 92 on one of our employee's 2002 stock Subaru WRX. The subaru is a good test vehicle because it has exceptional knock detection and is viewable on our datalogger.

The first series of tests were conducted at equal boost and ignition timing values with no knock detected.

Test 1 - US Chevron 92 octane:
We did 7 back to back dyno runs with which varied from 170-172whp.

Test 2 - CDN Chevron 94 octane:
We did another 8 back to back runs which varied from 162-164whp.

Surprisingly that's around a 5% difference in power at the same boost level and ignition timing value. Another interesting fact was that the US 92 ran slightly leaner than our 94 which must of contributed to the power gain.

This test didn't tell us anything about the detonation resistance of our 94 versus the US 92 but interesting data none the less. We will be conducting more tests down the road and will be posting the results under this section.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #5
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Seems to be a problem mostly in Western Canada. The guys over in Eastern Canada are able to run 4-5 degrees more timing than what I can run on Chevron 94.

Does anyone know if 91 + 10% ethanol gives better knock resistance than 94?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #6
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I'm tuned on Chevron 92, usually run Chevron 94 out here...

A lot of the US Tuned Canadian Evo's (from evom/evoxforums) run Petro/Husky out here because most people tend to see less knock.

On my previous tune I used to get quite a bit of knock on Chevron 94, but on my most recent tune I haven't had any issues *knock on wood*.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:40 PM   #7
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Seems to be a problem mostly in Western Canada. The guys over in Eastern Canada are able to run 4-5 degrees more timing than what I can run on Chevron 94.

Does anyone know if 91 + 10% ethanol gives better knock resistance than 94?
Agreed. We were remote tuning a car in eastern Canada and we could use 4 degrees more ignition timing compared to a local car with the same setup.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #8
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I'm tuned on Chevron 92, usually run Chevron 94 out here...

A lot of the US Tuned Canadian Evo's (from evom/evoxforums) run Petro/Husky out here because most people tend to see less knock.

On my previous tune I used to get quite a bit of knock on Chevron 94, but on my most recent tune I haven't had any issues *knock on wood*.
Interesting.

I should have done a baseline run on the dyno before my Dinan flash but looking at my results, there was a lot of detonation/pinging using 94 Chevron on my E36 M3.

I may switch to something else, either down to Petro Canada or Shell.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #9
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Im hoping that the Petro Canada Ultra 94 comes out here. Gives us another option.

I guess next tank im going to give Petro 91 a shot and see what happens.

I got a guy with the exact same tune but in the states to log for me and he had next to no knock on Hess 93.

Worse case scenario I guess I have to pick a fuel and add piles of meth to get the timing I want.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #10
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This is kind of an interesting read. Its off of the Petro site. Maybe 91 with ethanol will offer more knock resistance.



Why is ethanol an effective octane booster?

The octane number written on the gas pump is Anti-Knock Index (AKI). Itís an average of two octane ratings using the same test equipment but using different operating conditions. The methods produce a Research Octane number (RON) and a Motor Octane Number (MON). Both were once considered important and thatís why AKI is an average of the two. With modern engines and fuels systems, recent studies have shown that RON is more important than MON. So in these cars, the higher the RON the better these cars perform. For an AKI rating of 91 the lower the MON the higher the RON. This difference is called sensitivity. All gasoline components have different sensitivity. Most hydrocarbon components have low sensitivity. Ethanol has high sensitivity and so, modern performance cars benefit from gasolines with ethanol. Why does ethanol have higher sensitivity? One reason is related to the cooler combustion that results from ethanol combustion. Higher knock tendency is directly related to higher combustion temperature.
Here is a comparison of two fuels with different octane with and without ethanol.

91 Grade - no ethanol
RON 97.2
MON 85.6

Ultra 94 - with ethanol
RON 101.5
MON 88

Notice the difference in RON number from 91 grade without ethanol (97.2) and the RON of Ultra 94 (101.5). The difference is 4.3 numbers. That is significantly more than the 3 numbers difference between 94 and 91 AKI labelled on the pump. That is why gasoline with ethanol can be the best performance fuel for today's cars.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:30 PM   #11
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Im hoping that the Petro Canada Ultra 94 comes out here. Gives us another option.
No. That won't happen, I don't believe. They had 94 at one point but discontinued it quite a while back as they felt that there was no market for it. It wasn't worth their while to sell 94 anymore. Chevron is the only gas station in BC that still carries 94.

From a butt dyno standpoint, Shell 91 (or was it 92?) seemed pretty good. So that may be another option to consider. I won't be hitting the dyno anytime soon however so your mileage may vary.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #12
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so should i use chevron 91 or 94? after reading the posts above, it seems 94 is not worth the extra $.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:38 PM   #13
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so should i use chevron 91 or 94? after reading the posts above, it seems 94 is not worth the extra $.
Western Canadian Chevron 94 is still better than Western Canadian Chevron 91 so if you car was tuned with the 94 you should still be using it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:02 PM   #14
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thank goodness my car is stock, never have to worry about it eh lol I'm happy with my stock V8
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:31 PM   #15
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I used to run chevron 94, Now i run shell 91 and according to datalogs the shell knocks less than the chevron.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:43 PM   #16
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Love that shell! Been with it for 4 years now
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:31 PM   #17
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I used to run chevron 94, Now i run shell 91 and according to datalogs the shell knocks less than the chevron.
According to your data logs, is the difference in knock significant?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:46 PM   #18
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A guy I know ran into issues with knocking when running Chevron 94 but after he switched back to 91 the problem went away. This was on a vehicle with quite an amount of engine modifications b
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:33 AM   #19
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Interesting...

Ill post up when I get this tank down, and switch.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:51 AM   #20
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I used to run chevron 94, Now i run shell 91 and according to datalogs the shell knocks less than the chevron.
Interesting! I've always wanted to test this on the dyno.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:38 PM   #21
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I'm very interested in this topic. I think I'll try shell 91 on my next fill up and will do some logs with the same tune I currently run with the Evo IX. I'll also see how the car responds to some timing adjustments and post my results.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:56 PM   #22
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So now I wonder why the hell 94 would knock more then 91 of the "other guys" fuel.

Kinda makes me mad actually that ive been paying for what I thought was the best fuel we can get.

That being said.

Is chevron 94 better if its tuned for then 91 or is the 91 still better??
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #23
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I'm very interested in this topic. I think I'll try shell 91 on my next fill up and will do some logs with the same tune I currently run with the Evo IX. I'll also see how the car responds to some timing adjustments and post my results.
What are you using to keep logs? I'm curious and I don't believe there are commercially available tools for BMWs.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:28 AM   #24
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So now I wonder why the hell 94 would knock more then 91 of the "other guys" fuel.

Kinda makes me mad actually that ive been paying for what I thought was the best fuel we can get.

That being said.

Is chevron 94 better if its tuned for then 91 or is the 91 still better??
Tuned for 91 use 91.

94 is a waste of money.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:15 PM   #25
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Umm....its a canned tune..

From the states.

If it knocks on 94......how do you think 91 is going to do.

But after reading about Chevron 94 not being the best and guys are getting less knock on different gas..im going to try 91, and also US 92.
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