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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 03-18-2013, 01:13 PM   #1
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ICBC claim police only witness

I had an accident last October where I was turning left on a late yellow and an SUV came and it appeared the SUV was stopping but went through and I got hit on front right side of my car and I spun around and SUV hit back passenger door. After I got spun, I hit a 3rd car that was waiting on red but they said they saw nothing so Long story short, I got 60% fault and they got 40% because there were no witnesses and 'it's usually left turner's fault and I should be very happy I got that'.

I read the other driver's report and she says in her report that she ran green light which is a total lie. The only person who was first there at the scene was the police who gave the other driver a ticket for speeding and running yellow light (this is part I'm not sure and they don't tell me).

At the time, the police clearly asked the oncoming driver "WHAT DO YOU DO ON A YELLOW LIGHT" and she hesitated to answer and then pretended not to speak any English and finally thru her friend said "you just go through" but no one believes this and I cannot get a hold of the officer and not even sure what he'll say if they do get a hold of him.

3 months have passed and I am pushing ICBC as much as possible to get a hold of the police to at least hear what he has to say but cannot get a hold of the office ever since. He went on a sick leave and then vacation and I left him several voice mails. ICBC is very reluctant to even try to reach the constable.

What are my options now. ICBC offered me compensation for my injuries 'only if accept today all the fault since it's only $400 difference on my insurance over several years' and I refused because I honestly cannot accept to something I didn't do. They did not run green light and I'm willing to go to court but at the same time I want to end it as well.

I already told ICBC i felt better and went to physio 3 times. I did not contact a lawyer.

ICBC has not mentioned anything else about compensation to me for pain I went through and I don't know what's going on with that. What information I can get about police before contacting or should I just arrange a court date and request the officer be there?

Thanks for any advice in advance.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:37 PM   #2
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AFAIK, the only time you wouldn't be at fault, is if the SUV had ran a red light. Other than that, you will always be at least mostly at fault.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #3
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I'm trying to dispute 2 things here.
1- ICBC never talked to the police officer at the scene (although he's no where to be found and not returning calls)
2- they're mixing my compensation for pay with this and the other car is claiming they ran a green light. So a late yellow is the same as running a green? is there any point in pursuing this any further?
There were 2 oncoming lanes of traffic and one car had already stopped and I stopped as soon as I realized the SUV entered the intersection instead of stopping so it came straight thru and hit me so I did everything in my power to avoid the accident.

Last edited by hurric; 03-18-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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You should get a lawyer and try to resolve it that way. It doesnt cost you anything.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:32 PM   #5
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A few things here

1) you failed to yield on a left turn, and you are lucky YOU didn't receive a ticket for that. Both of you should have received a ticket

2) Police do not investigate who is at fault for motor vehicle collisions. They enforce the MVA which in this case, the other driver got a ticket for failing to stop at a yellow light

3) ICBC deals with who is at "fault" and your insurance rates. You are very lucky you weren't at 100% fault, and the reason why you may have gotten a 60/40 could be because of the police report.

4) Even if the other driver ran a red light, your vehicle proceeded into the intersection at a red light as well, making you just as liable.

People need to realize that when they are waiting to turn left at a light, they get mad and honk oncoming cars that run a yellow or even a red, but in reality the drivers that are turning left have the least right of way.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #6
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It's my understanding that as long as the driver isn't running a red (ie light turned red before they crossed the line), then it'll be your fault. Think about it this way: if they're at fault because the light was yellow, then what's stopping people from busting a no-look left when the light goes amber?
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:29 PM   #7
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I was waiting since a green light to make a left, and then light turned yellow, another vehicle already stopped from oncoming traffic. I'm not looking for 0 fault but shouldn't ICBC at least speak to the police officer at the scene before making a decision? I waited and the car was behind the intersection when I made my turn and even stopped as soon as I realized the oncoming SUV was not stopping. I got hit in front right of my car then spun and she hit the back passesnger side.

Lawyer is too late to get because i already said i got healed and all lawyers are only ever interested in settlement and not in liability.

Also they tried to offer me settlement and I refused and they offered as a big higher offer if i accept by the end of business day that day and accept the fault as is and I still refused. they say we have no witnesses so we just made a decision.

Now I'm not sure how to approach them about my settlement or what to ask because now they think the ball is in their court.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:59 PM   #8
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ok so it seems that the girl ran a yellow/late yellow and you thinking she was going to stop, proceeded to make your FULL left turn which in reality what ended up happening was she hit you , correct? ok so if this IS the case, i think you ARE lucky you are only found 60% at fault. like others have said, in these situations, wether its a green/yellow , YOU are supposed to wait until its FULLY clear before turning. Yes she should have stopped, but im guessing she was going too fast to make a SAFE stop and thus she kept going, which she can do

you state "What are my options now. ICBC offered me compensation for my injuries 'only if accept today all the fault since it's only $400 difference on my insurance over several years' and I refused because I honestly cannot accept to something I didn't do. They did not run green light and I'm willing to go to court but at the same time I want to end it as well."

which the fact is that YOU didn't yield to the oncoming traffic and got hit because of it. I'm still a little loss as to what exactly you are trying to fight here? anyone would take a 60/40 instead of 100% at fault...considering MOST of the times a left turner is found 100% at fault. Why does it matter if she ran a green or a yellow?

Im not trying to go against you here, sorry if im coming off like this. im just trying to make sense of it
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:12 PM   #9
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I'm trying to say talk to the police officer who's the only person because the other driver on their statement said "they ran a green light"

ok so what should I tell ICBC now.. I still haven't settled my injury claim. I will be calling the police officer on friday because he's not returning our calls and he as on sick leave 3 months so there's been a huge gap since then.

how should I settle my injury claim and end it all after they talk to the police officer (which I don't know will make any difference but at least they should talk to him and not just tell me we can't get a hold of him)
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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but it doesn't matter if she ran a green or a yellow. i think thats what im trying to get at :P so no point on getting a hold of the officer if thats all you're looking for, unless you have the time and patience and you just want to do it to get back at the lady lol

as for a settlement..i wouldn't know. Never claimed injury , even though i should have my first time i got in an accident, so i wouldn't know whats fair. i guess only you can really decide?
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I'm trying to say talk to the police officer who's the only person because the other driver on their statement said "they ran a green light"

ok so what should I tell ICBC now.. I still haven't settled my injury claim. I will be calling the police officer on friday because he's not returning our calls and he as on sick leave 3 months so there's been a huge gap since then.

how should I settle my injury claim and end it all after they talk to the police officer (which I don't know will make any difference but at least they should talk to him and not just tell me we can't get a hold of him)
if ICBC believed the other driver's statement in that she ran a GREEN, do you really think ICBC would let you off the hook by saying it was 60/40 and NOT 100% YOUR FAULT?
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:26 PM   #12
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You turned left before the intersection was clear. You're at fault. Doesn't matter if the light was green or yellow.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:24 AM   #13
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You didn't yield.. you deserve more than 40% fault, since it's NOT YOUR RIGHT OF WAY.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:43 AM   #14
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As a left turner, you're responsible for making sure that you enter the intersection when it is safe to do so. Just because it is yellow and the other driver stopped and another is gunning it through, you still have to yield. I know it sucks and I don't necessarily agree with it but this is why I wait until every car is stopped even if it means waiting for the light to turn red or have the car(s) behind me honk at me.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:49 AM   #15
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You should get a lawyer and try to resolve it that way. It doesnt cost you anything.
no lawyer would take this case because there are no injuries to claim. there is no way for the lawyers to get their 30%
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #16
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I think the guy knows he's at fault. The question is what %. This is important because the % of fault impacts the amount of settlement received due to injury.

Ultimately though I think you should just move on with your life for the following reasons:

ICBC is for sure going to find at least 25% at fault so either way your premium will increase.

You've said that you only went to physio 3 times (which ICBC should have paid at least a portion if not all of it under the no-fault benefits) and you've said you're already better. So that makes it sounds like your injury was relatively minor and so any potential settlement is going to be minimal. Let's say you negotiate $1000 for this. If they find you 40% at fault, then you'll only get $600. Is that worth it to you?

Lastly, if you can't get a hold of the officer, you can contact the police department and ask for a copy of your accident report (the officer should have provided you with a copy) and you can send that to ICBC. It may or may not help you.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #17
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You turned left before the intersection was clear. You're at fault. Doesn't matter if the light was green or yellow.
Can't believe I'm about to agree with Marco, but... THIS.

Ultimately, it doesn't even matter if the light is red - it's up to THE LEFT TURNER to MAKE SURE THE TURN CAN BE COMPLETED SAFELY before proceeding.

As most of the others have said, you're extremely lucky that ICBC has stuck you at only 60% fault instead of 100%. If you keep pushing it, they may change their minds - QUIT WHILE YOU'RE AHEAD!

As far as what the other driver is saying, the fact that they only assigned you 60% fault makes it pretty clear they don't believe her. If they did believe she was going through on a green when she hit you, guaranteed you'd been looking at 100%.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #18
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A lot of people panic on a left turn because they think the other side's light will turn green.
Left turners are allowed to stay in the intersection and finish their turn for as long as it takes to make a safe, complete turn.
If you're going straight and your light turns green, it doesn't mean you now have the right to plow everyone in front of you. Green still means that you can freely enter the intersection when safe. If a left turner has not completed their turn yet, it's not your right of way.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:09 PM   #19
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^
this

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I can't speak for those who didn't go through the GLP but for anyone who did and has read the roadsense book, there's no excuse for not knowing this. It states pretty clearly that when the light turns red, you're legally allowed to complete your turn and that cross traffic must yield to you.
Not knowing that you can turn left on a red light onto a one-way street is excusable (barely) because it's not a common manoeuvre, but left turns are.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #20
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People need to realize that when they are waiting to turn left at a light, they get mad and honk oncoming cars that run a yellow or even a red, but in reality the drivers that are turning left have the least right of way.
Is that true, even in a red light situation you have the least right of way when turning left? I would think you have the right of way because you're technically already in the intersection while the other guy isn't???
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:54 AM   #21
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Is that true, even in a red light situation you have the least right of way when turning left? I would think you have the right of way because you're technically already in the intersection while the other guy isn't???
Yeah, you cannot proceed until it is clear even though the light is red. However, all other cross traffic do not have the right of way even though their light is now green. They have to give you the right of way to complete your turn before they can stop because you are already in the intersection and they cannot proceed until it is safe (ie. until after you have cleared the intersection).
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #22
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^
this

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I can't speak for those who didn't go through the GLP but for anyone who did and has read the roadsense book, there's no excuse for not knowing this. It states pretty clearly that when the light turns red, you're legally allowed to complete your turn and that cross traffic must yield to you.
Not knowing that you can turn left on a red light onto a one-way street is excusable (barely) because it's not a common manoeuvre, but left turns are.
The problem is usually the second or even third driver that is trying to make the left turn. Only ONE car is allowed to be in the intersection waiting to make a left turn, but you always see a second, and sometimes a third car try to squeeze in and make the same left turn seconds after the light has already turned red. Usually, if the light turns red, and the first car makes the turn, they won't have any issues with cars coming from their left/right running into them because of the delay. But in this situation where the OP was hit by a car in the opposite direction, he failed to clear the intersection before proceeding. He was turning left. The other car was going straight. Both had the same light,
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:48 PM   #23
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The problem is usually the second or even third driver that is trying to make the left turn. Only ONE car is allowed to be in the intersection waiting to make a left turn, but you always see a second, and sometimes a third car try to squeeze in and make the same left turn seconds after the light has already turned red.
There are some intersections I travel through regularly, I'll see four or five blast through on a left turn after the light has changed. Just today, I was eastbound 96th Ave at King George, waiting for the light... westbound had the advance green... I saw our light turn green... and three more big westbound pickups sailed on through turning left.

Even better is just down the road from here, at Dewdney Trunk and Lougheed Hwy. westbound just before the Pitt Bridge: eastbound Lougheed typically has two lanes of cars waiting to turn left to Dewdney, so they get an advance green. At the same time, westbound Dewdney has two lanes that merge onto Lougheed with a "no right turn on red" rule, so they get the green while eastbound traffic has the left. And EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I'm waiting on westbound Lougheed, I'll see that light go red... and people just keep flowing through. And our light will go green, and anywhere from three to six more cars, in BOTH right-turn lanes, will keep flying through the red.

This, to me, is proof that traffic cops don't have quotas. Fishing hole?? An entire detachment could set up around that blind corner and it would be not just SHOOTING fish in a barrel... but tossing a stick of dynamite in that barrel. They could make a six-month quota in one afternoon if they set up there (nevermind all those who cheat down the bus-only lane on Lougheed).
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