Yes, a momentary lapse of concentration.

The speed limit is 80km/h and the average speed is 100-110km/h on 176th, making the average speed sufficient to create that degree of damage (as I understand). Given this, I do not see the driver as severely negligent (ie. drunk), and I afford him, his family, and his friends the same degree of sympathy as all the other victims involved. I will not condemn a person for a minor mistake, one we've all made. I've no interest in further debating this topic with you or anyone else, pm me if you really feel the need to respond.

News Hour right now says the red car was so destroyed, they can't even tell what kind it was.

The white van was westbound on 32ndm, blew through the red and hit the red car. The speed limit on 32nd there is 60km/h. The van ended up 200m past the intersection. The speed involved must have been insane - if that driver wasn't negligent, then you must have a whole new definition for the word. Based on information so far, it doesn't sound like the driver on 176th was at fault at all, nor was his speed even relevant.

Why debate in PM? Afraid you're going to be proven wrong? The details so far suggest a very high rate of speed, far above the posted limit of 80km/h. The driver made two mistakes - driving too fast and running a red (if that's true). Only one of those is a "momentary lapse", the other is downright negligence.

Ssshhhhhh. You're not allowed to say "speed kills" on RS. You'll get a bunch of people claiming the speed limits are too slow, that modern cars are so much better designed they can drive faster or that sports cars can defy the laws of physics. Then you'll get the other group that brings up statistics about the causes of accidents, noting that speeding is way down the list and try to claim speeding doesn't kill without realizing that we're talking about two completely different things (the cause of the accident and the results of the accident). The cause is running the red light, the result (extent of damages and injuries) is directly related (exponentially, I might add) to vehicle speed.

I don't think Mindbomber is concerned about "being proven wrong" nor is he known for shying away from a mature debate.

My hope for this thread is that it doesn't turn into a huge debate and I am sure that is why mb requested that should you take issue, you do so over PM or start a new thread.

Not trying to get into a political discussion here but this will certainly be a topic during tomorrow's debate seeing as how just yesterday cristy clark admitted to blowing a red with her kid in the car and brushing off the signifance of the act by stating " hahaha it was 5 am" (just saw the clip on the news few minutes ago) sort of indicating that running a red is only wrong if you get caught. Poor family and relatives.

Tragic situation, I'm going to hug my kids a little tighter tonight.

So sad. The red car probably never saw it coming. I always use caution when I roll through an intersection. Regardless if I have the green or not. Too red light runners these days

Quite sad listening to the reporter describe the events of the crash and knowing there are bodies under those tarps.

Holy shit, RIP. Not sure if it's the recording, or if the reporter in the second link is emotionally unstable as it appears her voice is rather shaky.

RIP and condolences to those involved. I go through that intersection sometimes when I pick up my mom/brother from work and whenever I go down south. Very sad.

yeah, i saw that this morning. had to rewind it and watch again because i was SURE nobody would be that dumb. guess i was wrong.

saw the news about this crash and thought about what Clark said....a little sickening...

fuck. senseless!

And the worst thing is, if it is proven the van ran the red light, he'll get a fucking slap on the wrist.

Pisses me off.

i find it hard to accidently blow thru a red light, yellow ok but red means you were trying to speed up and catch the light. feel sorry for the other car that got hit, this guy literally couldnt have done anything to prevent this which is bullshit

Why shouldn't this be a debate? There are many issues to discuss that are relevant. The facts about how fast everyone was going, whether drugs/alcohol were involved or if anyone ran a light will come out soon.

- Should a person get a pass on killing 5 people if they make a "mistake"?
- Is speeding a mistake? How about excessive speeding?
- Should people driving under the influence get a more severe penalty?
- What if the car that got hit is in the wrong, but because of the other driver speeding excessively an accident occurred where one normally wouldn't have if they were going the speed limit? I was once found not at fault for changing lanes and striking another car because they were speeding excessively and closed the gap between us faster than was reasonably expected.

What good does it do people on RS if members debate something privately through PM's? The whole point of a forum is for people to share so everyone can discuss or debate issues. Someone could bring up very good points in a discussion - should those be kept private?

If anything MB could have suggested starting a separate thread to discuss issues leaving the main thread for condolences. To me that makes far more sense than "this is what I think and if you don't like it take it up privately".

Funny, I saw the same interview and didn't get that at all... came across more like "yeah I did it, but it was 5am, not like it was rush hour". Wonder how many of those making a big deal out of it have never committed a minor traffic infraction and gotten away with it?

People are only making a big deal out of it because of this other crash. Without that, it would have been little more than a footnote.

I dont think people are making big deal of it because of the recent accident. Clark running the stop sign was reported this morning....no doubt this will add to the story, but I thought it was a huge deal before this.

I agree and it came across the same way to me but it's reported that her son said "my mom always does that" wich if true changes things. I'm not trying to make it a big deal its just mesmerising looking on at how the 'ish just always seem's to land right at her feet at the most inopportune time.

she thinks shes above the law. :rukidding:

RIP to the individuals...good wake up call for those who drive "dangerously".





On a side note, how come you're so eager to slap down your E-d*ck and prove the guy wrong? Make use of that fail button instead of provoking someone in a thread that is clearly dedicated to the accident. Better yet, take his suggestion and PM.

So sad.

Okay, it was actually a stop LIGHT... and she didn't "run" it, if the story is to be believed: she STOPPED for it, there was nobody else around (being 5am), so she went ahead without waiting for the green. REALLY not the same thing, and REALLY not a big deal. For all we know, they could have been sitting waiting for ten minutes without the light changing - who here HASN'T gone ahead if a signal isn't working properly and the road is clear?

If you're going to get bent out of shape about something, at least get bent about the right story.

And not to keep dragging politics into this thread, but as slimy as I think Dix is, at least I gotta give him props for not jumping all over this:
Meanwhile, back on topic: all the witness accounts so far are that the white minivan in this instance was going EXTREMELY fast, and probably didn't even slow down when approaching the red. So yeah, really no relevance between the two stories.

Not surprised; I was looking at the pictures, and daaaaamn, was that a rough impact. The only other time I've seen any car get disintegrated like that was when some kids lost control of a Fiat @ 200ish km/h; I doubt that van can even reach those speeds, but who knows? Is that part of 32nd downhill?

im around that intersection the majority of the week, it is a very high speed intersection, 176 is easily a 120km/h road, especially coming down the hill northbound, and 32 is also a pretty smooth road with not much traffic, it was really just a matter of time before this happened.

always sucks so hear a story about this, can really open your eyes to how quick bad judgment can go wrong. RIP

dude man, relax. i was half asleep when i wrote that....stop sign...red light...as i was typing it i felt it was wrong but didn't care enough to edit it. regardless, she broke the law and when you are running attack ads going after someone else who broke the law you damn well better make sure you're a fucking saint.

as i said, when i saw the story yesterday morning, i thought it was a big deal as her "aloofness" to the situation was sickening.

stand down, mate.




Aaaaaaaaand, back on topic.

It is always so sad when you hear the names of these victim. It makes it that more personal when you hear and think about their life. Such a loss :(