E46 reliability/upkeep question

[bcrdukes]

Having owned both Japanese and German cars (currently BMW) you have to keep up and stay on top of maintenance on German cars. They're just not the same as Japanese cars where you can get away without having to do something at a set interval.

And as "refined" as I find BMWs (or Euros in general) it's the stupid little things that go wrong make me think "Why did I buy this POS!?" Then again, I still like my M3. The E91 - not so much.

The example of the MKII VW hitting 500,000km - everybody says that but how much stupid shit went wrong along the way? On a Civic or Corolla? What, a window regulator went bad and it probably needed new shocks and an oil change here and there and still managed to squeeze 500,00km on the same motor before the rebuild? *Shrug* My E91 - what a piece of shit. CEL or some warning comes on every fucking time I start the car. But is anything really broken? No. So for fuck sakes BMW, throw me a bone. I'm a very particular owner for all things mechanical so when my CEL shows me that my tail light is out (but really, it's not) it drives me crazy. I can't accept this nor can I shrug it off. My E36 isn't the same. Things just work as-is.

I'm not trying to deter you from getting a BMW or trash talk Euro cars but if you are coming from an FX35 to a 2000 BMW 323/325i, you must be prepared to accept the reality that things will go wrong during your ownership. Not if, but when and being prepared to accept this for what it is. Some people can't accept this as part of Euro ownership and vow to never buy Euro ever again.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Having owned both Japanese and German cars (currently BMW) you have to keep up and stay on top of maintenance on German cars. They're just not the same as Japanese cars where you can get away without having to do something at a set interval.

And as "refined" as I find BMWs (or Euros in general) it's the stupid little things that go wrong make me think "Why did I buy this POS!?" Then again, I still like my M3. The E91 - not so much.

The example of the MKII VW hitting 500,000km - everybody says that but how much stupid shit went wrong along the way? On a Civic or Corolla? What, a window regulator went bad and it probably needed new shocks and an oil change here and there and still managed to squeeze 500,00km on the same motor before the rebuild? *Shrug*

Exactly.

I think it's more about how forgiving the car is.

On a Civic, you hear a weird noise, you can still get away with driving it for X amount of time, and then finally take it to a shop for a $300 fix.

On a German, I imagine, if you hear a weird noise and don't immediately beeline it to the shop, A, B, and C will go wrong within hours, and by the time you get to the shop, you've racked up a $2000 bill.

The "stupid shit" you brought up is exactly what's going on with my friend's A4. I think every electrical problem that could go wrong, did. Mechanically, Audi addressed the timing belt issues by throwing in a timing chain on the B6, but because of that, the timing chain guides are known to break.

So far it seems like the E46 is relatively okay. And of the common issues, I'm pretty confident I can do the fixes myself.

I'm still a little uneasy about making the jump, but god damn, it's SO SHEXSHY.

Totally feels like deciding whether or not I want to date a high maintenance Vancouver girl.

[bcrdukes]

E46 is fine overall. But...personally...I don't know about ones made in 2000. (That's just me.)

To put things into perspective, my coolant expansion tank cracked (previous owner used an OE equivilant, NOT OEM BMW). I was lucky to get away with replacing JUST THAT one part but typically, you would have to replace everything, such as thermostat, hoses, radiator end tanks and all sorts of stuff. Then again, BMW has NEVER managed to figure out what they're doing wrong with their cooling systems since the beginning of time. Might as well go back to fucking air cooled motors.

On a Toyota/Honda/Nissan etc. If one thing breaks, just that one part breaks. Not an entire system or family of parts.

Bonus: If you ever browse BMW parts vendors, you will notice that many of them sell "maintenance packages." You don't see that with many Japanese cars.

[68style]

I feel like you're waiting for someone to guarantee you that it's okay to go ahead and buy it and that you won't have significant problems. It's not going to happen, every car is different, I've known lots of people who had shitloads of problems with their E46's (and I worked at BMW at one point) and I know people who relentlessly beat on theirs and never have anything go wrong.

My advice is that if you feel like you're reaching for something, you're asking for it... you should feel 100% about what you buy not be afraid of stuff... like my buddy bought a Lotus Esprit V8 which has got to be one of the worst reliability cars ever, but he 100% knew that's what he wanted and accepted it was going to cost a bundle to upkeep but didn't care because he has always wanted one... the way you're talking right now I get the feeling it's going to be a situation where you buy it, and the first thing goes wrong you'll be like "DAMNIT I knew I shouldn't have done this!!!" and get all down about it.

[PJ]

^Not exactly, but good points.

I'm just simply wondering if any owners here have found them to be better than the word on the street, worse, or about right. So far, it seems like the latter.

I'm fully aware that this will not be as hassle-free as the Japanese cars, I'm just wondering to what extent. Like I said a couple posts ago, the worst I've ever had happen to any of my cars was a window motor dying on my G35, so I'm just trying to get some insights from local owners.

You're completely right that I'm still unsure. I stated that this is my first time stepping into the German arena, so it's a whole new world to me. But there's a strange romance to the uncertainty that makes it even more enticing.

Also, funny you bring up the Lotus. A friend of mine has an Elise, and it's always having issues, but he loves it.

I think I need to drive it again and stare at the car for a bit longer.

[dared3vil0]

You know what i've noticed with German vehicles vs Japanese/American? If something breaks on a US/Japan vehicle, "Hey that doesn't sound so good, this sucks, better get it into the shop within the next week." Something breaks on a German vehicle? "RING ING ING ING ING"

OBVIOUSLY shallow examples but you get the point.

[jmanhas]

I've owned an E46 M3 convertible, and the subframe on my car was slightly cracked but was welded and reinforced by Speed Syndicate so i could sleep at night. That was the only major repair that was done for my car. There are other little things to look out for when reaching a higher mileage, like spark plugs and engine misfires. Those are probably the most common issues. Misfires can be caused by a lot of shit on a BMW, and if you do decide to get one, definitely invest in a BMW Peake reader. Those tell you specific engine codes, not just a generic code from a OBD reader

Good luck!

[T4RAWR]

i look forward to updates on how ownership of the e46 is going if you buy it.

[Gerbs]

Whoops sorry accidentally hit send or smthi.gPosted via RS Mobile

[Cman333]

" But the reality is that BMWs are not cheap cars to run, neither in terms of fuel nor maintenance. And buyers looking for stellar reliability need not apply; BMW enthusiast website BimmerFest.com flat-out admits that BMWs are not as reliable as most Japanese makes and that if you buy one, you most likely will have problems with it.

Thankfully, the E46 appears to be one of BMW’s more reliable models in recent years. Consumer Reports gives it an “average” used car verdict, noting problems with power-operated accessories as the only consistent mechanical issues. Again, BimmerFest.com’s FAQ backs this up, noting that the E46 3 Series is “very sensitive to maintenance, or a lack thereof.” Well-documented problems include grouchy sunroofs; bad window regulators (the bits inside the doors that move the windows up and down); weatherstripping that likes to fall out of place (an easy fix); suspension control arm bushings that need replacing at as early as 60,000 km; and BMW issued a recall for engine ignition coilpack failures. The BimmerFest FAQ also lists a couple of other items covered by technical service bulletins.


Now, I said above that there are no serious mechanical flaws with the E46, and that’s true. But there is a potentially serious problem with the car’s rear suspension, wherein the rear subframe – to which the rear suspension and differential are fastened – can separate from the car’s body"

Used Vehicle Review: BMW 3 Series, 1999-2005 - Autos.ca

[Cman333]

Originally Posted by PJ

I always thought Benz was the most reliable out of the 3. Their aesthetics just don't appeal to me at all.

O hellz nooooooooo

In my own personal experience of dealing with them, owning them and having many friends/fam with them. BMW>BENZ>AUDI for reliability IMO.

They're all great cars, just more expensive to maintain and have alot of little electrical issues over time (which they all will if they're 10+ years old). Just more issues that cost more to fix.

Before buying a used car of any sort should always do your research.


That being said, the e46 was one of my most favourite overall cars in terms of driving factor. The car just feels more solid, the steering more precise, the sound of the I6 engine, the exhaust note, and the pretty looks. Just imagine it being a high maintenance gf. If you're a sucker for looks then doom is imminent. If you're a more practical type of person. Go Jap. (again some jap cars have their flaws, so do research)

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Cman333

Just imagine it being a high maintenance gf. If you're a sucker for looks then doom is imminent. If you're a more practical type of person. Go Jap. (again some jap cars have their flaws, so do research)

Love that line.

And that's the problem. I'm one for looks AND (somewhat) practicality, which is why my Infinitis served me well.

But now I'm stepping dangerously close to the BMW world, and this is a whole other ball game.

God damn, it's just so pretty.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by jmanhas

I've owned an E46 M3 convertible, and the subframe on my car was slightly cracked but was welded and reinforced by Speed Syndicate so i could sleep at night.

This is probably the most expensive thing to fix you'll run into on a bimmer. I had to get mine reinforced around 100k kms

I've owned a E46 coupe for about almost 3 years now. I don't regret any second of it. Maintenance hasn't been bad at all, however my car is mostly stock though. I was skeptical like you at first, so I bought a car with really low milage for the year (86k for an '02). Inspection I and II were already done. Service records since the day it was bought. Sounds like you got all that info, lift up the car at a shop, check it out, and if everythings good to go, buy it!

[Tapioca]

If you want more of a purists car, then why not a late-model E36, such as a 1997-98 328is?

Sure, the E36 looks like shit inside (the all-black interiors are probably the best out of a bad bunch), but they are more nimble than the E46. They don't have as many sensors as the E46 and aside from the cooling systems (which you need to replace every 100K), they are quite reliable.

[Kidnapman]

^^^ +1000. An E36 imo beats the E46 in almost every way. I wouldn't say the E36 interior looks like shit tho... relative to the E46 which isn't much better. Steering in the two cars feel pretty similar but the E36's is a bit more heavier and connected. If I could I would totally trade my car for an E36 coupe or hatchback. Just my 0.02 cents.

[bcrdukes]

I'd rather have a late model E36 than a first model year E46.

Late model E46 however -

[?uestlove]

european cars are like that smoking hot chick you're sleeping with that's got daddy issues and stupid friends you can't stand and she always wants to go to nice places and shit. and really fucking good in bed.

japanese cars are the cool chicks that got your back, pretty ok looking and alright in bed. it's be decent pooning all the time every time

[BrRsn]

It's not so bad ... until you start adding aftermarket parts. If you're a smart dude who knows how to use a computer, you can find a lot of the parts for half or even a third of the price online versus buying locally.

If i had to do it all again, I probably would avoid doing all the aftermarket tuning because it just turns into a giant headache

Buy a decent socket set w/ torx heads, a top side oil changer (change your oil through the dipstick at home, and get a full oil change done every 2-3 oil changes), a bluetooth OBD2 adaptor and sign up on e46fanatics. It's not that hard to keep a decently running e46 -- then again I've had one parked since february

[bcrdukes]

BMWs turns to shit once you mod it. No joke.

[BrRsn]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

BMWs turns to shit once you mod it. No joke.

But ... that raspy metallic exhaust note of headers

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Juwlzx

^^^ +1000. An E36 imo beats the E46 in almost every way. I wouldn't say the E36 interior looks like shit tho... relative to the E46 which isn't much better. Steering in the two cars feel pretty similar but the E36's is a bit more heavier and connected. If I could I would totally trade my car for an E36 coupe or hatchback. Just my 0.02 cents.

Until BMW used all-black interiors in E36s, the two-toned interiors didn't age well.

The early E46 (pre-2001) had steering racks that were very close in weight and feel to the E36. However, you do feel more connected in an E36. If you're going to do an E36, you either get a 1992 325 (no Vanos, and LSD instead of traction control, and an absolutely bulletproof drivetrain), or you spring for a late 328 with a stick shift.

[PJ]

If anyone's still wondering, I decided to pass.

Not so much because of the money, but because of the constant attention it requires. As much as I love the looks, I feel I would constantly be paranoid every time I start the car. And I have enough on my plate right now; don't need a finnicky car to be added onto that.

I think Lexus and Infiniti are more geared towards my lifestyle. At least, for now.

Thanks for all the replies, and please do keep the conversation going. I did learn a few things, and I'm sure it's of interest to more people than just me

[T4RAWR]

Aw man, I was hoping you were going to buy it

[dink]

my e46 just experienced:
cracked expansion tank
bad oil level sensor
washer fluid pump failure

all within the last 3 months. one after another. lol

[BrRsn]

^annoying thing is, that's "normal" lol

What's your mileage at? I have a bad coolant level sensor but to replace it everything needs to be drained so I'm leaving it as it is