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Old 06-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #51
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Anyone else getting the Nexus 4 for free when signing 2 yr contract with fido now?
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #52
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Ridiculous compared to where? People in Canada always think US has these super cheap plans when it really isn't the case. In the US T-Mobile's plans start at $50/mo itself with 500MB data. $60 for 2GB data. Similarly, AT&T starts at $60 for 300 MB.

As for Asia, it would be financially improbable to have those kinds of rates here considering the population density for the land area Asian countries have to cover vs Canada.
Yep I've always thought this and never understood why people say cell phone plans in the US are cheaper. Maybe the only thing they have on us is free LD across the US but otherwise their plans are just as expensive.


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I work in the cellphone industry, and it makes no difference whether it's 3 years or 2 infact it's probably better for most people on a 3 year. People are often afraid of contracts...but really it's just a finance of the device. Meaning the if the phone is worth 500 you just divide that into 36 months. And if someone wants to upgrade just pay out the device balance aka pay out the rest for your phone...I mean honestly I rather "finance" my phone than pay 300-400 for a new phone up front but maybe thats just me.
Unless you're jumping from carrier to carrier like a little bitch a contract shouldn't matter if you don't plan on leaving the country in the next few years. Might as well get the credit towards a new phone.
I have a pretty sick plan myself that's under $25 a month and I still sign up for 3 year contracts to get the $250 HUP + $50 loyalty credit towards a new phone. In fact, my 3 yr contract is ending in a couple weeks and I plan on re-signing.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:44 PM   #53
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I would actually prefer three year contracts to two years contracts because if you can negotiate a good retentions plan, your credits are good for 36 months versus 24 months - in which you would have to call back and negotiate again.
I don't think that will be that big of an issue....
I don't think it'll be hard to at the very least match your old plan.

Those guys are always trying to convince me to pay extra $$$ to get more.
Then I just use my "Slurpee" analogy, where if I'm satisfied with a Small slurpee,
why the hell would I pay MORE for a medium size, even if it's only 25cents more.

Then they shut up and just give me the same plan with the same price, which is what I wanted.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #54
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One of the things that kind of bothers and frustrates me about cellphone stuff here is the fact that pay as you go gets you nickled and dimed like a mofo.

Now, I'm about to make a comparison to an Asian market. Yes, I'm aware that the market dynamics are completely different. Yes, I'm aware that market penetration and infrastructure spending/dynamics are completely different there, but bear with me.

When I was in Korea, I had a cellphone plan that cost me six thousand KRW (about $5) a month. This was the basic monthly fee that I would pay regardless of use. For ever text I sent, I would pay 10KRW (that's literally less than a cent), and for every minute I would call, it was 15KRW (just over a cent). This was back in the days before the iPhone had been released there and smartphones weren't really a big thing so I can't judge there.

And from the side of the providers I completely understand why they don't use this system: there is no way to predict the income they'd earn over a given time (which is one of the big things that they use for projections in order to drive stock prices--another debate for another time), and by giving people a certain amount that they can use "for free", it drives people to use as much as possible in order to "get the most value for their money", often driving them over the limits and getting them overage charges.


Still. It would be nice to have the flat-rate + reasonable usage rates deal. I used to be with Rogers (switched to Wind), and I send maybe...what, 100 texts a month? And call less than ten minutes a month. It would be nice to be able to have a bit of flexibility.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:08 PM   #55
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I don't think that will be that big of an issue....
I don't think it'll be hard to at the very least match your old plan.

Those guys are always trying to convince me to pay extra $$$ to get more.
Then I just use my "Slurpee" analogy, where if I'm satisfied with a Small slurpee,
why the hell would I pay MORE for a medium size, even if it's only 25cents more.

Then they shut up and just give me the same plan with the same price, which is what I wanted.
I agree with that analogy (more is not always better) but most (if not all) credits have a definite end date and it's been evident Rogers will not always renew credits if you renew your contract (tons of instances on RFD).
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #56
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Translation: "I want the latest, greatest bling for the lowest price possible, so I'm just going to sign whatever they ask me to sign without bothering to read the fine print or even the large print... oh look, my new toy!"

- 6 months later -

"Damn, something newer... I WANT IT! Wait, what do you mean it'll cost me? Contract, what contract? THREE YEARS? THAT'S NOT FAIR, I'M BEING ROBBED! My wireless provider is evil for suckering me into this... yes, I see it's there in big bold letters, but I didn't have time to read all that! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! Oh wise and powerful CRTC, please protect me from my own impulses by forcing the big bad telcos to tie their own hands!"

Here's the really retarded thing - I mean, this is going FULL RETARD - about everyone whining about three-year contracts: THAT'S NOT THE ONLY OPTION. NEVER HAS BEEN. I don't know about others, but Telus has offered the options of one, two, or three-year contracts, or NO contracts, for at least a decade. BUT, of course, you have to pay more for the phone... and everyone wants it for free, so they go for the three-year deal. Yet somehow this is the provider's fault??

You know what will be next, right? Car financing. Used to be you couldn't finance more than 36 months... then it was 48... 60... now 72 or even up to 96 months. "Wow, you mean I can get that brand new QX56 for only $200 every two weeks? Sign me up!" - four years later - "Wow, this car is so OLD, I want something new... hey, what do you mean I still have to pay for this for another four years?! I don't want it anymore! Oh great and powerful government, you must do something about this!"
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #57
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Blah, this changes nothing. Rogers already have 2 year contract except the discount you get for your hardware is not that great.

They also have FlexTab which gives you the option to pay off the hardware and avoid early cancellation fee.

Now I would like to see them lower cellphone pricing plans. I honestly don't believe 6GB of bandwidth should cost $30.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:26 PM   #58
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I work in the cellphone industry, and it makes no difference whether it's 3 years or 2 infact it's probably better for most people on a 3 year. People are often afraid of contracts...but really it's just a finance of the device. Meaning the if the phone is worth 500 you just divide that into 36 months. And if someone wants to upgrade just pay out the device balance aka pay out the rest for your phone...I mean honestly I rather "finance" my phone than pay 300-400 for a new phone up front but maybe thats just me.
Currently many flagship phones are on 3 year contracts or be stupid expensive. I would rather pay more up front to get a 2 year contract which isn't an option on several carriers. I recently switched to Fido for that reason because they carry nice phones on 2 year contracts.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:44 PM   #59
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^^ +1 trying getting an iphone from fido on a 2year contract, they don't even have that LOL. You have to be on thier 3 year plan and pay more every month for the same package that someone who sign for a 2year contract.

But I do like the part where providers have to unlock the phone for you earlier rather than at the end of your 3year term.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:53 PM   #60
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50 dollar data cap?

Fido basic plan = 15/mo + 50 unlimited data = 65/mo.

65 for unlimited on LTE's 40mbps down/20mbps up?


Brb cancelling shaw.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:10 PM   #61
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We've really got to stop the trend, from a waste persepctive of unimagined magnitude of having a world's population saying their phone is obsolete after 2 years.

Or we need to up the recycle-ability to notches unknown.

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #62
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I don't understand the anger against three year contracts. If you don't want a contract to last that long, sign up for a shorter term. If you want a new phone after a year and a half, go out and buy one. Cellphone companies aren't obligated to offer subsidized pricing on them anyway. It's not that hard of a concept.

Maybe this is the start of a new trend. I'll take out a 25 year closed mortgage on a house and cancel after 15 years, and only have to pay off the principal and not the interest.

...yeah, no.

So why do people feel like they're allowed to get angry at cell phone companies for these "long" contracts?
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:25 PM   #63
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I think one of the issues that people was having with the 3-year contracts is the stilted nature of them.

I remember doing some smartphone shopping awhile ago and finding something like so:
$650 smartphone
3-year contract, pay $50
2-year contract, pay $450
1-year contract, pay $550

People would be less upset if they weren't so loaded and built against the consumer. "Just sign a shorter contract" and essentially lose hundreds of dollars of discounts on the phone, while gaining nothing on the back end of the payments for the duration.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:38 PM   #64
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I'm largely a noob in the area of cell phones and I'm not sure what my next move should be.

I had a cell phone until 2004 and then chose not to own one up until almost 2 years ago when land lines on Bowen Island were less reliable due to storms etc.

I went with Koodo and an LG Optimus on a tab because I liked the idea of no contract. My tab is mostly paid off and now I have a much better idea of what I want in a smart phone and what kind of services to expect.

With this new ruling, is it a good idea in terms of initial cost and long term payment to invest in a new phone/plan now or wait until after the changed take affect in December?

I want one of the better performing phones on the market and will take a contract if I must. I've lived without data thus far and have found free wifi is pretfy common so I'm not sure if I want much data but it could be handy in an emergency.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:48 PM   #65
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^^ +1 trying getting an iphone from fido on a 2year contract, they don't even have that LOL. You have to be on thier 3 year plan and pay more every month for the same package that someone who sign for a 2year contract.

But I do like the part where providers have to unlock the phone for you earlier rather than at the end of your 3year term.
Not sure if you mean iphone5 but my wife recently signed a 2 year with Telus and got a free 8 gb iphone4 on a basicplan no data. I thought that was pretty good
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:58 PM   #66
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We've really got to stop the trend, from a waste persepctive of unimagined magnitude of having a world's population saying their phone is obsolete after 2 years.

Or we need to up the recycle-ability to notches unknown.

Exactly.

I bought my first phone in 2006 after high school when I could afford it. I outright purchased a SE w810i and used it on monthly plans until last summer when I upgraded. That phone lasted me for 6 years. Phones have changed and so have data plans but I still know people rocking 5+ year old laptops. So, why change phones so frequently?

Maybe it's all a marketing thing that everyone gets a new phone after 2 years because that's when their contract allows them. Why not just buy and draw the life out as long as you can?

Are you only getting a new computer with a contract renewal for your internet?
Only getting a new car when yearly insurance comes up?
Buying a new house every time its comes to resign your mortgage?

It doesn't make any sense for those things but it does for cell phones?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:59 PM   #67
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Because new and better cell phones come out every year. They're faster, have better cameras and look nicer. My favorite feature of my smartphone is the camera and you still see significant improvements after 2-3 years.

It also sucks if you damage your phone or have certain things break after a while (ahem faulty iPhone home button). You can DIY or get a store to fix it but hey if your contact is up get a new phone!

If I can afford a new computer or a new car everytime it's up for renewal I would probably upgrade. But I can't. Getting a new 100 dollar smartphone every renewal is affordable and I keep all my old phones so it'll never go to a landfill
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:20 AM   #68
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Exactly.

I bought my first phone in 2006 after high school when I could afford it. I outright purchased a SE w810i and used it on monthly plans until last summer when I upgraded. That phone lasted me for 6 years. Phones have changed and so have data plans but I still know people rocking 5+ year old laptops. So, why change phones so frequently?

Maybe it's all a marketing thing that everyone gets a new phone after 2 years because that's when their contract allows them. Why not just buy and draw the life out as long as you can?

Are you only getting a new computer with a contract renewal for your internet?
Only getting a new car when yearly insurance comes up?
Buying a new house every time its comes to resign your mortgage?

It doesn't make any sense for those things but it does for cell phones?
If an ISP can subsidize 75% of a gaming computer or a bank can subsidize a huge chunk of a spanking new car, yeah man you bet. Housing example doesn't work because houses can go up in value.

As already mentioned, phones are advancing really quick, even way faster than a computer. Also, the average joe will load up their phone with apps, and it'll eventually slows down with memory leak etc. Forcing people to upgrade because the lag eventually becomes unbearable. It also doesn't help companies like Apple deliberately handicap/drop support of their products within a year or two; want Siri and panoraomic photo mode, screw your iPhone 4 that's still a decent device and buy our latest shiny 4S. Not to mention a lot of people regardless of age is spending more and more time on their phone each day, what's $99 every 3 years if you're renewing a contract anyways?


Regarding the photo, that mountain of phones still barely add up to a car when it goes to the scrap yard.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:47 AM   #69
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Not sure if you mean iphone5 but my wife recently signed a 2 year with Telus and got a free 8 gb iphone4 on a basicplan no data. I thought that was pretty good
There's a lot of these deals around right now, it's just a matter of where you look.

Razr HD on Fido, 2yr Smart plan for $0
HTC One X on Rogers/Telus, 2yr no minimum no data requirement for $0
Sony Xperia T on Rogers/Bell, 2yr for $0 (Rogers no min., Bell $43 or $63 promo plan)

All top-tier phones from last year, by all means still great handsets today.

If you're looking for a good phone with no data commitment, gimme a pm, I work for The Mobile Shop. From what I hear, Best Buy/Future Shop won't normally push 2yr phones with no data because there's no money for them on 2yr voice only acts. I don't know if Glentel does but from what I hear about their sales practices, they're also really pushy with highband 3yr.

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Exactly.

I bought my first phone in 2006 after high school when I could afford it. I outright purchased a SE w810i and used it on monthly plans until last summer when I upgraded. That phone lasted me for 6 years. Phones have changed and so have data plans but I still know people rocking 5+ year old laptops. So, why change phones so frequently?

Maybe it's all a marketing thing that everyone gets a new phone after 2 years because that's when their contract allows them. Why not just buy and draw the life out as long as you can?

Are you only getting a new computer with a contract renewal for your internet?
Only getting a new car when yearly insurance comes up?
Buying a new house every time its comes to resign your mortgage?

It doesn't make any sense for those things but it does for cell phones?

First of all, the rate at which technology changes is insane, over 4 years or so we went from single-core, qvga, 5mp, to octa-core, 1080p, 13mp smartphones. It would be silly to look at a phone three years old and say it still has the same value -- not just because of the hardware specs but also because since the release of modern smartphones, how we use these devices has changed dramatically as well. The way you drive your car, or live in your home, probably won't undergo such a huge change over the same 3 year period, unless you have children or something. Computer technology is also improving at a rapid rate so that's a better comparison but now we're looking at tablets and touchscreen laptops rapidly replacing desktops for regular home usage for a lot of people, and a lot of that is driven by technology that became mainstream in cell phones.

With regards to people rocking old laptops, it's similar to your cell phone upgrade in that there are still people who hold on to old technology and feel no need to upgrade. That's absolutely fine -- that just means that for what you do on the computer or phone, your needs are all filled, and you can continue using your old gear. However, increasingly, I see several things in the mobile industry, and this can also apply to computers as well:

A) People find features that they want on their devices that their old technology cannot do, or does it poorly. Maybe the software is too demanding and requires more powerful hardware. Maybe these new features were not conceived at the time of purchasing the old hardware and thus said hardware does not support it or does not have the necessary features to fully implement it. Maybe the older hardware didn't implement these features very well and is unpleasant to use. In this case, it is appropriate to say the device is obsolete and is worth replacing.

B) People didn't purchase adequate hardware or services initially. Whether it was due to limited budget, ignorance/stubbornness (go hand in hand I find), hesitance to commit (term, data, cancellation fees, overages, poor credit are all common objections), or even poor advice from a third party like a salesperson, it doesn't matter; this usually means that the hardware purchased was likely obsolete or close to obsolete at time of purchase, or at the very least didn't meet the customer's needs, leading to them wanting to replace the handset. In this case, I feel that the device in question was the wrong device for the customer. (I often tell customers that regardless of the outcome, it was probably worthwhile because at least now they are wiser and know a lot more about what they want or need in a phone/plan/term/etc., and have more wisdom when it comes to upgrading.)

C) People have defective or broken hardware. Defective, nobody can really escape that and is not the fault of the consumer, simply bad luck getting the one in a thousand faulty device. (Note that user ignorance and stubbornness would be covered by B probably, because some faults in the device are simply caused by user error or ignorance.) Broken devices are also in large part luck, and in some part stupidity. In this case the customer probably needs a new phone fast because their old hardware is busted and they didn't invest in protecting their most-used device. Like skipping regular maintenance on a car.

What I'm getting at is that most of the customers I deal with mostly fall in these three categories. The fourth would be D) Techies who enjoy playing with new technology. The fifth would be E) Sheep that come looking for the new Galaxy or iPhone because they just want the newest shiniest thing.

Rarely ever do I get the D's and E's. Most people just wear down their phones (construction workers and kids) and become C, or are hesitant to adopt new tech because of B, or are just waiting for term end because of A. People aren't buying phones every two years just because of marketing alone. If so, then people would be buying EVERY YEAR just to replace their now-obsolete Galaxies and iPhones. The truth is that there are several different factors that make upgrading possible, if not necessary, around the two-year mark. I find that people generally do want to extend the use of their handsets, and actually become very emotionally attached to them (yes, marketing is a factor in this but actually having a device that's pleasant to use and enriches or improves their life in some way is an even bigger factor, imo). Planned obsolescence is a thing, it's natural with mass production and the rate at which the technology improves, and I accept that. The system allows customers to resign for a new phone after the term is finished or paying the early cancellation fees, and my job is helping them find out what their needs and wants are, and navigating them through a complicated industry to get them the best solution for them.

Whether it's broken or inadequate or obsolete it matters not; these are devices that people rely and depend on. When it comes down to it, people get new phones because their old phones aren't working out for them anymore and the tech and wireless industry are evolving in such a fast rate that by the time something happens to the phone, it's not only easier and more cost-effective to get new and resign than repair, but will often result in a significant upgrade in hardware as well. The same cannot be said for real estate or automotives.

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I'm largely a noob in the area of cell phones and I'm not sure what my next move should be.

I had a cell phone until 2004 and then chose not to own one up until almost 2 years ago when land lines on Bowen Island were less reliable due to storms etc.

I went with Koodo and an LG Optimus on a tab because I liked the idea of no contract. My tab is mostly paid off and now I have a much better idea of what I want in a smart phone and what kind of services to expect.

With this new ruling, is it a good idea in terms of initial cost and long term payment to invest in a new phone/plan now or wait until after the changed take affect in December?

I want one of the better performing phones on the market and will take a contract if I must. I've lived without data thus far and have found free wifi is pretfy common so I'm not sure if I want much data but it could be handy in an emergency.
To answer your question, it depends.

A lot of great phones are already available on 24 month terms for $0, with minimal or no commitment.

The newer phones as of now require 36 month term with data. These would be the HTC One, Xperia ZL, Galaxy S4, Note II, S III, Optimus G, Blackberry Q10, Z10, to name several of them.

The current 36 and 24 month terms right now have cancellation fees largely based on how much you saved on the phone. I.E. I bought a $600 phone over 36 month term, for $0. If I cancel the next day after activation, I would owe the $600 for the phone plus whatever deactivation fees (Telus $50 early cancellation fee, Rogers/Fido $12.50 service deactivation fee, Bell/Virgin/Koodo nothing extra). With 24 months remaining, I'd owe $400 (2/3rds of the cost of the phone for still owing them 2/3rds of the term), etc. Just providing this info because it may very well be worth getting the phone now if the best solution is available with a 24 month "tab" already, as opposed to waiting. The plans are pretty attractive right now for people looking to get basic usage or light data without a big monthly spend.

I would ask you the following questions:
a) Which phone do you want?
b) Why do you want that phone?
c) What are the features you consider necessary in your next phone?
d) What are the good and bad things about your Optimus? What do you like and dislike?
e) Do you like Koodo? Are they giving you good customer service, good reception, a good price plan?
f) How do you use the phone? How would you like to use your new phone? Minutes, texting, data usage, long distance, roaming across Canada/international, etc.
g) How much are you paying right now? Are you paying too much? Do you need more than what you're currently getting and require an upgrade? Do you go over your plan?

I'd ask a lot of other questions based on your replies as well, but it really comes down to talking about you and helping you figure out what you need, and THEN we look at what will fill those needs. Since you mentioned you're new to cell phones, I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and help you find the best solution for your needs. Again, I DO work at a multi-carrier store, and figuring out what's best for you isn't always easy considering how complicated the Wireless market is, and my job is to help guide you through your decisions and get the best solution possible.

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If an ISP can subsidize 75% of a gaming computer or a bank can subsidize a huge chunk of a spanking new car, yeah man you bet. Housing example doesn't work because houses can go up in value.

As already mentioned, phones are advancing really quick, even way faster than a computer. Also, the average joe will load up their phone with apps, and it'll eventually slows down with memory leak etc. Forcing people to upgrade because the lag eventually becomes unbearable. It also doesn't help companies like Apple deliberately handicap/drop support of their products within a year or two; want Siri and panoraomic photo mode, screw your iPhone 4 that's still a decent device and buy our latest shiny 4S. Not to mention a lot of people regardless of age is spending more and more time on their phone each day, what's $99 every 3 years if you're renewing a contract anyways?


Regarding the photo, that mountain of phones still barely add up to a car when it goes to the scrap yard.
True, planned obsolescence does make hanging onto a phone quite a bit more difficult, when companies drop support for older phones, or introduce features in new phones that are not available for older phones.

That said, I think the dual-core phones of last year have hit a stride when it comes to remaining usable after several years. ICS and JB on the SII, even. The difference between moving from 512MHz to 1GHz to 1.7GHz to dual core were fairly large performance upgrades, for example, but from dual core to quad core doesn't actually make a significantly huge impact on day-to-day usage. My old boss' SII running JB is still running smoothly and often feels smoother than other, newer phones, at times. I still believe that at the rate cell phones are evolving, it makes little sense for companies to continuously support two-year-old phones when a lot of their users have already moved on at that two-year mark (older devices with poor sales) or are just not able to handle any updates to begin with (entry level phones like Wildfire S that have crap hardware). That's why I still see SII variants on the market, because they have had such success selling it that they continue to support the device with updates, because the hardware was powerful enough that it can handle new updates, and even though it's older hardware, it's still more than good enough for people with less demanding needs. This is one of the reasons Samsung is really popular with tech-savvy people who want to make sure their device is still supported after a year or two (SII!).

(Side note, I wound up getting a Nexus 4 outright because the One X North American version had such poor custom rom development and support and lack of updates that I got fed up with it and chose the phone with guaranteed high adoption rate for developers. What better than a Nexus? It's parallel to people who want a phone that won't lose support or stop getting updates from the manufacturer. These dual-core phones are more than enough to handle the new software nowadays, but support for them is piss-poor if you choose the wrong make. More and more you will see people hanging on to dual-core and up devices, because the hardware is simply powerful enough for all of their needs and then some. Maybe hardware improvements will stagnate and we'll see less turnover, less likely chance of the hardware we purchase becoming obsolete in a year. The difference between 720p and 1080p, dual core and quad core, the impact is becoming less and less noticeable and new handsets are increasingly more dependent on software features and apps to show actual, impactful improvements...)

Anyways, it's 4AM and I wrote a fucking wall of text.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:42 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Geoc View Post
50 dollar data cap?

Fido basic plan = 15/mo + 50 unlimited data = 65/mo.

65 for unlimited on LTE's 40mbps down/20mbps up?


Brb cancelling shaw.
I dont see this on fido website...
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:57 PM   #71
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2. Cap on data roaming charges
A service provider must suspend national and international data roaming charges once they reach $100 within a single monthly billing cycle, unless the customer expressly consents to pay additional charges.

3. Cap on data overage charges
A service provider must suspend data overage charges once they reach $50 within a single monthly billing cycle, unless the customer expressly consents to pay additional charges.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:26 PM   #72
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^Telus already does this. Remember the story about the chick blogging from Egypt? Hit $100 or something, Telus shut her off, she called and bitched them out and told them to turn it back on, so they did... they she got home and starting whinging about the thousands of dollars she racked up and blaming it on Telus.

...and these are the sorts of self-centered idiots crying for these "bill of rights" things. Wait and see, everyone's gonna love this until people start finding new ways to fuck themselves again, and the whine and bitch that the rules don't go far enough.
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