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Old 06-12-2013, 09:19 AM   #51
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To those who have voted for the Liberals this past provincial election, I just want to take this opportunity to rub it in your face -- thank you for squandering my tax dollars.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #52
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To those who have voted for the Liberals this past provincial election, I just want to take this opportunity to rub it in your face -- thank you for squandering my tax dollars.
Haha...you are welcome.

In retrospect, we really should have gone for the fiscally conservative NDP.

Maybe we can leave partisan attacks out?
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #53
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Haha...you are welcome.

In retrospect, we really should have gone for the fiscally conservative NDP.

Maybe we can leave partisan attacks out?
Not saying the NDP are fiscally conservative or anything, but giving pay raises to their own staff while clamping down hard on salary adjustments for other public servants and unions is just extremely distasteful in my books. Back when Gordo and Carol James were still around, the BC MLA's have tried to quietly passed a bill that would give themselves hefty pay raises, and the public got so upset that the ensuing firestorm and blasting made them cancel the deal.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:42 PM   #54
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To those who have voted for the Liberals this past provincial election, I just want to take this opportunity to rub it in your face -- thank you for squandering my tax dollars.
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“Re-allocations from within, but the overall budget will be the same. Some of the positions are changes, the duties are changing, but the overall budget allocation will not change,” he insists. “The overall amount being spent on staff remains the same.”
It happens pretty much every time an election finishes. Besides, it's just like a company that's restructuring. Some positions get eliminated while others are expanded and those workers are paid extra for a bigger workload.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:36 AM   #55
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I'm not saying I agree with the raises themselves, but think about this hypothetically. If you busted your ass for your company and delivered results, wouldn't you expect some sort of payout for that? I'm sure most people here get bonuses all of the time for meeting or exceeding results. On the other hand, if you don't get what you deserve (and you know that your bring value to your company), wouldn't you leave? I know I would.

Remember, these people who work for the party are not public servants. They're answerable only to the politicians themselves.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #56
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I'm not saying I agree with the raises themselves, but think about this hypothetically. If you busted your ass for your company and delivered results, wouldn't you expect some sort of payout for that? I'm sure most people here get bonuses all of the time for meeting or exceeding results. On the other hand, if you don't get what you deserve (and you know that your bring value to your company), wouldn't you leave? I know I would.

Remember, these people who work for the party are not public servants. They're answerable only to the politicians themselves.
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The same courtesy is not being extended to our teachers, healthcare workers, etc., and these very people bust their a$$ day-in, day-out as well. Adding more insult to injury, the decision to not grant that courtesy came from the same Liberals top brass. So why should this courtesy be given to the Liberals staff?
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:58 PM   #57
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The same courtesy is not being extended to our teachers, healthcare workers, etc., and these very people bust their a$$ day-in, day-out as well. Adding more insult to injury, the decision to not grant that courtesy came from the same Liberals top brass. So why should this courtesy be given to the Liberals staff?
Public servant salaries are a separate issue. You pay one or two people a few thousand more a year, or do you pay thousands of nurses an extra 2% year? Which one is more costly for the taxpayer?

The Liberals could have easily offered their staffers a pay cut, but I'm sure many would have balked and left which would have required them to spend more money to look for qualified replacements. At the end of the day, if there's no more money being spent on the whole, that's all we can really ask for.

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Old 06-13-2013, 03:12 PM   #58
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Public servant salaries are a separate issue. You pay one or two people a few thousand more a year, or do you pay thousands of nurses an extra 2% year? Which one is more costly for the taxpayer?
Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. IMO, if the Liberals only authorized a 2% pay increase for university staff members over 4 years (I think it's something similar for BCTF and healthcare workers as well?), then that's how much their own party staff should have gotten.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #59
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Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. IMO, if the Liberals only authorized a 2% pay increase for university staff members over 4 years (I think it's something similar for BCTF and healthcare workers as well?), then that's how much their own party staff should have gotten.
Why is that? These people are essentially consultants, or contractors. When governments hire consultants, they don't pay them what the rank-and-file union workers get paid; they pay them what the prevailing market rate is. It's definitely debatable whether an advisor is worth 175K/year, but I don't know enough about the industry to know what the market is. I do know that it can be hard work and not everyone making 80K a year in their health authority desk job can do what they do.

Rank and file workers exchange salary for security, benefits, and work-life balance. Advisors who work for the government work at the pleasure of the government. They can be fired on a moment's notice if their advice is poorly received by the public.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:17 PM   #60
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From the news articles, I am not sure if those are more akin to consultants and contractors. But even if they are, shouldn't their original pay already reflect the going market rate when they were first hired? If there was a bonus to hand out following a successful campaign, that would have been written into the contract.

But the director of the Canadian Taxpayer Federation has really summed it up best:

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The organization is blasting the BC Liberals for recent staff pay raises. BC Director Jordan Bateman says it is hypocritical to come off a debt free election campaign and hand over salary hikes.

He can’t help being critical as he explains some key political insiders in other countries don’t make as much. “You’ve got to really scratch your head when both the chief of staff in British Columbia and the deputy chief of staff make more here than the chief of staff to Barack Obama makes. The United States government pays the Chief of Staff Jack Lew in the White House $175,000 a year. That salary would not be good enough for the current deputy chief.”

He says public sector unions may use this as ammunition when they’re in contract negotiations. “The BCGEU, CUPE, the nurses, the teachers, all of those groups are looking at this going ‘excellent.’ They’ve got the finance minister on record today saying that there was some money for raises, they’ll be sure to remind him of that when they’ll be negotiating, and this is going to be bad news for taxpayers down the road.”

With many people cynical of politics, he was hopeful the government would work with the public to restore faith but doesn’t feel the pay hikes do this.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #61
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Senate hires motivational speakers to make them feel better about themselves | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:56 AM   #62
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translation - they're actually hiring high class call girls
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:25 AM   #63
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From the news articles, I am not sure if those are more akin to consultants and contractors. But even if they are, shouldn't their original pay already reflect the going market rate when they were first hired? If there was a bonus to hand out following a successful campaign, that would have been written into the contract.

But the director of the Canadian Taxpayer Federation has really summed it up best:

Lets do some review, they don't give a total figure of how much money was given for these pay raises.
But assuming a 2% increase in salary was given to the nurses & BCTF, I can bet your ass the raises were less then giving BCTF/nurses a raise.
Assuming a nurse/teacher makes $50k/year, @ 2% thats an additional $1000/year. Lets say theres 500 nurses/BCTF, thats $500k. (500 is ridiculously low, lets not argue, its probably going to easily reach over a million in raises.)

Unions are bullshit. Whenever they feel "underpaid," they strike.

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Old 06-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #64
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^ How much do you make, melloman? Do you feel that you're being paid fairly for the work that you do? If you don't, what's stopping you from leaving your job and finding something that pays more, has more prestige, etc?

I don't believe in the political activities that unions engage in, but let me ask you this: what do you think nurses should be making? What do you think teachers should be making? In fact, what stopped you from being a teacher or health care professional if the salaries and lifestyles are so attractive?

For 50K/year, I would never become a teacher as it's a tough job.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:55 AM   #65
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I make $50k+. I'm paid fairly for the work and deadlines I'm given.
I'm not held to this position except for the fact that I'm still young in the industry and experience in Vancouver means everything in a job.

I believe everyone does deserve a raise, yet I can ask around how much other people make, who work in all types of fields, and how their pay is scaled and how raises are given.. And in the past/current economy, not alot of people are getting the raises "they deserve." I just don't agree that striking (or holding people ransom) to get what you want, is the right way to go about it.

I also concur, for $50k (standard teachers wage in BC is from $48k to $73k) I wouldn't become a teacher either.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #66
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Maybe they can hire Justin Trudeau, he'll speak when paid at least it's not a charity.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:29 PM   #67
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wow, CC reversed the raises.

Christy Clark cancels raises for political insiders

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VICTORIA -- Premier Christy Clark has backtracked on raises her government gave to political insiders immediately after the election, saying they enraged a public who elected her on the promise to control government spending.

"I think giving people raises didn't sit well with citizens. I certainly heard that over the last week," Clark told reporters Wednesday.

"I said during the election we're going to control spending, we're going to make government smaller if we can and that's going to mean tightening our belts. I don't think the raises struck the right note and I don't think it was consistent for people," she added.

"I take responsibility for it. I'm the premier and I'm fixing it."

Within minutes of Clark's announcement New Democratic Party leader Adrian Dix touted Clark's reversal as a victory for Carole Gordon, who is running against Clark in the Westside-Kelowna by-election

"I'm certainly going to be raising it as the first victory for Carole Gordon in the election campaign here in Westside-Kelowna," he said in an interview from Kelowna.

"We've been raising the issue a lot and I think people here were definitely saying how unacceptable it was for the Liberal Party to be increasing wheelchair fees while they raised their own salaries," he added.

The New Democrats were the ones who first made a public issue about the raises, which Dix has called "self-centred" and "out of touch".

"It obviously shows that the Liberal party, left to its own devices, is tone deaf," he said Wednesday.

"The decision as their first item to jack up the salaries of political staff just shows them to be out of touch. This is what they do when they're not held to account. That's why we pushed so hard to see it rolled back and made that politically necessary."

Approved by the outgoing cabinet, the raises had increased the top salaries for political aides to $105,000 from $94,500.

Clark's new cabinet lowered that top salary to $102,000 at its first meeting, just days before the controversy broke out in public.

On Wednesday, Clark said the maximum will return to $94,500, and most raises will be rescinded.

Clark has made one exception, she said, still allowing an increase for the position of her own deputy chief of staff.

Clark's government had raised the top allowable salary for that position to $230,000 from $144,000.

Using these new rules, Clark hired her assistant campaign director, Michele Cadario as deputy chief of staff at an annual salary of $195,148 - or a 35 per cent increase.

On Wednesday, Clark said Cadario will still get an increase from the previous person because she has taken on two jobs - that of the previous chief of staff and the previous director of policy.

But, Clark added, the increase will be reduced, meaning Cadario will now get $175,000 per year.

Dix called the move unacceptable.

"It's a dramatic increase and frankly that explanation (of doing two jobs) goes against common sense," he said.

"Of course these are important jobs. Of course these people work hard, and I respect that. But the idea that they're doing two jobs -- this is disrespectful of reality," he continued.

"The people who are doing two jobs are people who are seeing their wages go down, who have to do two jobs to support their kids. Those are the people the premier should be thinking about and not her political associates and friends."
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #68
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^ How much do you make, melloman? Do you feel that you're being paid fairly for the work that you do? If you don't, what's stopping you from leaving your job and finding something that pays more, has more prestige, etc?

I don't believe in the political activities that unions engage in, but let me ask you this: what do you think nurses should be making? What do you think teachers should be making? In fact, what stopped you from being a teacher or health care professional if the salaries and lifestyles are so attractive?

For 50K/year, I would never become a teacher as it's a tough job.
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I always say if you cant beat them, join em. There's nothing stopping people out there from getting government jobs or union jobs like nurses or teachers etc.

Before everyone gets on the union bashing, just remember the unions are the reason we have 40 day work weeks and weekends off as a standard for most jobs.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:47 PM   #69
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With unions it's always a many-coloured thing.

The teachers specifically have been bargaining hard because back in the late 90s they negotiated a contract that would give them smaller class sizes, more specialists (Learning Assistance, ESL, Special Needs) and they accepted a 0/0/0 pay increase (which means they lost about 5% over three years accounting for inflation). Then the government said "oops, we don't have that money", refused to provide what they'd offered, and shit has repeatedly hit the fan since.

Nurses were striking because the government wanted them to cut back on their pensions and didn't want to spend money on hiring new ones.

Paramedics went on strike for awhile because the government wasn't hiring new ones but making the existing ones do overtime, yet was insisting that the ones on-call be dressed and waiting next to a phone (can't even work another job unless you can literally run out the door) while making a fucking pittance.



There are lots of times when Unions are assholes and start shit--especially when it comes to employee discipline. There are other times when unions are necessary because the power structure of employment can often be an incredibly effective tool in beating down people who challenge your authority.

Funnily enough, I had a really good talk with some people who actually thought teachers should be making more money. As much as I am a huge fan of teachers, I would say more than anything else that they are overworked, not underpaid. Bring class sizes down below 28 (below 25 if possible); provide fulltime ESL at every school in BC (believe it or not, most schools don't have that); provide learning assistance and special needs for students who need it so that the teacher doesn't have to spend extra time dealing with temper tantrums or dumbing down the lesson. When you boil it down, all these people want to do is have people listen to them and what they see as the flaws in the system.

Yes, strikes are disruptive. Yes, strikes are frustrating. Yet what the government did in declaring teachers an essential service was literally illegal, and we were the only place in the world which had made that declaration. The disregard for the bargaining process in and of itself has been a huge disappointment. Criticize the teachers all you want for what they want, but don't leave the Government's part out of it.
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