Widespread Suspension of Capilano University Programs?

[Traum]

Affected Programs and Courses - Capilano University
2013-2014 Budget - Capilano University

Saw this on a friend's FB page, and I am very surprised by the sweeping changes and program cuts that are being made a CapU. That is a LOT of programs getting dumped, and I wonder what will become of the university afterwards...

[hongy]

Glad I left that stupid place.

[godwin]

Why would you be surprised? To move from a College to a University requires you to hire ALOT more PhD staff it takes a LONG time and A LOT of money. Just think College you can get by with staff with a Masters say 60k, a University level prof makes 120k starting. I think it is a waste of resources to start.. we need more vocational training like welders, millrights etc.. than BAs working at Starbucks. at least for the initial first training.

Universities like Thompson Rivers has the Alexworthy to fundraise.. but still ends up being the last in research last year... not surprising consider you can get hair dressing and butchering as a bachelors.

[MG1]

First thing I thought of when seeing title was, Capilano Suspension Bridge.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by godwin

Why would you be surprised? To move from a College to a University requires you to hire ALOT more PhD staff it takes a LONG time and A LOT of money. Just think College you can get by with staff with a Masters say 60k, a University level prof makes 120k starting. I think it is a waste of resources to start.. we need more vocational training like welders, millrights etc.. than BAs working at Starbucks. at least for the initial first training.

Universities like Thompson Rivers has the Alexworthy to fundraise.. but still ends up being the last in research last year... not surprising consider you can get hair dressing and butchering as a bachelors.

Salary isn't necessarily the most expensive thing, nor is the increase nearly as big as you suggest. Depending on the faculty salary grid is structured, there may or may not be a huge difference between faculty members with Masters and PhD's. Additionally, PhD's do not necessarily get paid a lot. I know for a fact that at some universities, their profs in certain faculties of arts could make as little as $60k.

[godwin]

Well salary will be a huge chunk because there will also be administration (need profs to handle that too), honestly Arts profs are not in demand.. then equipment and facilities.

The problem with Capilano basically there are no professional schools eg Med etc that they can get funders to name.

Originally Posted by Traum

Salary isn't necessarily the most expensive thing, nor is the increase nearly as big as you suggest. Depending on the faculty salary grid is structured, there may or may not be a huge difference between faculty members with Masters and PhD's. Additionally, PhD's do not necessarily get paid a lot. I know for a fact that at some universities, their profs in certain faculties of arts could make as little as $60k.

[Lomac]

I went to Capilano maaaany years ago.... I actually liked it. Good teachers (minus the one that got arrested a few years afterwards for child porn ), and fun classes. Don't miss driving that hill in the snow, though.

It seems like the majority of the classes being cancelled aren't exactly high profile anyway. Advanced ceramics? Fundamental grip work for film? Trust me, the latter is absolutely a course that never needed to be offered in the first place. I'm more surprised by things like Commerce and the Sciences being hit. You'd think they'd try to keep as many of those as possible and instead try to cut out some of the filler fundamental courses instead.

[bing]

Originally Posted by godwin

Why would you be surprised? To move from a College to a University requires you to hire ALOT more PhD staff it takes a LONG time and A LOT of money. Just think College you can get by with staff with a Masters say 60k, a University level prof makes 120k starting. I think it is a waste of resources to start.. we need more vocational training like welders, millrights etc.. than BAs working at Starbucks. at least for the initial first training.

Universities like Thompson Rivers has the Alexworthy to fundraise.. but still ends up being the last in research last year... not surprising consider you can get hair dressing and butchering as a bachelors.

It seems that depending on the faculty, the pay scales are different. Not sure what else factors into it.

For SFU arts, I have noticed that it seems to be around $80-90k for assistant profs, ~$100k for associate profs, and $125k+ for full professors. However, I noticed that in a popular faculty like business some profs are already at 125k+ at the associate level.

source: public sector salary database http://www.vancouversun.com/business...ies/basic.html

[bing]

Originally Posted by Traum

Salary isn't necessarily the most expensive thing, nor is the increase nearly as big as you suggest. Depending on the faculty salary grid is structured, there may or may not be a huge difference between faculty members with Masters and PhD's. Additionally, PhD's do not necessarily get paid a lot. I know for a fact that at some universities, their profs in certain faculties of arts could make as little as $60k.

As little as 60k?

They must be senior lecturers or sessional instructors on a contract basis teaching only a few courses max (i.e. 1-2).

[bing]

"The new designation has incurred costs," says Cowan: "Higher licensing costs and copyright license costs, administrative costs related to the senate structure versus the old ... structure, increased library resources, additional advising staff for degree courses, equipment costs for higher level courses, and development costs for new degree programs."

I think they should just have stayed as a college but promoted themselves differently. Not sure how much more the global appeal of being called a university has really helped their enrollment numbers.

[yogenfruz]

Originally Posted by Lomac

It seems like the majority of the classes being cancelled aren't exactly high profile anyway. Advanced ceramics? Fundamental grip work for film?

Those sound like episode names for Community.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by bing

As little as 60k?

They must be senior lecturers or sessional instructors on a contract basis teaching only a few courses max (i.e. 1-2).

Salary scales for post secondary institutions could really be all over the place. The $60k figure that I saw was for a history professor at a Canadian university (forgot which one, unfortunately). Sessional instructors have it even worse -- a lot of places only pay them ~$6k per course, and more often than not, they have no job security at all. They are definitely considered cheap labour for the universities and colleges.

Looking at the suspended programs at CapU again, there is certainly a number of niche / niche-like programs. At the same time, commerce, computing science, geology, German, and Kinesiology seem like they ought to be mainstream enough to survive. Cutting commerce out, in particular, is a really big surprise to me. I know it is a super popular program at UBC, and I wouldn't have expected it to not meet enrollment quotas.

I did some digging around, and came across the following article from May:

The Tyee ? Cuts at Capilano U: Is Worse to Come?

Interestingly, the news article is saying that the promotion to university status has ended up hurting CapU:

"The new designation has incurred costs," says Cowan: "Higher licensing costs and copyright license costs, administrative costs related to the senate structure versus the old ... structure, increased library resources, additional advising staff for degree courses, equipment costs for higher level courses, and development costs for new degree programs."

Sounds rather ironic that the higher profile ended up hurting the institution instead of helping.

[godwin]

Profs can be paid according to a pay scale from the university, but it is a well known fact that departments will also contribute from their own budget and or getting National Research Chair positions to attract high caliber professors. It is not unusual for profs to come give talks for possible employment as a bargain gambit to negotiate a better deal at other places.

Then there are the intangibles eg guaranteed employment of spouses.. which can be quite lucrative if you have a spouse that are employed at jobs like cardiology / orthopaedics that requires OR time. Lab.. oh and no need to teach just research.. remember University is for academics to RESEARCH not to teach.

I have said at the start it was a waste of resource.. they should have aimed to get a professional school first then decide to upgrade to a University.. at least they can have like so and so school of profession to sell.

Originally Posted by Traum

Salary scales for post secondary institutions could really be all over the place. The $60k figure that I saw was for a history professor at a Canadian university (forgot which one, unfortunately). Sessional instructors have it even worse -- a lot of places only pay them ~$6k per course, and more often than not, they have no job security at all. They are definitely considered cheap labour for the universities and colleges.

Looking at the suspended programs at CapU again, there is certainly a number of niche / niche-like programs. At the same time, commerce, computing science, geology, German, and Kinesiology seem like they ought to be mainstream enough to survive. Cutting commerce out, in particular, is a really big surprise to me. I know it is a super popular program at UBC, and I wouldn't have expected it to not meet enrollment quotas.

I did some digging around, and came across the following article from May:

The Tyee ? Cuts at Capilano U: Is Worse to Come?

Interestingly, the news article is saying that the promotion to university status has ended up hurting CapU:



Sounds rather ironic that the higher profile ended up hurting the institution instead of helping.