anyone feel university is massively overrated?

[dinosaur]

My university degree was a little different than most. I actually used my degree for the job I had and would not have had that job without the degree. That can't be said for most.

My degree: BA Archaeology from SFU
Job: Senior Archaeologist and Researcher for 7 years.

Its not the norm...

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Yc

it's overrated because it's too cheap. If you make university 10 times more expensive then it wouldn't be overrated, because only a few would able to go and those who went will surely value it more and get more out of it;

So only rich people should be able to partake in higher education. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is one of the most embarrassing things I've read on RS.
University has become overrated because its a business, that has lost a lot of interest of the future of its alumni. They pump thousands of people through a year for a degree where only 20 jobs will be offered with no responsibility of sharing the information of bleak employment prospects when new students are entering a program. How many education degrees do you think UBC handed out last year? And how many jobs are there to be had in that field? UBC knows, but I'm willing to bet the students didn't know. Is it their own fault? Maybe, but when they don't offer readily available information on the topic, when they have it to offer, thats poor business ethics.

[GLOW]

i think when you're young, you might have some misunderstandings of what to expect from a university education.

do i actually apply anything learned from course subjects to my job, no...could i still prove a differential equation to the 4th degree like i did in university - hellllll no....

i suppose university taught me to plan, think, network, figure out how to do 2 weeks worth of work in 1 week, etc....

bcit did not necessarilly teach me that. from bcit i learned a different set of skills. how not to blow shit up (by actually blowing shit up), how not to electricute myself, how to grind through a pile of work for a certain length of time...

i think what i would do for my kids that i wish someone did for me is explain what post secondary education is like and what to expect and see if it helps them achieve what they want in life.

[!LittleDragon]

No post secondary for me, I do fine. I knew what I wanted to do and how to do it back in high school. Graduated, got a job at Revenue Canada and ran with it. By the time my friends graduated with their fancy degrees, I already had the jump on them by a few hundred grand. Sure they'll eventually out earn me in salary but my money's had 15 years of compounding growth which I still contribute to. The day my dividends are enough to fund my life comfortably is the day I retire.

[hchang]

Yup totally overrated.

Have you wondered where the concept of post secondary came from? Because it sure didn't exist since the beginning of time. Research it, you'll be quite fascinated and realize how little you really know.

Not knocking on universities but the concept of getting a good education then getting a good job worked in our grandparents generation, and maybe our parents generation. But times have changed. Look at how much tuition fees have rose over the past decade. It's no longer about education it's about the universities milking as much money as they can out of the herd of sheep. Did you know that student loan debt is the biggest business out there and that student loan debts is the only debt you can't walk away from even if you declare bankruptcy?

Being Asian that was all that I heard growing up as well. "Get into a good school and get a good job" over and over and over again. But where does that take you? Brings you into a cubicle for 40-60 years of your life (if you're lucky and can find a job in the field you studied in) And now you're letting a boss or manager dictate what time you have to wake up to get to work what time you can have a coffee break what time you can eat lunch what time you can go home what kind of car you drive and when you can take your vacation.

You'll never meet anybody "rich" who has a job it's always a business owner or an owner of something that is rich. Post secondary teaches you to work for somebody rich, take orders, be submissive and not question authority. " Don't let school interfere with education." Think hard about that quote.

My piece of advice is to check the fruit on the tree before you take the advice. Whoever you guys are asking advice from make sure they have what you want first, just because a professor has a degree to teach business doesn't mean they are good in business themselves, otherwise why are they teaching? Would you trust a personal trainer who's fat? Would you ask your grandma for football advice? Would you trust a woodwork teacher who only has 9 fingers?

We've all been brainwashed, take a second to really think about it.
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[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by westopher

So only rich people should be able to partake in higher education. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is one of the most embarrassing things I've read on RS.
University has become overrated because its a business, that has lost a lot of interest of the future of its alumni. They pump thousands of people through a year for a degree where only 20 jobs will be offered with no responsibility of sharing the information of bleak employment prospects when new students are entering a program. How many education degrees do you think UBC handed out last year? And how many jobs are there to be had in that field? UBC knows, but I'm willing to bet the students didn't know. Is it their own fault? Maybe, but when they don't offer readily available information on the topic, when they have it to offer, thats poor business ethics.

Honestly, I both agree and disagree.

If you have a guy(or girl) from limited means taking out fat loan after fat loan to get a degree in a field that may or may not create the means to make the amount of those loans a non-factor in their lives then the loans can become a barrier to his life.

And realistically, that degree isn't overly rare.

Go back in time, and a university education was a rare thing. Elite families sent elite children to elite schools, and they in turn took their place among the elite.

Now we have universities in malls.

So I think the point to be made isn't so much specifically keeping lower classes out of education, but that like anything else supply and demand is the basic building block of the economy.

Masters and doctorates take the place of the bachelors degree in terms of rarity. Unfortunately, the masters itself now doesn't even reward a jump in salary or means to a better life(if you read and believe the stats)

The supply of people with bachelors is so great, that more people can demand them. More universities produce them. But it seems that less jobs actually require them. Sure, lots "require" them in terms of job listings, but not so much in terms of job functions.

The ability to sign up to cheap loans so easily to finance an education makes it easy for institutions to provide those educations. You have a ready, willing and able customer base loaded with free money.

And more and more diplomas and degrees are produced making them all the less rare in the marketplace.

So I don't think its the most embarrassing thing to be posted on RS(far fucking from it to be honest..like, srs...CiC perhaps?) but its the nature of the game.

[bing]

I got a joint degree (still one degree but you focus on two areas equally) to expand my employment opportunities and yes, they directly relate to my field of potential employment (criminology). Some job postings do favor these degrees. Although I will say if you have top marks in any discipline you can get into any professional program like law, doing a masters, etc.

I also feel that university was about learning and not necessarily to get a job so I still think the "investment" was worth it even if it was in liberal arts. There are certainly a lot of things I never would have been exposed to otherwise (writers like Foucault, Durkheim, Marx) and subjects (moral philosophy, business, econ, legal system). Ideas that I still have. Even if I forget most of the information, I still know where to find it and I can pick it up that much faster. I also have all my old papers to reflect upon. Also my writing has definitely improved (grammar, vocabulary, structure). I think the best part of school was it got me into a habit of reading and loving to read. That is something I will carry with me.

[SB7]

I think the most important thing about university is building confidence in yourself and learning how to deal with other people while making the right connections. Sure the degree itself may not be that important but it really is what you make of it.

University life isn't fair in many ways: Schools try to suck up as much money from you while offering little to basic services, your group partners don't do jack shit and you have to do extra work to compensate, it's hella expensive and if you're not paying for it term by term your student loan debt will be in the 10's of K's if not more by the time you graduate.

What you do learn is that life is never fair, and you have to really try hard to balance things out and develop your character as much as you can to stand a chance once you try and make something of your own life and break out of that bubble that so many people are trapped in. The rich and the elite know it is not really about their grades that will determine whether or not they are successful, but how well they can leverage and build on the connections they create during the time that they are studying.

I feel like while you're working on your degree, you should be focused outwards and constantly planning for the future, looking for opportunities in every meeting and conversation and knowing that LUCK is an extremely important factor that should never be underestimated. You create your own luck with with the attitude you bring to the table everyday, and without a positive one, things can turn out very hairy indeed.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by hchang

You'll never meet anybody "rich" who has a job it's always a business owner or an owner of something that is rich. Post secondary teaches you to work for somebody rich, take orders, be submissive and not question authority. " Don't let school interfere with education." Think hard about that quote.
Personally I took that knowledge to heart and never went to post secondary. I followed in some people's footsteps and sure I'm not "balling" yet but I'm only just about 21 and I'm doing much better financially than a lot of people I know who have already went to and graduated from post secondary.

We've all been brainwashed, take a second to really think about it.
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When I was 21, I thought I knew everything too. At the age of 31 now, I have a better understanding of how the world works.

There are movers and shakers and then there is the 90% who follow them. Some of the movers and shakers are naturally brilliant or extremely luucky as a result of having the right genes or taking big risks that paid off, but the majority if them probably had some post-secondary education at some point in their lives to get to where they are today.

The people who defy the law of averages are always the ones that speak up. You're 21 so it's too early to tell whether or not you're going to defy the odds. In my experience, all of the people I know who are ballers by most standards have some sort of post-secondary education.
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[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by bing

I got a joint degree (still one degree but you focus on two areas equally) to expand my employment opportunities and yes, they directly relate to my field of potential employment (criminology). Some job postings do favor these degrees. Although I will say if you have top marks in any discipline you can get into any professional program like law, masters, etc.

I also feel that university was about learning and not necessarily to get a job so I still think the "investment" was worth it even if it was in liberal arts. There are certainly a lot of things I never would have been exposed to otherwise (writers like Foucault, Durkheim, Marx) and subjects (moral philosophy, business, econ, legal system). Ideas that I still have. Even if I forget most of the information, I still know where to find it and I can pick it up that much faster. I also have all my old papers to reflect upon. Also my writing has definitely improved (grammar, vocabulary, structure). I think the best part of school was it got me into a habit of wanting to read and liking to read. That is something I will carry with me.

Yes, I can tell through conversation usually who went to school and who didn't and going to school certainly makes it easier to network. At my age that's usually the first things people talk about after meeting for the first time such as where you went to school.

you are sorting to see one of my main gripes with university - you are paying for something that you can easily learn with an internet connection. my degree is completely unrelated to criminology, and i have pretty extensive knowledge on pretty much all the topics that you mentioned, due to reading and watching things on my own time.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Sid Vicious

you are sorting to see one of my main gripes with university - you are paying for something that you can easily learn with an internet connection. my degree is completely unrelated to criminology, and i have pretty extensive knowledge on pretty much all the topics that you mentioned, due to reading and watching things on my own time.

And who are the people who write what you read in the first place? Who contributes to Wikipedia? More often than not, it's people with expertise in their field who at some point had a university education to supplement their knowledge and experience gained in their profession or field of study.
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[predom]

Originally Posted by hchang

Yup totally overrated.

Have you wondered where the concept of post secondary came from? Because it sure didn't exist since the beginning of time. Research it, you'll be quite fascinated and realize how little you really know.
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Wut.

A lot of things didn't exist in the beginning of time. Time did not exist in the beginning of time.

Solid highschool level reasoning.
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[Energy]

Originally Posted by Sid Vicious

you are sorting to see one of my main gripes with university - you are paying for something that you can easily learn with an internet connection. my degree is completely unrelated to criminology, and i have pretty extensive knowledge on pretty much all the topics that you mentioned, due to reading and watching things on my own time.

Yes, Suits and House are totally representative of what lawyers and doctors do on a daily basis

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Energy

Yes, Suits and House are totally representative of what lawyers and doctors do on a daily basis

uh...what? never watched any of those shows, ever

oh and @tapoica, traditionally universities were THE hubs of higher learning because it facilitated the discussion and dissemination of knowledge and ideas, but nowadays, all you really need is an ebsco pass or whatever and a couple of forum memberships for a similar experience.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Energy

Yes, Suits and House are totally representative of what lawyers and doctors do on a daily basis

You know, just last night I was thinking of just skipping some of the education and licensing requirements for something I want to do and just regurgitating it verbatim like rain man and faking it.

Are you telling me that is NOT going to work?

[hchang]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

When I was 21, I thought I knew everything too. At the age of 31 now, I have a better understanding of how the world works.

There are movers and shakers and then there is the 90% who follow them. Some of the movers and shakers are naturally brilliant or extremely luucky as a result of having the right genes or taking big risks that paid off, but the majority if them probably had some post-secondary education at some point in their lives to get to where they are today.

The people who defy the law of averages are always the ones that speak up. You're 21 so it's too early to tell whether or not you're going to defy the odds. In my experience, all of the people I know who are ballers by most standards have some sort of post-secondary education.
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Yeah bro absolutely I don't claim or imply I know everything in this world everything I said in above post. What I shared is what I've learnt so far and my experiences up to this day. Everything i know I learnt from people older than me who have what I want to have in life and have never steered me wrong.

Whether I defy the odds or not is somewhat out of my control all I can do is maintain a positive outlook on life.
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[hchang]

Originally Posted by predom

Wut.

A lot of things didn't exist in the beginning of time. Time did not exist in the beginning of time.

Solid highschool level reasoning.
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My point is look into who created the whole school system (in North America) and why it's in place.
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[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

You know, just last night I was thinking of just skipping some of the education and licensing requirements for something I want to do and just regurgitating it verbatim like rain man and faking it.

Are you telling me that is NOT going to work?

like i said, this post was framed towards undergrad degrees within the realms of social sciences/liberal art type degrees

masters, doctorates etc all legit...too bad there wasnt a way to skip undergrad and go straight to your masters

[MindBomber]

The university experience and its outcomes is not unilateral.

It's not proven itself overrated for myself, my brother, or my friends.

The investment of time and tuition has paid dividends of indefinable value through our personal growth.

The career and learning outcomes some here have cited are only one small component of a very broad picture.

We were and are passionate about university and thus embraced it, but not everyone is... and those people may not realize the positive outcomes from the experience we have....

so, to them the university experience may very well be overrated.

This is a question individuals need to ask themselves... not a question where a general consensus is viable.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol lets just say...

it's overrated for most people. because most people are idiots and even if you gave them a million dollars or hooked them up with an awesome job they wouldn't come out ahead of the game in the long run.

basically, you're special, if you're already special.

going to school ain't gonna make u smarter than you already are capable of.

idiots gonna be idiots their whole lives.


going to university was like comparing myself to everyone else... i realised how dumb everyone else was. It put a proper perspective in my mind.

It taught me tid bits of information (which i could have easily looked up on the internet), and it taught me how the system works and how I can work the system.
and most of all, it taught me how it brain washes people into thinking a certain way. that was the single most important lesson in university.

you go to sheep school, so you can better understand the sheep.
now once u realise that, you can be the herder.

unfortunately there is no herding school... it's just called facing the grim shitty reality and realising it before the others do lol.

[MG1]

Networking was the key for me. What we covered in the courses was irrelevant in the real world. There were a few profs out there who were pretty much out of touch. Jumped through the hoops and made lots of connections. The piece of paper does come in handy, though. Shows people you can jump through the hoops and play the games.

Then again, this was decades ago. Shit may be different nowadays.


Aside from the connections, I learned a shit load from other students - some who were not even in my field of study. Met people who helped me open my eyes, so to speak. Campus life, gotta love it.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Sid Vicious

i must preface first by saying - having a degree itself is not overrated, in the sense it is proven that on average, having a degree makes it easier to find jobs, and is pretty much the bare minimum these days. also, this is post has more to do with social science degrees than STEM ones.

the skills and knowledge taught to you by a university are by and large, completely overrated. in my 4+ years of my degree, i have learnt much more from watching movies, reading and going out and socializing then i ever would have inside a classroom.

the system of learning stifles creativity and individualism, and at the same time is founded on some very shaky pseudo science that only attemps to be emprical (marketing, psychology, sociology, economics, finance etc etc).

it just seems ridiculous to me in that even in post secondary, "learning" is comprised of fact regurtation them without any real thinking done

thoughts/opinions?

what's with all the dumbness on this forum today

a 4 year degree will serve you well for your entire life - not directly, but indirectly (sometimes directly too).

you will learn skills, or at least you should learn these skills, that will allow you to grow in later life.

can you do alright without a degree, of course - but 4 years of higher education is great, surrounded by others who want to grow, learn, be entrepreneurial, change the world, etc.

if you're not surrounded by these people, you're not getting the best out of it - your network from it is important.

nowadays, a degree/4 years in uni is just the start - anyone thinking 'that's enough education for me' will either have be to lucky or very good to make a great living/life for themselves... my personal opinion is to continue to collaborate with good people at every stage (uni is the easiest place for this) and to learn as much as you can in a structured manner - preferably on a corporate dime

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by hchang

My point is look into who created the whole school system (in North America) and why it's in place.
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Before you come here trying to give everyone a little history lesson on university, you may have wanted to learn a little yourself.

Your use of "since the beginning of time" leads me to believe you have very little knowledge of what you are attempting to discuss. Also, there was no "creation of the university system in North America". University has been around for over 1300 years and, just a little knowledge from me to you, North America had yet to be colonized.

Maybe the people from whom you have garnered you higher education from have not guided you in the right direction which is to "know about it before you speak about it".

Until you have learned that, stop.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

Also, there was no "creation of the university system in North America". University has been around for over 1300 years and, just a little knowledge from me to you, North America had yet to be colonized.

did you learn that in university?

[Geoc]

Awful lot of interesting opinions here to say the least.

University is what it is, a educational institution. It's not a magic machine that guarantees you employment, or churns out mindless drones for the rich people. You pay money so that it teaches you knowledge, and it comes with a proof that you have studied in that specific field, there is nothing more.

What you want out of life requires you to do what it takes to achieve it. Some people like like travel throughout their whole life, some want to be a bigshot CEO, some people just want a simple job and settle in one place. If what you want involves university, then its not overrated. Different strokes for different folks.

For the people who complain about getting a business degree and end up working at starbucks, perhaps you shouldn't blame the degree. You should be looking at why you didn't get what you want.

I know a lot of people treat a degree as merely a means to an end, these people need to reflect on themselves and not blame the university. While someone is blaming their degree for their debt and poor employment outlook, there is student who already secured a position at AIG before graduation.