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Old 06-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #51
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Before you come here trying to give everyone a little history lesson on university, you may have wanted to learn a little yourself.

Your use of "since the beginning of time" leads me to believe you have very little knowledge of what you are attempting to discuss. Also, there was no "creation of the university system in North America". University has been around for over 1300 years and, just a little knowledge from me to you, North America had yet to be colonized.

Maybe the people from whom you have garnered you higher education from have not guided you in the right direction which is to "know about it before you speak about it".

Until you have learned that, stop.
I'll give you that I picked a bad choice of words (since the beginning of time). I'm ESL and typed that up while hiding from my boss.

But anywho, what would you like to discuss? And where are you going with this? What I'm elaborating on here is one sentence out of the post.

Universities originated from Europe but I assumed we were talking about Universities in North America unless the demographic of RS are now mainly in Europe.

And there is a "creation" of a system here in North America. Just because something originated from Europe, it is the idea/concept that is taken. For example, lets say you and I wanted to start a University, we can't just go rent a building, write Hchang+Dinosaur University and start signing diplomas in exchange for some money. Correct?

We as a University need to register and go through an accredation process which will allow us to have the right to hand out diplomas. Whereas lets say in Europe or other parts of the world they answer to different governments, different laws, different rules etc.

Your comment on "North America has yet to be colonized" is fairly off topic because I had mentioned specifically the words system and North America. Not "Universities" or "Universities in General".
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:58 PM   #52
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^ Dude man....you don't make any sense.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:05 PM   #53
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I read what he posted and am having a hard time understanding it, glad I'm not the only one.

Sooo, universities come from Europe and something about universities needing accreditation here and therefore its not the same thing?
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:14 PM   #54
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you are sorting to see one of my main gripes with university - you are paying for something that you can easily learn with an internet connection. my degree is completely unrelated to criminology, and i have pretty extensive knowledge on pretty much all the topics that you mentioned, due to reading and watching things on my own time.
Then I guess that could be said even before we had the Internet since you could just go to the library. I'm paying for far more than just going to class only to have the prof assign a bunch of readings. I'm also getting the chance to do presentations (I've done so many I feel confident now) and to write multiple assignments and papers (and incorporate the things I learn) while also benefiting from class discussions and hearing the teachers nuanced understanding of the material. You'd be surprised, a lot of students actually misread and fail to understanding what the author is really saying sometimes so just because they can read it on the Internet doesn't mean they really understand or retain correctly what they've even read.

But I still think you'd come out farther ahead with getting a degree + continuing to read on your own rather than only reading on your own. Like I said, I needed to be introduced to some of the material myself before I could go and explore it further.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:40 PM   #55
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hchang... he's tying it back to who created the school system and the people that over look it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Education_Board

The Educational System Was Designed to Keep Us Uneducated and Docile | Peoples Health

"True education was to be restricted to the sons and daughters of the elite. For the rest, it would be better to productive skilled workers with no particular aspirations other than to enjoy life."

and there you have why we are the way we are today.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:10 PM   #56
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #57
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The key thing university teaches you is critical thinking. its up to you to put a price tag on that.
I know many people that have a degree that can't critically think..
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:14 PM   #58
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i must preface first by saying - having a degree itself is not overrated, in the sense it is proven that on average, having a degree makes it easier to find jobs, and is pretty much the bare minimum these days. also, this is post has more to do with social science degrees than STEM ones.

the skills and knowledge taught to you by a university are by and large, completely overrated. in my 4+ years of my degree, i have learnt much more from watching movies, reading and going out and socializing then i ever would have inside a classroom.

the system of learning stifles creativity and individualism, and at the same time is founded on some very shaky pseudo science that only attemps to be emprical (marketing, psychology, sociology, economics, finance etc etc).

it just seems ridiculous to me in that even in post secondary, "learning" is comprised of fact regurtation them without any real thinking done

thoughts/opinions?
In the right mindset, anything and EVERYTHING can be considered "overated".
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:18 PM   #59
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I know many people that have a degree that can't critically think..
That's because you only need to pass all the necessary courses to get your degree.

You get what you put in.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:37 PM   #60
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The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:58 PM   #61
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That's because you only need to pass all the necessary courses to get your degree.

You get what you put in.
you are making the assumption that some of these courses are even worthwhile to begin with

i mean, this guy did his graduate work at stanford...look at the diagram he placed in his article. has this taught you anything? has this article improved your ability to critically think...nah its just platitudes

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Old 06-28-2013, 12:20 AM   #62
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To answer OPs question in short, yes and no.
I think most people understand that university does not guarantee you a job. Most employers look for a degree because they look for certain qualities in an individual.
How well you can learn?
Are you willing to learn?

I think 1/3rd are people who are “forced” to be there. 1/3rd are people who want to be there. 1/3rd have no idea why they’re there.

As for education itself, I think that changing the education paradigm wouldn’t hurt. With the way technology is advancing why wouldn’t you give something like education an overhaul?


There are already a lot of people who are taking huge strides to change how kids are being educated. You ever hear of Sal Khan, founder of Khan Academy?

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Old 06-28-2013, 12:44 AM   #63
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Universities are overrated? I don't know, being a UVic grad, I can say that I do not have to worry about people asking me 'did you go to university?' sounds silly, but it's true.

You only live once, I went to and graduated university without even knowing what I wanted to do.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:44 AM   #64
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watch this...

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Old 06-28-2013, 02:42 AM   #65
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Everyone's got a degree in something now. Lots of people dive straight into UNI with no clue what to do and graduate with a degree they have no interest in pursuing a career for. I feel that in our society, there is a placebo that if you get a degree in w/e, you are guaranteed a job in w/e field. WRONG. You are only taught the information needed only to be potentially guided to the career in the field, not a guarantee. It also boggles my mind when I see so many arts and psych majors as the career opportunities in both fields are so limited.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:31 AM   #66
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Universities are overrated? I don't know, being a UVic grad, I can say that I do not have to worry about people asking me 'did you go to university?' sounds silly, but it's true.

You only live once, I went to and graduated university without even knowing what I wanted to do.
YOU....have a post-secondary education!?...
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #67
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Universities are overrated? I don't know, being a UVic grad, I can say that I do not have to worry about people asking me 'did you go to university?' sounds silly, but it's true.

You only live once, I went to and graduated university without even knowing what I wanted to do.
I need to jump on this one.

What exactly DO you do?
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:05 AM   #68
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It also boggles my mind when I see so many arts and psych majors as the career opportunities in both fields are so limited.
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One could easily argue that a BSs on its own is worthless too, unless of course it's a pre-requisite for medical school. Heck, even MBA graduates are a dime a dozen these days, even at their astronomical costs (last I heard, UBC is charging over 40K for local MBA students).

At the end of the day, most people end up in jobs that are, at best, tangential to their field of study.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:12 AM   #69
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University is only overrated if:

-You took general studies for 4 years
-You only went there because your parents forced you
-You got a psychology degree because it was the easiest thing to take
-You just wanted to party

If you actually sit down, make a plan, decide where you want to go in a career.. It's not overrated or useless at all.. It just sucks locally because our job market is shit. Go East and find a job.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:32 AM   #70
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The key thing university teaches you is critical thinking. its up to you to put a price tag on that.
Totally agree with you on this point. I just finished my 4 years in a bachelor of business admin andthe most important thing I've learned was to think critically. Don't get me wrong, the 'hard knowledge' I've learned through finance, accounting and MIS courses were invaluable, but it all pales in comparison to critical thinking.

One of my biggest takeaways through 4 years of SFU and several work terms(internships/coops) is how to approach a problem. I've learned a great deal in understanding the full implications of a problem before attempting to solve it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:35 AM   #71
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If you only have a highschool diploma you won't get far, a monkey could graduate. Getting a degree shows hardwork and ambition, not going into post secondary is the easy way out
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i know plenty of people who are making big dough already without any post secondary education. Connection plays a big role in this situation though.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:43 AM   #72
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University is only overrated if:

-You got a psychology degree because it was the easiest thing to take
i wanted a psychology degree b/c i found the courses interesting. but i couldn't figure out what i would do with it after graduation...
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #73
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To answer OPs question in short, yes and no.
I think most people understand that university does not guarantee you a job. Most employers look for a degree because they look for certain qualities in an individual.
How well you can learn?
Are you willing to learn?

I think 1/3rd are people who are “forced” to be there. 1/3rd are people who want to be there. 1/3rd have no idea why they’re there.

As for education itself, I think that changing the education paradigm wouldn’t hurt. With the way technology is advancing why wouldn’t you give something like education an overhaul?

RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms - YouTube

There are already a lot of people who are taking huge strides to change how kids are being educated. You ever hear of Sal Khan, founder of Khan Academy?

Salman Khan talk at TED 2011 (from ted.com) - YouTube
thanks, you put it more succintly than i did. actually showing up to most lectures imo is pointless, but alot of courses aren't offered via distance ed

LA/SS degrees as a whole need to incorporate better teaching techniques and are stuck in a time warp.

most classes still require a textbook, which is stupid as fuck considering how fast the information in one becomes outdated. and although writing papers in stuff is vital to learning, courses should require more "hands on" projects that require creativity. for example, entrepeneurial classes require you to actually market and sell a product.

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Totally agree with you on this point. I just finished my 4 years in a bachelor of business admin andthe most important thing I've learned was to think critically. Don't get me wrong, the 'hard knowledge' I've learned through finance, accounting and MIS courses were invaluable, but it all pales in comparison to critical thinking.

One of my biggest takeaways through 4 years of SFU and several work terms(internships/coops) is how to approach a problem. I've learned a great deal in understanding the full implications of a problem before attempting to solve it.
interesting, i went to the same school and gradded with the same degree (but with a concentration in operations management + finance). but the work experience was 1000% more useful to me than going to class, and i felt the qualitative classes didnt teach me much of anything...like for example, business communication...etc

most people missed the point of this thread. the value of university and higher learning is theoretically priceless, however the execution is sorely lacking. material taught in class is often outdated or worse, and most degrees have dozens of filler courses which are prereqs.

basically social science degrees market themselves as a science when they fail both measures of scientific validity
1) empiricism
2) reproducibility

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Old 06-28-2013, 10:02 AM   #74
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I disagree with shitting on a psych BA. Any degree can be useless....can you get a better job with a History BA? PoliSci? Sociology? Possibly, but it all depends on how much effort you put into you BA in regards to co-ops, work study, memberships to associations, volunteering, etc.

Some just go to university and do nothing. They walk out with a BA in something and expect to get hired the next day. The University and College system is not there to teach you how to get a job. If that is what you want, going to BCIT would be more beneficial. Universities encourage academia...which is obviously an option, but not the only option.

Go into any random Arts department, find an undergrad, and ask them what their plans are once they have graduated. More often than not, their response will be, "Do my MA". Do you know why? Because most think they have no other option. The only people this undergrad has talked to in the last 4 years are the professors. They are going to be shocked and lost when they don't get accepted into an MA program. These undergrads (and any other RSer that is in this position) need to understand that Universities don't hand out MAs like they are candy. Not everyone gets into Grad school.

One of my good friends did a BA in Psych. She worked her ass off doing extracurricular psych-related activities and is crazy successful in a psych-related job. She was offered a full-ride MA by a handful of Universities in Canada....turned them all down. There was no point.

Undergrads need to explore their options and put in the effort! During the last year of my undergrad, I was already working in my field. Why? Because I had worked my ass off and planned. What happened to most of the people in my department who graduated with me? they work as tellers.

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Old 06-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #75
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One of my good friends did a BA in Psych. She worked her ass off doing extracurricular psych-related activities and is crazy successful in a psych-related job. She was offered a full-ride MA by a handful of Universities in Canada....turned them all down. There was no point.
I thought all MA are full ride...


Paying the school to be a research assistant?
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