Buying, Setting up, and Using a Water Chiller/Cooler for PC cooling?

[Mr Colt]

I am building a new rig in the next few months, and I think I want to lean towards water cooling. I have a plumbing background so set up should be very familiar to me.

►Proposal:
◘I want to use some form of water "Chiller" to keep my PC cool.
*Aquarium Chiller, Laboratory Chiller, Drinking fountain Chiller.
*Some method of reliable cooling that isn't effected on ambient temperature.

►Hardware to be used:
◘Case:I love my Wooden case, even if it isn't conducive with cooling.
◘CPU: I5 3770k or I7 4770K (currently undecided )
◘GPU: Single GTX470 4gb (possibly going sli in the late future)
◘ All other hardware has not been picked out yet

►Goals:
◘ I am going to be over-clocking, but nothing extreme. Using the purposed type of equipment may be over kill, and I realize that.
◘ I want to go about using this method for three main reasons:
1. It should allow me to use my current case by having an separate external cooling source.
2. I want to use an external cooling solution in order to move the noise of the cooling system away from the PC location(which is high up and projects in the room) and into a near by closet.
3. My room is small and stuffy, and tho I have an AC in it, it has to compete with the heat given off by the PC. I want to put the cooling system in the closet to move the heat out of the room a bit. Hopefully that will allow the AC to not work as much.

►Perimeters:
◘The PC is sitting roughly 70" above the floor.
◘The future possible location of the cooling system will be in a small closet, with a total distance of around 120"-160" from the back of the pc, requiring twice that length in water tubing.
*The cooling system may be placed on the floor or fairly high above the case remotely.
◘Depending on how I rearrange the contents of the closet I would have roughly around, enough room for 3 standard size PC cases. I can't be more exact about how much space I have to work with in.

►Budget:
◘I realize this is a bit of an exotic concept to be going with. I would like to stay under $400, even then I find that a lot of money to be spending on cooling. For now it's just a number to consider but not to be completely firm on.
◘I am a DIY guy, to save money, I will be considering options like using a used drinking fountain chilling unit with an added pump, tho i have no idea if something like that would be practical for my goals.

►What I need to know:
◘ I have read people doing things like this with good success, but I don't know if there are any details I am missing. Please point those sort of things out.
◘ I don't know what sort of products I can choose from. Please suggest options.
◘ I tend to over simplify things in my mind. I am under the current concept that after plumbing the pc case, it's just a matter of attaching it to a cooling system. I am unsure if I need much of a control system for the cooling system?

Thank you for your future help. Please ask me anything if i can make things more clear.

[Keiichi]

My 2 cents...
Not really worth it for the payoffs your looking for.

When your talking about using some sort of "chiller" i'm getting idea your referring to some sort of cooling system like a refrigerator. Basically it will require you to have some sort of compressor and pump in the system. (really noisy, probably uses up lots of power too) Also you would have to have some controller to prevent the system from running too cold, or risk condensation build up. This is probably why most of the off the shelf liquid cooling systems, like the stuff Corsair sells is just a heat sink, lines, radiator and a fan. This method ends up really simple and just moves the heat away from the CPU.

With regards to you wanting to pump the heat into the closet, there is a point where cooling system will be less effective as you pump all that heat into your closet. The heat has to go somewhere... as the heat in the closet rises it only gets harder to pump that heat in there. Think heat gradients. You are better off pumping it out your window.

$400 is pretty expensive for a cooling system considering you can buy off the shelf water cooling systems for ~$100 and if noise is an issue just replace your case fans with good low noise fans (ie some nice Noctua fans ~$15 a piece).

Anyways, probably the easiest and probably cheapest way to solve your problems is buy off the shelf water cooling system from corsair and buy good low noise fans. And finally for moving the heat somewhere else all you need to do is just buy some cheap flexible ducting on the exhaust of your case and lead it to the window. You may need a fan on the other end for better air flow.

[Mr Colt]

Your right about a few things in my theoretical set up.
After thinking about it for a while the hole project can be summed up into one simple concept:
1. Cooling the computer by taking the heat away from it with out putting it back to the room the computer is in.

I came up with a possible theoretical solution to do this better with out using a chiller.
The PC sits upon a 70" tall cabinet. To the right of the cabinet is the closet door, but to the right of it, on the wall near the floor is a furnace intake vent.
My idea is to put a radiator over the vent's intake (6"x"12) put fans on it that would suck air out of the room, push it thru the rad, and into the wall intake vent. The water loop would have to travel approximately 80" in ether direction.
Thoughts? Could this concept work to cool both the CPU (OCed) and GPU(default)?

[rsx]

No idea what I'm talking about but here's a thought. Since you already have fans cooling, you just need to take the heat away, right?
Can't you install an exhaust style fan, hook up a tube from the exhaust all the way into a jug of water and let the air/heat escape into water? (it'll be blowing air bubbles pretty much)

That way your room isn't just getting the hot air from the pc?
/no idea what i'm talking about

[twitchyzero]

build a typical custom PC...spend $300 on a AC
what youre suggesting seems very convoluted
I know it's a project but this is honestly the easiest way to achieve the same results

also GTX470 creates a bit of heat...get a newer card for your new build and that'll solve a lot of the heat equation on its own

[Mr Colt]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

build a typical custom PC...spend $300 on a AC
what youre suggesting seems very convoluted
I know it's a project but this is honestly the easiest way to achieve the same results

also GTX470 creates a bit of heat...get a newer card for your new build and that'll solve a lot of the heat equation on its own

My current computer uses a gtx260, and i have no plans on doing anything with my current computer. I am building a new computer in the next few months, with a gtx770 4g, with a SLI option in the late future.

I have an AC in my room, it was around $500. It can keep my room plenty chillly on its own. but its noiser then all my electronics put together. I'm trying to make it so i dont need to use it so much.

[G-spec]

There's a case you can buy on ncix that does exactly what you want, look it up, its the only $1000 case on the website

[Geoc]

I don't understand why you would want a chiller. Most water chillers are designed to fight ambient temp, not an active load of 400w in the water.

Water chillers aren't popular for a reason, thats because even if you do it properly and have a powerful enough chiller, you'll probably see 5-10C below ambient.

You should really try out watercooling by itself before leaping into water chillers.

[3klipze]

Water chilled?

Just mineral oil your rig in a fish tank. Done.

[Mr Colt]

Originally Posted by Geoc

I don't understand why you would want a chiller. Most water chillers are designed to fight ambient temp, not an active load of 400w in the water.

Water chillers aren't popular for a reason, thats because even if you do it properly and have a powerful enough chiller, you'll probably see 5-10C below ambient.

You should really try out watercooling by itself before leaping into water chillers.

And after doing further research into it I agree, condensation scares me and isnt worth the risk of a chiller if I'm not planing on doing some extreme OCing.

Originally Posted by 3klipze

Water chilled?

Just mineral oil your rig in a fish tank. Done.

Part of the challenge I presented to this thread was so that I can use a solution that works for my current case that I want to reuse, I love my wooden case.
Also for the sake of discussion, using a water chillier on a submerged fish tank set up would be a perferct combo, chilling the fluid in the tank with out the risk of condensation, you could drop the heat down as low as you wanted to(relatively).

Originally Posted by G-spec

There's a case you can buy on ncix that does exactly what you want, look it up, its the only $1000 case on the website

As I said, I am not divorcing my current case. I did look it up, and it looks pretty good from a functional standpoint. As I mentioned in the start of the thread I wouldn't let my budget for cooling go passed $400, $1000 for a case Is out of the question. What's worse is that you can only use a specific list of motherboards, and it says nothing if a haswell system is compatible.
But thank you for the suggestion, it's always good to know what's out there.


I'm going to run some tests today, I want to see what kind of temperature change there is in my room with the PC off, on, and under load. I know it pushes a lot of heat, but maybe not enough for me to be going this far to compensate. My projector's bulb pushes a ton more heat then anything else.

[Geoc]

IF you HAVE to do it, then 400 is not enough. Just the neoprene itself will cost half your budget.

Also skip chillers, take an AC and submerge the condenser in a ice cooler along with the WC radiator.

[Presto]

Personally, I don't think there's much advantage in CPU overclocking, anymore. Processors are powerful and cheap. I'd put resources into chilling the GPU, especially if you're going SLI. The proximity of GPUs in SLI causes massive heat. I've got a pair of 7950's doing some cryptocoin mining, and I have to leave the case cover off, along with a couple of FM121 fans to move the heat off.

[Mr Colt]

Originally Posted by Presto

Personally, I don't think there's much advantage in CPU overclocking, anymore. Processors are powerful and cheap. I'd put resources into chilling the GPU, especially if you're going SLI. The proximity of GPUs in SLI causes massive heat. I've got a pair of 7950's doing some cryptocoin mining, and I have to leave the case cover off, along with a couple of FM121 fans to move the heat off.

One of my main goals in this next build is to push the "Dolphin" GC/wii Emulator as hard as possible. Dolphin is extremely CPU dependent and really doesn't need nearly as much GPU power in comparison. An Ivybridge pushed to 4.2-4.5 is where you need to be for the best emulation experience.
Watch this video, Note his specs and OC in the description, also keep in mind that, that game was built for a 480 system with no AA or any other graphical enhancements.:

Super Mario Galaxy on Dolphin 3.0 - 1080p HD - YouTube

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by Mr Colt

An Ivybridge pushed to 4.2-4.5 is where you need to be for the best emulation experience.

you can do that with a $30 Hyper 212+ CPU cooler
I dont know the thermal characteristics of your wooden case but I've never seen the need for sucha complex cooling system for your average CPU OC.

[Mr Colt]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

you can do that with a $30 Hyper 212+ CPU cooler
I dont know the thermal characteristics of your wooden case but I've never seen the need for sucha complex cooling system for your average CPU OC.

As I said before, It's not an issue about keeping the computer cool, it's an issue of keeping both the computer and the room it's in cool.
Every single traditional form of PC cooling uses a heatsync/tower cooler or radiator to keep it cool, and those are always left inside or right beside the computer case, which then vents into the rest of the room. My goal is to cool the computer with out venting the heat given off by the computer back into the room it is sitting it. To do that we have to move the heat away from the computer, ether by venting out of the room or use a difernt kind of cooling that doesn't involve ambient temperature. The latter seemed like a good idea but now I'm giving up on it. Venting the heat out of the room however does seem like the best solution for what I want to do, and the only way I know of doing that so far, is to use some form of external cooling unit which can be put in or directed into an other room.

[Psykopathik]

get some laundry drier ducting and divert the exhaust air out of the room into the hallway. better yet, out a window. place a fan on the exhaust end and you're set. cheap and works.


as most everyone said. you're treading into a zone of diminishing returns on investment.

[Mr Colt]

I went over things in my mind again, decided that using a chillier comes with a lot of risks. And put together this concept:

As You probably already know, most AV Components use standard sizes that are compatible with server mounting solutions.

The image on the left shows a nice little cabinet where all my AV components could be mounted into. (note the center image is just an example, the cabinet would be against a wall, not in one)
Using a cabinet/rack like that:
◘I would mount the AV equipment in the center of the cabinet leaving room both at top and bottom.
◘Depending how deep the cabinet is and how it's designed, the back would then be lightly sealed with something like "Corrugated Plastic sheet" allow for minimal air loss but cutting holes in the sheet for any wires.
◘Then fans would be mounted ether on the bottom under the cab, on the front of the bottom, or both, allowing it to suck in cool air from the floor and push it up thru AV components and up to the top hollow space.
*The computer would likely be mounted at the bottom giving it the coolest freshest air.
*if needed, there would be room for added fans to be sandwiched between the AC component layers.
*The computer would also have aftermarket HSF inside it of course.
◘The top hollowed area would be reasonably sealed and have a fan or two at the back or side of the cab sucking the accumulated heated air out. A dryer hose(or something like it) would then be attached to the face of the fan and directed into the wall vent.
*If every thing went according to plan and fit the right dimensions, the server cab would easily hide the dryer hose, which is in the corner of the room any ways.

In theory, it would isolate much of the heat given off my the electronics and keep the heat from entering the air of the room.
The concept is not unlike others done before:




In theory, my concept would help prevent the heat of all the electronics of the room from enter the room.
Essentially, using the Cabinet in my concept, turns it into giant PC case with built in Amp and TV tuner. I could even make server rack adapters for any consoles I like to use. The only unusual thing is the way it would be cooled.

Thoughts?