REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

doritos · 10-02-2013, 03:53 AM

There may already be threads on this but I can't seem to find them. What is the difference between the two? which one do students enroll in? Stupid question, but I need some insight on this.

!SG · 10-02-2013, 04:48 AM

technicians are a trade.

as a trade, you need to start from the bottom, an apprentice.

once you've done your hours, pass your exams, you hopefully become a licensed technician. this process takes about 4 years.

to become a technician is not cheap, companies are willing to invest in you. they pay for a % of your training, and schooling, in exchange for a lower waged, % of full paid techicians pay. to be a tech, you need the endorsement of the company.

Iceman-19 · 10-02-2013, 05:01 AM

Auto technician is the pre-apprenticeship program. Apprenticeship is once you have been sent to school by your employer.

It sure as hell isn't easy, but its your money to waste. The pre-apprenticeship program is the one you are looking for if you are fresh to the trade. VCC has a great program.

*edit* And yes, there are at least a half dozen threads on this, you probably never used the search function if you couldn't find them.

doritos · 10-02-2013, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman-19

Auto technician is the pre-apprenticeship program. Apprenticeship is once you have been sent to school by your employer.

It sure as hell isn't easy, but its your money to waste. The pre-apprenticeship program is the one you are looking for if you are fresh to the trade. VCC has a great program.

*edit* And yes, there are at least a half dozen threads on this, you probably never used the search function if you couldn't find them.

so at the bcit website, I would be enrolling for the automotive technician foundation course? because I see automotive technician foundation and then automotive technician by-itself with "apprenticeship" underneath. Do they earn a good income? I was originally going to go with IT network or electrical engineering, but then realized I really love and enjoy my time working on and repairing vehicles.

I need some help from any mechanics to point me in the right direction where to start it off into the industry. I'll be headed there later today to check it out and sign up.

!SG · 10-02-2013, 05:47 AM

foundation is pre apprentice.

technician w/ apprenticeship is if you are working at a dealer/shop as contracted apprentice. you have to go to classes every year, and take the yearly exam. my apprentices each leave for about 6-8 weeks a year for their classes and exams.

CorneringArtist · 10-02-2013, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doritos

so at the bcit website, I would be enrolling for the automotive technician foundation course? because I see automotive technician foundation and then automotive technician by-itself with "apprenticeship" underneath. Do they earn a good income? I was originally going to go with IT network or electrical engineering, but then realized I really love and enjoy my time working on and repairing vehicles.

I need some help from any mechanics to point me in the right direction where to start it off into the industry. I'll be headed there later today to check it out and sign up.

Be very careful about wanting to turn a hobby into a job. Sure there's days where you want to work on your car on a weekend, but there's others where you feel so burned out working on other people's cars that the last thing you want to do is grab a wrench for your own.
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doritos · 10-02-2013, 06:41 AM

suggestions to what I should do? Is it best to go into foundations? How would I do apprenticeship after foundations 6 month course?

Yeah I know it's a hobby but I did work at Canadian tire back in high school for tire mounting and it wasn't boring at all. I'm very sure this is what I want.
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CorneringArtist · 10-02-2013, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doritos

suggestions to what I should do? Is it best to go into foundations? How would I do apprenticeship after foundations 6 month course?

Yeah I know it's a hobby but I did work at Canadian tire back in high school for tire mounting and it wasn't boring at all. I'm very sure this is what I want.
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If you have no formal training, the best path is Foundation as is has a practicum, if the shop is looking afterwards, they may hire you on. Otherwise, its a resume bomb to try and find a place.
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mb_ · 10-02-2013, 07:15 AM

^in addition to what he said, Toyota foundation offers the practicum while the regular one does not. It's also not uncommon if a dealer starts you out as lot
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Iceman-19 · 10-02-2013, 11:54 AM

You do foundations then hope one day, you get apprenticed when you get a job at a shop where you arent just changing tires or oil all day. Expect to take at least 3-4 years before you crack 20 bucks an hour. Auto tech is a shit trade to get into.

HKS PWR · 10-02-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman-19

Auto tech is a shit trade to get into.

Agreed! Most kids wants to be an automotive tech because they want to tinker with cars, when in fact 80% of the work they do are routine maintenance/repairs (i.e. oil changes, tire repair/replacing tires, check/replacing brakes, change coolant/transmission fluid, etc.) The other 20% of the time you get shit work like diagnosing a noise that takes three visits to the shop to fix.

The other thing is that the automotive repair industry is constantly evolving, both in the vehicle itself and the way they are serviced. Ten years ago, I had technicians that didn't own a computer at home and didn't know how to use one. Today, they can't even start the day without one.

If automotive tech is what you really want, spend the time and money and take the foundations course. This will give you the very basics in safety, tools, etiquette and overview of vehicle repairs. Trying to find a company that is willing to indenture you as an apprentice, and invest time and money to educate you is tough. Now imagine telling your potential employer you have minimal/no classroom training and practical experience.

PS If things haven't change in the automotive apprenticeship program in the few years, when you successfully complete the foundation course, you get credit for your first year in your apprenticeship and hours too.

doritos · 10-02-2013, 02:37 PM

Those of you that are in this trade, is this the similar path you took? Foundations and then finding an employer after 6 months and acquiring an apprenticeship? Do you guys know how long into the course until you work on drive train, engine areas? I emailed them but they did not give much information except basic outline and entrance fees.
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Iceman-19 · 10-02-2013, 04:36 PM

You apparently are not reading the replies in this thread. Let me address your entire post.

I took the automotive pre-app aka, foundations course. Took 7 months (hear its 9 months now), and cost me 5k. Biggest waste of time and money in my life. After wasting 7 months and a lot of money, I managed after sending out a ton of resumes to get on at a Toyota dealership. I changing oil for 3 months, and asked about my apprenticeship, when they told me now its going to be another 3 months. 2-3 months later, asked again, was given the run around again. They had also hired a 1st year apprentice in the mean time, pissing me off to no end.

During this time, I was earning 12.50-13/hr. The 1st year app was making 14.20. You can almost guarentee you are going to be putting in at least a year at 12-14 bucks an hour, doing shit work like tires and oil changes, before you even get a chance to apprentice, IF you are offered a chance that is.

After being dicked around, and talking to fellow techs in the trade, I got on as a serviceman on the port mann project for kiewit, immediately doubling my income. After I took that experience and went to Fort Mac, I doubled it again. If I was still in the auto trades, I suspect I may be earning 22-27/hr an hr by now, depending on where I was living/working.

As for your 2nd question, you do not work on drivetrain or engines in the foundations course, that is not until lvl 2 or 4 of your auto apprenticeship, I dont remember which. Foundations will teach you shop safety, tools, tool safety, brakes, basic suspension, alignment, general maintenence and tune up shit. Let me reiterate.

YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAKE MONEY IN THE TRADE.

BTW, as I said, I already tried. I am now a 3rd year HD mechanic apprentice.

vvd · 10-02-2013, 07:28 PM

Honestly, just go on the different school websites and click around. They should tell you what the focus is on in each year.

VCC was 10 months for me. Then we had to find jobs on our own. I know/heard of quite a few people who got jerked around when looking for apprenticeships though (wasting a whole year working as a lot boy only not to get signed in the end). What you get exposure to in school really depends on your instructor (my instructor made me put together a tranny, for example) and what you get to work on really depends on the shop you get hired at, but chances are you'll probably mostly be washing cars, changing oil, and rotating tires for like 2 years... then maybe... MAYBE you'll get to work on brakes or something.

I completed foundations. It was useful and I can take care of my own car, but I found out I liked it more as a hobby than anything.

doritos · 10-02-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman-19

You apparently are not reading the replies in this thread. Let me address your entire post.

I took the automotive pre-app aka, foundations course. Took 7 months (hear its 9 months now), and cost me 5k. Biggest waste of time and money in my life. After wasting 7 months and a lot of money, I managed after sending out a ton of resumes to get on at a Toyota dealership. I changing oil for 3 months, and asked about my apprenticeship, when they told me now its going to be another 3 months. 2-3 months later, asked again, was given the run around again. They had also hired a 1st year apprentice in the mean time, pissing me off to no end.

During this time, I was earning 12.50-13/hr. The 1st year app was making 14.20. You can almost guarentee you are going to be putting in at least a year at 12-14 bucks an hour, doing shit work like tires and oil changes, before you even get a chance to apprentice, IF you are offered a chance that is.

After being dicked around, and talking to fellow techs in the trade, I got on as a serviceman on the port mann project for kiewit, immediately doubling my income. After I took that experience and went to Fort Mac, I doubled it again. If I was still in the auto trades, I suspect I may be earning 22-27/hr an hr by now, depending on where I was living/working.

As for your 2nd question, you do not work on drivetrain or engines in the foundations course, that is not until lvl 2 or 4 of your auto apprenticeship, I dont remember which. Foundations will teach you shop safety, tools, tool safety, brakes, basic suspension, alignment, general maintenence and tune up shit. Let me reiterate.

YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAKE MONEY IN THE TRADE.

BTW, as I said, I already tried. I am now a 3rd year HD mechanic apprentice.

shit...did not know it was that difficult in the industry to find an apprenticeship at the end. I guess most of the mechanics that do make good money took a different course of action when they finished the courses or they got lucky right.

Iceman-19 · 10-03-2013, 08:18 AM

Any auto mechanics that are making good money are living in Alberta, or have been at their respective shops for a LONG time. I can go to Fort Mac and put fuel into heavy equipment with little to no skill required and make double hourly what the average auto mechanic makes down here. Apples to oranges as to where you work, but its true.

VR6GTI · 10-03-2013, 08:41 AM

If your good at what you do and show you can make your time. You'll get hired as an apprentice and make good money. That's the problem alot of people get into the trade and aren't really cut out for the line of work.

Iron Chef · 10-04-2013, 11:25 PM

I will offer some positive insight, I've been in the trade for 13yrs now.

Right after high school i took the AST program at BCIT. That was a 2 yr program. After i finished school (2002) it was a tough job market, so i fucked around and got outta the trade. i was still playing around with my car and really into it.

After i got tired of playing around decided to get back into the trade, and worked at a couple small private shops grinding it out making 10 bucks an hour but getting huge valuable experience.

I finally found a shop that was willing to take me on as an apprentice and i grinded it out there for 4 years and got my ticket. After i got my red seal and was officially a journey man i decided to take a break and chilled out for a couple months, when i got sick of that i decided to look for a job. Took me all of 4 hours to get a job based on my past experience.

I'm a strong advocate for for the trade, Its served me well, i've found it extremely fulfilling, it allows me to live comfortably , i mean your not gonna become rich but i've never had to worry about money. I've never had trouble finding a job and i have the choice to work anywhere i want.

The two hardest parts are figuring out whether this is the right career path for you and getting your foot in the door. Once you got that figured out its all gravy from there.

Doing your apprenticeship at a dealer is the worst thing you could do. I would probrably say 80% of the dealer trained tech, suck the other 20 and genuine car guys who love it enough to learn on there own to master the trade. Its a trade off of short term pain for long term gain. It always sucks balls to work for peanuts doing crap work that no one else wants to do but thats where you learn the fundamentals.

You do what you love and you will become good at it enough that the money will follow. Money should never be the main motivator in anything in life especially your career, and especially this one cuz if your not good at it or don't enjoy it you will eventually hate it.

You also have to be enthusiastic about the product too, working on corrollas and civics get boring real quick. If your enthusiastic about the product then you'll probrably be enthusiastic about the work.

I don't know if i would put too much weight on Iceman 19, sounds like he went about it the totally wrong way and it left a bitter taste in his mouth.

alex.w *// · 10-05-2013, 07:31 AM

In my opion, I think going into high and low voltage electrical has more job opportunities and can branch off into many different trades

see.lai · 10-05-2013, 07:54 AM

finished the AST at vcc, been a wash guy for 3 months..

find something else
?

bloodmack · 10-05-2013, 08:14 AM

I finished my foundations course in october of 2012, still looking for a shop to take me as an apprentice.. but right now i'm working at a tire shop (accumulating no hours) just to have some kind of shop experience to slap on my resume (outside of any schooling). People say don't make your hobby a job.. no make it a passion. A job is what you make of it simple as that. To belittle a trade you are in.. how can you work so hard for something that you dislike so much? lol

Impreza · 10-05-2013, 10:55 AM

I've been working in the trade for over about 14 years now. I love working on cars, why I chose this trade. This trade is hard work and expensive, tools add up. If you don't have the passion on solving problems every day or the patience, this might not be where you want to be in. It is not all about just changing parts. Even on my days off work I'm usually try to keep up with new car tech.
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Iceman-19 · 10-05-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Chef

I will offer some positive insight, I've been in the trade for 13yrs now.

Right after high school i took the AST program at BCIT. That was a 2 yr program. After i finished school (2002) it was a tough job market, so i fucked around and got outta the trade. i was still playing around with my car and really into it.

After i got tired of playing around decided to get back into the trade, and worked at a couple small private shops grinding it out making 10 bucks an hour but getting huge valuable experience.

I finally found a shop that was willing to take me on as an apprentice and i grinded it out there for 4 years and got my ticket. After i got my red seal and was officially a journey man i decided to take a break and chilled out for a couple months, when i got sick of that i decided to look for a job. Took me all of 4 hours to get a job based on my past experience.

I'm a strong advocate for for the trade, Its served me well, i've found it extremely fulfilling, it allows me to live comfortably , i mean your not gonna become rich but i've never had to worry about money. I've never had trouble finding a job and i have the choice to work anywhere i want.

The two hardest parts are figuring out whether this is the right career path for you and getting your foot in the door. Once you got that figured out its all gravy from there.

Doing your apprenticeship at a dealer is the worst thing you could do. I would probrably say 80% of the dealer trained tech, suck the other 20 and genuine car guys who love it enough to learn on there own to master the trade. Its a trade off of short term pain for long term gain. It always sucks balls to work for peanuts doing crap work that no one else wants to do but thats where you learn the fundamentals.

You do what you love and you will become good at it enough that the money will follow. Money should never be the main motivator in anything in life especially your career, and especially this one cuz if your not good at it or don't enjoy it you will eventually hate it.

You also have to be enthusiastic about the product too, working on corrollas and civics get boring real quick. If your enthusiastic about the product then you'll probrably be enthusiastic about the work.

I don't know if i would put too much weight on Iceman 19, sounds like he went about it the totally wrong way and it left a bitter taste in his mouth.

Yeah, going to school for the trade and then getting a job in the industry only to be jerked around. I have seen a ton of apprenticeship jobs posted for lvl1 and 2 for auto techs tho, goes to show that they are starting to realize they fucked up with a lack of apprentices.

civicdohctor · 10-05-2013, 12:27 PM

Iron Chef nailed it, take the AST FORD ASSET CLASS AT BCIT, it's a well round course including academics and business so the student understands both sides of the whole business. Also while in the course you get benefits like dental and more. There is also additional help for job placement so BCIT supply lists of businesses looking to hire students out of this program, there is a lot I left out also. During your time learning I also recommend help family and friends fix and maintain their vehicle so you get additional hands on experience...automotive is a really good trade to learn because you can almost apply everything you learn as a technician to most other trades out there....
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blackGS? · 10-05-2013, 09:07 PM

Don't listen to Civicdohctor. He got out of the trade
just in time. Hahaha
I'm going to Ford school first week of November man.

You don't lose anything when you learn to work on your
own vehicle.
As a Tech, auto repairs and maintenance is something I don't have to
budget for. Except for parts, even then you still get awesome
discounts and freebies
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