hey guys

[bcrdukes]

Of course.

gudda, come join the dark side.

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

being indifferent and "i don't give a fuck" are very different.

if one is indifferent, then they technically should't care if it happens or not, or if they're involved or not.

"i don't give a fuck" usually just means "i dont wanna do it, and i don't wanna see it, and i don't wanna be part of it in anyway".

I don't give a fuck screams ego.
indifference... is indifference. no emotion, no care. but you're not TRYING to NOT care. you're not giving any negative attitude toward the subject at hand.

Exactly. Just want to add.

The "I don't give a fuck" when you got someone angry or you crashed into a car, or broke someone's fence, is written with ego all over it.

The other "I don't give a fuck" is when you openly speak to someone not giving a fuck about negligence, rejection, denial, etc. Or when you openly have a conversation about anything with anybody at any given time, not giving a fuck about who hears it.

That's the difference between the two imo.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

lol I don't know how one can do anything beyond introspective theoretical self reflection when on a heavy dose of psychedelics... let alone show up at work LOL...

anyway... I think introverts have a lot harder time letting go of ego... or separating their consciousness from the ego. if that even makes sense.

just something about the introversion dominant people, not willing to accept and break down some wall that protects "them" and "their privacy" from the outside world/other people...
Wanting to be separate or unique, not willing to share their "mind" openly and indiscreetly. There's some underlying fear/paranoia, of intrusion or conformity and "losing their identity" or uniqueness... their values are a lot more ego based than some extroverts (this is a generalization of course).

but this is what I've seen in my study of personalities.

Just remember, there's nothing to hide, you're not unique or special anyway, all those thoughts, and feelings, are just the ego clawing at you. The feeling of "you" being an "individual" and YOU and not "them", is just illusionary. of course the feeling will never go away.

similar feeling finding a bug hanging out beside where you sleep. You know the bug is harmless, but you cant shake that feeling of intrusion. But you can control it. Realise it's not real. It's only you. lol. does any of that make sense at all?

anyway i glad u made this thread, there's not many threads about the relationship between the consciousness and the ego (basically your relationship with... some other part of yourself).

I don't quite agree with you on the introvert part mainly because I am an introvert myself. Introverts tend to need a break from "people". Some who don't speak, and many I've met, isn't usually about their ego but it's the way they function.

Quite a few I've met are quite open when I got to know them. They depend on extrovert personalities to get them going. When I am quiet around people, it's usually because I don't wanna put in the effort in getting my point across or waste my time having a hi and bye conversation (some circumstances, I prefer to just be quiet and think about other stuff like how to plan my day, how to solve an issue I am having, etc). Is this a barrier I am putting up? Not really, not that I consider it. I just don't feel like wasting time on pointless encounters or conversations.

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

LOL you summed up the attitudes of hipsters just like that.

And hipsters have very welcoming personality and an open mind.

[guddagudd]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Of course.

gudda, come join the dark side.

Well, my pants have been getting tighter lately... nofatty

[Powerslide]

I hope this doesn't make me sound too crazy, but I feel as if there are different characters in a person's mind. They are kind of like voices/perspectives, that come into being and then sort of fuse out when you analyze them. One perspective is usually a childish one, that wants things now and experiences frustration. The other is a teacher/disciplinarian that answers with logic and restriction. You take the role of each in the argument - you're one side and then the other.

Do this for a while and you realize that you're in the center, quietly observing. And once you realize you're doing that the other two suddenly vanish, or you realize they are now like a movie and not part of you. It's weird.

If you suddenly have to do something outward facing, like talk to someone or actively participate in something, it all goes away too and you're just one person again.

Voyages of introspection...

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

I hope this doesn't make me sound too crazy, but I feel as if there are different characters in a person's mind. They are kind of like voices/perspectives, that come into being and then sort of fuse out when you analyze them. One perspective is usually a childish one, that wants things now and experiences frustration. The other is a teacher/disciplinarian that answers with logic and restriction. You take the role of each in the argument - you're one side and then the other.

Do this for a while and you realize that you're in the center, quietly observing. And once you realize you're doing that the other two suddenly vanish, or you realize they are now like a movie and not part of you. It's weird.

nah this isnt crazy it's true.

it's like multiple personalities. or how in dreams you have the ability to generate thousands of independent unique characters (which always represent some aspect of you, i mean, you are the ones generating them). Sometimes those inner personalities show up at odd times, when emotions are heightened or whatever... when you're "awake" and conscious, your ego/personality is just... a combination of all those.

as for sitting there and observing, and realising none of those personalities are actually you. I agree. but then you realise, when observing, sometimes you see things you like/dont like.... and then you think to yourself... who is this self feeling these things? or thinking these things? analyzing these things... I think no matter what, you cannot escape those other personalties. even when observing, the self still is made up of all the other personalities you aren't observing. I mean, otherwise, you'd just be a camcorder... just observing and recording. but not really using the information in anyway, not analyzing or doing any critical thinking. but the thing is you are still doing all those things. your life becomes a movie, but who's doing the observing?

Originally Posted by mr_chin

I don't quite agree with you on the introvert part mainly because I am an introvert myself. Introverts tend to need a break from "people". Some who don't speak, and many I've met, isn't usually about their ego but it's the way they function.

Quite a few I've met are quite open when I got to know them. They depend on extrovert personalities to get them going. When I am quiet around people, it's usually because I don't wanna put in the effort in getting my point across or waste my time having a hi and bye conversation (some circumstances, I prefer to just be quiet and think about other stuff like how to plan my day, how to solve an issue I am having, etc). Is this a barrier I am putting up? Not really, not that I consider it. I just don't feel like wasting time on pointless encounters or conversations.

I'm not talking about the need to have "alone time". Everyone needs that. Introverts more than extroverts. alone time is fine...

but what if you could have your alone time, but your life was free for others to glance over, like a book, or a detailed facebook page? why not?

I'm talking about the heightened paranoia (compared to the average person), about stuff like...

-masking your wifi signal

-not using google products cuz they collect your information

-not using facebook or highly controlling what is released on facebook (pictures info etc)

-always using secure encryption type browsing

-thinking other people will try to take advantage of you if you share your mind/life with them (whether its real life or online).

etc the list goes on.

i find all these tendencies to be overly protective of the self, predominantly are all introverts. Of course there are some introverts that don't care as much, but if I had to chart out how uncomfortable they are with having their mind pried open for all to see... I can guarantee introverts will rate higher than extroverts.

as for small talk, i understand the hindrance behind having to act all nice and do the "hi how are you?" stuff...
but think about it... why does it bother you so much that you don't even wanna put the effort.. the small effort to talk to "someone else"... other than yourself. It's because you view that someone else as separate from you. You view yourself as an independent agent more so than others.

why don't you view strangers or others as... just other ants in the same colony you live in? other cells in what makes up the entirety of human civilization? the same as you. no different. not separate.

like you said yourself... you'd rather think about how to plan YOUR day, how to solve an issue YOURE having... you don't wanna waste "your" time.

Why aren't you trying to solve an issue someone else is having or planning someone elses day? why is it your time? and not our time? why not everyone's time?

but you don't benefit from it so you choose not to do it? because "you effort/time" is being "wasted".

you don't see how this leads back to ego? your intrinsic values are to place the self first.

your time is "being wasted" but the value is being added onto someone else that appreciates it... so why with hold it? at the end of the day, it's a zero sum game. what you give, someone else will take, it still adds up to 100%.

i mean we're not talking about sacrificing yourself for some bum on the street. we're talking about simple gestures.

as someone introvert dominant, thoughts and perceptions emanate from the "self".. outwards. that alone pushes the ego higher up than others already... do you guys not agree?

the fact that you identify yourself as independent kinda makes it more egotistical already right?

I mean i'm not shooting down introverts. introverts are needed etc. there's always a need for balance. ying yang, order chaos, extrovert introvert.

but i'm talking purely based on critical logic. introverts on average view themselves as a self, separate from others. not just physically, but mentally.

i mean how often do you judge things or analyze a scenario, and you think about where it places you on the map?

how often do you judge things on where it places others on the map... how often do you approach a scenario and just ignore the self, as if you didn't exist at all?

i always use this example:

in the future, cybernetics has enabled people to connect their minds at a near instantaneous level.
when two people are connected, they become one. Their memories and feelings and everything, are shared, as if you also lived as the other person. except not only two people are connected. millions are connected. the millions of people connect dictate the direction of the collective consciousness. You can sort of relate it to an ant colony or a hive of bees. Except everyone is a worker, and everyone is the queen at some level. when meeting another person connected, you can instantaneous identify with them as if you have lived their life, and they have lived your life. Their memories and your memories kind of become a blur, you remember who you were before, but after connecting, all memories and experiences after seem kind of a mix of everyone in the collectives.

you are able to unplug, but majority of people don't. it would feel like a human becoming an ape again in terms of intellectual and awareness level.

does this idea appeal to you? if so, why? if not, why?


(like i said, im not knocking down introversion, i'm just analyzing it critically. and where it stands on terms of ego... I just think intrinsically, introversion is prone to more egotistical tenancies, looking after the self, separating the self from others. on the flip side, extroversions intrinsic fault is the need to get validation from others, but again, is that not the ego working at some level??? the self vs others... compared to validating through others...)

[guddagudd]

LOL I feel like your post was an essay question. If so, why? If not, why not?

But I've never saw it from that way before, that if I was viewing myself as independent, that ties in with ego. I've always wanted to be independent to not bother/encumber others. I also feel like, if I give others the ability to do something for me, I would start to lose that ability to do things for myself. That is why when my mom asks me to not wash the dishes, I would do them, or other chores around the house. My dad on the other hand could not be happier, haha.

Good stuff Ulic, you've truly brought some relief to me. Let's hope I make it permanent.

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

nah this isnt crazy it's true.

it's like multiple personalities. or how in dreams you have the ability to generate thousands of independent unique characters (which always represent some aspect of you, i mean, you are the ones generating them). Sometimes those inner personalities show up at odd times, when emotions are heightened or whatever... when you're "awake" and conscious, your ego/personality is just... a combination of all those.

as for sitting there and observing, and realising none of those personalities are actually you. I agree. but then you realise, when observing, sometimes you see things you like/dont like.... and then you think to yourself... who is this self feeling these things? or thinking these things? analyzing these things... I think no matter what, you cannot escape those other personalties. even when observing, the self still is made up of all the other personalities you aren't observing. I mean, otherwise, you'd just be a camcorder... just observing and recording. but not really using the information in anyway, not analyzing or doing any critical thinking. but the thing is you are still doing all those things. your life becomes a movie, but who's doing the observing?




I'm not talking about the need to have "alone time". Everyone needs that. Introverts more than extroverts. alone time is fine...

but what if you could have your alone time, but your life was free for others to glance over, like a book, or a detailed facebook page? why not?

I'm talking about the heightened paranoia (compared to the average person), about stuff like...

-masking your wifi signal

-not using google products cuz they collect your information

-not using facebook or highly controlling what is released on facebook (pictures info etc)

-always using secure encryption type browsing

-thinking other people will try to take advantage of you if you share your mind/life with them (whether its real life or online).

etc the list goes on.

i find all these tendencies to be overly protective of the self, predominantly are all introverts. Of course there are some introverts that don't care as much, but if I had to chart out how uncomfortable they are with having their mind pried open for all to see... I can guarantee introverts will rate higher than extroverts.

as for small talk, i understand the hindrance behind having to act all nice and do the "hi how are you?" stuff...
but think about it... why does it bother you so much that you don't even wanna put the effort.. the small effort to talk to "someone else"... other than yourself. It's because you view that someone else as separate from you. You view yourself as an independent agent more so than others.

why don't you view strangers or others as... just other ants in the same colony you live in? other cells in what makes up the entirety of human civilization? the same as you. no different. not separate.

like you said yourself... you'd rather think about how to plan YOUR day, how to solve an issue YOURE having... you don't wanna waste "your" time.

Why aren't you trying to solve an issue someone else is having or planning someone elses day? why is it your time? and not our time? why not everyone's time?

but you don't benefit from it so you choose not to do it? because "you effort/time" is being "wasted".

you don't see how this leads back to ego? your intrinsic values are to place the self first.

your time is "being wasted" but the value is being added onto someone else that appreciates it... so why with hold it? at the end of the day, it's a zero sum game. what you give, someone else will take, it still adds up to 100%.

i mean we're not talking about sacrificing yourself for some bum on the street. we're talking about simple gestures.

as someone introvert dominant, thoughts and perceptions emanate from the "self".. outwards. that alone pushes the ego higher up than others already... do you guys not agree?

the fact that you identify yourself as independent kinda makes it more egotistical already right?

I mean i'm not shooting down introverts. introverts are needed etc. there's always a need for balance. ying yang, order chaos, extrovert introvert.

but i'm talking purely based on critical logic. introverts on average view themselves as a self, separate from others. not just physically, but mentally.

i mean how often do you judge things or analyze a scenario, and you think about where it places you on the map?

how often do you judge things on where it places others on the map... how often do you approach a scenario and just ignore the self, as if you didn't exist at all?

i always use this example:

in the future, cybernetics has enabled people to connect their minds at a near instantaneous level.
when two people are connected, they become one. Their memories and feelings and everything, are shared, as if you also lived as the other person. except not only two people are connected. millions are connected. the millions of people connect dictate the direction of the collective consciousness. You can sort of relate it to an ant colony or a hive of bees. Except everyone is a worker, and everyone is the queen at some level. when meeting another person connected, you can instantaneous identify with them as if you have lived their life, and they have lived your life. Their memories and your memories kind of become a blur, you remember who you were before, but after connecting, all memories and experiences after seem kind of a mix of everyone in the collectives.

you are able to unplug, but majority of people don't. it would feel like a human becoming an ape again in terms of intellectual and awareness level.

does this idea appeal to you? if so, why? if not, why?


(like i said, im not knocking down introversion, i'm just analyzing it critically. and where it stands on terms of ego... I just think intrinsically, introversion is prone to more egotistical tenancies, looking after the self, separating the self from others. on the flip side, extroversions intrinsic fault is the need to get validation from others, but again, is that not the ego working at some level??? the self vs others... compared to validating through others...)

Taken from google definition, your definition of ego is

The part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity

I think what the OP's is trying to get at is

an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others

and

A person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance

But you have a very interesting point of view on ego. Very interesting to read.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

well it all leads down to... personal identity. anytime you identify yourself as "self" vs "others" or "outside"... that's ego is it not?

my understanding of ego was always, anything that relates to identifying yourself as... self... vs the rest of existence.

here we go... urbandictionary LOL
the first entry is exactly how i define ego

1. ego
The part of you that defines itself as a personality, separates itself from the outside world, and considers itself (read: you) a separate entity from the rest of nature and the cosmos. Perhaps necessary for survival in some evolutionary bygone, in modern times it leads only to (albeit often disguised) misanthropic beliefs and delusion.

In short, "I."

as for feeling superior to others or feeling the need for self importance...
you have to look beyond those feelings to as WHY you feel that way.

I mean, I wont hesitate to say I feel more important and superior to some beggar in some slum somewhere. But I realise that's just my ego speaking. Reality is, I'm no more important than any other atom in existence if looking at it from a grand cosmic scale... of all existence, no one thing is more important than another.

Of course if we look at a different scenario... say hiring a person to do a job, would you hire a junkie or a hardworker? the hard worker is obviously superior and more important... but ONLY in that closed loop. only in that small bubble... which the job is being reviewed by someone with an ego... the company is owned by someone with an ego. ego's only matter when they're enclosed in a circle which is controlled by another ego.
but if you look at the larger scales, where ego is dissolved (or appears to be from our small perspective)... really individuals, egos, personalities, don't matter. it's all an illusion we brought upon ourselves.

so really, ego matters only depending on your end game goal. if your perspective of life is limited only to your own limited time on this earth and the interactions with the people around you... or if you're thinking beyond that, beyond life, beyond humans.

at the end of the day, it's impossible to be egoless. but like i said before... the least we can do is be aware of it and how it affects the course of our actions.

[bcrdukes]

Just find balance. It's all you need. Don't sweat the small stuff. Live life. Be happy and eat organic. Case closed. Dismissed.

[guddagudd]

Posted via RS Mobile

[guddagudd]

Bcrdukes, here I thought you were actually going to contribute positively towards the topic, and you once again try to bring in your hipster propaganda.
Posted via RS Mobile

[bcrdukes]

Man, and all I wanted to do was be nice and offer some genuine advice.

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

well it all leads down to... personal identity. anytime you identify yourself as "self" vs "others" or "outside"... that's ego is it not?

my understanding of ego was always, anything that relates to identifying yourself as... self... vs the rest of existence.

here we go... urbandictionary LOL
the first entry is exactly how i define ego


as for feeling superior to others or feeling the need for self importance...
you have to look beyond those feelings to as WHY you feel that way.

I mean, I wont hesitate to say I feel more important and superior to some beggar in some slum somewhere. But I realise that's just my ego speaking. Reality is, I'm no more important than any other atom in existence if looking at it from a grand cosmic scale... of all existence, no one thing is more important than another.

Of course if we look at a different scenario... say hiring a person to do a job, would you hire a junkie or a hardworker? the hard worker is obviously superior and more important... but ONLY in that closed loop. only in that small bubble... which the job is being reviewed by someone with an ego... the company is owned by someone with an ego. ego's only matter when they're enclosed in a circle which is controlled by another ego.
but if you look at the larger scales, where ego is dissolved (or appears to be from our small perspective)... really individuals, egos, personalities, don't matter. it's all an illusion we brought upon ourselves.

so really, ego matters only depending on your end game goal. if your perspective of life is limited only to your own limited time on this earth and the interactions with the people around you... or if you're thinking beyond that, beyond life, beyond humans.

at the end of the day, it's impossible to be egoless. but like i said before... the least we can do is be aware of it and how it affects the course of our actions.

the keyword in the description i provided was

an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others

that is probably the topic of this thread.

but yes, no one is egoless. so to OP, don't feel like you're abnormal. everyone has a barrier.

[waddy41]

This thread helped, as I've been doing some introspective theoretical self reflection lately

Thanks Ulic Qel-Droma

[guurl]

how much shrooms did you do?!?!?1

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

where did the OP go, he hasn't posted since feb LOL.

I'm having a trip reading what I wrote.

i hope he didn't have some sorta existential crisis ...lol...?

[guddagudd]

Peace and love.

[dlo]

LOL good bump