REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2013, 10:25 PM   #51
Everyone wants a piece of R S...
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 395
Thanked 613 Times in 116 Posts
Transit workers gives the OK to ride 'free'... No, Im baller and pay for it at the next stop.
Advertisement
dvst8 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-27-2013, 10:45 PM   #52
Banned (ABWS)?
 
AzNightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 16,921
Thanked 2,134 Times in 1,028 Posts
Did the first group of transit workers say you can ride for free? or ride to the next station for free? It makes a big difference.

Although given that the transit cops cancelled your ticket, it's as if "ride for free" was the benefit you were given,
or the cops were just being nice to not ticket you for the other stations you passed when you could have purchased a ticket.
__________________
__________________________________________________
Last edited by AzNightmare; Today at 10:09 AM
AzNightmare is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 10:48 PM   #53
My homepage has been set to RS
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,402
Thanked 900 Times in 387 Posts
FYI, it's your responsibility to get off at the next stop and buy your ticket. Given that you were checked later on in the trip you deserved those tickets.
__________________
FOR SALE: 14'' MR2 MK1 wheels with 90% rubber $130, FD RX7 Transmission $200, Hitch Mount Snowboard/Ski rack w/ THULE clamps, locks $200. PM me for details!

If this is still in my sig, it's still avail.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 10:49 PM   #54
Hypa owned my ass at least once
 
Noir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Japan
Posts: 6,747
Thanked 1,314 Times in 540 Posts
Uuhhhhh, the transit police voided the ticket when they received confirmation that the ticket machine was out of order.


Basically, the OP is complaining that he did not get his apology and is claiming the Transit Police gave him attitude.


Oh the humanity
Noir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 10:52 PM   #55
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
parm104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,779
Thanked 2,599 Times in 672 Posts
I'm sure glad we have a bunch of honest-abes in this forum. I'll sleep a little better tonight knowing the city won't have people taking free-rides even after they were given the go-ahead to do so by the very authority that tickets fare-evaders.

To be honest, the idea of stopping at the next station, getting out of the train, going downstairs to get a ticket for the rest of the trip, didn't even come to my mind until someone mentioned it here. What indication did JPark have that would make him believe that he needed to get off at the next station and still purchase a ticket for the rest of the trip. Based on his story, he was advised to not worry about the ticket and to just hop on the train by transit authority.

The idea of people paying for something at the next viable chance when they've already been given a free pass is absurd. This isn't like you're paying your friend back who spotted you for a movie...we're talking about paying a fare to ride public transportation.

Sure, OP's thread may be an over-reaction to a situation since his ticket was voided but to suggest that anybody would've gotten off at the next station to pay for the fare is ridiculous.

Transit police are on scene to ensure they catch fare-evaders and to maintain an efficient transit system. If they required OP to purchase a ticket at the next station, they should have instructed him to do so than simply saying "dont worry and proceed." A "we'll let you get on the train now but it's your responsibility to purchase a ticket at the next stop" would've been the appropriate thing to do for the original transit officer. The system was down at no fault of his own and OP was given the impression, as any reasonable person would've been given, that he was given a pass because there was no way of him purchasing a ticket at that station. It's simple. Perhaps some of you are frequent-public-transit users and from experience have realized that you need to purchase a ticket at the next stop; but the average person would've conducted themselves in the same manner as OP (besides creating this thread.)
__________________
Clicky Clicky For my Feedback

Last edited by parm104; 10-27-2013 at 10:57 PM.
parm104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:06 PM   #56
RS Veteran
 
Spidey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 8,773
Thanked 1,264 Times in 617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 View Post
I'm sure glad we have a bunch of honest-abes in this forum. I'll sleep a little better tonight knowing the city won't have people taking free-rides even after they were given the go-ahead to do so by the very authority that tickets fare-evaders.

To be honest, the idea of stopping at the next station, getting out of the train, going downstairs to get a ticket for the rest of the trip, didn't even come to my mind until someone mentioned it here. What indication did JPark have that would make him believe that he needed to get off at the next station and still purchase a ticket for the rest of the trip. Based on his story, he was advised to not worry about the ticket and to just hop on the train by transit authority.

The idea of people paying for something at the next viable chance when they've already been given a free pass is absurd. This isn't like you're paying your friend back who spotted you for a movie...we're talking about paying a fare to ride public transportation.

Sure, OP's thread may be an over-reaction to a situation since his ticket was voided but to suggest that anybody would've gotten off at the next station to pay for the fare is ridiculous.

Transit police are on scene to ensure they catch fare-evaders and to maintain an efficient transit system. If they required OP to purchase a ticket at the next station, they should have instructed him to do so than simply saying "dont worry and proceed." A "we'll let you get on the train now but it's your responsibility to purchase a ticket at the next stop" would've been the appropriate thing to do for the original transit officer. The system was down at no fault of his own and OP was given the impression, as any reasonable person would've been given, that he was given a pass because there was no way of him purchasing a ticket at that station. It's simple. Perhaps some of you are frequent-public-transit users and from experience have realized that you need to purchase a ticket at the next stop; but the average person would've conducted themselves in the same manner as OP (besides creating this thread.)
that's if the officer believed OP, which they didn't, and i don't blame them because I am sure that excuse has been used 10000 times. On top of their dispatch advising them there were no machines out of order at their respective boarding. If the machine was down, and confirmed on scene, then yes, the officer should technically let OP ride and tell them to purchase a ticket at the next stop.
Spidey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:22 PM   #57
degenerate extraordinaire
 
Ikkaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: missing rmd
Posts: 6,227
Thanked 489 Times in 233 Posts
Last time there was a broken machine or simply the station had too many people, they told us to just buy a ticket when we get off. Maybe it has been too long since I've used transit, but never once was I instructed to purchase one at the next stop.

Was it written anywhere to do so, or is this just one of those 'oh you're stupid because you couldn't think of it' type deal? Although I can see where both parties are coming from, this is just a unfortunate series of events.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by 97ITR
He would step out of his freshly downtown autospa detailed 996 C4s, check out his own reflection in the driverside window out of habit, take off his brand new limited edition D&G aviator sunglasses so the mf can see the fury in his eyes, sashay over to the other guy and then threaten to insert his black leather Savatore Ferragamo loafers into the guys rear-end.
Ikkaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:23 PM   #58
Orgasm Donor & Alatar owned my ass twice!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 16,353
Thanked 5,619 Times in 2,304 Posts
ive seen transit police argue with some girl saying bus driver told her she didn't have to worry about the bus fare but strolled into the skytrain without paying for the fare and got caught

better safe than sorry...not saying I wouldn't have done anything different than OP but if you wanna gamble then when you get caught you cant make a big deal out of it
__________________
My BST Feedback
twitchyzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:24 PM   #59
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
parm104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,779
Thanked 2,599 Times in 672 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 View Post
If they required OP to purchase a ticket at the next station, they should have instructed him to do so than simply saying "dont worry and proceed."
Quote:
A "we'll let you get on the train now but it's your responsibility to purchase a ticket at the next stop" would've been the appropriate thing to do for the original transit officer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey View Post
that's if the officer believed OP, which they didn't, and i don't blame them because I am sure that excuse has been used 10000 times. On top of their dispatch advising them there were no machines out of order at their respective boarding. If the machine was down, and confirmed on scene, then yes, the officer should technically let OP ride and tell them to purchase a ticket at the next stop.
Spidey...the logical assumption would've been that I was referring to the FIRST transit officer that told him to not worry about it...Your notion of whether the officers believed JPark's story is irrelevant because I don't contest the idea of ticketing a fare-evader. I do however, as mentioned above, contest the notion that the original transit officer thought it was okay to give him a pass and not instruct him to purchase a ticket at the next station.

Without stretching this too far, the first transit officer's actions could almost fit the idea of entrapment. He induced JPark to get on the train and not worry about the ticket. He was in a position of authority and a reasonable person would've presumed that with his transit authority, he was given good advice to help both the transit system and the passenger.
__________________
Clicky Clicky For my Feedback

Last edited by parm104; 10-27-2013 at 11:30 PM.
parm104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:28 PM   #60
private modder
 
Eff-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Shore
Posts: 6,054
Thanked 1,641 Times in 422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey View Post
that's if the officer believed OP, which they didn't, and i don't blame them because I am sure that excuse has been used 10000 times. On top of their dispatch advising them there were no machines out of order at their respective boarding.
Fair enough. But the officer should have then ackknowledeged they errored by apologizing to the OP for not believing him earlier when he was clearly telling the truth. Cancelling the ticket is the LEAST they could have done. A simple "you were right, we were wrong" or dare I say "we're sorry for the inconvenience" and this thread would have never appeared.
Eff-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-27-2013, 11:31 PM   #61
My homepage has been set to RS
 
trancehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,362
Thanked 742 Times in 363 Posts
this problem is a result of a system (both technical and personel) breakdown and failure.

a public system should be more resilient to bullshit like this, so we dont have these instances occurring. transportation is the backbone of any economy, so its damn important. it should be acted on and continually improved based on feedback like this.

As for the cops, yeah they probably seen enough bullshit to not give a flying fuck really anymore. Given with the amount of scumbags they deal with, its understandable.

anyways, dont feel too bad jPark. this is just another bullshit issue with vancouver
bikelanes, expensive artwork, liquor laws(at all fucking levels). whatever man. these are issues that a city which has been on the international stage many times definitely needs to overcome

you did your own detective work which was good. and u got out of the ticket. its all good man
__________________
Quote:

[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
trancehead is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-27-2013, 11:34 PM   #62
private modder
 
Eff-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Shore
Posts: 6,054
Thanked 1,641 Times in 422 Posts
Anyone who says OP should have disputed the ticket through the usual channels has clearly never done that before. The chances of dismissal are almost always zero. It's a written dispute through an arbitrator. All they look at is either:

You had proof of payment or you didn't.
The ticket was filled out incorrectly

Best thing OP did was return back to the original station to try and find proof. Hence why his night was wrecked and I'd be upset too.

Only thing different I would have done is when the staff member originally said I could go ahead without paying, I would have asked them right there "ok but what happens if I get checked for a fare payment later on". The answer would have prevented this whole thing most likely.
Eff-1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:56 PM   #63
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
meme405's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,625
Thanked 7,179 Times in 2,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eff-1 View Post
Anyone who says OP should have disputed the ticket through the usual channels has clearly never done that before. The chances of dismissal are almost always zero. It's a written dispute through an arbitrator. All they look at is either:

You had proof of payment or you didn't.
The ticket was filled out incorrectly

Best thing OP did was return back to the original station to try and find proof. Hence why his night was wrecked and I'd be upset too.

Only thing different I would have done is when the staff member originally said I could go ahead without paying, I would have asked them right there "ok but what happens if I get checked for a fare payment later on". The answer would have prevented this whole thing most likely.
Your right, I havnt been through the system for this matter, and I can imagine how terrible it could be.

And thats the problem, any reasonable person could determine what JPark is saying is the truth a 100 different ways. But instead they focus on irrelevant bullshit when this gets disputed.

Either way it comes down to this:

Translink can complain about the fare-evaders and all that BS until the cows come home, but realistically if they can't keep at least one damn machine functioning at each station that's their damn problem.
__________________

Barney Fucking Purple FX35
Brianna - 2008 FX35 - Build Thread
meme405 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
This post FAILED by:
Old 10-27-2013, 11:59 PM   #64
Cant Stop Modding Fat Cars w/ Cheap Pasts!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 23,046
Thanked 9,234 Times in 3,293 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 View Post
Transit police are on scene to ensure they catch fare-evaders and to maintain an efficient transit system. If they required OP to purchase a ticket at the next station, they should have instructed him to do so than simply saying "dont worry and proceed." A "we'll let you get on the train now but it's your responsibility to purchase a ticket at the next stop" would've been the appropriate thing to do for the original transit officer. The system was down at no fault of his own and OP was given the impression, as any reasonable person would've been given, that he was given a pass because there was no way of him purchasing a ticket at that station. It's simple.
To be fair to those who first suggested stopping at the next stop and picking up a ticket, those posters didn't know that jpark was given the okay to ride the train, that point wasn't in the op. it was edited for clarity im assuming by jpark later on (he didn't originally make that point until a few comments down)
StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-28-2013, 12:08 AM   #65
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
parm104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,779
Thanked 2,599 Times in 672 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
To be fair to those who first suggested stopping at the next stop and picking up a ticket, those posters didn't know that jpark was given the okay to ride the train, that point wasn't in the op. it was edited for clarity im assuming by jpark later on (he didn't originally make that point until a few comments down)
Thanks for getting me up to speed. I didn't realize that. I assumed that their responses had taken into consideration that he was given a free ride.
__________________
Clicky Clicky For my Feedback
parm104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 01:17 AM   #66
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 1,488
Thanked 1,499 Times in 415 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpark View Post
There was not much we could do, so we decided to just hop on to the skytrain (we asked one of the transit workers there, he told us to dont worry and proceed)
for everybody's info, if this ever happens again, tell them to write you a "fare" before you hop on board. i mean if its ok anyways, i don't see why they wouldn't write one up for you. and to all those that thinks its ok and should buy one at the end at wherever you're stopping, do yourself a favor and just buy it at the next stop. it would really save you a world of trouble. i mean, who in the right mind would buy a ticket at their stop when they already rode the system and haven't got caught.

the odds are, if you get caught within one stop, its faster to go back and check. the techs that fixes these machines aren't that fast
SoNaRWaVe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 08:13 AM   #67
RS Veteran
 
Spidey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 8,773
Thanked 1,264 Times in 617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 View Post
Spidey...the logical assumption would've been that I was referring to the FIRST transit officer that told him to not worry about it...Your notion of whether the officers believed JPark's story is irrelevant because I don't contest the idea of ticketing a fare-evader. I do however, as mentioned above, contest the notion that the original transit officer thought it was okay to give him a pass and not instruct him to purchase a ticket at the next station.

Without stretching this too far, the first transit officer's actions could almost fit the idea of entrapment. He induced JPark to get on the train and not worry about the ticket. He was in a position of authority and a reasonable person would've presumed that with his transit authority, he was given good advice to help both the transit system and the passenger.
the first employee OP ran into was the transit security/worker, not a Transit Police officer. But I am still questioning whether or if at all anyone else got caught along with OP, who obviously had issues buying tickets if the machines were broken.....
Spidey is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-28-2013, 08:23 AM   #68
RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
 
Anjew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 910
Thanked 236 Times in 101 Posts
The real issue is Translink. How the hell could they let it get to the point that ALL the machines at a station go down at once?

I had to wake up early on my day off last week to drive my wife to work because the skytrain broke down again. f translink.
Anjew is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-28-2013, 09:19 AM   #69
Banned By Establishment
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: bedroom
Posts: 3,111
Thanked 3,491 Times in 1,176 Posts
There are flaws with any system...but overall, they are few and far between and usually handled swiftly.


I was on my way to SFU once and my purse was stolen when switching at Columbia (along with my U-Pass). I was writing a final, so I needed to keep going. At Braid we ticked checked and asked to get off the train...I explained everything, but still was issued a ticket. The officer said that once I had "proof" my purse was stolen, the ticket would be waive. I did just that.

Some times, if you have an honest and legitimate story to go along with why you don't have a ticket, it is better to contest it rather than fight with the officer on site.
dinosaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:22 AM   #70
dlo
Los Bastardo owned my ass at least once
 
dlo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver
Posts: 6,040
Thanked 7,900 Times in 1,421 Posts
Man fucc da polec


Jokes aside, eh.. It happens, buy a tix next stop just to be safe
Posted via RS Mobile
dlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:30 AM   #71
Banned By Establishment
 
Gridlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New West
Posts: 3,998
Thanked 2,982 Times in 1,135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlo View Post
Man fucc da polec


Jokes aside, eh.. It happens, buy a tix next stop just to be safe
Posted via RS Mobile
OR

when you see da police(when you are riding without a ticket), get the fuck off da train(and hop on the next one without constabulary)!
Gridlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #72
CRS
ninja edits your posts without your knowledge
 
CRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,365
Thanked 5,490 Times in 1,481 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinosaur View Post
There are flaws with any system...but overall, they are few and far between and usually handled swiftly.


I was on my way to SFU once and my purse was stolen when switching at Columbia (along with my U-Pass). I was writing a final, so I needed to keep going. At Braid we ticked checked and asked to get off the train...I explained everything, but still was issued a ticket. The officer said that once I had "proof" my purse was stolen, the ticket would be waive. I did just that.

Some times, if you have an honest and legitimate story to go along with why you don't have a ticket, it is better to contest it rather than fight with the officer on site.
Best advice of this thread.

Why fight the officer on their playground where they are king? If you're looking to fight it, you may as well do it on your accord in court. Sure it may take up more time but it's the only venue where you're not guaranteed to lose.
CRS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:49 AM   #73
WOAH...shut the music off...
 
GLOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,802
Thanked 4,708 Times in 1,890 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
OR

when you see da police(when you are riding without a ticket), get the fuck off da train(and hop on the next one without constabulary)!
an old coworker did this before...we're by the door and i'm leaning against the window talking to him all casually...he's looking all nervous looking over my shoulder and i'm wondering wtf is he looking at...when the transit guys walk in to the door as they're closing on the other side of the train he narrowly slips through the doors we're by just as they're closing in mid conversation...i stare at him as the train's leaving like WTF just happened...next day he tells me he didn't pay for fare
__________________
Feedback
http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?t=611711

Quote:
Greenstoner
1 rat shit ruins the whole congee
Quote:
[04-06, 11:34]radiomanI'm doing happy hour with bj#3 today
[07-04, 10:27]radiomani need just the tip
[22-12, 08:51]mellomandidnt think and went in straight..scrapped like a bitch
[17-09, 12:07]FastAnna glowjob
[17-09, 12:08]FastAnna I like dat

GLOW is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-28-2013, 12:03 PM   #74
WOAH...shut the music off...
 
GLOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,802
Thanked 4,708 Times in 1,890 Posts
oh i forgot to mention that he caught the next train...and the transit police had gotten off on the next stop and got back on his train and talked to him

he talked himself out of the ticket though...it helps when you have an aussie accent and you're a "visitor" and got "lost & confused" with the transit system
__________________
Feedback
http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?t=611711

Quote:
Greenstoner
1 rat shit ruins the whole congee
Quote:
[04-06, 11:34]radiomanI'm doing happy hour with bj#3 today
[07-04, 10:27]radiomani need just the tip
[22-12, 08:51]mellomandidnt think and went in straight..scrapped like a bitch
[17-09, 12:07]FastAnna glowjob
[17-09, 12:08]FastAnna I like dat

GLOW is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 10-28-2013, 12:53 PM   #75
My homepage has been set to RS
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,402
Thanked 900 Times in 387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 View Post
I'm sure glad we have a bunch of honest-abes in this forum. I'll sleep a little better tonight knowing the city won't have people taking free-rides even after they were given the go-ahead to do so by the very authority that tickets fare-evaders.
........................

The idea of people paying for something at the next viable chance when they've already been given a free pass is absurd.
I always pay for my tickets

...............


And it's not that they got a "free pass" they got the OK to go to the next stop to buy a ticket. I know people who have had this problem before and the transit cops said it's your responsibility to get off and buy a ticket at the next stop. You are never given the ok to ride free for the entire length.
__________________
FOR SALE: 14'' MR2 MK1 wheels with 90% rubber $130, FD RX7 Transmission $200, Hitch Mount Snowboard/Ski rack w/ THULE clamps, locks $200. PM me for details!

If this is still in my sig, it's still avail.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net