REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Soundy · 11-13-2013, 07:47 PM

Alright, completed inspection today on the new place we're buying... only a few minor concerns, which will be covered by the sellers. One I have a question about:

There's a small amount of dampness at the bottom corner of one outside basement wall. On the outside is a short pair of concrete steps. then a sidewalk, and a hole in the sidewalk right against the house where a gate post used to be.

Owner says they had a small leak into the basement there about three years ago, but thought they'd fixed it by sealing the siding along the steps. To me, it looks like a very small seepage over a long-ish period (tack strip on the carpet is rotted out, but the carpet itself is barely damp).

The inspector suspects a small crack in the foundation and figures the best course is to pull up the sidewalk, dig down the wall, seal the crack from the outside, then back-fill and replace the sidewalk.

Now the seller will give us either a credit back to cover the cost, or take the repair off the total selling price, but I have to come up with at least a rough estimate. Naturally a more accurate estimate will require some level of on-site inspection, but I'm trying to think of just a ROUGH idea of what this could cost. It's a tight space between the house and hedge, so it will probably have to be dug down by hand... the foundation wall would appear to be about 4-5 feet high, from footing to grade.

Anyone care to speculate what sort of cost might be involved here? And can anyone suggest somebody good to do the work (house is in east Abbotsford)?

MindBomber · 11-13-2013, 08:04 PM

I can't offer a price estimate, but congrats on the purchase Soundy, East Abbotsford is a nice area. I've enjoyed living here for several years. Great parks and a lovely community spirit, especially in the summer months.

nabs · 11-13-2013, 08:38 PM

I would say it is about $3k to $3.5k worth of work minimum. To get it done by a contractor.

Yourself I would say about $1500 and a good weekend.

You would need to get the concrete cut and removed from there. Dig by hand (shovel) to grade for 5ft deep you would need to go 5ft by 3ft to be able to fit someone in there to work, get in/out (really doesn't take as long you think it would). you need a foundation patch with mesh first, then tar seal along the crack, black seal that you paint/cake on around the crack area, dimple board, then a hilti to secure the dimple board in place (some ppl just use a hammer and muscle lol), this acts as a water/vapour barier from out to in (may as well do it all right). Then backfill, pack the ground, then concrete over it again, frame your path, frame your steps and pour in the concrete.

This is just my estimation, I have done this before when I used to work in construction. In no way is this absolutely accurate. just my 2 cents.

I would absolutely call out a contractor onto the site, most of them give free estimations. Do your research. Use http://www.angieslist.com/

Good Luck! and Congrats!

MindBomber · 11-13-2013, 09:01 PM

As someone with six years experience in construction, including five years generating leads and estimating, I wouldn't advise anyone use Angie's List | Find a Local Business, Ratings, Reviews, Deals |. It's useless, whether you're a consumer or professional, it's better to go back to the basics. I'm not alone, Consumer Reports and others agree, it's not a good tool. I would advice consumers contact a general contractor and ask whether they're able to offer a referral, or go through Craigslist and vet them through the typical basic process (call a reference, check for insurance).

Soundy · 11-13-2013, 09:33 PM

Thanks guys... like I said, just looking at ballpark right now - our realtor is bugging us because the seller's realtor is bugging them because they want to get everything completed, so they're more than willing to pay for it. Definitely not doing it myself if someone else is paying

Of course, it's a bit of a crap shoot because they could dig it up and find even more wrong, but I'm sure our realtor will have something in place for that... ATM they just want to know about what we're looking at.

Honestly, I was looking at digging down in this same area anyway to potentially add a door to the basement, since the ONLY access right now is the stairs down from the kitchen. This area of the basement is to be my office/testbench/workspace and hauling stuff up and down the long way around is NOT appealing... if I can get someone to work in a door estimate along with the repair (I'd pay the extra for that, of course), I'm a step ahead

melloman · 11-14-2013, 09:47 AM

If you want an entry.. Easily double nabs price of $3.5k.

As you'll need to decide if you want concrete or wooden stairs. You'll need a drain in the landing. Handrails up top. And 3x more labour in digging (which you will want a mini-excavator for as digging by hand will definitely be a nice big task.)

Let alone the exterior door, header above door, framing, materials, etc.

Soundy · 11-14-2013, 10:24 AM

Yeah, the door is not gonna be an immediate thing, I don't think... might look to do that for future, but not right now.

blkgsr · 11-14-2013, 07:37 PM

$5000 to be safe

$500 to remove steps (renting a compressor and air gun) - 1 day
$1000+ to dig and excavate, and backfill (dig it yourself for free, but add tamper rental)
$600 for waterproofing
$500 to form new stairs
$300+ concrete (that would be a small stairs, add more for more sidewalk etc)
$300 to place stairs
+++

this is really rough and dirty pricing

catalin · 11-14-2013, 08:41 PM

Soundy, you should have ran their hose for a while in that area and see if anything makes it in there, and how much. That will tell you how bad the leak is, if there is one.

At this point you're the one holding the money. So come up with a price and double it.. then tell them to take that off the price. Because in the end, no matter what you're quoted, you're likely to spend more.

Soundy · 11-14-2013, 10:42 PM

Yeah, we took a closer look today, there's not enough room there to do a proper stairwell, so that idea is out - it's just gonna be a repair. Lucked out and found the crack with the very first hole we cut in the drywall: goes from within a couple inches of the top, to about a foot from the bottom, and you can see where the water ingress starts about a foot down the vapour barrier. Looks like my estimation was correct, that it's been a very slow leak over a fair period of time.

After a closer look, Dad's assessment matched those above, figured around $3k if we got a guy with a Bobcat backhoe to dig it up and did some of it ourselves, up to about $3.5k if someone else did ALL of it.

We figured worst case, it might need a little structural patching once we get down there, and the carpet may need to be redone, and got them to agree to $5k. They weren't too happy about it, but our realtor talked them into it

I MIGHT remove the existing two steps down and replace them with wood, to avoid any future chance of water seeping between the steps and siding... but no steps will need to be removed to do the repair, only a section of sidewalk.

Will have some pics later.

Thanks, guys

Soundy · 11-26-2013, 09:02 AM

2013-11-14 14.45.31.jpg

2013-11-14 15.09.41.jpg

So the steps MAY need to come out to make room to work... there's a big crack all the way across the sidewalk halfway to the chimney though, which makes a good spot to stop digging

Thinking at this point in the season, I'll probably apply a wicking patch to the inside and run a blower in that corner for a while to make sure it's all dry, and then re-insulate and close the wall up... then in the spring we can do the outside work.

catalin · 11-27-2013, 05:05 AM

Doesn't look like the walls were built right at all. Somebody wasn't watching Holmes on Homes.
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fliptuner · 11-28-2013, 01:24 AM

Is that the low point of the concrete pad? If so, you'll want to re-grade it, to slope away from the house. I also don't like how the bottom course of siding is so close to the ground.

If you're really lucky, you might be able to get away with getting the crack drilled and injected with epoxy.

Soundy · 11-28-2013, 08:15 AM

The sidewalk does slope away from the wall there - slightly. Not sure yet how far the foundation wall comes up above the ground level - we'll find that out once we dig down.

The one other issue is a post hole in the sidewalk, right against the wall, at the bottom of the stairs - apparently there was a gate there at the bottom of the steps at some point that was removed, and the hole left, so that obviously was funnelling some water down at that point. Naturally, that will get fixed when the sidewalk is re-done.

Lomac · 11-28-2013, 05:07 PM

What's with that wiring on the outside wall?

And shouldn't the studs be rotated 90*?

MindBomber · 11-28-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lomac

And shouldn't the studs be rotated 90*?

No, building code allows studs to be parallel rather than perpendicular to the foundation wall in basements in most jurisdictions. It's a common approach.

fliptuner · 11-28-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindBomber

No, building code allows studs to be parallel rather than perpendicular to the foundation wall in basements in most jurisdictions. It's a common approach.

The more you know...

So it's essentially just a nailer for the drywall? At least it's not touching the foundation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lomac

What's with that wiring on the outside wall?

Cable, internet, phone.

Soundy, have you done some research on epoxy injection and if it's a viable solution?

MindBomber · 11-28-2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE BOY

The more you know...

So it's essentially just a nailer for the drywall? At least it's not touching the foundation.

Yup. It's a nailing surface with 23" outside spacing for insulation batts.

It can touch the foundation wall through a sill gasket, but rigid board insulation is then required.

Soundy · 11-28-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICE BOY

The more you know...

So it's essentially just a nailer for the drywall? At least it's not touching the foundation.

Yep, exactly. There's vapour barrier on the inside of the concrete as well - Dad noted that while it's not done that way now, it was common in the 80s when this house was built - one of those code things that changes now and then "just because".

In fact, the only thing Dad noted that seemed a little off to him was that the outside wall (on top of the foundation) was 2x6 rather than 2x8 - minimal, but still within code for the time it was built.

Quote:

Cable, internet, phone.

Yeah, I think some of those are cable and some are satellite, as there's a dish on the front corner of the garage there. Dunno if they'll be leaving that behind, but I don't have any sat receiver gear anyway... might use it for cameras

Quote:

Soundy, have you done some research on epoxy injection and if it's a viable solution?

Dad had mentioned something like that - said it's a liquid you put on the crack on the inside and it wicks its way into the crack and seals it up. Thinking I'll do that on the inside when we first move in, so I can close up the wall... then in the spring, I still want to dig down to make sure there's no worse damage on the outside, and to confirm there's not something else causing it, like a tree root. No sense patching the inside if it's just going to get worse because of something else.

Plus, it seems to me an inside patch, no matter how much it gets into the crack, will still leave room for water to creep in from the outside, and eventually it will be a problem again... since they're giving us money back to deal with this properly, I figure, might as well do it properly rather than risk it in the future.