I wonder how this would of turned out had they of been in a modern vehicle with modern ESC and other safety systems...

I can spot two reasons for this accident (and others) occuring.

- We don't have any mandatory driver's training courses, therefore most drivers haven't a clue what to do when something goes wrong.

- Poor road conditions, and poorer judgement, which ties into my first point.


I would like to see mandatory vehicle control courses being run before licenses are handed out willy nilly. No amount of technology is going to save someone who does not know what to do.

I'd wager that I'm safer in my 87 VW with manual everything than the next "normal" guy with "Ultra nano technology traction control agility assist", and it all comes down to what you know. Luckily my driver's training was free in the form of a dad that knows how to drive.

Looks like a corner were a driver could be coming into way too fast and basically lose control especially if you're driving a SUV or Van. And it looks a stretch of road were a a concrete barrier would prevent accidents like this one.

I would really like to know if they hit ice, or just lost control. If they hit ice, SUV/Van/750i/UGR Gallardo etc, they were hitting that truck.

Yeah..... the problem though is everyone thinks that. Ask someone if they are a good driver that knows their limits and see how many say no. As I said though, all it takes is one mistake. I've fucked up before and popped my car in a ditch in my lifetime, all it takes is some bad luck and its on a different section of road on an opposite bend and I'm in oncoming traffic in front of a truck coming at me at 100km/h. It's a simple fact of shit happens, and it did.

I remember reading a study where 90+% of people said they were better drivers than everyone else. Over confidence can be a VERY dangerous thing.

And let's not forget, while 100km/h may give you "X" seconds to react to a STATIONARY obstacle appearing in front of you... if the obstacle is oncoming at another 100km/h, you now have "X/2" seconds to react (assuming the other driver does nothing).

In a sharp, blind corner like we're talking about here, even if you WERE able to regain control your vehicle, there's a good chance you'd barely have time to even register the oncoming truck, nevermind react to it. I don't care how much training your have or how quickly you can respond to a situation, there's still a limitation on how fast the human sensory system can receive and process the event before that response even starts.

People just don't realize how fast something can happen. First time I ever "crashed" a car was my little GLC, on a snowy dirt road back home... came around a tight turn that I'd done a hundred times before, but this time my right front wheel managed to catch the snowbank in the ditch... and no amount of training would have helped from there: the snow literally sucked the wheel in, the back end came around, the left-rear wheel caught a rock in the road, and in less than two seconds beginning-to-end, the car was on its roof, my brother and I hanging by our seatbelts. We were probably doing 20km/h MAX when it happened, so no real harm done (dented roof, busted windshield), but once the snowbank had that wheel, our fate was set - I felt the wheel pull out of my hand, I felt the car go sideways, and then I felt the seatbelt digging into me.

What does that have to do with anything? and what are you implying by it...?

If that was unclear to you, then I'm sorry, you won't get it no matter how carefully I explain it.

I looked at the pics, its a '99-'04 Grand cherokee -- I have the same truck -- and yeah, it has absolutely nothing in terms of traction control

It's a RWD-bias AWD system, but when its poorly maintained the differentials can lock up and you can end up with a pretty dangerous SUV to drive -- RWD only, locked rear differential, and incredibly tail happy as a result under acceleration -- couple that with bad tires and its a SUV drift-machine (which is .. fun sometimes .. but a terrible combo if you're not expecting it).
At the same time, the front end is much heavier than than the rear, so under braking it understeers terribly.

I've put tons of miles on my jeep, roadtrips to whistler and back are almost routine, a few times to calgary and back in the middle of winter -- it comes down to knowing how to drive a car for the conditions. If you go into a corner too fast nothing will save you

I won't get what exactly? The fact that you make yet another bizarre statement, then cut people down because you have no logical explanation for them? Wow, you sure seemed normal in person... E-warrior?

Damn. Just a bad situation as a whole.

Yeah, the worst part being that the average driver won't pay any attention to it or even realize how dangerous it is until its too late

Exactly. Most drivers assume AWD/4WD means they are gods in inclement weather, we REALLY need a better driver education program. Something modelled after the German/Swiss system sounds good to me...

I actually did a series of defensive driving courses. Mine were done at Valley driving school, it was mandatory for the company I was working for before being able to drive their trucks off-site. They paid for the training and I thought it was a great idea so I took good advantage of it, and man am I glad I did.

I did regular car training which had portions of theory as well as a lot of seat time with one of their trainers. I also took their Unrestricted Class 4 program, which was also really good (the person who administered my driving test for my class 4 said I was very well equiped).

This all brings me to how I can testify that sometimes things just happen too quickly to allow even the most considerably skilled person to save themselves from an accident. Not even two months after I had finished these course, I ended up understeering my car into a sign post around a corner. Had I not had the training I think I would have been a lot worse off, as where I had crashed was quite a busy area and I did manage to atleast save myself from hitting someone else, but there was no way anything I could have done (after entering the intersection and realizing what was happening) would have stopped the accident entirely.

PS. No offense Yodamaster, but there are a lot of people who claim they got trained by the best driver they know, AKA their parents, and many of them are terrible. Not saying this is the case with you, but it happens and often.

I would much rather see mandatory training from a certified instructor before people are licensed to drive our roads. And none of the BS C-Lais and random CL ad posting mother fuckers who just give people a car to drive a teach them how to pass the test. I mean I want real instructors who are going to show people how to handle the fucking machine they are piloting. This means bringing them to a controlled environment and taking the car past its limits to see how it reacts, and training people on how to properly correct these reactions.

i agree

it's one thing to drive defensively and prevent shit from happening...but when shit's about to hit the fan and you only have a split second to make that life-or-death decision as a reflex reaction...most drivers will probably just freeze in shock...myself included.

there should be some cost-effective training in place that all drivers need to update every time you renew your license...and no autocross doesn't help with reflex decisions.

It's not the kind of car that driving skills will make up for the inherent crappiness of the chassis. ESC is not do all end all.

Thanks for the irrelevant clip

we're talking about a vehicle that is 2 generations older and 2 complete redesigns different

some updates:

http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2013/1...0&h=434&crop=1

Two UBC students killed in crash while driving to Whistler | The Ubyssey, UBC's official student newspaper

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1..._620/image.jpg

Two students injured in Sea to Sky collision expected to recover | The Ubyssey, UBC's official student newspaper

i don't claim to know anything about accident investigations, but the hood is intact on the cherokee which makes me think there was no frontal collision, but the driver's side rear is really messed up... how is this a head-on collision? :confused:

Do you think 2 generations back there was BETTER body control than the current generation?
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I wonder how this would of turned out had they obeyed the speed limit...

Wow that grand cherokee got fucked up from the picture. :heckno:
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As someone who was speeding and hit the guardrails on a rainy day on the s2s i seriously disagree with raising the speed limit. It's such a windy narrow road. 80km makes the most sense, it's not a straight stretch of highway like marine drive(which only has a relatively short and misunderstood section of 80km speed limit.) More police speed traps would make sense. Last 2 times i went to whistler i didn't see a single cop on the s2s.

And another thing, why is there no bi-yearly safety inspections for older cars in this province? Back in alberta if you sold your car it had to pass a safety inspection in order to get it registered. That takes so many shitboxes off the road.

looking at the image in more detail you can see they used 2x4's to prop up the rear axle on the left side because the wheel is completely gone.

the blankets covering the deceased in the driver and rear passenger on the left side :(