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Old 12-16-2013, 02:29 AM   #26
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if you make a 100k but have 90k in living expenses
That dude will be having a SHITLOAD of fun!!!

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vs if you have 20k and 10k in living expenses - who's poor / upper?
20k and 10k living expenses = a life of shit
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:31 AM   #27
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Quality of life worse than 25 years ago

Brb: brand new iphone, multiple flat screen tvs, pc, laptop, internet, expensive clothes, $7 daily coffees.

people didnt have ANY OF THAT 25 years ago. the money they made went to basic household needs and their family. only the well off people had toys. now a days everyone feels it is their entitlement to have all the latest toys. there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.
I know what you're saying, but maybe half a decade ago you're right. Nowadays... all those luxury items aren't really luxury anymore at today's prices.

Flat screen TV's are now $500 give or take. You can get 40 inchers Toshiba, or Sharp at more or less that price. Possibly even bigger if you go to cheaper brands like Dynamex, etc. I remember, tube TV's were more or less the same price back then when they were standard.

Laptop's arent in $2000 - $3000 range anymore. Economy laptops are now starting at $300. Decent ones at $500 - $800 and high powered ones at $1000 - $1500.

Internet is becoming a necessity nowadays and are quickly replacing cable/land line phones. Since one is replacing the other, I wouldn't personally consider it as additional expense.

Phones - as long as you're not always buying phones on release date, phone costs can be subsidized over a 2 or 3 year plan, making them virtually free, if not just probably $50 or so.




So yeah, I just wanted to counter the argument that just because a person may have a Flat Screen TV, internet, a laptop and a smart phone doesn't make them ballers.


(I won't argue about the $7 coffees though, but that can go under vices. Like how some people can justify X amounts of $ per month on cigarrettes, some on weed, some on alcohol, or simply just another car accessory)

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Old 12-16-2013, 09:51 AM   #28
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there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.


#YOLO
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:58 AM   #29
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Where did $7 coffee come from?

Grande Latte from bux is like 4.50?
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:01 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RRxtar View Post
Quality of life worse than 25 years ago

Brb: brand new iphone, multiple flat screen tvs, pc, laptop, internet, expensive clothes, $7 daily coffees.

people didnt have ANY OF THAT 25 years ago. the money they made went to basic household needs and their family. only the well off people had toys. now a days everyone feels it is their entitlement to have all the latest toys. there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.
You are so wrong if you think people didn't live "indulgent" lifestyles 25 years ago... and by people I do mean the vast majority of people.

Classic 70's Fads, Products and Toys

Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!

Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's

Spoiler!


Economy in The 1950s

I can't beleive people actually thanked your post, so naive. North Americans have been pissing money away for a long time, the only difference is now we exist in a globally competitive marketplace, and we are not exacty competitive. Nothing has changed with the mindsets of Americans, it's the external variables that are crushing our historically lush and easy way of life.

... + people are stupid and lazy.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #31
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You are so wrong if you think people didn't live "indulgent" lifestyles 25 years ago... and by people I do mean the vast majority of people.


Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!

Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's
Yeah, I'd agree with you here.

Most of you are far to young to remember the VCR fad of the late 70s early 80s. They were hundreds of dollars and seriously THE BEST THING EVER!!!! (we can record tv and watch it later?! OMGWTFBBQ!!).

Same with:
-Original nintendo
-Sega (SE-GA)
-Gameboy
-Car phones (I remember how cool my dad was with his car phone that came in this brief case thing, lol)
-Original mobile phones (ala Zack Morris)
-Commodore 64 with a zillion games (hello Summer Games?!)
-Walk-mans and later, disc mans
-Ghetto blasters
-Having TVs in every room

I can go on and on. Yeah this shit is worth pennies now, but back then this shit was EXPENSIVE and EVERYONE wanted them....which is the same with iPhones, iPads, flatscreens, etc....It is ALL the same shit, it just looks different.

Its all relative and to assume this has been the same for every generation is naive.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo View Post
You are so wrong if you think people didn't live "indulgent" lifestyles 25 years ago... and by people I do mean the vast majority of people.

Classic 70's Fads, Products and Toys

Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!

Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's

Spoiler!


Economy in The 1950s

I can't beleive people actually thanked your post, so naive. North Americans have been pissing money away for a long time, the only difference is now we exist in a globally competitive marketplace, and we are not exacty competitive. Nothing has changed with the mindsets of Americans, it's the external variables that are crushing our historically lush and easy way of life.

... + people are stupid and lazy.
I really think we should be living in a society where if you are hard working, have some sort of education, you should get a job that pays at least the ~35K, which is the median income.

But today, you can have an engineering or technical degree and are considered lucky if you land a job at all. Go talk to a lot of new grads these days and I sympathize with them, it's a much tougher job market out there than when I graduated.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:10 AM   #33
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^^ Much like a lot of social issues and phenomenons, I'd say the new grad no job condition is at least partly caused by the Baby Boomers yet again. With a lot of them remaining in the work force for whatever reason past the nominal retirement age (be it they simply enjoy work, is forced to keep working, and anything in between), Boomers continue take up the positions that they have held before. That means there is no room for the Gen X crowd to move up into (management etc.), and so there is no room for the Gen Y to start, and no room for the Millennials go.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:16 AM   #34
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Where did $7 coffee come from?

Grande Latte from bux is like 4.50?
damn...radio knows...

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Old 12-16-2013, 11:20 AM   #35
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^^ Much like a lot of social issues and phenomenons, I'd say the new grad no job condition is at least partly caused by the Baby Boomers yet again. With a lot of them remaining in the work force for whatever reason past the nominal retirement age (be it they simply enjoy work, is forced to keep working, and anything in between), Boomers continue take up the positions that they have held before. That means there is no room for the Gen X crowd to move up into (management etc.), and so there is no room for the Gen Y to start, and no room for the Millennials go.
Moral of the story?

Stop being a sheep. Make your own way. Start your own company. Do something different. Make a name for yourself. Make all the moneys. Name in lights. Laugh at the minions. Go out with a BANG. #YOLO.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:33 AM   #36
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Part of the problem is people expect too much.

As said, people expect a new phone, they expect a great education to be available to them, they expect to be able to buy a nice house on a nice street, all whilst just doing moderate levels of education and working 9-5.

With globalization, and the growth of a Chinese and Indian middle class, that can't happen anymore, the supply of easy lives remains the same, but the demand for them has grown exponentially.

Being middle class is something you have to work hard for.

Life isn't easy, it's not fair, some ppl fall into easy lives, they're just lucky, some ppl work hard and get shit on, they're unfortunate, but for the majority, if you work hard, work smart, take all the education you can (preferably by having someone pay for it, ie your company), and always try your best - that's the only way to ensure you will be ''middle class". Now, when you think of the people you know, how many people do this? How many hustle and grind to get the best grades, do the best work, meet the people they need to know? I'd say not enough.

The 70's and 80's' in North America was a totally different world than it is today. We have to adapt and stop crying that 'life's not fair, the middle class is shrinking'.

I will also say, the rich have gotten a lot richer, they have skewed the rules in their favour in most places, sadly I don't see that changing, as the occupy movement proved... We just can't have a material effect on it
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:47 AM   #37
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Yep, she's a different animal now, those that understand this will do well, those that don't get it will be in for a shitty retirement.

Think of everytime in your life you have worked with someone and thought to yourself "Man, I hate that idiot"... you shouldn't feel that way, if it wasn't for "idiots" like them North America would be uber competitive, and it would be so much harder for you to get what you so rightfully deserve, all sorts of useless knick-knack shit and hipster clothes.

Me, I get it, I see how things are screwed up and I use that to my advantage. I don't expect life to just "work itself out", I make it work.

I'm a "dooer", not a "don'ter".
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #38
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This thread brings that saying to mind, save first and spend what is leftover - not spend first and save what's leftover.

I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.

I have an iPhone4s. Have no desire for anything newer than that (mind you, I'm a simpleton and use my phone for calls, emails, a bit of Internets)
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:35 PM   #39
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I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.

Different strokes man, the cheque to cheque people might be living a lot of life in a short amount of time due to the places and people that lifestyle gives them access to

Money is the fuel you burn for experience, pretty much

Sometimes the entrepreneurial life feels like Indiana Jones at the beginning of Raiders, outrunning that big ass rock after reaching for the gold!
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:01 PM   #40
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Some people determine their quality of life through experiences, some through things, and some through the # in their bank accounts. Whatever makes you happy, although personally, I'd rather have a nice car, and blow money on snowboard trips than die with a full bank account. Its obviously about finding a balance though. Its kind of unrelated to the thread, but no one is right about how people should spend their money. Although we can agree on people spending money that they don't have is contributing to the fall of the middle class. Spending money you don't have costs you a LOT of money in the long run, and that money goes to the rich people/corporations that you borrow mass amounts of money from.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:23 PM   #41
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living for now and going for life experiences makes allot of sense.....until you have kids and realize setting my kids up for their life success (money for school, downpayment for condo, and maybe some money to start his own business) is more important than trips, cars and nice clothes. Different priorities for different people.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:02 PM   #42
what manner of phaggotry is this
 
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To be fair to my point of view, Im 30, not 20, so I came from the 'before' times and I grew up in a home (basement suite) with a single mother who had no fancy things, worked hard a standard insurance job on a very modest income and was babysat by my grandma.

Fast forward to me, no post secondary education, yet I work my fucking nuts off to get to a very comfortable income level by starting my own business less than 5 years ago.

I know very well that a generic 9-5 doesn't get you all the fancy things you see on TV (and now the internet), so I work my ass off to create opportunities for myself. Instead of bitching about how life is too tough to get what I want.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:09 PM   #43
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This thread brings that saying to mind, save first and spend what is leftover - not spend first and save what's leftover.

I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.

I have an iPhone4s. Have no desire for anything newer than that (mind you, I'm a simpleton and use my phone for calls, emails, a bit of Internets)
or take it one step farther.

Instead of spending $1000 on the $1000 shiny thing you want, ask yourself how you can make that $1000 earn you another $1000 and buy the shiny thing with that money instead. Then you essentially got your want (shiny thing) for free, and kept your need (initial investment)
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:28 PM   #44
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Instead of spending $1000 on the $1000 shiny thing you want, ask yourself how you can make that $1000 earn you another $1000 and buy the shiny thing with that money instead. Then you essentially got your want (shiny thing) for free, and kept your need (initial investment)
But, but, but... God forbid! That would require doing actual work!
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:56 AM   #45
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How so?

I received one bursary my last semester for $1100. Was one of those random Canadian Millennium ones that everyone who applies for student loans is qualified for.

I was just your average university student.

White.
Middle class.
Early 20s.

I didn't play an instrument, I didn't belong to any type of society/church/volunteer thing that provides scholarships. I am not disabled. I am not a minority. Was not on social assistance. My grades were above average, but nothing spectacular, etc.

My jobs were Roger's Video, Safeway, and a lab assistant in the department of my major (work study)....remember, this was when minimum wage was $7/hr. so at about 20 hours a week (some times more, some times less), that is only $140 before tax.

$140 would not even cover ONE university credit.
what is the point of having three jobs if you only work around one shift a week at each of them?
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:11 AM   #46
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what is the point of having three jobs if you only work around one shift a week at each of them?
Customizing your schedule and having that consistent cash flow. I remember back in university, I had 3-4 jobs. But only worked ~8 to 16 hours a week. The idea is to keep whatever little cash flow I had flowing on a consistent basis that conforms to my free time outside of school. If you had lectures on MWF and can only work Saturday and Tuesdays, it would be hard to a get a part time job that would give you consistent hours on those days all the time. I may get consistent Saturday work back then, but Tuesdays, not much. Also, you can't pigeonhole yourself to one job. If you can sneak in another job that pays more once in a blue moon, why not ?
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:44 AM   #47
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what is the point of having three jobs if you only work around one shift a week at each of them?
Have you never had a shitty part time job that was always "cutting hours"?

Jobs in retail, restaurants, etc always have fluctuating hours.

I remember working at a grocery store and going from working 32 hours one week to 4 hours the next. Sucks.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:28 PM   #48
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Nowadays we spend on things we don't need, with money we don't have, to show off to people we don't even care.......

back in the 80s and 90s is all about family. When I was a kid all I remember was my family had a 27inch TV that's it. No Ipads, no cell phones, no xbox one, no computer our clothes were hand me downs from aunts and uncles.....

If I want to play with friends we go play basketball, soccer ride our bike play tag...... basically stuff that cost next to nothing. Now everyone had an ipad, cell phones, ps4, xbox one, brand name clothing. which cost a ton of money. Is just that we have change so much on the definition of "Fun and lifestyle"
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #49
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Most middle class jobs that were created in the past were union jobs. Now unions in BC are shrinking, since we never had a manufacturing base to start with; and unions aren't very good at getting new vocations to be unionized.. Why are we surprised that the number of #middle class is shrinking?

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Old 12-29-2013, 03:49 PM   #50
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^^ another reason I see is that middle class hardly gets any help/tax breaks from the gov.
Low income family gets more benfits, more help form the gov. High income knows how to cook their books to evade tax or use grey areas to avoid paying more tax...... while middle class doesn't get much breaks from the gov or have the knowledge or is able to use the grey area of the law to avoid tax therefore they are the ones always getting screw no matter what.
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