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people didnt have ANY OF THAT 25 years ago. the money they made went to basic household needs and their family. only the well off people had toys. now a days everyone feels it is their entitlement to have all the latest toys. there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.
I know what you're saying, but maybe half a decade ago you're right. Nowadays... all those luxury items aren't really luxury anymore at today's prices.
Flat screen TV's are now $500 give or take. You can get 40 inchers Toshiba, or Sharp at more or less that price. Possibly even bigger if you go to cheaper brands like Dynamex, etc. I remember, tube TV's were more or less the same price back then when they were standard.
Laptop's arent in $2000 - $3000 range anymore. Economy laptops are now starting at $300. Decent ones at $500 - $800 and high powered ones at $1000 - $1500.
Internet is becoming a necessity nowadays and are quickly replacing cable/land line phones. Since one is replacing the other, I wouldn't personally consider it as additional expense.
Phones - as long as you're not always buying phones on release date, phone costs can be subsidized over a 2 or 3 year plan, making them virtually free, if not just probably $50 or so.
So yeah, I just wanted to counter the argument that just because a person may have a Flat Screen TV, internet, a laptop and a smart phone doesn't make them ballers.
(I won't argue about the $7 coffees though, but that can go under vices. Like how some people can justify X amounts of $ per month on cigarrettes, some on weed, some on alcohol, or simply just another car accessory)
there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.
people didnt have ANY OF THAT 25 years ago. the money they made went to basic household needs and their family. only the well off people had toys. now a days everyone feels it is their entitlement to have all the latest toys. there is no lifestyle difference between well off people and the middle class, except the middle class pay for it with borrowed money they cant pay back.
You are so wrong if you think people didn't live "indulgent" lifestyles 25 years ago... and by people I do mean the vast majority of people.
Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!
Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's
Spoiler!
The Rise of Consumerism
One of the factors that fueled the prosperity of the Fifties was the increase in consumer spending. Americans enjoyed a standard of living that was inconceivable to the rest of the world. For example, Vice President Nixon told Nikita Khrushchev in the mid-1950s that there were 60 million cars in the United States, but the Soviet leader simply refused to believe him. When Khrushchev came to visit America, Eisenhower arranged for him to fly in a helicopter over busy roads and parking lots to witness the remarkable signs of abundance for himself.
The time was ripe for Americans to change their spending patterns. The adults of the Fifties had grown up in conditions of economic deprivation, first due to the general poverty of the Great Depression and then due to the rationing of consumer goods World War II. During the Thirties, with unemployment sky-high and the economy in shambles, most people could simply not afford much beyond the basics. During the war, much of the nation's productive capacity shifted to armaments. Everything from sugar to gasoline to tires to nylon stockings were rationed. When consumer goods became available again, people wanted to spend. By the 1950s, though they made up just 6% of the world's population, Americans consumed a third of all the world's goods and services.
The difference between a production society, which focused on meeting basic needs, and a consumption society, which emphasized customers' wants, was like the difference between a 1908 Ford Model T and a 1959 Ford Galaxie. The Model T, available only in black, was a utilitarian piece of machinery intended for basic transportation. The Galaxie, decked out in shiny chrome, was a way to show off and to enjoy a sense of luxury, not just to move from place to place. Within a year or two, it would be obsolete as fashion changed. Blessed with abundant resources, America could afford to turn part of its productive capacity to creating glitz and fashionable waste. An older generation was careful to save and reuse; Americans in the Fifties began to use and throw away. They became "consumers."
Consumerism was driven by advertising. Spending on product promotion boomed, from $6 billion annually in 1950 to more than $13 billion by 1963. "The reason we have such a high standard of living," Robert Sarnoff, president of the National Broadcasting Company, said in 1956, "is because advertising has created an American frame of mind that makes people want more things, better things, and newer things."29
There's no question that advertising drove the purchase of new products, which in turn kept the nation's economic wheels turning. And, as Sarnoff pointed out, Americans did achieve a high standard of living. But some critics questioned whether a reliance on consumers to drive a huge portion of the economy was wise in the long term. Half a century later, our current economic crisis, fueled in part by a collapse of consumer spending, has raised the question again.
A Nation in Debt
Though Eisenhower tried mightily to balance the federal budget, consumers did not follow suit when it came to their own family budgets. Americans had traditionally been thrifty by nature, but in the Fifties they were willing to "buy now, pay later," as automobile advertisements urged. The Federal Housing Administration and the Veteran's Administration both offered low-interest loans to allow families to buy new homes.
The very first credit card——the Diner's Club card—— appeared in 1950. That particular card was limited to paying for meals at a limited number of restaurants, but it was quickly followed by other cards, touching off a dramatic growth in borrowing. Private debt more than doubled from $104.8 billion to $263.3 billion during the Fifties. People borrowed to buy houses, cars, appliances, and even swimming pools.
Buying on credit stimulated the economy, helping many to enjoy the good things in life even as it kept industry busy and unemployment low. Too much debt, as we've seen lately, can be a dangerous thing, but during the Fifties, borrowing mostly helped fuel the robust economy.
I can't beleive people actually thanked your post, so naive. North Americans have been pissing money away for a long time, the only difference is now we exist in a globally competitive marketplace, and we are not exacty competitive. Nothing has changed with the mindsets of Americans, it's the external variables that are crushing our historically lush and easy way of life.
... + people are stupid and lazy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonturbo
Follow me on Instagram @jasonturtle if you want to feel better about your life
You are so wrong if you think people didn't live "indulgent" lifestyles 25 years ago... and by people I do mean the vast majority of people.
Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!
Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's
Yeah, I'd agree with you here.
Most of you are far to young to remember the VCR fad of the late 70s early 80s. They were hundreds of dollars and seriously THE BEST THING EVER!!!! (we can record tv and watch it later?! OMGWTFBBQ!!).
Same with:
-Original nintendo
-Sega (SE-GA)
-Gameboy
-Car phones (I remember how cool my dad was with his car phone that came in this brief case thing, lol)
-Original mobile phones (ala Zack Morris)
-Commodore 64 with a zillion games (hello Summer Games?!)
-Walk-mans and later, disc mans
-Ghetto blasters
-Having TVs in every room
I can go on and on. Yeah this shit is worth pennies now, but back then this shit was EXPENSIVE and EVERYONE wanted them....which is the same with iPhones, iPads, flatscreens, etc....It is ALL the same shit, it just looks different.
Its all relative and to assume this has been the same for every generation is naive.
Yeah that shit seems lame to us now, back then a "Donut phone" was iphone!
Do some reading, consumerism popped in the 1950's
Spoiler!
The Rise of Consumerism
One of the factors that fueled the prosperity of the Fifties was the increase in consumer spending. Americans enjoyed a standard of living that was inconceivable to the rest of the world. For example, Vice President Nixon told Nikita Khrushchev in the mid-1950s that there were 60 million cars in the United States, but the Soviet leader simply refused to believe him. When Khrushchev came to visit America, Eisenhower arranged for him to fly in a helicopter over busy roads and parking lots to witness the remarkable signs of abundance for himself.
The time was ripe for Americans to change their spending patterns. The adults of the Fifties had grown up in conditions of economic deprivation, first due to the general poverty of the Great Depression and then due to the rationing of consumer goods World War II. During the Thirties, with unemployment sky-high and the economy in shambles, most people could simply not afford much beyond the basics. During the war, much of the nation's productive capacity shifted to armaments. Everything from sugar to gasoline to tires to nylon stockings were rationed. When consumer goods became available again, people wanted to spend. By the 1950s, though they made up just 6% of the world's population, Americans consumed a third of all the world's goods and services.
The difference between a production society, which focused on meeting basic needs, and a consumption society, which emphasized customers' wants, was like the difference between a 1908 Ford Model T and a 1959 Ford Galaxie. The Model T, available only in black, was a utilitarian piece of machinery intended for basic transportation. The Galaxie, decked out in shiny chrome, was a way to show off and to enjoy a sense of luxury, not just to move from place to place. Within a year or two, it would be obsolete as fashion changed. Blessed with abundant resources, America could afford to turn part of its productive capacity to creating glitz and fashionable waste. An older generation was careful to save and reuse; Americans in the Fifties began to use and throw away. They became "consumers."
Consumerism was driven by advertising. Spending on product promotion boomed, from $6 billion annually in 1950 to more than $13 billion by 1963. "The reason we have such a high standard of living," Robert Sarnoff, president of the National Broadcasting Company, said in 1956, "is because advertising has created an American frame of mind that makes people want more things, better things, and newer things."29
There's no question that advertising drove the purchase of new products, which in turn kept the nation's economic wheels turning. And, as Sarnoff pointed out, Americans did achieve a high standard of living. But some critics questioned whether a reliance on consumers to drive a huge portion of the economy was wise in the long term. Half a century later, our current economic crisis, fueled in part by a collapse of consumer spending, has raised the question again.
A Nation in Debt
Though Eisenhower tried mightily to balance the federal budget, consumers did not follow suit when it came to their own family budgets. Americans had traditionally been thrifty by nature, but in the Fifties they were willing to "buy now, pay later," as automobile advertisements urged. The Federal Housing Administration and the Veteran's Administration both offered low-interest loans to allow families to buy new homes.
The very first credit card——the Diner's Club card—— appeared in 1950. That particular card was limited to paying for meals at a limited number of restaurants, but it was quickly followed by other cards, touching off a dramatic growth in borrowing. Private debt more than doubled from $104.8 billion to $263.3 billion during the Fifties. People borrowed to buy houses, cars, appliances, and even swimming pools.
Buying on credit stimulated the economy, helping many to enjoy the good things in life even as it kept industry busy and unemployment low. Too much debt, as we've seen lately, can be a dangerous thing, but during the Fifties, borrowing mostly helped fuel the robust economy.
I can't beleive people actually thanked your post, so naive. North Americans have been pissing money away for a long time, the only difference is now we exist in a globally competitive marketplace, and we are not exacty competitive. Nothing has changed with the mindsets of Americans, it's the external variables that are crushing our historically lush and easy way of life.
... + people are stupid and lazy.
I really think we should be living in a society where if you are hard working, have some sort of education, you should get a job that pays at least the ~35K, which is the median income.
But today, you can have an engineering or technical degree and are considered lucky if you land a job at all. Go talk to a lot of new grads these days and I sympathize with them, it's a much tougher job market out there than when I graduated.
^^ Much like a lot of social issues and phenomenons, I'd say the new grad no job condition is at least partly caused by the Baby Boomers yet again. With a lot of them remaining in the work force for whatever reason past the nominal retirement age (be it they simply enjoy work, is forced to keep working, and anything in between), Boomers continue take up the positions that they have held before. That means there is no room for the Gen X crowd to move up into (management etc.), and so there is no room for the Gen Y to start, and no room for the Millennials go.
^^ Much like a lot of social issues and phenomenons, I'd say the new grad no job condition is at least partly caused by the Baby Boomers yet again. With a lot of them remaining in the work force for whatever reason past the nominal retirement age (be it they simply enjoy work, is forced to keep working, and anything in between), Boomers continue take up the positions that they have held before. That means there is no room for the Gen X crowd to move up into (management etc.), and so there is no room for the Gen Y to start, and no room for the Millennials go.
Moral of the story?
Stop being a sheep. Make your own way. Start your own company. Do something different. Make a name for yourself. Make all the moneys. Name in lights. Laugh at the minions. Go out with a BANG. #YOLO.
As said, people expect a new phone, they expect a great education to be available to them, they expect to be able to buy a nice house on a nice street, all whilst just doing moderate levels of education and working 9-5.
With globalization, and the growth of a Chinese and Indian middle class, that can't happen anymore, the supply of easy lives remains the same, but the demand for them has grown exponentially.
Being middle class is something you have to work hard for.
Life isn't easy, it's not fair, some ppl fall into easy lives, they're just lucky, some ppl work hard and get shit on, they're unfortunate, but for the majority, if you work hard, work smart, take all the education you can (preferably by having someone pay for it, ie your company), and always try your best - that's the only way to ensure you will be ''middle class". Now, when you think of the people you know, how many people do this? How many hustle and grind to get the best grades, do the best work, meet the people they need to know? I'd say not enough.
The 70's and 80's' in North America was a totally different world than it is today. We have to adapt and stop crying that 'life's not fair, the middle class is shrinking'.
I will also say, the rich have gotten a lot richer, they have skewed the rules in their favour in most places, sadly I don't see that changing, as the occupy movement proved... We just can't have a material effect on it
Yep, she's a different animal now, those that understand this will do well, those that don't get it will be in for a shitty retirement.
Think of everytime in your life you have worked with someone and thought to yourself "Man, I hate that idiot"... you shouldn't feel that way, if it wasn't for "idiots" like them North America would be uber competitive, and it would be so much harder for you to get what you so rightfully deserve, all sorts of useless knick-knack shit and hipster clothes.
Me, I get it, I see how things are screwed up and I use that to my advantage. I don't expect life to just "work itself out", I make it work.
I'm a "dooer", not a "don'ter".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonturbo
Follow me on Instagram @jasonturtle if you want to feel better about your life
This thread brings that saying to mind, save first and spend what is leftover - not spend first and save what's leftover.
I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.
I have an iPhone4s. Have no desire for anything newer than that (mind you, I'm a simpleton and use my phone for calls, emails, a bit of Internets)
I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.
Different strokes man, the cheque to cheque people might be living a lot of life in a short amount of time due to the places and people that lifestyle gives them access to
Money is the fuel you burn for experience, pretty much
Sometimes the entrepreneurial life feels like Indiana Jones at the beginning of Raiders, outrunning that big ass rock after reaching for the gold!
Some people determine their quality of life through experiences, some through things, and some through the # in their bank accounts. Whatever makes you happy, although personally, I'd rather have a nice car, and blow money on snowboard trips than die with a full bank account. Its obviously about finding a balance though. Its kind of unrelated to the thread, but no one is right about how people should spend their money. Although we can agree on people spending money that they don't have is contributing to the fall of the middle class. Spending money you don't have costs you a LOT of money in the long run, and that money goes to the rich people/corporations that you borrow mass amounts of money from.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
living for now and going for life experiences makes allot of sense.....until you have kids and realize setting my kids up for their life success (money for school, downpayment for condo, and maybe some money to start his own business) is more important than trips, cars and nice clothes. Different priorities for different people.
__________________
16 GT3 RS
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18 VW Golf R
To be fair to my point of view, Im 30, not 20, so I came from the 'before' times and I grew up in a home (basement suite) with a single mother who had no fancy things, worked hard a standard insurance job on a very modest income and was babysat by my grandma.
Fast forward to me, no post secondary education, yet I work my fucking nuts off to get to a very comfortable income level by starting my own business less than 5 years ago.
I know very well that a generic 9-5 doesn't get you all the fancy things you see on TV (and now the internet), so I work my ass off to create opportunities for myself. Instead of bitching about how life is too tough to get what I want.
This thread brings that saying to mind, save first and spend what is leftover - not spend first and save what's leftover.
I find the idiots out there have all the toys and no investments or plan for a rainy day (the paycheque to paycheque crowd), vs. the smarter crowd that realize shiny things are just that, things.
I have an iPhone4s. Have no desire for anything newer than that (mind you, I'm a simpleton and use my phone for calls, emails, a bit of Internets)
or take it one step farther.
Instead of spending $1000 on the $1000 shiny thing you want, ask yourself how you can make that $1000 earn you another $1000 and buy the shiny thing with that money instead. Then you essentially got your want (shiny thing) for free, and kept your need (initial investment)
Instead of spending $1000 on the $1000 shiny thing you want, ask yourself how you can make that $1000 earn you another $1000 and buy the shiny thing with that money instead. Then you essentially got your want (shiny thing) for free, and kept your need (initial investment)
But, but, but... God forbid! That would require doing actual work!
I received one bursary my last semester for $1100. Was one of those random Canadian Millennium ones that everyone who applies for student loans is qualified for.
I was just your average university student.
White.
Middle class.
Early 20s.
I didn't play an instrument, I didn't belong to any type of society/church/volunteer thing that provides scholarships. I am not disabled. I am not a minority. Was not on social assistance. My grades were above average, but nothing spectacular, etc.
My jobs were Roger's Video, Safeway, and a lab assistant in the department of my major (work study)....remember, this was when minimum wage was $7/hr. so at about 20 hours a week (some times more, some times less), that is only $140 before tax.
$140 would not even cover ONE university credit.
what is the point of having three jobs if you only work around one shift a week at each of them?
what is the point of having three jobs if you only work around one shift a week at each of them?
Customizing your schedule and having that consistent cash flow. I remember back in university, I had 3-4 jobs. But only worked ~8 to 16 hours a week. The idea is to keep whatever little cash flow I had flowing on a consistent basis that conforms to my free time outside of school. If you had lectures on MWF and can only work Saturday and Tuesdays, it would be hard to a get a part time job that would give you consistent hours on those days all the time. I may get consistent Saturday work back then, but Tuesdays, not much. Also, you can't pigeonhole yourself to one job. If you can sneak in another job that pays more once in a blue moon, why not ?
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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Nowadays we spend on things we don't need, with money we don't have, to show off to people we don't even care.......
back in the 80s and 90s is all about family. When I was a kid all I remember was my family had a 27inch TV that's it. No Ipads, no cell phones, no xbox one, no computer our clothes were hand me downs from aunts and uncles.....
If I want to play with friends we go play basketball, soccer ride our bike play tag...... basically stuff that cost next to nothing. Now everyone had an ipad, cell phones, ps4, xbox one, brand name clothing. which cost a ton of money. Is just that we have change so much on the definition of "Fun and lifestyle"
Most middle class jobs that were created in the past were union jobs. Now unions in BC are shrinking, since we never had a manufacturing base to start with; and unions aren't very good at getting new vocations to be unionized.. Why are we surprised that the number of #middle class is shrinking?
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
^^ another reason I see is that middle class hardly gets any help/tax breaks from the gov.
Low income family gets more benfits, more help form the gov. High income knows how to cook their books to evade tax or use grey areas to avoid paying more tax...... while middle class doesn't get much breaks from the gov or have the knowledge or is able to use the grey area of the law to avoid tax therefore they are the ones always getting screw no matter what.
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