Creationism debate, Bill Nye VS Ken Ham

[strykn]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

i gotta ask, if we "know" our universe is expanding (or appears to be, could be some sorta perspective illusion)... what the hell are we expanding INTO?

nothing? nil? that... "nothing/nil" (if u choose to call it that) is still something. as soon as you are able to label it... it... it exists.. it's SOMETHING.

I'm almost absolutely certain that finite, beginning, and end are merely mortal/human concepts.

there was no beginning and there is no end. things have just always been around. existence has been around for all of eternity. the concept is something humans cant understand.

i'll just throw this in anyway, cuz it relates to the topic... we live in a fractal universe. fractals are apparent at every level of existence as far as the scientific community is concerned. if you just look at the mathematical equations for fractals, then it becomes very apparent, that the inherent nature of fractals is eternal... forever in both directions. fractals are everywhere because it is the most effective way to cram "infinity" into a formula that isn't monstrously complex.

anyway your MIB marble example, although cartoonish, is a very crude example of fractals. if you were to zoom out of the alien playing marbles, there would be another alien playing marbles. and so on so forth forever.

recursive, fractal universe is apparent in science, and has been long explained by hindus and buddhists (and probably other religions that i have yet to study).

there are no ultimate creators. there are only ultimate creators subjective to which enclosed system you are looking at. there's always another system above or below. infinite. recursive.

religion nor science can ever explain those things.

everything is just a smaller version of something bigger (conceptually and in the role they play, ignoring physical appearance)

one doesn't have to look to the stars and cosmos to see infinity. One can just look within and perceive infinity within the mind.


lol i realise i am stomping on both science and religion (as science types will disagree because it hasnt been proven and is not "observable" nor testable... and religious types... well my story doesn't align with all religions). but if you drop all the semantics and stories for both sides, you can clearly see they're talking about the same thing.

ulic does it again

[Excelsis]

what most of you don't realize is that your perceived reality is not the ultimate reality

if you go on the journey of increasing your level of consciousness then you'll begin to realize what this whole thing means more and more

majority of people get stuck with one thing and they are not able to see the reality of it

like if you could look at war, disease, death as "bad" things in your perceived reality, when the ultimate reality of it is that those things don't exist

lower energies don't take part in the ultimate reality

so science has some things which are truthful put together with some lower energies and the same thing with religion, which is why the truth is never found if you try to make your point of perspective the right one..



The higher you move up the more you see..