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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:06 PM   #51
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O

Same thing goes for carbon offset credit companies that fund environmental projects... they all have fine print on their websites that say that an undetermined % of the money goes to the projects and a % to executives running the carbon offset company. Such bullshit.
So... you expect people to work for free when it comes to "progressive" causes? Every organization has administrative costs because people don't work for free.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:22 PM   #52
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Did I say that? Anywhere?

They should honestly post up what percentage and how much their salaries are so you can make a decision yourself about whether it's worthwhile.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:36 AM   #53
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I won't say it is disgusting.. it is a legal niche, that is driven by society as a whole who are in love with low taxes and small government. Tapioca is right, people who grew up in the burbs are sanitized from the effects (and unfortunately opportunities) of places like DTES. Fibers need to be recycled, just like mint chocolate needed to be sold for "non profit" at restaurants in the old days. Fiber recycling is double if not triple loaded, so if you can't afford payment for a 200k car you are doing things really wrong, heck you don't even need to fund raise.

The people who wrote the non profit rules are politicians and lawyers. They had left plenty of loop holes so they know where to go when they need extra cash. Most of them have the acumen to not be so blatant and act so entitled about it like the PHS.

The administrative percentages for non profits are listed on a CRA website. If you put it in perspective say PHS has an operating budget of 30million, 10% (typical) goes to administration that is 3 million, say half goes to physical needs like trips to Staples, 1.5mill is still a lot to pay for 4 execs. (program managers and staff get paid via gov funds so they are not part of it).

Don't forget PHS also offers free dental to anyone.. not just DTES residents, and people from other places do take advantage of it.. remember this guy

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One of those guys WAS on Revscene years ago from West Van.. he was super young and had a Gallardo and was totally open about how he bought it because he sold donated clothes back to the countries that originally made them after people dumped them in his bins. Disgusting.

Same thing goes for carbon offset credit companies that fund environmental projects... they all have fine print on their websites that say that an undetermined % of the money goes to the projects and a % to executives running the carbon offset company. Such bullshit.

Last edited by godwin; 03-27-2014 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:18 AM   #54
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The poor will always get fucked by those in power, always
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:33 AM   #55
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The poor will always get fucked by those in power, always
one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:41 AM   #56
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Here's an idea. If government officials really want to walk the walk, and talk the talk about transparency, they should hire an independent auditor to audit these non-profit organizations.

Pass legislation to make it a law for these NPO's to give financial statements to an independent auditor to scrutinize for any financial irregularities.

Better yet, there should integrity officers that inspect these NPO's offices or investigate their staff for spending sprees.

Give these NPOs a lifetime ban from government funding if they're caught spending tax payer dollars on bling, vacations, etc.

These scammers need to pay back every dollar that they spend on personal items.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:06 PM   #57
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That is unrealistic, considering a proper audit (as in a legally defined one) costs somewhere from 20k+ and takes at least 2-3 months to do. Not to mention most of the non profits are not like PHS. The executives still get pay the same amount, the staff have to do the paperwork, tax payers will have to support a few more non profits because now some of the work is left because the existing ones are doing audits. There are about 25k-30k non profits in BC.. do the math on the cost of auditing them.

The fact is even if you have integrity officers inspect the books, the rules clearly allow discretionary spending on administrative funds. The issue is it is a loophole not a scam; much like aggressive tax deductions. Non profits is a huge economic engine especially in Vancouver. If you are entrepreneurial like Mark Brand of Save On Meats, it is not that hard to gain fame and fortune.

However if you are a CA student and wants to have a steady 100k+ job, the "integrity officers" you propose would be the gov jobs you want to get. In the end, the tax payers still have to foot that bill. Say 20 "integrity officer" for the province full time + support staff and travel (for the audits remember proper ones have to be on location).. that bill can reach millions easily... for a few hundred thousand? really? The ROI is just no there.

The best way to deal with DTES is to reopen Riverview, allow drug treatment / involuntary commitments and get proper nurses and support staff to deal with the program. However cows will be able to land on the moon when this happens.

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Here's an idea. If government officials really want to walk the walk, and talk the talk about transparency, they should hire an independent auditor to audit these non-profit organizations.

Pass legislation to make it a law for these NPO's to give financial statements to an independent auditor to scrutinize for any financial irregularities.

Better yet, there should integrity officers that inspect these NPO's offices or investigate their staff for spending sprees.

Give these NPOs a lifetime ban from government funding if they're caught spending tax payer dollars on bling, vacations, etc.

These scammers need to pay back every dollar that they spend on personal items.

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Old 03-27-2014, 04:02 PM   #58
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one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle
One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:18 PM   #59
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One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.
This. There are plenty of wealthy people who believe the way to maintain their status is by pushing others down, and there are plenty of other wealthy people (Bill Gates, et al) who spend a majority of their fortunes helping the less fortunate.

Just as there are poor people who are poor because they are lazy and/or made poor life choices and poor people who are a victim of bad circumstances and placed in a niche where they cannot rise above their poverty.

That being said, especially in Vancouver, the gap between wealthy and poor is huge, especially with respect to the cost of living. The fact that the average person needs to be making six figures to afford their own home in/near the city is unacceptable.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:17 PM   #60
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So... you expect people to work for free when it comes to "progressive" causes? Every organization has administrative costs because people don't work for free.

Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:41 PM   #61
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It depends on the context, if there was a convention in the Anaheim area that Dan Small had to attend (or even just going to visit a school to give a talk, or go to Anaheim to observe their homeless situation) then Yes for Disneyland (remember Disneyland markets themselves as a convention center for this exact reason). Luxury dinners to attract potential donors, yes. The bar for expenses is not high (for dinner, as long as there is a party that is not part of the company and you talked about business eg What do you do for a living? then it is kosher). That's why a lot of non profits are generous with dining especially when they don't know you, but you fit in their donor profile. In fact non profits are like any businesess, if the accountants were okay with the expenses, which they did and Revenue Canada got their fillings; then the expenses are legit. Hotel upgrade? reason: allergic to sun, air, water of that particular room and no other room of the same class are available. Remember his job title is vague for a reason: "director of policy, research and fund development"

The crux of the problem here is legitimate expenses don't mean they are in good optics. Bad optics is what forced the resignations and repayments at this point. Administrative cost is not general operations cost. Administrative costs, the non profit usually have to fund raise themselves (usually they can only take max 10%?). That's the expense column they are claiming all this. General operations eg Running Insite etc and the staffing there are from the gov and BC Housing and the executives at PHS were smart enough to not touch that. The ex execs would love to talk trash about PHS now, because the brand is now damaged goods, the quicker the brand sinks, the quicker they can turn around and form something new and grab the contracts. There are competing non profits besides PHS that are vying for those lucrative contracts.

As I had said before non profits especially in prosperous North America are businesses. They just don't make any profits at the end of the fiscal year. A lot of the times the executives are not required to have a heart for the target demographic they serve.. much like a for profit business.

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Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.

Last edited by godwin; 03-27-2014 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:15 PM   #62
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one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle
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One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.
Not taking anything away from personal accountability. But my best friend and I came from poor households. We were the type that never got christmas presents, our parents were never present. no one taught us how to succeed.
Only presents we got were when our parents visit those toy drives because we couldnt afford toys and as a kid we wougld be soo happy when we got something. To this day I donate toys during toy drives all the time because of this.

Story is, we both took different paths. we were both of equal intelligence, but I think my parents were slightly better off, and I wont ramble on, but long story short I made it out of poverty and he didnt, and althought hes finally improving his situation, lets just say it was much more difficult for us to advance our lives.

I always say it's easy to judge others when you have nice parents, a nice home and come from good families, and have role models.

Sometimes its not about intelligence, it's just about the environment you grew up in. Sometimes the odds are against you and you are just uneducated or just naive or unaware that its possible to live a different & better life because you have never lived it before.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:33 AM   #63
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One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.
not saying that at all, and i agree with you. but we can't just say 'the poor will be poor because the rich keep them that way'
how many of our parents had nothing, literally nothing, had to consider the cost of fuel in the decision of going to the beach in the summer when we were young (my personal situation), now how many of our parents have net assets in the millions, or are very comfortable, or whatever metric you want to use in assessing their happiness? My parents were never homeless, but supposedly the conditions my father lived in would have made me sick, and what he ate was the cheapest food (baked beans on toast was a staple for my parents back in the day)

in my situation (that is, my parents coming from nothing to being in a position of privilege and being able to provide a great example to my siblings and i) it's all been down to VERY hard work, long hours, conservative, smart decisions. so it can be done, just as equally as people can blame others and say 'i'm down trodden' and stay on the breadline for life.

now, having said that, it's so much easier to stay richer when you're born richer - but i personally think so much of it is attitude and decision making. i see so many young single mums with kids (especially in the UK) - unplanned at that - there's one way of making life that much harder. i always think to myself that this is a decision, you can choose to be a bit smarter, to use protection, to keep your legs closed, etc. but outside of that, in canada we are so fortunate to have a relatively high minimum wage, so here's my super simple plan to improve your life if you feel downtrodden:

Get a minimum wage job. Work all the fucking shifts available, work 80 hrs a week. Rent a room in a house, pref. somewhere close to transit, don't own a car. Spend a year working your arse off, saving everything you can. go to college, get some kind of training on a part time basis as you work. Guess what after 3 years of doing this you'll probably be able to get a much better paying job as you will have a skill that is valued, i'm not saying $100K a year, but maybe $40-$50K if it's a trade, maybe now you can share a slightly nicer apartment with someone (keeping costs down).

I just don't buy the whole 'i'm poor i can't get out of it' argument, especially in canada, it just takes discipline, hard work, and a view to bigger, better things in your future. Do you all think I enjoyed working for 7 years at a restaurant to put myself through school entirely debt free (i'll grant you, i lived at home for free for most of that time (at the end i did have to pay rent, as was always agreed, i took too long at school, was my bad)) - no, i didn't, but damn it, the fruits of your labour are sweeter than the alternative.

but anyways, i digress, ramble, and sound like a total right wing/hitler youth movement type. i hate politicians and anyone associated with taxpayer money. sadly i don't have a solution to the world's problems, but i know where i'd start, and that would be by firing a lot of grease ball politicians, taking away their pensions and their severance packages.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:36 AM   #64
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Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.
no we haven't, it's clear that no one thinks those items are general admin costs, but what can we do about it? nothing... our hands are tied, this issue will go to bed, then someone else will do it

the system is broken and will never get fixed, that's why you pay high top tax rates, yet your services and infrastructure suck, too much is being wasted candying noses (rob ford) or lining the pocket of fat fuck politicians

if you want to start standing outside of city hall and protesting, i will support you - grow the group day by day, start a NPO yourself to cover certain costs (food/heating/shelter) in your stance against this BS, and i'll donate to you. but it won't last, the police will move you along. Canada isn't as free as you think it is (just look at the Chinese protesters on Granville... and how that got disbanded)
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