Ferrari embroiled in legal battle over 21-year-old's Facebook page

[Timpo]

Ferrari embroiled in legal battle over 21-year-old's Facebook page

By Chris Bruce
Posted Mar 28th 2014 11:31AM

Ferrari is facing a court battle in Switzerland due to alleged copyright infringement over taking over a Facebook fan site. If the suit is successful, it could cost the company millions and harm its reputation on social media.

Sammy Wassem started the Facebook fan page for Ferrari when he was 15 and eventually grew it to over 500,000 followers. In 2009, the company congratulated him on the site's success, but said that "legal issues" forced it to take over the administration, according to Automotive News Europe. Wassem could still use the site, but managers had oversight.

Wassem asked Ferrari for financial compensation to keep working on the page but continued creating content on it for the next four years. Eventually, the company terminated his administration rights. In 2013 he and his father Olivier filed the lawsuit against the business alleging it owes payment over 5,500 hours of work and copyright infringement for taking over the page. They are asking for 10 million Swiss francs ($11.3 million).

Ferrari is counter-suing them for misusing the company's trademark, including allegedly advertising other merchandise on the page and using it to send invitations to Sammy's 18th birthday.
"The issue isn't with Facebook or with our fans but with those who try to use Ferrari's intellectual property to make money out of it," said Stefano Lai, a spokesman for Ferrari to Automotive News Europe.

The case highlights the difficult balance companies have to maintain with social media. Even if Ferrari is right, the fallout from lawsuit could be a loss of fans.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...book-page.html
http://www.carscoops.com/2014/03/fer...fight-for.html
http://jalopnik.com/this-guy-is-piss...ook-1553062551
http://www.bananaip.com/sinapse-blog...-fan-page.html

[meme405]

Out of curiosity what is the "content" this kid created?

If it is as I suspect and the kid simply stole pictures from google and other sources and posted them on a fan page he created, then I see no reason this kid should see any sort of payout.

(this is me speaking from a fair and logical standpoint not a legal standpoint, what Ferrari did could very well be illegal)

EDIT: Just looked this up furthur, and thought about it a bit more.

This kid does actually deserve nothing IMO, they tried to negotiate with Ferrari in 2009 when the page was first taken over, they did not get the terms they wanted. After that they kept working on the page purely out of their own goodwill.

Ferrari is a trademarked name, and the Wassems should have never made a FB page under that name anyway.

Also as someone else pointed out 5500 hours for 11 million means this kid is making aprox $2000/hr. I had no idea copying and pasting other photographers work was meant to be more lucrative than the actual person taking the pictures.

[320icar]

I disagree. He may deserve the equal payout in terms of the amount of hours he managed the Facebook page AFTER ferrari demanded ownership. Thus he became a low-level employee and contined to advertise and support the brand via social media.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Iron Chef]

Posted via RS Mobile

[dared3vil0]

I feel he deserves something, but 5500/hour? What an idiot.

[GFunk]

Originally Posted by dared3vil0

I feel he deserves something, but 5500/hour? What an idiot.

5,500 hours, not per hour

[radioman]

11.3mil/5,500hours = $2055/hr?

Maths am I doin it rite

[Timpo]

$2000+/hr for posting things on Facebook is ridiculous.
I bet he exaggerated the 5500 hrs too, it probably was 550 hrs.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by 320icar

I disagree. He may deserve the equal payout in terms of the amount of hours he managed the Facebook page AFTER ferrari demanded ownership. Thus he became a low-level employee and contined to advertise and support the brand via social media.
Posted via RS Mobile

I disagree, in 2009 the Wassems tried to negotiate a contract with Ferrari and Ferrari flat out refused any sort of compensation or anything for that page.

At that point if the Wassems were unhappy they should have pursued legal action against Ferrari regarding control of the page (which they clearly would have lost).

Going after Ferrari now for those hours makes no sense.

A real life example (albeit simplified):

I apply for a job as a security person for a jewellery store, the jewellery store says they have no openings and do not hire me. Then I go buy a security jacket of my own and stand outside the jewellery store day after day for years. After 5 years the jewellery store finally tells me to get the fuck off their property, then I go and try to sue the jewellery store for the income they never paid me for my services. Would that make any sense?

And before anyone quotes the BC employment standards act to me, or the Quantum Meruit Law, please just don't it does not apply when the individual expressly denied your services.

Again if the Wassems even wanted this to be taken remotely seriously they would have valued their 15 year old kids hourly rate at a more reasonable amount than upwards of $2000/hr.

Instead they are making wildly idiotic attempts at crazy valuations in an attempt to get as much publicity and slander Ferrari as much as possible in the hopes that Ferrari will just settle to get past this bullshit.

I for one can't stand people that try to use the public eye to extort money out of large corporations, and I sincerely hope Ferrari doesn't settle and instead takes the Wassems to the cleaners. My main fear is the bad precedent something like this could send to others if the Wassems do make a penny.

I could only imagine the number of people making pages in other companies names and such then in the future trying to extort money out of said companies.

[meme405]

I also have to ask again, exactly what content was this kid creating for the page?

I can understand if he was shooting pictures and videos, but I don't believe thats the case, Instead he was simply stealing other peoples work, and posting their pictures and information on his page.

If anything the photographers work who he stole without giving due credit (which I assume in a lot of cases he did not do), should be the ones suing the pants off this kid.

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by meme405

I also have to ask again, exactly what content was this kid creating for the page?

I can understand if he was shooting pictures and videos, but I don't believe thats the case, Instead he was simply stealing other peoples work, and posting their pictures and information on his page.

If anything the photographers work who he stole without giving due credit (which I assume in a lot of cases he did not do), should be the ones suing the pants off this kid.

I agree. Forza Ferrari! It's crazy with what people can do within the justice system these days, launching lawsuits left, right, and center, to get compensation and also slowing down the justice system from helping people.

Ferrari's Prancing Horse needs to give this kid a kick in the ass with their team of lawyers.

[GLOW]

he should have just asked for a ferrari for his troubles

[320icar]

Originally Posted by meme405

Spoiler!

I disagree, in 2009 the Wassems tried to negotiate a contract with Ferrari and Ferrari flat out refused any sort of compensation or anything for that page.

At that point if the Wassems were unhappy they should have pursued legal action against Ferrari regarding control of the page (which they clearly would have lost).

Going after Ferrari now for those hours makes no sense.

A real life example (albeit simplified):

I apply for a job as a security person for a jewellery store, the jewellery store says they have no openings and do not hire me. Then I go buy a security jacket of my own and stand outside the jewellery store day after day for years. After 5 years the jewellery store finally tells me to get the fuck off their property, then I go and try to sue the jewellery store for the income they never paid me for my services. Would that make any sense?

And before anyone quotes the BC employment standards act to me, or the Quantum Meruit Law, please just don't it does not apply when the individual expressly denied your services.

Again if the Wassems even wanted this to be taken remotely seriously they would have valued their 15 year old kids hourly rate at a more reasonable amount than upwards of $2000/hr.

Instead they are making wildly idiotic attempts at crazy valuations in an attempt to get as much publicity and slander Ferrari as much as possible in the hopes that Ferrari will just settle to get past this bullshit.

I for one can't stand people that try to use the public eye to extort money out of large corporations, and I sincerely hope Ferrari doesn't settle and instead takes the Wassems to the cleaners. My main fear is the bad precedent something like this could send to others if the Wassems do make a penny.

I could only imagine the number of people making pages in other companies names and such then in the future trying to extort money out of said companies.

Ah sorry. I don't think i totally understood the situation. Yes they should have pursued legal action years ago. Doing so now is at bit snooze you lose. And asking 11 mil is ludicrous, i don't think anyone is disagreeing that point.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Geoc]

If the Wassem's generated even a single penny from the site, they will have violated any international fair use acts and will lose any right to the site's trademarked content.

tbh, the only crutch that the Wassems has are trying to get the public's side. Civil legal battles are war of attrition, Ferrari's legal team will wring them dry.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Ah sorry. I don't think i totally understood the situation. Yes they should have pursued legal action years ago. Doing so now is at bit snooze you lose. And asking 11 mil is ludicrous, i don't think anyone is disagreeing that point.
Posted via RS Mobile

No need to apologize. The case is confusing at best, because of the stupid timeline and poor reporting by most news agencies (I blame this almost solely on the race for news sites to gain hits).

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Timpo

Sammy Wassem started the Facebook fan page for Ferrari when he was 15 and eventually grew it to over 500,000 followers. In 2009, the company congratulated him on the site's success, but said that "legal issues" forced it to take over the administration, according to Automotive News Europe. Wassem could still use the site, but managers had oversight.

This makes sense, when something grows to that size it's something the company should be controlling as it's become more than just a simple fan page.

Originally Posted by Timpo

Wassem asked Ferrari for financial compensation to keep working on the page but continued creating content on it for the next four years. Eventually, the company terminated his administration rights.

I'm not sure what he was thinking here, he should've asked Ferrari for a small sum for the work he had already done, I can't think of any original content that he could create for the page after Ferrari took over.

Originally Posted by Timpo

In 2013 he and his father Olivier filed the lawsuit against the business alleging it owes payment over 5,500 hours of work and copyright infringement for taking over the page. They are asking for 10 million Swiss francs ($11.3 million).

Payment for work they never asked him to do? I'm guessing part of the $11.3M is for the copyright infringement but I'm curious as to what copywritten content he was producing.

Originally Posted by Timpo

Ferrari is counter-suing them for misusing the company's trademark, including allegedly advertising other merchandise on the page and using it to send invitations to Sammy's 18th birthday.
"The issue isn't with Facebook or with our fans but with those who try to use Ferrari's intellectual property to make money out of it," said Stefano Lai, a spokesman for Ferrari to Automotive News Europe.

I'm curious if the other merchandise is for legitimate product or just those stupid spammers that join facebook groups?