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Old 07-16-2014, 07:05 AM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsideon View Post
I was talking to a bunch of people about Messi not "deserving" the award.
Basically the MVP, is just that, the Most Valuable Player to their team right?
It's obvious that Argentina would not have been anywhere close to battling for the cup in the finals without him. Every goal he scored and assisted on was crucial and helped them advance. Can you say that about any other player for their team?
Scuba expert Robben? Netherlands is stacked, he would not nearly be missed as much if he wasn't on the pitch. One could say Van Persie is more critical to the team than Robben.
Same with Germany, Klose? Muller? Take any 1 of those players off and they still have an elite team from top to bottom.

Neymar is a strong case since Brazil got dismantled after he got injured, but Silva didn't play either, and it's up for debate whether Silva would have been more important to the team than Neymar given Brazil's defensive break down.

Messi deserved it, literally single-handedly carrying the 10-man team to the cup final. Sad to see him accept the Golden Ball with such a disappointing face but Germany was the best team of the tournament.
Yeah I agree now, after hearing the same argument as yours in discussions I've come to agree and changed my view he is worthy of it. But I would still have liked Robben to have been given it





Also turns out Maradona is dissing Messi's golden ball award, he says its just a marketing gimmick for Adidas

Diego Maradona: Lionel Messi didn't deserve Golden Ball - FIFA World Cup 2014 - CBC
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:10 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
Yeah I agree now, after hearing the same argument as yours in discussions I've come to agree and changed my view he is worthy of it. But I would still have liked Robben to have been given it





Also turns out Maradona is dissing Messi's golden ball award, he says its just a marketing gimmick for Adidas

Diego Maradona: Lionel Messi didn't deserve Golden Ball - FIFA World Cup 2014 - CBC

Initially, I thought it was a load of shit that Messi got the Golden Ball. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. I still kinda think there is a marketing ploy behind this but not as strongly as I initially felt.
Either way, it was a good World Cup. There wasn't much to complain about.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:21 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
Yeah I agree now, after hearing the same argument as yours in discussions I've come to agree and changed my view he is worthy of it. But I would still have liked Robben to have been given it





Also turns out Maradona is dissing Messi's golden ball award, he says its just a marketing gimmick for Adidas

Diego Maradona: Lionel Messi didn't deserve Golden Ball - FIFA World Cup 2014 - CBC
Maradona can go fuck himself. He's a guy that's extremely dishonest (like admitting the whole tainted water fiasco when they played Brazil in 86, I think). Fuck that idiot.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:55 PM   #629
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Yeah I don't know why anyone takes Maradona's opinion seriously. The guy might've been a great player but his legacy is the Hand of God, performance enhancing drug bans and generally being a huge douchefaced dickclown.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:26 PM   #630
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Maradona might be a complete idiot but his opinion on Messi winning the Golden Ball is completely right.

Messi had a decent World Cup but there a few players who clearly out performed him. James Rodriguez, Muller, Robben, Neur and arguably Kroos had better overall performances then he did. IMO James should have won it, each match he played he was the star and basically carried his team with breath taking moments.

When the games mattered the most, Messi had very little influence. Seems like for top teams it's getting easier and easier to mark him out of the game, similar year at Barcelona for him against top teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsideon View Post
I was talking to a bunch of people about Messi not "deserving" the award.
Basically the MVP, is just that, the Most Valuable Player to their team right?
It's obvious that Argentina would not have been anywhere close to battling for the cup in the finals without him. Every goal he scored and assisted on was crucial and helped them advance. Can you say that about any other player for their team?
Scuba expert Robben? Netherlands is stacked, he would not nearly be missed as much if he wasn't on the pitch. One could say Van Persie is more critical to the team than Robben.
Same with Germany, Klose? Muller? Take any 1 of those players off and they still have an elite team from top to bottom.

Neymar is a strong case since Brazil got dismantled after he got injured, but Silva didn't play either, and it's up for debate whether Silva would have been more important to the team than Neymar given Brazil's defensive break down.

Messi deserved it, literally single-handedly carrying the 10-man team to the cup final. Sad to see him accept the Golden Ball with such a disappointing face but Germany was the best team of the tournament.
No it's not. It's an award classified as "Best Player". Not MVP.

Also no offense but you obviously don't know shit about soccer if you think this Netherlands team is stacked and that they could easily have replaced Robben who was hands down their best player. It was a young team mainly composed of Eredivisie players, a league many would say is 6th best in Europe.

Last edited by iwantaskyline; 07-16-2014 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:57 PM   #631
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Maradona is an idiot

who gives a fuck what he thinks

Leo Messi has done everything. won everything possible now.

The elusive World Cup is whats left.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:36 PM   #632
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Maradona might be a complete idiot but his opinion on Messi winning the Golden Ball is completely right.

Messi had a decent World Cup but there a few players who clearly out performed him. James Rodriguez, Muller, Robben, Neur and arguably Kroos had better overall performances then he did. IMO James should have won it, each match he played he was the star and basically carried his team with breath taking moments.

When the games mattered the most, Messi had very little influence. Seems like for top teams it's getting easier and easier to mark him out of the game, similar year at Barcelona for him against top teams.

No it's not. It's an award classified as "Best Player". Not MVP.

Also no offense but you obviously don't know shit about soccer if you think this Netherlands team is stacked and that they could easily have replaced Robben who was hands down their best player. It was a young team mainly composed of Eredivisie players, a league many would say is 6th best in Europe.
No offense taken and I do admit that I don't know that much about futbol. I am definitely not hardcore enough to be following Eredivisie league players but from watching this entertaining world cup, you can't tell me that Messi was not key for Argentina's run.
An argument could be made that, if Messi and Robben were to switch places, what would the world think?

Could Robben have single-handedly dove his way to the cup final playing for Argentina?
Would Netherlands have went all the way if Messi was their star striker?

From a casual point of view as a casual soccer fan and watching this world cup, I would have to say Messi was the best player and most important to the team.
Rodriguez was great too but he couldn't push his team out of the 1st round. I would think team results played a factor into deciding the Golden Ball too. Messi didn't score in any of the knockout stages, but his presence alone almost willed them to the trophy?
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:21 AM   #633
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No offense taken and I do admit that I don't know that much about futbol. I am definitely not hardcore enough to be following Eredivisie league players but from watching this entertaining world cup, you can't tell me that Messi was not key for Argentina's run.
An argument could be made that, if Messi and Robben were to switch places, what would the world think?

Ummm not sure what your point is here. Both would still be the best on either team but who cares...

Could Robben have single-handedly dove his way to the cup final playing for Argentina? No.
Would Netherlands have went all the way if Messi was their star striker?
No.

From a casual point of view as a casual soccer fan and watching this world cup, I would have to say Messi was the best player and most important to the team.
Rodriguez was great too but he couldn't push his team out of the 1st round. I would think team results played a factor into deciding the Golden Ball too. Messi didn't score in any of the knockout stages, but his presence alone almost willed them to the trophy?

You're comparing a Columbian team with mostly average players to a stacked Argentinian team. Yes yes I know, the media was generally saying Messi lacked support in offense. Argentina had a world class defense behind Messi. They won most of their games because of this defense, not because they had a killer offense that banged in 2-4 goals per game. Mascherano to me was the best player on Argentina in both of their final knockout games. If not for his last ditch tack on Robben we would have seen another all European final.

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The majority of pundits and knowledgeable soccer fans agree that James was the stand out player of the tournament. The only reason why Columbia even had a sniff of passing the quarters was due to his brilliance. He showed up in all games even in that last game when Brazil basically kicked him any chance they had.


Messi didn't score in any of the knock out stage games because he was simply marked out of them. Top teams know the blueprint to stop him. We've witnessed this with Barcelona this year as well.[/B]

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Old 07-18-2014, 04:45 PM   #634
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I just remembered that someone ran onto the pitch during the final but the camera wouldn't show them so i was curious and googled it just now

turns out it was that Vitaly guy from those youtube videos

Russian-Born Prankster Streaks Across Pitch During World Cup Final (Video) | News | The Moscow Times

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Old 07-19-2014, 01:09 AM   #635
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Also no offense but you obviously don't know shit about soccer if you think this Netherlands team is stacked and that they could easily have replaced Robben who was hands down their best player. It was a young team mainly composed of Eredivisie players, a league many would say is 6th best in Europe.
dude most of the members on here dont know shiet about soccer.

any real fans that actually follow soccer knows that guy's post was full of shiet. Amen, Robben was one of the many that played deserving of the golden ball, along with neuer and rodriguez. And what you said about Eredivisie players is bang on. This is why Van Gaal had to play a more defensive scheme against argentina because of the players he had to work with that game. Netherlands barely beat mexico, and didnt come into the tournaments as favourites.

You can tell when someone's a newb when they call robben a chronic diver.
Like who the fuck doesnt embellish? at least robben admits that he dives. I give him mad respect for that. and guess what? he's also one of the best in the world at dribbling and getting into the box. I remember during world cup 2010 and other games where he would get fouled and kept playing, or just jump over the defenders, but that lead him nowhere. so he does what everyone else does and thats go down when he gets fouled legitimately so his team can get a penalty kick. I would say, given how many opportunities he has to take dives or embellish, he probably dives less than the average player. I see him all the time in the box for Bayern and Real Madrid and getting tackled but he keeps playing or just jumps over the defender instead of going down and drawing the foul. I just hate how amateur soccer fans calling Robben a diver because they saw him embellish one play during the mexico game. When you get as many chances to dive in the box but don't, that's respect. other plays just immediately fall down when the defender is remotely near them but robben usually doesnt unless its an obvious foul, and thats why i respect robben.

He didnt dive like Hulk did against the germany game where NO one touched him. that's diving. or actually, go watch the germany - brazil game again (i know i rewatched it) and you will see how bad all the brazilians were diving during that game. or how about no one talking about david luiz intentionally trying to kick the ball at Muller?

Did Messi deserve it? maybe, but if you are going with an Argentinian player you could argue Mascherano deserved it more because he was a superb during the knockout stage. he did had the most tackles of any players at the world cup and also were a big reason Argentina didnt give up and goals in the knockout stage until 113th? minute against Germany.

And sorry to all you brazil fans, but here's the truth: Brazil is not as good as people make them out to be. the old days of beautiful Brazilian offensive football is gone. this team barely beat croatia, was a penalty away from losing to Chile, and had to man-handle colombia in order to win.

Last edited by iEatClams; 07-19-2014 at 01:20 AM.
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