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June 12, 2014
All Our Patent Are Belong To You
By Elon Musk, CEO
Yesterday, there was a wall of Tesla patents in the lobby of our Palo Alto headquarters. That is no longer the case. They have been removed, in the spirit of the open source movement, for the advancement of electric vehicle technology.
Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.
When I started out with my first company, Zip2, I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors. After Zip2, when I realized that receiving a patent really just meant that you bought a lottery ticket to a lawsuit, I avoided them whenever possible.
At Tesla, however, we felt compelled to create patents out of concern that the big car companies would copy our technology and then use their massive manufacturing, sales and marketing power to overwhelm Tesla. We couldn’t have been more wrong. The unfortunate reality is the opposite: electric car programs (or programs for any vehicle that doesn’t burn hydrocarbons) at the major manufacturers are small to non-existent, constituting an average of far less than 1% of their total vehicle sales.
At best, the large automakers are producing electric cars with limited range in limited volume. Some produce no zero emission cars at all.
Given that annual new vehicle production is approaching 100 million per year and the global fleet is approximately 2 billion cars, it is impossible for Tesla to build electric cars fast enough to address the carbon crisis. By the same token, it means the market is enormous. Our true competition is not the small trickle of non-Tesla electric cars being produced, but rather the enormous flood of gasoline cars pouring out of the world’s factories every day.
We believe that Tesla, other companies making electric cars, and the world would all benefit from a common, rapidly-evolving technology platform.
Technology leadership is not defined by patents, which history has repeatedly shown to be small protection indeed against a determined competitor, but rather by the ability of a company to attract and motivate the world’s most talented engineers. We believe that applying the open source philosophy to our patents will strengthen rather than diminish Tesla’s position in this regard.
ABOUT FUCKING TIME SOMEONE DID THE RIGHT THING
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I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors.
everything is to be taken and modified freely for the sake of advancement. nothing was yours to begin with. Ideas must flow freely without restriction or ego for humanity to advance faster.
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I dont think he's doing the "right" thing
I think he can see that Tesla is going to go bust unless EVs are adopted en masse
And since EV tech is expensive to develop he's making it free for now in hopes of mass adoption (to get company's to shy away from making fuel efficient gas guzzlers) and when these company's start selling he'll call up and say 'time to pay up for future use' because his 'good faith' clause will be called into action
I think he can see that Tesla is going to go bust unless EVs are adopted en masse
And since EV tech is expensive to develop he's making it free for now in hopes of mass adoption (to get company's to shy away from making fuel efficient gas guzzlers) and when these company's start selling he'll call up and say 'time to pay up for future use' because his 'good faith' clause will be called into action
Basically it is going to be like Google Android.. there will be tons of Chinese knockoffs with crappy software that only makes the car barely useable. Most large corporations will still do their own thing.
The secret sauce is in the software in the control modules, which is not covered by patents in general.
So Tesla will become an aspirational brand when people got a taste of how yucky sub standard electric cars are and want to trade up.
Their patents like aircraft grade titanium plate to stop battery puncture.. who realistically going to use it in a corolla grade car? (besides the most obvious problem for Americans is Russia makes the vast majority of aircraft grade titanium, even the F35's titanium components are from Russia).
who cares about elon musk and who cares about his profits.
it's what he did. more people have to follow. think of the big picture, if everyone did this. or more people did...
this can be a start of something. the first of its kind. we only need another handful of same level players doing the same thing to make the world seriously considering revising patent laws.
that's all it is. the first Molotov cocktail has been thrown... more will follow.
There are tons of open source hardware out there.. they don't do much of a dent.. why?
It costs money to do real life R&D. Just even prototyping electronic hardware is out of reach for most people in a financial (much less intellectual) standpoint.
It is not about short sightedness, it is reality.. Simple fact is designing things are hard, you might risk a year in your life to figure out someone else found a solution better than you. You need realistic level of university training.. (just note most of automotive engineers in Germany have PhDs). Currently, there are other low hanging fruits to go for in ones' live.. ever wonder why nearly all Chinese foreign students go for accounting / business degrees? Working for others is a heck lot safer than spending / risking life / money on research even if the base patents are free. Actually especially if the base patents are free, that means Tesla will get your improvements for free and since they have a larger industrial base (eg their Panasonic batteries), you just do their leg work for them. Pat on the back or a shout out on TWTR doesn't put meals on the table.. just like +1 on Facebook from Tesla saying how great your contribution are, despite what young hipsters tell you.
Nearly all parts of Tesla have tolerances that are higher than human can do.. eg their motor winding wires are distinctly shaped to maximize the electrical field. Musk knows there wont' be any "garage hobbyist" without a huge financial background like his to compete.
I can see companies like Little Rice, Oppo jumping on the bandwagon, where automotive safety standards are weak. Individuals actually contributing meaningfully with nothing but a shed? Not a fat chance.
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Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma
so near sighted guys.
who cares about elon musk and who cares about his profits.
it's what he did. more people have to follow. think of the big picture, if everyone did this. or more people did...
this can be a start of something. the first of its kind. we only need another handful of same level players doing the same thing to make the world seriously considering revising patent laws.
that's all it is. the first Molotov cocktail has been thrown... more will follow.
who cares about elon musk and who cares about his profits.
it's what he did. more people have to follow. think of the big picture, if everyone did this. or more people did...
this can be a start of something. the first of its kind. we only need another handful of same level players doing the same thing to make the world seriously considering revising patent laws.
that's all it is. the first Molotov cocktail has been thrown... more will follow.
+1 its not about just money and profit
if our society can reduce its dependence on oil, our world would improve by a factor of x999999
While it is a good sentiment to have.. Canada can eliminate our dependence on oil via electrification.. but China, USA, Australia? without opening the nuclear option? Not really.
Besides imagine the GDP hit Canada will take if we take oil out of the equation, perhaps you were too young for the oil crash in Ab.
Imagine the teacher union strike + unemployed people in Alberta, Sask or BC Fort McMurray. I won't say it will improve the society x999999. It is not about money and profit, it is about how do you deal with large scale unemployment, while your tax revenue dries up. Retrain everyone to have P.Eng, so they can work on the Tesla patents?
I am not saying opening the patents is bad, but the expectations you guys are spewing is plain unrealistic in short to medium term (ie one's lifetime).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Vicious
+1 its not about just money and profit
if our society can reduce its dependence on oil, our world would improve by a factor of x999999
No Musk basically owns Tesla. The outstanding stock is just a small portion for smiles and giggles.
Fisker bet on the wrong battery company (A123). That's what caused its downfall. Musk collaborates with Panasonic, pretty much the largest rechargeable battery manufacturer by volume in the world. If they go under, we would worry more than Tesla.
Another thing, yes you can download the patents, but you pretty much need to have a Tesla to test out your ideas. So that will be +1 on the sales column for Tesla. (I would say more than +1 more like 2).
It is not like software where you can download things into a VM and run. You are talking about needed to modify a circuit board, you actually have to print out, source the parts and assemble (usually need pick and place machines). Be happy that if the board doesn't work, $2k is down the drain.
People who want to do it, have to have a certain technical and financial ability. Less messy and clean than old school hot rod shop, but you need people who knows what they are doing and I don't see a whole lot of them. Basically you are arguing against a team of EEs, who have superior tools + knowledge that they are wrong and you can do things better. It is a good and fun intellectual game, but I don't see it being realistic at this day and age where things are triple checked.
What I expect is most people will download the patents, have them on their hard discs and there they will just sit and backup. So it benefits storage companies like Seagate.
I am glad that in the future, I can get parts and diagnostics much easier than having to go to Tesla for servicing.
bringing open source to an industry that traditionally has not been...i applaud you Elon Musk
it is working for the internet (alot of underyling tech here is free and open source. ie u can see the source code and even launch an implementation of it yourself).
Big servers, data processors, website JavaScript frameworks, etc
Even Apple and its OS X. it is built on top of a FREE and open operating system underneath. Because thats how stable and sexy it is.
__________________
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[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
MacOSX is closed sourced now. For a lot of components like file sharing, they used to use Samba etc but once they are back on firm financial and manpower footing they slow down in committing source code. You can still be open source if you release the source code (eventually).
However it illustrates the key point, Musk can change his mind whenever he wants as the market suits him.
If you want to bring software into this discussion and more apt, I suggest Android. Android is probably a better example as it involves hardware and software. But Android is restrictive, eg factories that make Androids cannot have another line that make other OS. You still need to buy required patents from others.
Also don't confuse Open Source vs Free Patents. Musk is not making the software free (ie the important part of modulating different charge states), just the patents. Patent restrictions is what is making all the Chinese Android phones the same, because to save time and money, the companies buy direct from suppliers that have bought the requisite patents.
Having my career based on patents. I would say this, patents is worthless on paper and they are only worthwhile if you have the muscle (ie lawyers) to back you up.
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Originally Posted by trancehead
Even Apple and its OS X. it is built on top of a FREE and open operating system underneath. Because thats how stable and sexy it is.
I applaud him for taking this bold step. Some of the reasoning behind it though isn't so bulletproof imo.
Just take one look at China, where copyright and patent laws are basically meaningless and non-existent. Not too much creativity and inventions coming from there that aren't utter garbage.
Copyright and patents have their place and time. Will be interesting where this all leads.
He is just heading off the serviceability aspect of Tesla cars in his argument with dealerships legislation in the US.
Basically he will make the argument "People can make 3rd party components to fix the car or even go to 3rd party shop, so we are not the only game in town if your Tesla goes kaput."
From this thread obviously good PR, because people who don't really know the game like the idealistic posters of this thread is on his side. Free stuff always generate good will, no matter how useless it is. Not to mention to really explore the patents you do need a Tesla.
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Originally Posted by Teriyaki
I applaud him for taking this bold step. Some of the reasoning behind it though isn't so bulletproof imo.
Just take one look at China, where copyright and patent laws are basically meaningless and non-existent. Not too much creativity and inventions coming from there that aren't utter garbage.
Copyright and patents have their place and time. Will be interesting where this all leads.
Wasn't there issues with Tesla that their projected sales for their vehicles doesn't match the supply of batteries required to run those? They basically have to build a factory purely just for batteries?
Panasonic makes the batteries in Japan right now. They are commodity laptop batteries. Obviously it will cost a heck lot less if they open a factory in US (just material costs, not to mention labour will be lower).
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Originally Posted by highfive
Wasn't there issues with Tesla that their projected sales for their vehicles doesn't match the supply of batteries required to run those? They basically have to build a factory purely just for batteries?
MacOSX is closed sourced now. For a lot of components like file sharing, they used to use Samba etc but once they are back on firm financial and manpower footing they slow down in committing source code. You can still be open source if you release the source code (eventually).
To clarify, when i said built on top of--was alluding to Unix. But yes, MacOSX as a whole is closed source.
a takeaway from this is, open source can spawn great products--even if closed source.
sidenote lol, macOSX is free now anyways. not open source of course, but they are realizing that the money is not in the operating system platform itself but the apps that surround it.
However it illustrates the key point, Musk can change his mind whenever he wants as the market suits him.
The article does mention him giving out these patents on 'good will'. im curious: how much leeway does he have to abuse this good will?
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__________________
Quote:
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
Having my career based on patents. I would say this, patents is worthless on paper and they are only worthwhile if you have the muscle (ie lawyers) to back you up.
Quote:
I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors.
the point of this post wasn't to do with some elon musk tactic, ploy, or whatever.
it's just to state that he has opened a door which can lead to many things we cannot yet even imagine.
that being said, i support inventors and i understand they need "motivation" ($$$) to invent... but really... we're talking about a minority of a minority that actually see money flow their way.
the corporations that fund the inventors, that provide the workspace and materials, own the patents... not actual guy or team that came up with it.
Jonas Salk did the right thing.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 06-12-2014 at 04:46 PM.
I would say plenty. If the current GM "fiasco" is anything to go by, their ignition recall increased their sales because people rather trade in. It can be used as something to get people in the door. Once you used his patents, he changes his mind, he can change very little to make things incompatible. People might not like it and will have to buy something new again, but they would do it because that's all they know.
eg Different batteries chemistries have different charging curves. he can move to a different chemistries on the guise of "oh it is better"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by trancehead
The article does mention him giving out these patents on 'good will'. im curious: how much leeway does he have to abuse this good will?
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