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Old 06-12-2014, 05:58 PM   #26
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There are plenty of "many other things" that can lead to things we cannot yet imagine. eg Fusion, sub atomic magnetic or even gravity.

The problem is his patents are not unique inventions, there are plenty of people that have electrified their own cars. It is the sum of his patents + the software behind it + money, that makes Tesla work.

What comment about opening doors I think belittles efforts by other people who do electrification before Musk came along, and they are people who are truly work from their garage with analog electronics and controls.


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Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
the point of this post wasn't to do with some elon musk tactic, ploy, or whatever.

it's just to state that he has opened a door which can lead to many things we cannot yet even imagine.

that being said, i support inventors and i understand they need "motivation" ($$$) to invent... but really... we're talking about a minority of a minority that actually see money flow their way.

the corporations that fund the inventors, that provide the workspace and materials, own the patents... not actual guy or team that came up with it.

Jonas Salk did the right thing.
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:59 PM   #27
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Seems like a pretty cynical view of his motives.
I dont think so, I think its just a realistic view after all growth has been dismal and
Tesla was recently given Junk Bond status, they're in over $2bn of debt
Musk has admitted that he's hoping EV Battery standards will be adopted, naturally matching his tech, and what better way to get that across than having his tech adopted?
Also if he was serious he wouldn't have noted his patents are open if used on "good faith"

And as noted EV tech is expensive it's cheaper for automakers to go for highly fuel efficient gas cars, and the market shows that this is the path automakers are taking.

so i dont think im being cynical i think im just seeing it for what it is

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Old 06-12-2014, 06:02 PM   #28
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Actually I am one of the people who invented stuff and filed patents for them during my grad school era. That's one of the reasons I advocate the Germany education system where PhD for engineering students for free, because that's state paying for your education and time for invention, rest of your career you can focus on building businesses. It was one of my lawyer friends that urged me to do it, basically I get 80/20. The patents gave me a comfortable life and ability to invest in things. I am more than happy with his advice to "enrich".

The way I see, it is it is a have and have not situation, except the value is on the applicability of a patent (not like a song you can just copy and sing). The issue is, Tesla's patents is not the only way to electrification, Continental, Bosch etc have their own unique way, not to mention Denso, Aisan and BYD. The only thing Tesla has is marketting and since they don't have IC engines, they can bet all on electrification so the supercharging stations.

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I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors.

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Old 06-12-2014, 06:21 PM   #29
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Elon Musk sounds like something you'd smell at a robot gangbang
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:51 PM   #30
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First bitcoin, now this. Folks, the post-internet "next step" is taking place and we get to witness it
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:45 PM   #31
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From a business perspective, I think it's a brilliant move.

Tesla is investing billions into battery manufacturing. By opening its IP portfolio, whether it would attract new players into the field remains a question. But if it does, Tesla would ultimately benefit greatly from it.

1 - Tesla sells battery. And you can't have an electric car without a battery or some sort of electricity storage.

2 - Tesla sells EV-cars. But any EV-car specific part on a Tesla is pretty much made-to-suit. By attracting major players into the field, they would be able to bring the scale of EV-car parts by a magnitud Tesla can't achieve by itself.

3 - Free advertising!
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:52 PM   #32
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:40 PM   #33
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A while back I posted about a documentary called "who killed the electric car" and in it GM had this model called EV or EV1/EV2, I can't quite remember. Anyway, the point was, the big fuel corps (Shell, Texaco, etc.) made fuel so cheap it was cheaper to run a hummer than to buy water and essentially killed the EV. They even had celebs driving EV's for publicity. GM recalled all the EV's and scrapped them.

The point is, the giant corporations will decide when EV's will be the 99% of global sales... not consumers.

Kind of like how MS will always package IE with windows but everyone of us knows that Chrome/FireFox (I believe both are open source) are so much better! Essentially, for the average non tech user, MS has decided IE is the way to go.. so similar to EV and regular cars.

That being said, I hope more corps will follow through but I don't see it happening. I am hoping to be proven wrong though..
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:49 PM   #34
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lol considering all the patent trolls out there etc. and everyone else's seemingly inability to make a desirable electric vehicle I feel exactly as Ulic does. I think you guys arent giving nearly enough credit for the idea of it as a whole, no shit somone in their garage isnt going to be building a model S. It contributes to the idea of a whole that progress is better than stagnation

BTW not really up to date with Tesla as a business, but was just in Europe for 2 months and there are model S's -everywhere- so they seem to be doing reasonably well
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:01 PM   #35
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A while back I posted about a documentary called "who killed the electric car" and in it GM had this model called EV or EV1/EV2, I can't quite remember. Anyway, the point was, the big fuel corps (Shell, Texaco, etc.) made fuel so cheap it was cheaper to run a hummer than to buy water and essentially killed the EV. They even had celebs driving EV's for publicity. GM recalled all the EV's and scrapped them.

The point is, the giant corporations will decide when EV's will be the 99% of global sales... not consumers.

Kind of like how MS will always package IE with windows but everyone of us knows that Chrome/FireFox (I believe both are open source) are so much better! Essentially, for the average non tech user, MS has decided IE is the way to go.. so similar to EV and regular cars.

That being said, I hope more corps will follow through but I don't see it happening. I am hoping to be proven wrong though..
That's exactly why we're seeing things like this. Oil companies are fucking us over, so we have to open the patents to change that system. Banks are fucking us over, so we have to change that system as well. The old way is dying, and it's dying fast. People are waking up.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:05 PM   #36
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First bitcoin, now this. Folks, the post-internet "next step" is taking place and we get to witness it
How are bitcoins, and one company eliminating its patents "the next step".

Unless of course this "next step" you are referencing is a the building of a bullshit economy based on someones hopes and dreams, and a company releasing its tech from its patents. If this is the next step you reference, then yes you are right, we are witnessing it.

You have a bitcoin thread and I am banned from it, keep that discussion there.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:10 AM   #37
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I don't think OSX is free. You can only install it on Apple computers. I can't build a computer and put OSX on it and sell it.
Yes you can, you can build hackintoshes from pc parts, install OSX and sell them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:36 AM   #38
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That's exactly why we're seeing things like this. Oil companies are fucking us over, so we have to open the patents to change that system. Banks are fucking us over, so we have to change that system as well. The old way is dying, and it's dying fast. People are waking up.
Banks are fucking us over? How exactly? I pay zero fees and have unlimited use of my debit cards because I keep a minimum balance. I pay off my credit card each month and again pay no interest. On top of that, I collect points so I'm actually making money using my credit cards that I usually redeem on free airfare. My car loan is only costing me 0.9% interest. My deposits at my banks are fully insured so if the bank did go under (an extremely unlikely event) I'm covered.

I'm just not seeing how I'm getting "fucked over" by banks. Perhaps you know of an alternative system that offers me better rates, lower fees (lower than zero) and will let me borrow their money at ridiculously low interest rates all while guaranteeing my deposists.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:56 AM   #39
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Banks are fucking us over? How exactly? I pay zero fees and have unlimited use of my debit cards because I keep a minimum balance. I pay off my credit card each month and again pay no interest. On top of that, I collect points so I'm actually making money using my credit cards that I usually redeem on free airfare. My car loan is only costing me 0.9% interest. My deposits at my banks are fully insured so if the bank did go under (an extremely unlikely event) I'm covered.

I'm just not seeing how I'm getting "fucked over" by banks. Perhaps you know of an alternative system that offers me better rates, lower fees (lower than zero) and will let me borrow their money at ridiculously low interest rates all while guaranteeing my deposists.
If you think banking is limited to the branch you walk into that holds your savings and loans you a few thousand dollars, you need to open your eyes a bit.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:58 AM   #40
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Lame move by someone ready to go the same way as Fisker. The automotive industry is filled with countless patents owned not only by the manufacturers (like Ford and Toyota), but also by the countless suppliers that make components (Valeo, SKF, Borg Warner, ZF, Bosch, Siemens, Delphi - the list is endless).

And they have all done well and built successful vehicles with the current patent system. Tesla is a lightweight in terms of patents. Most of any Tesla vehicle is built using parts from these suppliers. Tesla has a few patents on things like charging, batteries, power distribution and so on. Just like all the major manufacturers do. And numerous other companies that have been building electric vehicles long before Tesla existed (like forklift companies) also have a lot of patents on technology related to electric propulsion. Even the high frequency motor drives used in a Tesla have been around forever in other industries (like factories or assembly lines).

This is more like a last-ditch effort to get things standardized like charging stations or battery technology. Tesla does not own the electric car industry, nor do they own the majority of the technology involved. They are a minor player who have managed to build some good cars using a bit of their technology and a lot of everyone elses technology.



This reminds me of Google self-driving cars. Google has done a good job of making people believe (incorrectly) that they are a pioneer of self-driving cars while ignoring the HUGE contributions in technology that they are standing on. But that's another topic altogether.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:03 AM   #41
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If you think banking is limited to the branch you walk into that holds your savings and loans you a few thousand dollars, you need to open your eyes a bit.
That's all you've got? You can't whine about the banking system unless you can show harm. So please show me where I've somehow suffered because of the "system".
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:31 AM   #42
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That's all you've got? You can't whine about the banking system unless you can show harm. So please show me where I've somehow suffered because of the "system".
Bit busy lately, not much time other than to make a few quick posts here and there.

I will say, where were you in 2008? Not paying attention?
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:30 AM   #43
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That's all you've got? You can't whine about the banking system unless you can show harm. So please show me where I've somehow suffered because of the "system".
If you have time, watch the movie called "Margin Call" it's a great movie on how the banking sector fucked the world...knowingly. The movie is based on a true story which started the 2008 fiasco.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:38 AM   #44
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If you have time, watch the movie called "Margin Call" it's a great movie on how the banking sector fucked the world...knowingly. The movie is based on a true story which started the 2008 fiasco.
Also the documentary "Inside Job"

I'm not going to shit on someone for not knowing what is going on.. not that much.. you really should though because it's quite relevant. Because holy shit, to think banks are great because you got a good deal on a car loan... man there's more to this world than your car loan.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:38 AM   #45
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Banks are fucking us over? How exactly? I pay zero fees and have unlimited use of my debit cards because I keep a minimum balance. I pay off my credit card each month and again pay no interest. On top of that, I collect points so I'm actually making money using my credit cards that I usually redeem on free airfare. My car loan is only costing me 0.9% interest. My deposits at my banks are fully insured so if the bank did go under (an extremely unlikely event) I'm covered.

I'm just not seeing how I'm getting "fucked over" by banks. Perhaps you know of an alternative system that offers me better rates, lower fees (lower than zero) and will let me borrow their money at ridiculously low interest rates all while guaranteeing my deposists.
1) Think of the aggregate of these minimum balances. They're being loaned out to make money off you.

2) Businesses pays the credit card fees. In the end, they factor that into their prices, so you're kidding yourself if you think you're making money off them.

3) Your deposits are only insured up to $100,000 by the CDIC, not the bank.

4) Unfortunately, banks aren't the ones setting interest rates, that's what the central bank is for.

By no means does this mean banks are fucking you over. But they're still a business and they're not handing out these freebies/perks for nothing; some of which has nothing to do with them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:47 AM   #46
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You guys are thinking way too small scale, talking about credit card fees and car loans. I'll have to find a nice concise blog post or video or something, because it's not just a matter of banks screwing people over with high fees or whatever.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge, but I'll look for something tomorrow.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:03 AM   #47
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What the fuck do banks have to do with Tesla's patents?
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:51 PM   #48
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this is a good move.... the more people move to electric, more infrastructure will be built. Tesla would benefit from this too.... much more than the other companies since tesla is all in on electric.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:20 PM   #49
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Since Apple transitioned the Macintosh to an Intel platform in 2006, and subsequent to a major increase in visibility and a gain in computer market share for Apple with the success of the iPod, large computer system manufacturers such as Dell have expressed renewed interest in creating Macintosh clones.[15] While various industry executives, notably Michael Dell, have stated publicly that they would like to sell Macintosh-compatible computers, Apple VP Phil Schiller said the company does not plan to let people run Mac OS X on other computer makers' hardware. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said.[16]
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:35 PM   #50
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I am glad to see a lot of people that usually only focus on the details of things, are finally looking at the greater whole.
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