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Relationship & Gender DiscussionTHIS SPACE OPEN FOR ADVERTISEMENT. YOU SHOULD BE ADVERTISING HERE! The thin line between love and hate
Mature discussion about understanding the opposite sex...
I was having a conversation with a friend recently. He’s about my age, he’s single, and he is, I can attest, an all around good dude. I hadn’t seen him in a while, so I asked about the status of his love life. He told me that he’s currently ‘hanging out’ with someone.
“What do you mean?” I asked.
“Well, we’ve hung out a few times. She’s great.”
“OK, so are you guys going out? Is she your girlfriend?”
“No. I don’t think so. But we’re hanging out. We’re talking.”
“Well, of course you’re speaking to each other. Do you talk to her on the phone? Do you see her a lot?”
“No, we mostly text. I’ve seen her a few times since we started hanging out.”
“So you only recently met her?”
“No, I’ve known her for a while, but we’ve only hung out a few times.”
“You never hung out with her before?”
“I did. But, I mean, since we started… Since we, you know, whatever.”
I left that conversation confused, because confusion is the name of the game these days. Everyone is confused. Being single means being confused. Everyone is so confused that they don’t even know what words to use when describing their relationships. USA Today did a survey of singles a while back, and they discovered something that’s been apparent for years: nobody has any idea what’s going on in their own love lives. Close to 70 percent don’t know if they’re on a date when they go on a date.
I guess that’s because most of you are too busy “hanging out.”
What is that, guys? How old are we?
It went from courting, to dating, to hanging out. Sometimes even hanging out reeks of too much commitment, in which case ‘talking’ can be used. And if talking sounds too serious, maybe we’ll start hearing ‘vicinitizing.’ That’s a word I just made up, and it means that you and your female friend are often in the same vicinity, but it doesn’t get all intense by insinuating that you’re actually in that general location together on purpose.
When did men become so afraid to make a commitment, to take the lead, to say what they want, to make long term plans, to set goals, to pursue, to talk about the future?
We are devolving into primates, losing the ability to even discuss our own behavior using words and sentences. The average single American man is now relegated to grunts and shrugs and ‘whatevers’ and ‘you knows’ when pressed to have a conversation about his dating habits. Or his vicinity habits. Or his whatever habits, because whatever, you know?
‘Hanging out’ is how we describe what we do with our buddies. Is that what you want? Do you want that beautiful woman to be your buddy? Or would you ideally prefer it if you could distinguish between your relationship with her and your relationship with your friend Steve?
I know you might tell me you can decipher between the two based on who you’re hooking up with, but I think that’s a problem. And, speaking of which, let’s chill with the ‘hooking up’ thing.
That phrase makes you sound like a teenager. Grown men relying on the vague, timid code words of high school freshmen. It’s embarrassing.
Time to end the nonsense, gentlemen. It’s time to be grown ups. It’s time to be men. I know this term really offends a lot of people nowadays, but truly, fellas, let’s man up.
Trust me, I’m not innocent. I’m married now, but I was once a part of this hazy, undefined dating-but-not-dating scene. I never liked it, because nobody does. I never found any happiness in it, because nobody does. But I was a part of the problem. I was a wimpy manchild, afraid of meaningful commitments, afraid of being alone, afraid of rejection, afraid of the future, afraid of being betrayed, afraid of being loved. Just afraid, really. Afraid of everything.
Then, one day, I met Alissa. She was looking for a grown man, and I was sick of playing games. We were both exhausted. So do you know what we did very early in our relationship?
We defined our terms.
We made our goals clear.
We were open with each other.
We spoke about the future.
We used words like ‘marriage.’
We were clear and convicted and purpose driven. I had ambitions for our relationship. Ambitions. I, like, had an idea about what I was doing and why I was doing it. Can you believe it? I was in it for a reason. I wanted it to become something.
See, I’d been floating like aimless debris through an ocean of cloudy intentions and half-heartedness, until I grew up and realized that romance isn’t a game, and most women aren’t frivolous bimbos. They want men who know what they want and aren’t afraid to verbalize it. And if they don’t want that, then they aren’t worth your energy. Get out now. If she still wants to pretend she’s in tenth grade, let her live that fantasy with someone else.
With Alissa, things were pretty clear from the get-go. We had a relationship. A real, live relationship. A few months into it, I proposed. Some people wait longer, which is fine. We’re all on our own schedule. But I promise you, despite popular sentiments, it doesn’t take a decade and a half to figure things out.
I had several failed dating ‘situations’ before I got married. Some collapsed within months, others took considerably longer. But all of them were eventually destroyed by problems that were clearly evident in the first, I don’t know, five minutes or so.
And, yes, I get it. Our disastrous modern approach to dating (or whatever) isn’t all the fault of men. But there’s no point in parceling out the blame. All you can do, single dudes, is get your own selves together. Take the lead.
Here’s some brutal honesty for you: if you ‘aren’t ready for something serious,’ then you need to go get yourself ready and leave these ladies alone until you do. You can’t go out and have sex (I mean, ‘hook up,’ as the middle schoolers at the lunch table might call it) and then claim that you ‘aren’t ready for something serious.’ It’s too late, friend. Sex is something serious.
Can you imagine if an airline pilot pulled that kind of stunt?
“Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. I just want to tell you that, like, I don’t want things to get weird or whatever, but I’m not really into being a captain right now. I mean, yeah, I chose to take a plane full of souls up 32 thousand feet into the air at a cruising speed of 600 miles per hour, but I don’t want you think that this is, like, official, you know? I’ve got your lives in my hands, but I don’t want this to get serious. In fact, actually, look, I’m just gonna bail now. I’ve got my parachute. You don’t but that’s your problem. I got what I wanted out of this. So, uh, yeah. Bye. Enjoy your fiery demise!”
Only, for this analogy to work, the captain would send that in a text message, because he lacks even the fortitude to verbalize it.
If you’re a grown man, get serious. What are you waiting for? You’re an adult now. It’s go time. Recess is over. If you still aren’t ready to be serious about love, that’s OK, but just stay out of it entirely in the meantime.
No matter what anyone does, or says, or thinks; no matter what we tell ourselves; no matter what society insists, romantic relationships are always serious business. Call it what you want — hanging out, talking, dating — there’s a woman’s heart involved in it. That means you have a responsibility, alright? You have a duty as a human being, as an adult, as a man.
She’s making herself vulnerable to you. You need to honor that, protect it. And if you aren’t looking for anything but cheap sex and another trophy of sexual conquest to hang on the wall in your studio apartment, then you need to protect her from yourself, because you’ll be bringing nothing but disappointment and chaos into her life.
Listen, there’s a lot of joy and love you’re missing out on when you spend years tumbling like a ball of weeds from one opaque hang out session to another. I know this from experience.
If you’re hanging out with a woman and you feel like you might be into her, tell her. Call her on the phone. Take her out on a date. Say the words: “I’d like to take you out.” No ambiguity. Plan the date yourself. Women want you to be decisive. Lose the whole “so waddaya wanna do tonight?” schtick. Take charge. Pick her up at 7. Pay for the meal. Have a conversation with her. Go mini golfing or something. Go somewhere. Open the door for her. Put your phone away. Open up to her. Share your ideas, your dreams, your fears. Get to know her. Pursue her. Pursue her. Invest yourself in the process, as scary and unsure as it may seem. Take a risk, gentlemen. Go out on a limb for once. Be purposeful. Be desirable. Be a man.
You wouldn’t go into a job interview and tell the interviewer that you aren’t sure if you want the job, and you don’t want to even talk about the job because it freaks you out and gives you a tummy ache, would you? So don’t do that to the women you’re dating, or hanging out with, or talking to, or whatever.
In the old days, they called it courting. It was a lot like dating, but with more of a point and less confusion. Maybe we should get back to that strategy.
Enough with hanging out and hooking up. We’re grown men. They’re grown women. They deserve more, and so do you.
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
there's a whole lot to what courting is back in the days and what it is now. We men can man up, but mofo chicks also gotta buckle in and really understand where they stand.
they need to know what they want, and understand when a guy is courting you that you RESPOND.
I'm a grown man so I decided to man up with a girl I've chilled with for 9 months. Wasn't even afraid of doing it, I just knew it was something I had to do.
And, yeah... I haven't hung out with her in a month now.
I'm a grown man so I decided to man up with a girl I've chilled with for 9 months. Wasn't even afraid of doing it, I just knew it was something I had to do.
And, yeah... I haven't hung out with her in a month now.
i give you props for that.
even if it didnt work, you at least made clear your intentions. instead of wasting say--another 9 months
on another note (not directing this at you jello24):
the most common problem i see with guys is that they fall into a friendzone because they do not make their intentions clear upfront.
or they are just too NICE. they basically become the girl's bitch:
-picking them up at a whim
-buying them food and delivering it
-doing homework for them
-becoming a sounding board for all of the girls problems (which very often include other guys shes seeing)
as Alex Burrows said: 'give your balls a tug'
All humans have a predatory sense. not that we are inherently evil, but there is a natural sense of who is an easy ride and who commands respect in the room. Command some decent amount of respect as you would in any part of your life (work, nutrition, the way you dress) and apply it to your dealings with potential mates
As with any meaningful relationship, it needs to be a two way street. in terms of what you bring in intellect, power balance, and interest
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Quote:
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
I make it a point to be clear and ask a girl to be my girlfriend (or not) by one month after starting to casually date. It's just common courtesy, you don't want to start your relationship off on the wrong foot by leaving a girl that you're interested in confused and anxious. I get pissed when other guys don't do this.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Girl ^ Yes it's sad when you stare at the shape of my penis through my overly skin tight jeans and not help but feel like a shameful little boy compared to me.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trancehead
i give you props for that.
even if it didnt work, you at least made clear your intentions. instead of wasting say--another 9 months
on another note (not directing this at you jello24):
the most common problem i see with guys is that they fall into a friendzone because they do not make their intentions clear upfront.
or they are just too NICE. they basically become the girl's bitch:
-picking them up at a whim
-buying them food and delivering it
-doing homework for them
-becoming a sounding board for all of the girls problems (which very often include other guys shes seeing)
as Alex Burrows said: 'give your balls a tug'
All humans have a predatory sense. not that we are inherently evil, but there is a natural sense of who is an easy ride and who commands respect in the room. Command some decent amount of respect as you would in any part of your life (work, nutrition, the way you dress) and apply it to your dealings with potential mates
As with any meaningful relationship, it needs to be a two way street. in terms of what you bring in intellect, power balance, and interest
You can blame the book Mars and Mars and Women are Venus. Basically that book teaches guys to be the women bitches..... Is funny coz during at interview of the author he even stated some women are complaining to him that after their BF/Husband read the book they basically have no balls left.
You can blame the book Mars and Mars and Women are Venus. Basically that book teaches guys to be the women bitches..... Is funny coz during at interview of the author he even stated some women are complaining to him that after their BF/Husband read the book they basically have no balls left.
funny because i was just recommended by a female to read that book. she said it is a bible for helping her understand her relationship.
anyways, as "bitch boy" promoting as that book may be (i have not read it), i think the root of this problem is deeply ingrained in Western society. having said that, it is hard to pinpoint or even make comparisions to what a "non feminized" society would appear to operate like as we have been programmed in this fashion already.
a good analogy is: say you only have one native language (English). it is hard to understand/ make comparisions to the cultural context behind your actions, thoughts, speech since it is the only form of programming that you know. --but say you were to pick up another language from a vastly different culture (Japanese). you can now begin to understand the mode of thinking and why people of a different culture would behave/act/think in a different way.
There is a whole set of different underlying values that propagate to the visible surface. Think of past philosophers (eg Plato, Hobbs, Confuscious), Events (Vietnam War) and such...these all profoundly shape culture.
i may be wrong, but i think it is generally seen in Eastern european countries or even Japan where there is less or non Feminism.
Try living and experiencing the culture (you really need to understand the language. as language --> culture) to really be able to contrast and articulate the differences in say, a feminized culture
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Quote:
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
I think the author makes an erroneous assumption that all women want a relationship all of the time, when in fact, they sometimes just want to date, be wined and dined, and sleep with a guy because it makes them feel good (if just temporarily).
But, he is right in that men do need to man up and tell women what they want (whether it's a relationship, or a short-term thing).
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca
I think the author makes an erroneous assumption that all women want a relationship all of the time, when in fact, they sometimes just want to date, be wined and dined, and sleep with a guy because it makes them feel good (if just temporarily).
But, he is right in that men do need to man up and tell women what they want (whether it's a relationship, or a short-term thing).
Man got to man up, have confidence in themselves, be the guy women can lean on, and have his own space. Don't need to call the girl every 5mins. I do my own thing and sometimes even I saw a girl message me, I ingore it because I am enjoying what I am doing now. If they want a response now they will call, message means they don't really care when you get back to them. So why get back right away? It only shows you have nothing better to do.
Seeing a girl now and I never ever text her back right away. I think one time I left my phone at home while I went out. Came home and saw tons of message and just let her know I left my phone charging and I am going to sleep. Got her more interested as to what I did last night.
There is a line between being an asshole and being confidence. Girls wants to date guys with confidence but not assholes. I think too many man are being the girl bitch and hoping this will get the girl. You can be nice but make your intentions clear and never ever lose yourself. I used to be the nice guy and that lead me nowhere, now I make my intentions clear and if the girl saids no, move on.
Last edited by Mr.HappySilp; 07-03-2014 at 01:58 PM.
wow you give it a month? If I start talking/texting a girl I want to meet her in the first week. I'm not here to waste my time texting someone all day for weeks and finally meet them and it doesn't work out. Man the fuck up meet them right away so you don't wast each others time.
I have an acquaintance tell me that I'm too direct with people esp girls.
He's close to his 40s and still single.
a real women likes when you are direct and to the point. Most women have been fucked around a lot and want the direct approach from a man. Trust me it works every time and normally they younger they are the better it will work!!
a real women likes when you are direct and to the point. Most women have been fucked around a lot and want the direct approach from a man. Trust me it works every time and normally they younger they are the better it will work!!
Show a women respect and that you are an honorable guy and be firm and too the point and Asian women love that. You gotta be smooth and do it by not acting/sounding like a prick.
Lol I'm with Murdoc. I make sure I see her at least 3 days after I got her number. Make it known that I want to see her again. By the third date try to chill at my place and make a move. Let's be real here, if they're willing to see you the third time they obviously like you.
funny because i was just recommended by a female to read that book. she said it is a bible for helping her understand her relationship.
anyways, as "bitch boy" promoting as that book may be (i have not read it), i think the root of this problem is deeply ingrained in Western society. having said that, it is hard to pinpoint or even make comparisions to what a "non feminized" society would appear to operate like as we have been programmed in this fashion already.
a good analogy is: say you only have one native language (English). it is hard to understand/ make comparisions to the cultural context behind your actions, thoughts, speech since it is the only form of programming that you know. --but say you were to pick up another language from a vastly different culture (Japanese). you can now begin to understand the mode of thinking and why people of a different culture would behave/act/think in a different way.
There is a whole set of different underlying values that propagate to the visible surface. Think of past philosophers (eg Plato, Hobbs, Confuscious), Events (Vietnam War) and such...these all profoundly shape culture.
i may be wrong, but i think it is generally seen in Eastern european countries or even Japan where there is less or non Feminism.
Try living and experiencing the culture (you really need to understand the language. as language --> culture) to really be able to contrast and articulate the differences in say, a feminized culture
don't know why some of you think is a feminize society. Woman still make less wages than men, majority of woman still don't have a life beside taking care of their family. Its still frown upon for woman to partake in a lot of thing, woman are still shun in a lot of jobs. woman still face a lot more domestic violence than man. Woman's desirable goes down with age yet man goes up. Its still a man's world no matter how you put it.
the only thing getting more feminize in this society is a portion of man. Stop blaming the society if you can't get girls. Imagine going through life as an ugly girl fat girls, no matter how hard you work in your life there will always be a portion of your life that sucks because your an ugly fat girl lol.
look at all many GUY billionaire that are living the baller lifestyle with beautiful woman by their side. Look how many of them are ugly, bald, fat and visually not very appealing
To clairfy A feminist society is basically where:
Woman have more overt control/sway/influence over their male counterparts.
just look at some of the group dynamics where there are both males and females.
A more balanced/equal society is one where both sexes have it almost in harmony
And for the most part of the world's history, it has been where men have had their say predominately.
--not a raging sexist but a realist. Men and Women both have their respective strengths and weakness. and when coming in harmony or when it comes to meshing our pillars of strength, i think there is some good to come out from it. Ying and Yang, Pheonix and dragon, 0 and 1.
don't know why some of you think is a feminize society. Woman still make less wages than men, If you look at most stats, its pretty damn close for most fields
majority of woman still don't have a life beside taking care of their family. Dont have a life? we are talking about North America. Most partners in a marriage are working. not the East.
Its still frown upon for woman to partake in a lot of thing, woman are still shun in a lot of jobs. shunned maybe for more rural jobs, but anything urban or in the city is very well represented by woman. especially retail.
woman still face a lot more domestic violence than man. that is probably true
Woman's desirable goes down with age yet man goes up. That is just the fact of life.
Its still a man's world no matter how you put it. not quite
the only thing getting more feminize in this society is a portion of man. lol. men are a part of society. they make up society. so you just agreed with the notion that society is becoming more feminized.
Stop blaming the society if you can't get girls. No one here is blaming society. But it is imperative to realize and identify the circumstance we are in if you want to be able to navigate about.
Imagine going through life as an ugly girl fat girls, no matter how hard you work in your life there will always be a portion of your life that sucks because your an ugly fat girl lol.
look at all many GUY billionaire that are living the baller lifestyle with beautiful woman by their side. Look how many of them are ugly, bald, fat and visually not very appealing
case close.
well yes obscenely rich men can get anything they want. and that includes women. doesnt negate the fact that North America is very much feminized
and no the case is not closed. take a deep breath and read it all over
response is bolded
__________________
Quote:
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
Last edited by trancehead; 07-22-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Anyone who assumes that the same approach will work for every man/woman is a fucking idiot.
there are some good guidelines and maxims in this thread, but you are right in that the same approach cannot work for everycase/everyone
only the person themself knows the exact context of the situation. and only they themselves are aware of their own comfort zones of what they can do
relationships are so very dynamic. it is the hope that any advice given not be blindly followed, but allows the reader to really reflect on their circumstance. Like the movie inception -- people need to come up with their own realizations.
__________________
Quote:
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
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