REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

fliptuner · 03-02-2015, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rriggi

Weapons = used against people

Firearms = device used for target practice

Always when asked by an officer if you have weapons, correct them and say no, I have firearms, personal experience.

This is my rifle, this is my gun.
This is for fighting, this is for fun.

underscore · 03-02-2015, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRS

I'm not arguing that firearms can't be used as weapons, I'm saying that firearms, like knives, are inadvertently tools/equipment.

Firearms aren't exactly as multifunctional as knives though. In the most basic sense it's a tool for very effectively exerting a lot of force on a small area from a distance, but that's about it.

BoostedBB6 · 03-02-2015, 10:01 PM

Would change the tile from weapon to bow or something. Weapons = kill people.

As for bows. I have a few.
Old fiberglass re-curve from my grandfather when he was in his 20's. Martin Super Diablo 55lb, a Quest Drive Flux 70lb and a Barnet Rage crossbow.
Used to be really into archery but only get out once a year now...if im lucky.

BrRsn · 03-02-2015, 10:07 PM

fuckin chop u

AzNightmare · 03-03-2015, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRS

I'm not arguing that firearms can't be used as weapons, I'm saying that firearms, like knives, are inadvertently tools/equipment.

This is how I personally classify the terms.

Weapon = something made primarily to cause harm. Example: firearms, bow and arrow, swords, combat knife, ninja stars
Tool = something made primarily to help make a task easier (other than to cause harm) Example: butcher knife, butter knife, axe, machete, baseball bat, flare guns

But here's the thing. You can use a weapon as a tool, such as using firearms to legally hunt.
And of course, you can also use tools, like a machete, as a weapon.
You can also use a sporting equipment, such as a baseball bat, and modify it to change it's intent to a weapon by simply putting nails in it.

Manic! · 03-03-2015, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRS

I'm not arguing that firearms can't be used as weapons, I'm saying that firearms, like knives, are inadvertently tools/equipment.

What about nukes or enriched uranium?

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 12:23 PM

The action that the object is used for classifies it.
A hammer is a tool when used to drive a nail, and becomes a weapon when used to kill someone.
This does not differ. Military have weapons because there one and only purpose to have a gun is to use it to shoot at other people. A hunter or target shooter can use the same gun to participate in there sport, and at that note it becomes a tool.

Tool, something that facilitates a task. So if your task is to put holes in paper form 1000 yards, a gun would be the ideal tool.

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic!

What about nukes or enriched uranium?

A nukes one and only purpose is to take life, therefore it is a weapon.
Uranium is a substance and has many uses.

J'zed · 03-04-2015, 12:30 PM

does this count?

Manic! · 03-04-2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

A nukes one and only purpose is to take life, therefore it is a weapon.

Peaceful Nuclear Explosions | PNE

7 (Crazy) Civilian Uses for Nuclear Bombs | WIRED

Manic! · 03-04-2015, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

So if your task is to put holes in paper form 1000 yards, a gun would be the ideal tool.

1000 yards is a 1/2 a mile. I think that would be pretty far unless you are a sniper. For paper target practice a BB gun would be better because it holds a lot more ammo and is cheaper to operate.

meme405 · 03-04-2015, 01:20 PM

A knife is a tool, you can use it to cut open boxes, open letters, pry stuff, etc.

I really don't see how you can classify a firearm in the same way you classify a knife.

Many people carry pistols in the states, never have I seen them use it as a tool in any way. A gun can be used for target practice or as a hobby, and thats fine, but individuals who carry them on a daily basis are utilizing that gun for protection, and is therefore a weapon.

I carry a knife all the time, I have many, I collect them as some are pieces of art, but I also use them every day. Like I said above they have many uses in my day to day life. That's a tool.

EDIT: Yes okay if you are going hunting its a tool. You're goal is to get some food, firearm facilitates that. I was more so thinking of an EDC type scenario.

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meme405

A knife is a tool, you can use it to cut open boxes, open letters, pry stuff, etc.

I really don't see how you can classify a firearm in the same way you classify a knife.

Many people carry pistols in the states, never have I seen them use it as a tool in any way. A gun can be used for target practice or as a hobby, and thats fine, but individuals who carry them on a daily basis are utilizing that gun for protection, and is therefore a weapon.

I carry a knife all the time, I have many, I collect them as some are pieces of art, but I also use them every day. Like I said above they have many uses in my day to day life. That's a tool.

EDIT: Yes okay if you are going hunting its a tool. You're goal is to get some food, firearm facilitates that. I was more so thinking of an EDC type scenario.

So when does it cross the line from being a tool (your examples given) to a weapon (used to cut heads off in the news all over the world in the past few years). Did the knife change some how? or was it the use of that knife that changed?
Yes, if you carry a firearm it is for the protection of life. The use of the item changed, not the item. The only reason why someone would carry is to defend against another person or animal (kill), therefore making it a weapon.

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic!

1000 yards is a 1/2 a mile. I think that would be pretty far unless you are a sniper. For paper target practice a BB gun would be better because it holds a lot more ammo and is cheaper to operate.

1000 yards is far, even for a sniper haha.

But yes, I shoot F Class and have shot out to these ranges. Loads of fun (IMO). The BB gun is fun (my kids enjoy theres when we go out) but there is no replacing sending a round down range over 1/2 a mile away and hitting exactly what you intended. Very satisfying BUT expensive hobby.

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic!

Peaceful Nuclear Explosions | PNE

7 (Crazy) Civilian Uses for Nuclear Bombs | WIRED

So in these cases, the "nukes" would be a tool used to do construction. I was not aware of any uses for them, but sure enough there is.

meme405 · 03-04-2015, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

So when does it cross the line from being a tool (your examples given) to a weapon (used to cut heads off in the news all over the world in the past few years). Did the knife change some how? or was it the use of that knife that changed?
Yes, if you carry a firearm it is for the protection of life. The use of the item changed, not the item. The only reason why someone would carry is to defend against another person or animal (kill), therefore making it a weapon.

Of course it comes down to the use.

My point was that:

You can justify carrying a knife day to day by the fact that it has more uses than just killing people, of which I named off a few uses which I use my knife for every single day.

A gun which is carried as an EDC item is a weapon, it has absolutely no place in anyone's day to day life unless it is being used for protection, which still makes it a weapon.

--

A perfect example was given above, a hammer, its a tool, nobody will tell you its not a tool, but as soon as you use it to bash in someone face, everyone and their mother knows it is a weapon.

BoostedBB6 · 03-04-2015, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meme405

Of course it comes down to the use.

My point was that:

You can justify carrying a knife day to day by the fact that it has more uses than just killing people, of which I named off a few uses which I use my knife for every single day.

A gun which is carried as an EDC item is a weapon, it has absolutely no place in anyone's day to day life unless it is being used for protection, which still makes it a weapon.

--

A perfect example was given above, a hammer, its a tool, nobody will tell you its not a tool, but as soon as you use it to bash in someone face, everyone and their mother knows it is a weapon.

Agree 100%. My point is that the tools intended use is what makes it a weapon, not what the tool itself is.

Yodamaster · 03-04-2015, 05:25 PM

Knives are subjective.

You'll be questioned by police if you have a ka-bar strapped to you in public in an urban area, though a leatherman would probably be fine. It's rare for a knife to be confiscated, as the law doesn't define knives (that aren't prohib) as weapons as long as your intent isn't to cause harm.

Unloaded, unrestricted firearms actually follow the same guidelines, you can transport a 12g shotgun with you anywhere you want (except gun free zones) at any time for any reason other than to disrupt order, defend yourself or to cause harm/commit a crime.

Nobody does that because a vast majority of people aren't used to that, so you'd have paranoid cops and civilians everywhere around you.

Hondaracer · 03-04-2015, 06:49 PM

This thread wack homie

underscore · 03-04-2015, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

Knives are subjective.

You'll be questioned by police if you have a ka-bar strapped to you in public in an urban area, though a leatherman would probably be fine. It's rare for a knife to be confiscated, as the law doesn't define knives (that aren't prohib) as weapons as long as your intent isn't to cause harm.

The important part is that I believe you need to have at least part of the knife visible at all times (the clip being on the outside of your pocket counts) and if asked about any knife always refer to it as a utility knife. You can technically have throwing knives and such but if you refer to it as a throwing knife you're gonna have a bad time.

Yodamaster · 03-06-2015, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

The important part is that I believe you need to have at least part of the knife visible at all times (the clip being on the outside of your pocket counts) and if asked about any knife always refer to it as a utility knife. You can technically have throwing knives and such but if you refer to it as a throwing knife you're gonna have a bad time.

Correct, though a lot of people adhere to the idea of "out of sight, out of mind". "Legally" you have to open carry any knives you have on you, otherwise it's classified as a concealed weapon.