REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

killerz124 · 10-31-2015, 08:57 AM

Hey guys,

I've tried to do my research before posting about the reliability of MK4 VW GTI (both VR6 and 1.8t). There's mixed reviews from everything I've read, filled with good and bad.

I've also tried comparing the car to see which would be a better suited car for me. I just want to know other people's take on these two cars and how they'd compare up to a RSX type S. Do you guys think these are solid cars? Are they reliable?

I have a 2015 one and I love it, but I'm sure lots has changed from MK4 and MK7 haha.

Thanks for reading

Lomac · 10-31-2015, 01:55 PM

Early model years had an issue with the power window regulators, and the early vr6 models had coilpack recalls. Certain radio head units also seem to simply stop working. My girlfriend has a 2002 Jetta tdi. If you ignore the fact that it's currently in the middle of an engine rebuild, it's actually been otherwise reliable. The 1.8t is relatively bulletproof and easily modified if desired.

TjAlmeida · 10-31-2015, 02:18 PM

Friend of mine has a 24v vr6 and has been very good to him over the past few years. Only thing is the terrible fuel mileage he gets, maybe it's the way he drives but it's terrible.

Hot Karl · 10-31-2015, 03:23 PM

mk4's are as good as they are treated imo.

i've got a 01 1.8t. only problems i've had are standard maintenance like timing belt. when the clutch went.

very few cars in the same price range of a mk4 be it now or 10 years ago drive as good as a mk4 with a 1.8t or vr6

mine is chipped and downpipe and it's fun as hell to drive.

Traum · 10-31-2015, 03:33 PM

From a reliability point of view, the MkIV GTI absolutely cannot be compared to an RSX-S. It isn't so much that the MkIV GTI was unreliable -- in fact, I'd say the 1.8T engine itself is super reliable. But all the accessories around the engine -- the various valves, gaskets, pumps, the turbo itself, etc. -- those would all require servicing. Using my own 1.8T as an example, it developed an annual habit of eating a turbo recirculation / diverter valve starting in the 4th or 5th year of its life.

I didn't keep my service records nearly as well as I do now, but looking back into them right now, I basically had 4 warranty claims between its 3rd - 5th year of ownership. And then in it's 7th year, it had 2 additional warranty claims, one of which was a major sunroof problem that cost over $1k. Suffice to say, I bought the car with the longest extended warranty that was offered, and I came out winning in that particular arrangement. That said, the car has never left me stranded, but it is a German car, and will require service and maintenance levels that are representative of German vehicles.

If at all possible, you'd want to find as late a model as you can. The later cars come with 180hp right out of the box, and I seem to think that it wasn't just a matter of VW turning up the boost levels. I'd also avoid the 01-02 cars at a minimum, as I think those were the years when the MkIV cars had the most reliability woes.

Also, don't forget that the MkIV cars run on a rear beam axle. The RSX-S' IRS isn't that much better, but I suppose it is still a slight improvement.

If you are considering the GTI against the RSX-S, take into consideration the style of driving that you prefer. The 1.8T GTI has a very nice mid range torque curve, and that is fantastic for general street use and recreational spirited driving, but it starts to run out of breath when you get into the higher revs. You can slap some free flowing exhaust to improve the high end flow, but then you'd be sacrificing the low end and mid range, and I'd say that goes against the nature and preference of the engine. With the RSX-S, on the other hand, it has a nice enough mid-range, but where it really shines is how willing it is to rev, and how incredible that high end is.

Think about which kind of poison you like better, and go for that.

Acethriller · 10-31-2015, 06:21 PM

I've owned an '01 1.8t. Didn't have to do any repairs under my ownership, all the electronics worked flawlessly, no issues. There were some pricey maintenance stuff the previous owner did, but they were done at the dealership.

!Aznboi128 · 10-31-2015, 07:42 PM

I had a 2000 Jetta.

Power windows didn't work, power mirrors didn't work. Radio didn't work.

I had the 2.0 so the engine with its 8 valves was working till a coil pack went (literally after the warranty)

Car was purchased brand new from vw and we owned it for 6 years and then sold it for 2k with an engine that doesn't turn over. And it wasn't neglected, the car had dealer maintenance.

Traum · 10-31-2015, 07:49 PM

I should also add that my 1.8T wasn't neglected either. I never cheaped out on maintenance, and the car was always serviced at the VW dealership. If it needed any kind of repair, then that's exactly what it got.

Akinari · 11-02-2015, 12:01 AM

Out of curiosity, would the general consensus be that the VR6 or 1.8T be the better buy as far as MKIV GTIs go, less in terms of performance, more in terms of reliability and cost of maintenance, etc.

Lomac · 11-02-2015, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akinari

Out of curiosity, would the general consensus be that the VR6 or 1.8T be the better buy as far as MKIV GTIs go, less in terms of performance, more in terms of reliability and cost of maintenance, etc.

TDI.

But seriously.

As for VR6 or 1.8t, they're both pretty reliable, but the VR6 would probably be the better choice. I love the 1.8t, but their turbo's have a habit of popping more often than you'd like. The diverter valves also like to die on a regular basis. The 6 is also a timing chain, whereas the turbo is a belt (as far as I can remember... though since I've been up for 26 hours, I might be recalling wrong).

Traum · 11-02-2015, 10:01 AM

Yup, 1.8T has a timing belt. And the mechanics generally recommend you to replace the water pump while you're doing the timing belt job as well.

Come to think of it, when I still had my 1.8T, I seem to remember Blitzkerg mentioning that some sort of secondary / accessory air pump on the MkIV cars have a tendency to fail as well, and replacing them is another $1k+ job. But again, it has been a solid 7 or 8 years since I sold the car, so my memory is a little hazy on that one.

blackGS? · 11-02-2015, 10:10 AM

Was there an oil sludging issue on the these 1.8t's?
I remember a friend of mine having one that he meticulously maintained but still sludged up.
RSX-S gets my vote.
It would be cheaper to maintain... Plus I-VTAK. I'm a Honda fan boy

TjAlmeida · 11-02-2015, 10:24 AM

Skip the bs and get a tdi. I picked mine up a month ago, and if I were to do all my car buying again.. I would have started with a tdi. 140hp and 240tq after tuning. I have an 05 so mine is a pumpe duse engine, so no injection pump. Personally I'm not 100% on the advantage or disadvantage of not having an injection pump, but coming from my Cummins where injection pumps were not cheap.. I'm liking the direct feed to the injectors.

Similar price to a vr6 I think, probably 3x the fuel mileage, and pretty quick once tuned. Also for easy to moderate wrenching it's all like Lego.

Edit: but if still between a vr6 and rsx, I would go rsx. Unless a real hatchback is more useful to you.

Traum · 11-02-2015, 10:27 AM

No oil sludging issues with mine over ~130k km and 9 years of use. However, one common problem is people not remembering that this is a turbo car with a very small (K03) turbo. To not cook your turbo, you need to remember that in the final few km's worth of driving before you shut the engine off, you are supposed to take it easy with the driving, and make sure the turbo has enough time to cool off. (I am not a fan of turbo timers.)

fishCak3s · 11-02-2015, 10:35 AM

I had a 1.8t before, I think all the points have been touched by everyone. Water pump/timing belt, turbo, my electronics worked fine, and I did my coil packs recall. My secondary air pump failed before as well even though it doesn't affect my drivability.

Fun to drive but if you are trying do minimal work on it probably stick with the VR6 or the RSX-S

killerz124 · 11-02-2015, 11:09 AM

I would totally love an RSX-Type S but I can't find any in my budget that I like. I've found a 1.8t GTI that seems pretty good (the guy changed the water pump, timing belt, clutch, brakes, rotors and said he bought coilpacks over the weekend to install them). If I were able to find a RSX-type S that would beat the deal I'm getting with this person (hope he doesn't screw me over and sell me a car with problems) I would gladly give it consideration and bias because I already have a GTI and I really like RSXs.

I've found a VR6 but not much has been changed yet, although it is still pretty low in kms, but it still seems like a better deal to go with the 1.8t because it has all that work done on it already (plus it looks nicer too).

The market just really sucks right now haha

NNT · 11-02-2015, 11:54 AM

Bought a new GTi 1.8T back in 2000 and sold it last year. pretty reliable in the 14 years and 160,000KM of ownership. only warranty claim was the windows regulator that broke within the first 6 months. Major repair that I can remember was the water pump (leaks coolant) engine gasket (leaks oil) and timing belt replaced all at once when the car was around 9/10 years old. Alternator toasted around 10/11 years or so. and for some reason this car love to eat batteries , think it was on its 4th or 5th battery when i sold it. few things coming up that it probably need to take care soon if i not sold the car like control arm bushing, clutch starts giving up which is the main reason I sold it.

Also few other things failed but I never gonna get it fixed includes one heated seat not heating up, one heated mirror not heating up. rear defogger not working.
Overall not too bad. but like other 10 years old vehicle. you probably need to spend a few dollar to make it roadworthy

Zedbra · 11-02-2015, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjAlmeida

Skip the bs and get a tdi. I picked mine up a month ago, and if I were to do all my car buying again.. I would have started with a tdi. 140hp and 240tq after tuning. I have an 05 so mine is a pumpe duse engine, so no injection pump. Personally I'm not 100% on the advantage or disadvantage of not having an injection pump, but coming from my Cummins where injection pumps were not cheap.. I'm liking the direct feed to the injectors.

Similar price to a vr6 I think, probably 3x the fuel mileage, and pretty quick once tuned. Also for easy to moderate wrenching it's all like Lego.

Edit: but if still between a vr6 and rsx, I would go rsx. Unless a real hatchback is more useful to you.

Through that injection pump out the window!

I have an 05 PD and with a turbo and tune came in at 157hp and 267 tq, it is a lot of fun in Vancouver traffic. 330,000km and still pulling hard. Gives me 42mpg no matter how much coal I roll

killerz124 · 11-02-2015, 08:44 PM

Well it looks like the guy was just trying to scam us the entire time.

When he presented us the paper copy of his "purchase" of a clutch, timing belt and water pump it was all written on a piece of paper in pen that an elementary school child could replicated. There was no specifications on the purchase it was simply labeled:

Clutch 300
Timing Belt 250
Water pump 350

And a little signature at the bottom for authenticity. I was reluctant at first but I brushed it off. I decided later that night to ask him for a picture of the receipt so I could verify it with the auto shop he took it to and he replies that he's slightly offended for not believing him. He goes on to say that "I promise you that I did it, you just have to take my word for it." And to top it all off he says "sometimes you just have to trust people, we're not all bad."

Riiiiiight, he didn't want to leave his car at my mechanic overnight and he's asking me to buy his car without verification. The world is filled with scumbags.

Looks like I'm back on the hunt for another GTI/RSX type S

Edit: Here's the craiglist ad http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/cto/5241755061.html

TjAlmeida · 11-02-2015, 10:40 PM

What's your budget. My friend I think is about to start posting his vr6 for sale.

Akinari · 11-02-2015, 10:54 PM

I couldn't help but notice that prices for MK5 GTI/GLI have also come down a lot, particularly the GLI Jettas. Are these as reliable/bulletproof as the MK4 and everything before it, or did the MK5 start becoming too German for its own good

Manthro · 11-02-2015, 11:06 PM

Damn.. By that Ad it looked like he took extremely good care of his ride too. Brings a tear to my eye.. I owned a 2007 GTI that I bought from a Chrysler dealership in Richmond for $12600... 4 Years ago! it had 127000km on it. They didn't know what they had. Fully loaded... After my trade in, I spent under 10k.

4 years later, I got T-boned by a Mazda 3 that ran a red. Car got written off, and I got nearly 14k for the value from ICBC, so free car basically... Still, I planned on driving that thing til even my paranoid maintenance habits wouldn't keep it on the road.

I found a 2007 (Gen1) Mazdaspeed 3 for a great price, looked like it had never been driven, previous two owners were car guys that loved to drive but didn't beat the piss out of it.

There's a few in good shape in the area, consider looking into one. they are in your price range, and fun as hell to drive.

Traum · 11-02-2015, 11:32 PM

The MkV cars are generally noticeably more reliable than the MkIV cars. Particularly worthy of note is that they (the MkV cars) are the first generation of Golf to receive an IRS. Personally, I also find their chassis to be noticeably (or maybe even significantly?) more rigid than the MkIV cars, and they feel much more bank vault-like.

IMO, the EA113 engine is both a high point and a weak point of the car. The engine itself is phenomenal and significantly better in nearly every performance aspect compared to the old 1.8T, including reliability. On the other hand, these engines are known to burn oil. As they get old (100k km+), burning less than 500mL per 1000 km is considered to be very low oil consumption. The crazy ones can burn well over 1.5L per 1000km. Regular oil level checks and top ups is a must.

For what it is worth, it is still belt-driven, so it'll need timing belt replacements on a regular schedule.

Brakes on the MkV cars is a major weak point. IMO, the OEM brakes are barely adequate for street use. If you intend to do any performance driving, significant brake upgrades is a must.

This is the first gen when the DSG becomes available. It is a fantastic tranny, but you want to make sure the prev owner has taken good care of the transmission and did all the required DSG services on time. Otherwise, you're gonna be stuck with a nice, big fat repair bill. The DSG also kind of limits the number of power mods you want to apply to the car, since they tend to not handle major stage 2 - 3 type power upgrades all that well. That said, I had a friend who regularly autox-ed his nicely modded DSG MkV GTI for a good while, and I believe he was pushing close to 300 lb-ft of torque. The tranny was still in one piece when he sold the car.

From working on both the MkIV and MkV cars, I am absolutely convinced that German engineers are either idiots, or sadistic pricks that intentionally design the car to be a royal PITA to service. Case in point -- it took me well over 2 hrs one time change 2 frickin' light bulbs for the rear brake (one side only). I think the same job on my pos Civic literally just meant opening up the trunk, reach in and pull the damn bulb out, replace it, and stuff in back in -- all done in <2 min.

At the end of the day, it is still a VW, and it is still a German car. The engine is still bulletproof, and the same stuff around the engine will still break -- but at least they will do so less frequently than the MkIV cars did. You are still going to want to look after the car with the level of service and maintenance that a German vehicle requires.

mickz · 11-03-2015, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akinari

I couldn't help but notice that prices for MK5 GTI/GLI have also come down a lot, particularly the GLI Jettas. Are these as reliable/bulletproof as the MK4 and everything before it, or did the MK5 start becoming too German for its own good

Worst issue I had with my MKV Jetta was the alarm and having to deal with Cowell VW about it. It kept going off while parked. Cowell kept it for a week to switch out the alarm and wanted me to pay for my own rental car because they were out of service loaners. I told them to fuck off.

No mechanical issues with the 2.5L engine but changing the oil filter cartridges were annoying af.

DC5-S · 11-03-2015, 03:37 AM

I got my type-s from a hastings dealership back in jan 07' and I've had it since, got it with 29k on it. Now it's got 176k on it and I haven't once had to once take it to a mechanic, nor have I needed to replace the clutch yet. The car is decently quick with mods, I have had it for a longgg time now. Been wanting to replace it but can't justify spending money on something that will depreciate. Anyways, I'm sure you can snag one for 4-5k