Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[Badhobz]

such bullshit!!! fuck you yota!

https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...31-toyota.html

Kinda like this.. why would you put in a CFRP hatch into a prius!? who gives a shit. You then build 50-60% of the LC500 out of CFRP, making it the stiffest Toyota ever made (more than the LFA) and yet the bitch still weighs 4300lbs?!!??!

https://newsroom.lexus.eu/from-lfa-s...ic-brilliance/



Also takes absolutely nothing to write these things off due to all this CFRP. Look at how minor this accident is
https://en.autoconsultant.com.ua/aut...paay5sa111386/

[AstulzerRZD]

Prius liftgate not light even with CFRP.
You want Toyota to gate a powered steel trunk behind an XLE premium trim??

LC I’m surprised not more of the body is CFRP.
It’s so low volume that the manufacturing side setup costs for extrusion & stamping has got to be insane.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Stellantis will be fine if they cut off their shitty euro brands like Alfa, Maserati and the French.

I wished Stellantis would cut off their Euro brands. It feels like a bastard child in their portfolio.

Re: Crown - So which platform is the 2026 North American Crown on (not the Crown Signia) ?

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Prius liftgate not light even with CFRP.
You want Toyota to gate a powered steel trunk behind an XLE premium trim??

LC I’m surprised not more of the body is CFRP.
It’s so low volume that the manufacturing side setup costs for extrusion & stamping has got to be insane.

ive read somewhere that they've either lost money, or are barely breaking even on every single LC sold. I mean in total volumes, they've moved only like ~25,000 cars in total since 2018.

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/lexus/lc

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Re: Crown - So which platform is the 2026 North American Crown on (not the Crown Signia) ?

i think all north american crowns are on the TNGA-K platform. basically the ES / Avalon platform.

[noclue]

Random musing

I've been driving an EV for quite a while now and I'm a full EV convert (for daily driving):
Under $100K = Tesla Model Y unless you need a 3-row full size then KIA/Hyundai EV9/Ioniq9
Over $100K = BMW iX

I was just thinking about when gas was $1.91 a few days ago the last time I bought gas and how gas prices are irrelevant to me now. Also we enjoy cheap electricity rates in BC.

No oil changes, spark plugs, coolant flush to care about and the battery is covered for 8 years under warranty. So convenient to start the AC from the phone and phone as a key.

I dont believe in PHEV, due to the complexity of both systems and the maintenance of a gas engine.

I'm not lost in the EV koolaid though, Road trips and sports cars should still be gas engines.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I wished Stellantis would cut off their Euro brands. It feels like a bastard child in their portfolio.

Re: Crown - So which platform is the 2026 North American Crown on (not the Crown Signia) ?

North American crown is on TGNA-K: the Camry platform.

Fiat was pretty good at respecting the North Americans and letting them lead in their strength. the PSA guys from France are terrible.

We know one thing for sure: BAP (Brampton) is fucked and probably going to close.
Really sad though - they used to make hella units of Charger/300/Challenger.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by noclue

Random musing

I've been driving an EV for quite a while now and I'm a full EV convert (for daily driving):
Under $100K = Tesla Model Y unless you need a 3-row full size then KIA/Hyundai EV9/Ioniq9
Over $100K = BMW iX

I was just thinking about when gas was $1.91 a few days ago the last time I bought gas and how gas prices are irrelevant to me now. Also we enjoy cheap electricity rates in BC.

No oil changes, spark plugs, coolant flush to care about and the battery is covered for 8 years under warranty. So convenient to start the AC from the phone and phone as a key.

I dont believe in PHEV, due to the complexity of both systems and the maintenance of a gas engine.

I'm not lost in the EV koolaid though, Road trips and sports cars should still be gas engines.

Ford Lightning leasing under $900/mo taxes in is insane.
It qualifies for the MHEV EV rebate too.

Transit EV sucks on paper but it saves $3k in brake changes per 40k km.
This is because the gas 250/350 require dropping the rear axle to replace pads/rotors.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

ive read somewhere that they've either lost money, or are barely breaking even on every single LC sold. I mean in total volumes, they've moved only like ~25,000 cars in total since 2018.

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/lexus/lc


i think all north american crowns are on the TNGA-K platform. basically the ES / Avalon platform.

They probably lose money.

The i3 had many more units and the CFRP body was still cheaper because it avoided tooling costs for making a metal body.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Only if you come to the meet.

Re: Crown - Badhobz said it best and genuinely a nice Toyota product. The fit, finish, and materials are impressive given its class and category (waiting for AstulzerRZD to shit on this.) It is meant to be a nice cruiser. Not a sports car. not a Dodge Challenger. Not an Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio. Not a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. My wife and I both really enjoyed the test drive of the Limited trim. We were really looking forward to testing out the Platinum trim because it has a slightly different motor and a real 6-speed transmission, not a CVT the Limited has.

The Park button - I find the park button very annoying but it's just how modern cars are these days and we'll just have to get used to it. For a Toyota product, it punches above its weight against Lexus. I know people on this forum like to shit on Toyota, but we have to be realistic about our expectations.

Excuse me, what are you trying to say there, bud?

[noclue]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Ford Lightning leasing under $900/mo taxes in is insane.
It qualifies for the MHEV EV rebate too.

Transit EV sucks on paper but it saves $3k in brake changes per 40k km.
This is because the gas 250/350 require dropping the rear axle to replace pads/rotors.

Totally forgot how EV's are changing the last-mile/local delivery or trades business. I havent seen the economics of those GM brightstar EV vans but the reduced downtime in maintenance and fuel costs is probably material. Those sprinter diesels are a giant POS and the Grumman UPS vans clatter and belch diesel with no AC.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Excuse me, what are you trying to say there, bud?

Bro called himself vanilla in 1000 different ways

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by noclue

Totally forgot how EV's are changing the last-mile/local delivery or trades business. I havent seen the economics of those GM brightstar EV vans but the reduced downtime in maintenance and fuel costs is probably material. Those sprinter diesels are a giant POS and the Grumman UPS vans clatter and belch diesel with no AC.

Yes! They are free trucks to expand business because 5.0 gas bill and Lightning lease is the exact same cost... except the Lightning lets us write off more.

5.0s are touching 200k km - every seal is leaking and power steering likes to go out. We only keep them around for the 8 ft bed.

[mikemhg]

The turning radius of this Crown is awful by the way.

Side streets in Phoenix are wide as fuck and I even pulled somewhat onto the curb when attempting to do a U-turn on a side street, this damn boat didn't even come close to making the full turn around, had to 3-point with as RZD said, with this shitty reverse shifting functionality.

Glad I'm done with this car as of this evening

[JDMDreams]

^^ how's the back seat compared to 300c don't forget to test that

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Only if you come to the meet.

Re: Crown - Badhobz said it best and genuinely a nice Toyota product. The fit, finish, and materials are impressive given its class and category (waiting for AstulzerRZD to shit on this.) It is meant to be a nice cruiser. Not a sports car. not a Dodge Challenger. Not an Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio. Not a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. My wife and I both really enjoyed the test drive of the Limited trim. We were really looking forward to testing out the Platinum trim because it has a slightly different motor and a real 6-speed transmission, not a CVT the Limited has.

You can shove your opinion up the dukes!

My only counter is...
1) Crown pricing is within 2k of Lexus ES.

2) the Dodge products are just as good at comfort/cruise:
- Comfort: Charger and 300 seats benchmarked Lexus LS430
- Materials: No stitched door panel, quilted seats, metal center console on Crown. Crown has some gloss black plastic.
- Competence If your road is twisty, the MB based chassis/control weights easier to drive
- Noise: Cabin noise similar - 67 vs 69 db highway cruising.
- Sound: Crown JBL can't touch the Alpine system.
- "Tech": The driver assists are terrrible but the touch screen has been super fast since 2015... while Toyota had their bullshit resistive touch screens and moues controller.

Most people get the rental spec V6 Charger that's still competent, but with shit plastics.
This is what it should look like:

[JDMDreams]

^^^ but my credit score isn't 300, what will ppl think if you say you drive a dodge

[mikemhg]

I will say though, the Crown has minimal piano plastic, which is nice.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^^ but my credit score isn't 300, what will ppl think if you say you drive a dodge

Your social credit and credit scores will both tank if you come within 2 feet of a Dodge Charger.
If it gets stolen like every other V8 Chrysler, your scores become negative!

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^ how's the back seat compared to 300c don't forget to test that

We're too old for that debauchery nowadays.

Besides, I don't think I want my bare ass touching the backseat of this rental, I might end up coming home with more than just a sunburn.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

My only counter is...
1) Crown pricing is within 2k of Lexus ES.

Yes. I agree with this. Even when the Avalon was available, it was only thousands away from a base model ES. This is where the pricing strategy makes it a weird value proposition for prospective buyers.

Speaking of the ES, we also test drove an ES at Badhobz's favourite Lexus dealer and needless to say, the ES just wasn't as nice as the Crown. Sure, you can say they are built in the same factory or whatever, but there were nuances that stood out to you when you compare the two, back to back.

Re: Dodge - I've mentioned this before but my wife and I both really enjoyed our Dodge Challenger rental in LA. I don't remember which spec it came in but it was a really nice highway cruiser but it doesn't do well as a sports car. The interior was acceptable and still had it's domestic look and feel, but in no way is it anywhere as bad as they used to be.

Would I own one? No. Lease? Maybe. But I'm more partial to ownership as I tend to keep my cars longer and don't switch cars very often.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Speaking of the ES, we also test drove an ES at Badhobz's favourite Lexus dealer and needless to say, the ES just wasn't as nice as the Crown. Sure, you can say they are built in the same factory or whatever, but there were nuances that stood out to you when you compare the two, back to back.

Re: Dodge - I've mentioned this before but my wife and I both really enjoyed our Dodge Challenger rental in LA. I don't remember which spec it came in but it was a really nice highway cruiser but it doesn't do well as a sports car. The interior was acceptable and still had it's domestic look and feel, but in no way is it anywhere as bad as they used to be.

Elaborate on the Crown vs ES? Seems like you've really noticed some details here.

& yeah Challenger is really a W211 E55/63 with better tech/trans but way shittier interior. They're not a sports car but put up ok performance numbers if you get the wide body - everything else is undersprung/tired/braked.

Reliability wise they're Dodge's best product.
20 years of the same engine, 10 year old radio, and 15 year old transmission from ZF.
The real ownership problem is they get stolen in under a minute.

[noclue]

Bro no asian is going to buy a stellantis vehicle, I enjoy sampling them at hertz/enterprise (new wagoneer is very nice)

[AstulzerRZD]

Bro it’s different in the states: Cali itself sells more cars than Canada
I might know a thing or two about buying patterns from my time in product planning at Nissan Canada.

Grand Cherokee sells to everyone from Puerto Rico dreamers to 500k TC tech exec
Challenger sells to everyone from FOB girls to Vietnam war army vets

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Elaborate on the Crown vs ES? Seems like you've really noticed some details here.

My experience and observations are probably two years old now, so it's likely not relevant anymore. But when we test drove the 2023 Crown and the ES250h (hybrid) the dashboard on the Crown was much more thoughtful and streamlined as opposed to the ES250h at the time.

The dashboard on the ES had wider gaps and holes, leaving for dust to collect, and the overall fit and finish, and materials, stitching, and feel of materials were observably nicer on the Crown. The seats in the ES (at the time) felt dated and just "okay." They are not the same, but the ride quality on the Crown was way smoother than that of the ES. It handles bumps more nicely and was responsive to weight transfer when entering corners. The car didn't feel like it was going to float, unless you drove like a maniac. Crown felt like it was just waltzing through the corners. The Crown's interior was larger too, with lots of room up front and in the rear. We often get out-of-town guests visiting, so we want to be able to drive them around and take them to the usual tourist traps like Niagara Falls etc. The ES was a close second in terms of rear passenger space, but it wasn't anything to write home about. Perhaps a Camry would be of better value.

Could it be that the ES has since changed? Maybe. I don't personally know because I don't follow Lexus that closely and the ES is not a vehicle that's on our radar. Badhobz suggested I try the ES350 for a comparison and to help guide our decision, but the dealership only had the ES250h, and I'm glad it happened this way so we could compare two hybrids back to back. I wished I had paid more close attention to the ES because it was something for us to consider as a daily driver, but the Crown did it for us. My preferences are still for an ICE engine, and I know, the benefits of hybrid have been beaten to death here, but it's not the north star to influence our next vehicle purchase.

Re: Dodge being stolen. It's a serious problem here in Toronto, next to the Lexus RX cars being stolen non-stop. Insurance premiums are insane for these cars and people have resorted to wild ideas to prevent theft. It's not a way I want to live and the consequences, both emotional and financial, are not worth it. I really liked the Challenger, but it doesn't meet the requirements of our use case and long-term ownership goals.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Bro it’s different in the states: Cali itself sells more cars than Canada
I might know a thing or two about buying patterns from my time in product planning at Nissan Canada.

Grand Cherokee sells to everyone from Puerto Rico dreamers to 500k TC tech exec
Challenger sells to everyone from FOB girls to Vietnam war army vets

I think noclue's resposne was more generic to Canada. The US is a very different market, especially California.