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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 12-22-2015, 12:08 PM   #1
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ICBC possible fraud issue

So a couple weeks back my girlfriend was driving straight down a narrow street, and a car that was parked on the roadside turned out onto her car without shoulder checking. We filed ICBC, she got a witness, and thought everything is going to be fine.

Now ICBC is tell us that the other driver was backing into a spot and that she hit HIM. Her witness also stopped cooperating as well apparently after having a conversation with the other driver.

I checked with the body shop and they said the damage is consistent with a car pulling out of a spot and clipping her car, not the other way around.

Now, the witness that was on our side has completely recanted and turned the story around, to match the driver that hit her.

What do we do now?
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Old 12-22-2015, 12:52 PM   #2
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Offer more money to the witness than the other guy did? Other than that your kinda in a tough spot here. Should have recorded any conversations after the accident.

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Old 12-22-2015, 01:08 PM   #3
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Ask the body shop person to be an expert witness.

If witness account doesn't match the proof, I think ICBC will be forced to investigate further. You might want to get a lawyer for this.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:47 PM   #4
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That's what I'm thinking too. However, a lawyer has already told me that if we go that route, this may be dragged out with bad results as in his experience, ICBC usually just sticks with their decision and will try to uphold it.

And this is 3 days before our new dash cam arrived too =(

The body shop manager already agreed to be our expert witness. He said according to the damage incurred and way it was done, that there was no possible way that it could've been done if she hit HIM while he was backing into a parking stall.

this is supremely frustrating.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:00 PM   #5
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and to add: I want to tell ICBC "Why would we provide info on a witness that's AGAINST us?"

we were the first to report it, and provide witness details. It was reported within the hour whereas the other individual waited until the ICBC called him.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:04 PM   #6
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unbelievable how many fuckers there are out there... I wish I had some great advice for you, but I really don't.. This kinda shit is a huge pain in the ass
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:43 PM   #7
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Your repair guy is correct....the damage on the cars will show which was going forward and which was going backards. In your story you both were, in theirs he was backing and you were going forward. The scratches and the direction the steel was deformed by the crash will show the truth. I would get your body guy to give you a statement and take LOTS of DETAILED pictures before the damage is repaired....also see if you can get pictures of the other car. If you believe fraud is being committed, report it to the Police with all the details you haver. Get this info to ICBC when they interview you. Their adjusters should have taken notes & pictures of the other guy's car and those should suppport your position. Good luck.
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:07 PM   #8
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I was under the impression that neither of the parties should be speaking with the witness as this constitutes tampering. This is why when looking for a witness, you should just ask if they saw what happened and their contact information.

Just some after thought, you might want to invest or get the GF to invest in a dashcam. Even a cheap one now a days are pretty good since you just need to capture what happened.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:27 PM   #9
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If the witness already gave both statements to ICBC, on record, that pretty much negates his/her usefulness to EITHER party. That leaves the bodyshop manager as the only reliable testimony, I should think.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:22 PM   #10
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if the guy was backing into a spot doesn't that mean he was changing the direction of traffic and it would be his fault? I was backing into my driveway once and a guy drove right into me and I would of been deemed 100% at fault if he would of reported it.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:07 AM   #11
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This could probably apply...
Caution in backing vehicle
193 The driver of a vehicle must not cause the vehicle to move backwards into an intersection or over a crosswalk, and must not in any event or at any place cause a vehicle to move backwards unless the movement can be made in safety.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:34 AM   #12
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Your repair guy is correct....the damage on the cars will show which was going forward and which was going backards. In your story you both were, in theirs he was backing and you were going forward. The scratches and the direction the steel was deformed by the crash will show the truth. I would get your body guy to give you a statement and take LOTS of DETAILED pictures before the damage is repaired....also see if you can get pictures of the other car. If you believe fraud is being committed, report it to the Police with all the details you haver. Get this info to ICBC when they interview you. Their adjusters should have taken notes & pictures of the other guy's car and those should suppport your position. Good luck.
We did buy a dash cam. It just hasn't arrived yet at the time of the accident =(


My gf talked to the witness first to get information. According to her, he told her straight up that "oh it was that Benz's fault 100%. he came out without shoulder checking". So given the situation, and what the witness told us,

We got the car fixed already. Didn't think much of it.

The surprise came AFTER. When ICBC called us yesterday and said our witness said it was 100% OUR fault. That the other guy was parallel parking and we hit HIM. So whatever our witness told us has completely been omitted from ICBC.

That and my gf also told me that at the time of the incident, after she got the witness's info, the other driver approached him and started badgering and pleading with him. She didn't do anything about it because...well...she can't stop a guy from talking to another, can she?

So the body shop has pics. We only have pics of the original damage, and how the car was positioned on the street when it came out to his her as well as the damage.

I don't know what happened with the other car at this time.

All I know is that the adjuster is now trying to write this off as our fault. It's not official yet but judging by her line of questioning (the car is insured under my name, and is MY car, but gf was driving at the time. The adjuster is threatening to go after my gf now for improper use of the vehicle), she wants this swept under the carpet ASAP. I checked with the bodyshop and ZERO inspectors have come from ICBC to inspect or take pictures since he requested them to over a week ago.

Zulu:
If I believe fraud is being committed, and report to RCMP, how should I do it? Just call the non-emergency line? Go into the detachment myself? What kind of documents, proof would I need? At this point i don't have a lot to go on.

Last edited by BallPeenHammer2; 12-23-2015 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallPeenHammer2 View Post
We did buy a dash cam. It just hasn't arrived yet at the time of the accident =(


My gf talked to the witness first to get information. According to her, he told her straight up that "oh it was that Benz's fault 100%. he came out without shoulder checking". So given the situation, and what the witness told us,

We got the car fixed already. Didn't think much of it.

The surprise came AFTER. When ICBC called us yesterday and said our witness said it was 100% OUR fault. That the other guy was parallel parking and we hit HIM. So whatever our witness told us has completely been omitted from ICBC.

That and my gf also told me that at the time of the incident, after she got the witness's info, the other driver approached him and started badgering and pleading with him. She didn't do anything about it because...well...she can't stop a guy from talking to another, can she?

So the body shop has pics. We only have pics of the original damage, and how the car was positioned on the street when it came out to his her as well as the damage.

I don't know what happened with the other car at this time.

All I know is that the adjuster is now trying to write this off as our fault. It's not official yet but judging by her line of questioning (the car is insured under my name, and is MY car, but gf was driving at the time. The adjuster is threatening to go after my gf now for improper use of the vehicle), she wants this swept under the carpet ASAP. I checked with the bodyshop and ZERO inspectors have come from ICBC to inspect or take pictures since he requested them to over a week ago.

Zulu:
If I believe fraud is being committed, and report to RCMP, how should I do it? Just call the non-emergency line? Go into the detachment myself? What kind of documents, proof would I need? At this point i don't have a lot to go on.
hold on, so you did not get a written statement from the witness? Just simply his word.. and when it came time to give a written statement, he went with the other guy?
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:07 PM   #14
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hold on, so you did not get a written statement from the witness? Just simply his word.. and when it came time to give a written statement, he went with the other guy?
That is correct. At the time of the accident, my gf simply exchanged information with the witness and then left. She had no resources to write down a statement at the time. The witness was the one who offered to provide his account of what happened and mentioned to her that she was in the right.

And when ICBC called the witness to ask what transpired, his story went the other direction. Said that my gf ran into the other fellow.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BallPeenHammer2 View Post
We did buy a dash cam. It just hasn't arrived yet at the time of the accident =(


My gf talked to the witness first to get information. According to her, he told her straight up that "oh it was that Benz's fault 100%. he came out without shoulder checking". So given the situation, and what the witness told us,

We got the car fixed already. Didn't think much of it.

The surprise came AFTER. When ICBC called us yesterday and said our witness said it was 100% OUR fault. That the other guy was parallel parking and we hit HIM. So whatever our witness told us has completely been omitted from ICBC.

That and my gf also told me that at the time of the incident, after she got the witness's info, the other driver approached him and started badgering and pleading with him. She didn't do anything about it because...well...she can't stop a guy from talking to another, can she?

So the body shop has pics. We only have pics of the original damage, and how the car was positioned on the street when it came out to his her as well as the damage.

I don't know what happened with the other car at this time.

All I know is that the adjuster is now trying to write this off as our fault. It's not official yet but judging by her line of questioning (the car is insured under my name, and is MY car, but gf was driving at the time. The adjuster is threatening to go after my gf now for improper use of the vehicle), she wants this swept under the carpet ASAP. I checked with the bodyshop and ZERO inspectors have come from ICBC to inspect or take pictures since he requested them to over a week ago.

Zulu:
If I believe fraud is being committed, and report to RCMP, how should I do it? Just call the non-emergency line? Go into the detachment myself? What kind of documents, proof would I need? At this point i don't have a lot to go on.

Don't understand why ICBC want to penalize you for your girlfriend driving, unless you are named as the owner but she actually does the majority of driving? The principle operator must be named on the policy. In my household my wife and I are both on all vehicle registrations with the principle operator being named. She on her car, me on my car and motorcycle.

If your car is drivable, why not take it to an ICBC claim centre yourself? Why not visit one and ask them when the car will be examined by them?

Call the RCMP non-emergency line and ask to speak to someone in the Traffic Unit. They have collision investigation experience. They'll tell you what to bring to them to open a file.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:41 AM   #16
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Don't understand why ICBC want to penalize you for your girlfriend driving, unless you are named as the owner but she actually does the majority of driving? The principle operator must be named on the policy. In my household my wife and I are both on all vehicle registrations with the principle operator being named. She on her car, me on my car and motorcycle.

If your car is drivable, why not take it to an ICBC claim centre yourself? Why not visit one and ask them when the car will be examined by them?

Call the RCMP non-emergency line and ask to speak to someone in the Traffic Unit. They have collision investigation experience. They'll tell you what to bring to them to open a file.
My name AND my gf's name is registered on the policy but I am the principle operator as I drive the car more. So I am not sure why the adjuster is all uptight about it =(

To be honest, we didn't expect this to happen, so we called ICBC, and they said to just take it to a trusted body shop to repair. So we did =(
Lesson Learned.

Thank you. That helps.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:59 PM   #17
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Sounds like the witness' account corroborates with the other driver's version of events. I would look for a better understanding by asking for how they assessed the responsibility/fault and ask for a copy of the witness' statement.
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallPeenHammer2 View Post
My name AND my gf's name is registered on the policy but I am the principle operator as I drive the car more. So I am not sure why the adjuster is all uptight about it =(

To be honest, we didn't expect this to happen, so we called ICBC, and they said to just take it to a trusted body shop to repair. So we did =(
Lesson Learned.

Thank you. That helps.

NOT saying that it is your case...but a lot of drivers hide the real identity of the main driver and that may be why ICBC is questioning the P.O.?? ICBC WILL DO AN INVESTIGATION TO SEE IF DAD REALLY is THE MAIN DRIVER, NOT HIS SON WITH ALL THE TICKETS WHO JUST HAPPENED TO BE DRIVING AT CRASH TIME...if uyou know what I mean

If you're not going to loose the 40% discount, maybe just cut your losses and run....or continue talking to the Police???

Either way, best of luck...
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:34 PM   #19
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NOT saying that it is your case...but a lot of drivers hide the real identity of the main driver and that may be why ICBC is questioning the P.O.?? ICBC WILL DO AN INVESTIGATION TO SEE IF DAD REALLY is THE MAIN DRIVER, NOT HIS SON WITH ALL THE TICKETS WHO JUST HAPPENED TO BE DRIVING AT CRASH TIME...if uyou know what I mean

If you're not going to loose the 40% discount, maybe just cut your losses and run....or continue talking to the Police???

Either way, best of luck...

LOL I get it. I do. This isn't one of those "my car is my name but my g/f drives it 80% of the time" kinda thing. I use it more than she does, hands down. Her name's also on my other car as well.

She simply just drives less than I do.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:36 AM   #20
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So car's been fixed but body shop told me ICBC still has not talked to them about assessing damage and responsibilities. The Adjuster has not returned our calls either.

=(
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:36 PM   #21
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sooooo....ICBC just called and said it's ruled in our favor.

Apparently what he did was in violation of a regulation in the MVA.

I guess BS'ing's still got its limits and can't hold up against the law.

Close thread please =)
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Old 12-30-2015, 05:05 PM   #22
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I can't believe that YOU actually said that!!!!! Congratulations.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:19 AM   #23
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whaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Not like my name's Sebbery......*mumble mumble*
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:54 AM   #24
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Happy 2016!!
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:39 AM   #25
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It all doesn't matter now but I think next time you can try and utilize the video recording function and record the witness giving their statement on the spot. Friend had his vehicle hit in a parking lot once and recorded the other driver admitting on camera it was their fault and it worked out pretty good needless to say.
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