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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 01-11-2016, 11:40 AM   #26
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Cash is a token promising value but doesn't have any of its own.
yeah that's why it's called Fiat Currency.

Kevin O'Leary and other super rich people keep their asset as gold.

Because cash in the end, is a piece of paper with number printed on and could go down in value significantly for whatever reason. Had happen before and will happen again.

But gold on the other hand, had the solid value for thousands of years.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:43 AM   #27
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The only problem with a cashless society is when the network goes down and it does go down. After a major earthquake people without cash are going to be screwed.
That depends.

Your debit/credit cards can be reproduced as long as you have an ID or some sort.

But if you have physical cash, when earthquake/tsunami/hurricane come, if you lose your wallet or whatever, so be it.

The network might go down in BC, but they might have backup data somewhere else.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:04 PM   #28
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That depends.

Your debit/credit cards can be reproduced as long as you have an ID or some sort.

But if you have physical cash, when earthquake/tsunami/hurricane come, if you lose your wallet or whatever, so be it.

The network might go down in BC, but they might have backup data somewhere else.
Earthquake happens internet goes down. Go to your local store to buy something you better have cash because your debit card will not work.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:11 PM   #29
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yeah that's why it's called Fiat Currency.

Kevin O'Leary and other super rich people keep their asset as gold.
Just to not confuse people that cash equals fiat currency, cash used to be gold-backed in Canada until 1931 and was not a fiat currency at that point. It was backed by actual gold in banks and was redeemable for gold.

It became a fiat currency when the gold standard was dropped because now cash is literally backed by nothing but a government promise that it is, in fact, legal tender.

Fiat currency is like living in Monopoly land and being given Monopoly money. If you want to play the Game of Life, better hope someone over there wants to play Monopoly. If no one wants to play Monopoly anymore, you're screwed.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:20 PM   #30
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No cash? How do you pay for illegal product and service? How will homeless survive without being able to beg for charge? How do you stuff bills into stripper thongs. How will cocaine be snorted in nightclubs? Where do you stick pictures of dead president national symbols so every single person in the country can have access too?

Tax evasion aside, forcing small business to not take cash and only take electronic money where every transaction comes with a service charge is going to kill many business before it even takes off.

I see coins going away in the not very far future. Cash money probabaly not n
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:54 PM   #31
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No cash? How will anyone ever be able to make it rain without paper?
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:28 PM   #32
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I don't know if you guys are serious or not, but in summary, seems like many people are against the idea of cashless society mainly because you can no longer commit tax evasion, dealing drugs, etc.

Producing cash isn't cheap.
Here's an example from the states, it costs 1.7 cents to produce a penny and 8 cents to produce a nickel.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...make-a-nickel/

Looks like physical cash is down to 1% in the states.
Governments Have Begun Moving to Ban Physical Cash - Gains Pains & Capital
"Put another way, actual physical money or cash (as in bills or coins you can hold in your hand) comprises less than 1% of the “money” in the financial system."

Also I can't find a source right at this moment, but in the states, even at 1% physical cash, it's costing tax payers approx $670 a year just to keep the cash floating around in the society. I bet the number is higher in Canada since it's at 4%.

For that kind of price, I would rather suck up the mild inconvenience and use credit, debit, cheque, wire transfer, paypal, etc.
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:35 PM   #33
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^^ won't work. Tell that to all the shops that accepts cash only and homes and cars being bought with cash only. If it is done without cash a lot of foreign investors would not invest here. Look at all the commericals space, housing, local business being bought. Is their way to evade tax. If there is a trail for the gov to follow they will be ding for tax and mostly money laundering. So in truth the gov will never allow this even they know lot's of foreign investors are most likely money laundering here.
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:52 PM   #34
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Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:06 PM   #35
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Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.
Im sorry but Im sick of people bragging about their credit card points and benefits that's because 90% of credit card holders carry their balance over and over and over. The interest you pay negates all the benefits.

It's been be proven you spend less with cash because you're less likely to spend physical currency. With a CC you lose track of your spending and get carried away swiping everywhere with imaginary money.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:55 PM   #36
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^^ won't work. Tell that to all the shops that accepts cash only and homes and cars being bought with cash only. If it is done without cash a lot of foreign investors would not invest here. Look at all the commericals space, housing, local business being bought. Is their way to evade tax. If there is a trail for the gov to follow they will be ding for tax and mostly money laundering. So in truth the gov will never allow this even they know lot's of foreign investors are most likely money laundering here.
That's a huge contradictions right there. CRA/IRS are reportedly very tough on tax evaders. Especially oversea investors and all that. It is well known fact that HSBC and KPMG are always battling against CRA/IRS because of their tax issues and helping out clients' tax evasions to the tax havens.

Allowing tax evasion isn't going to help honest investors and entrepreneurs.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:56 PM   #37
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I'm sorry, but I have shit loads of points and I have never, ever carried my balance over. I guess I'm reaping the benefits caused by the actions of people you describe. So thank-you, Joe Public.

Also, I doubt any frugal asian would allow that to happen......... carry balance over and pay hight CC interest rates.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:58 PM   #38
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^^ or with cash you actually have to physically get up, go to the store, line up and pay vs with CC you can just go online and buy what you feel like.
It might not be related but I feel a lot of debt ppl carry these days on their CC have to do what the ease of online shopping. Is like Ludepower said when you use a CC is very different than cash and online shopping take this farther by making it so you only need to enter your CC info once.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:39 PM   #39
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:02 AM   #40
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Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.
You realize that using your credit card incurs a cost to the retailer right? And in the end they pass that cost on to you. Especially to small business that pay credit card companies per transaction. That's why so many Chinese-run business are "Cash Only" - partially because they want to hide income from the CRA, but also to save on the transaction costs.

In Australia some businesses such as hotels have 2 prices - one lower for debit/cash, one higher for credit. It was annoying as fuck, but then I realized in North America they just bury the fee and pass it on to all customers regardless.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:13 AM   #41
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Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.
Those points are not free. Credit and debit card companies charge stores a percentage or a flat fee. Stores just pass that on to the customer. Canadian tire gives you Canadian tire money for paying in cash and cost only excepts debit and MasterCard no Visa.

Only way a 100% cashless society can work is if bank fee's are regulated. I still remember when some banks would only give customers a certain number free debit transactions a month before they started charging a fee.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:24 AM   #42
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I can't remember the last time I used cash. I use a card for every thing. In fact you can now do Apple pay and pay for things using your phone. My phone case has a spot for cards on the back of it and I keep my cards there. I don't even have to carry a wallet anymore. I just wave my phone over the tap console and boom it's paid for. In time money will be able to exchange hands from phone to phone like any normal transaction. I've also done email transactions rather than use cash. For me I am virtually completely electronic with money. I'm curious when a global standard of currency will take place. I know how difficult that is as there are different markets and values based on economy but I can't wait until they are called Credits.

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Old 01-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #43
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^^ what if your phone broke or server got hacked? Or better yet someone stole your phone? I see ppl using those cell phone case with Credit card holders in them and I just roll my eyes. Is like if someone take your phone and ran or you lost your phone. There goes your credit card and all your ID. You can't even call anyone coz or get a taxi.

I guess I am just traditional. I still have a wallet and put cell phone and wallet is different pockets. In case one gets stolen I am still have the other.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:47 AM   #44
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I only have my phone to worry about. Wallets can be dropped, lost but if I'm without my phone for more than a few seconds I know it. Odds of my phone being stolen or lost is far less than a wallet. You can't live in fear. People can steal your CC info right out of your pocket with RFID scanners. If it's gonna happen it's gonna happen. Hell I want to even take the whole process one step further and get an RFID implant in my hand. That way I can just wave my hand over a tap machine and pay for stuff.
As it stands now most people have no idea whats happening when I wave my phone over the console and it pays. It's quite amusing and I can only imagine what people would think if I just waved my hand over the console and it paid lol

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Old 01-12-2016, 12:19 PM   #45
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Im sorry but Im sick of people bragging about their credit card points and benefits that's because 90% of credit card holders carry their balance over and over and over. The interest you pay negates all the benefits.

It's been be proven you spend less with cash because you're less likely to spend physical currency. With a CC you lose track of your spending and get carried away swiping everywhere with imaginary money.
Carrying a balance is for dumb people. I've had a credit card for nearly 15 years now. Not once in that 15 years have I paid any interest. I pay my bill in full every single time. Don't spend money you don't have. Interest is a full controllable cost in that you don't have to pay it if you pay your bill on time.

Whenever I do anything with money, I want as few people to make as little money off me as possible while keeping as much of it as possible for myself and getting as much as I can for a dollar.

Money is money. I don't need psychological tricks to keep my spending under control. That's also for dumb people. It's just math. This is why dumb people are usually poor.

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You realize that using your credit card incurs a cost to the retailer right? And in the end they pass that cost on to you. Especially to small business that pay credit card companies per transaction. That's why so many Chinese-run business are "Cash Only" - partially because they want to hide income from the CRA, but also to save on the transaction costs.

In Australia some businesses such as hotels have 2 prices - one lower for debit/cash, one higher for credit. It was annoying as fuck, but then I realized in North America they just bury the fee and pass it on to all customers regardless.
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Those points are not free. Credit and debit card companies charge stores a percentage or a flat fee. Stores just pass that on to the customer. Canadian tire gives you Canadian tire money for paying in cash and cost only excepts debit and MasterCard no Visa.

Only way a 100% cashless society can work is if bank fee's are regulated. I still remember when some banks would only give customers a certain number free debit transactions a month before they started charging a fee.
Yes, but here there aren't two prices and that fee is buried in the cost regardless of whether I use a credit card or not. Even if you pay cash, that fee is in the price. If the fee is 3%, someone paying cash is 3% in the hole but for someone like me that pays with a 1.5-2% cash back card, you're getting much of that fee back.

When you think about it, it's really the people paying cash that are paying for my points. They pay the same price I do but I get more.

Plus all the other benefits. I get discounts on flights, AMEX lets me use their airport lounges, etc.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:40 PM   #46
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I don't know if you guys are serious or not, but in summary, seems like many people are against the idea of cashless society mainly because you can no longer commit tax evasion, dealing drugs, etc.

Producing cash isn't cheap.
Here's an example from the states, it costs 1.7 cents to produce a penny and 8 cents to produce a nickel.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...make-a-nickel/

Looks like physical cash is down to 1% in the states.
Governments Have Begun Moving to Ban Physical Cash - Gains Pains & Capital
"Put another way, actual physical money or cash (as in bills or coins you can hold in your hand) comprises less than 1% of the “money” in the financial system."

Also I can't find a source right at this moment, but in the states, even at 1% physical cash, it's costing tax payers approx $670 a year just to keep the cash floating around in the society. I bet the number is higher in Canada since it's at 4%.

For that kind of price, I would rather suck up the mild inconvenience and use credit, debit, cheque, wire transfer, paypal, etc.
that is not true at all. there are tons of ways to not use cash and still engage in tax evasion or drug dealing.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:03 PM   #47
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^^ what if your phone broke or server got hacked? Or better yet someone stole your phone? I see ppl using those cell phone case with Credit card holders in them and I just roll my eyes. Is like if someone take your phone and ran or you lost your phone. There goes your credit card and all your ID. You can't even call anyone coz or get a taxi.

I guess I am just traditional. I still have a wallet and put cell phone and wallet is different pockets. In case one gets stolen I am still have the other.
What if a plane crashed into your house? What if your phone battery explodes? What if...what if...what if...

Preparing for every contingency is just...you are so worried about the things that could happen to you rather than enjoying anything that does.

Oh hey if you drop your phone or your credit cards, you can do a remote shutdown of your phone or cancel your credit cards. Lose cash and...oh.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:22 PM   #48
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Carrying a balance is for dumb people. I've had a credit card for nearly 15 years now. Not once in that 15 years have I paid any interest. I pay my bill in full every single time. Don't spend money you don't have. Interest is a full controllable cost in that you don't have to pay it if you pay your bill on time.

Whenever I do anything with money, I want as few people to make as little money off me as possible while keeping as much of it as possible for myself and getting as much as I can for a dollar.

Money is money. I don't need psychological tricks to keep my spending under control. That's also for dumb people. It's just math. This is why dumb people are usually poor.





Yes, but here there aren't two prices and that fee is buried in the cost regardless of whether I use a credit card or not. Even if you pay cash, that fee is in the price. If the fee is 3%, someone paying cash is 3% in the hole but for someone like me that pays with a 1.5-2% cash back card, you're getting much of that fee back.

When you think about it, it's really the people paying cash that are paying for my points. They pay the same price I do but I get more.

Plus all the other benefits. I get discounts on flights, AMEX lets me use their airport lounges, etc.
Tragedy of the Commons, self interest results in us the greater good being screwed. Don't believe for a second any of the credit card companies are doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They make a killing off of small businesses.

I'm sure you know this but a lot of Chinese places have a no-tax or one-tax price for you when you pay cash
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:36 PM   #49
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Hey, it's not my fault that other people don't use their credit cards too. Yes, it's self-interest but it's not like my strategy prevents others from doing the same. It's just that you have tons of people out there that are financially illiterate, thinking that for some reason spending cash means you probably spend less than when you have credit cards.

I see it less of a tragedy of commons and more of...I don't want to be like those people. You can see it everywhere...heck, all over RS...that some people take pride in being dumb. In keeping it real...real poor. There's no fighting the stupid. I see it as just letting stupid people be stupid and benefitting off their stupidity.

And yes, I live in Richmond. C'mon. Any way I can maximize my dollar is fine by me.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:37 PM   #50
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