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Old 04-20-2016, 01:33 PM   #26
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Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:58 PM   #27
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Just grandfather what they have and implement a lower wage for those that they hire with it taking around 5 years to reach the max which would be set at a lower rate than what it currently is.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:02 PM   #28
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:06 PM   #29
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Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.
Tell that to anyone though, even a guy making 5 million a year would most likely scoff at the idea of losing 10% of his wages. When you are accustomed to a wage, pay your bills/mortgage around that wage, and suddenly they want to take 10% away that isn't peanuts.

Sure grandfather those wages, then good luck ever seeing a raise ever again till you retire.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:06 PM   #30
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Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.
everyone I know in seattle drives a car and has nothing nice to say about public transit.....

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Old 04-20-2016, 04:13 PM   #31
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Man if they get wage increase, you can be sure Translink will ask for more money from tax payers... in the end, tax payers suffer....
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:24 PM   #32
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This is not about how much the drivers make. To be honest, we are not even asking for more money. 1% increase is comical and no point even arguing about .

The issue is , on the back end that passengers and the public don't know about. Its issues that will directly affect the drivers working conditions.

Everyone always says we get paid etc too much. But, if you think we get paid too much you are more then welcome to apply! WE ARE HIRING!

You have to remember, we have taken concessions for the last 10 years! In a effort to help the company make ends meet. We even extended our contract by a year , because we didn't want to have bargaining during the plebiscite and during the new CEO etc.

Eventually, you have to ask yourself as a working individual when do we stop taking concessions? Enough is enough.

Just wanted to also point out, that we Also agreed to let them cut down over 250,000 hours! over the last 3 years. Again this was to help the company make budget quotas. Then I see news , of CEOS making Bonus's
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:11 PM   #33
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I think there's a lot of stress factors for driving a bus that people don't consider.

Some days i don't even like driving my mid-sized car through Vancouver by myself. Think about driving a huge metal tube where jay-walkers, cyclists, inattentive drivers, etc. zip around you, don't yield to you, etc.

Think about the clientele that you have to deal with. You get verbally abused, physically assaulted, etc. There are a lot of angry people in this world who will take their anger out on you because you're...there. Drunk people, etc. If somebody's standing at a bus stop, you have to take them.

I worked for a year with parolees (violent offenders, sex offenders, etc.) and generally felt safe all but a couple of times. But i don't think I could deal with the people that bus drivers deal with.

I don't know WHAT the going pay should be for them. But I wouldn't call the job easy and I wouldn't be quick to dismiss how hard bus drivers work.

The problem with Translink seems to be that it's very top heavy. A lot of executives, etc. make the lions share. Shouldn't frontline staff be paid well? They're the ones actually operating the machines that get people to and from work/home, etc.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:27 PM   #34
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Lots of people drive downtown in large vehicles and you don't have to pay them that much. In my previous job you could get someone as low as 16-18/hour starting wage to drive a 5 ton as well as do physically demanding work. I do agree that working with the public can be difficult but the same could be said for a mcdonalds employee and I've yet to see them at $30/hour in vancouver.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:48 PM   #35
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Lol..id argue most construction jobs are far tougher for less pay and less benefits, less job security, etc

Laborer and as far as 3rd/4th year trades people in Alberta now are making about the same, 30/h etc. pulling cable and shit for 10 hours a day for 14 days straight seems a little harder..again, with little or shitty benefits.

I find it funny how it's always these Union types who are always the ones bitching about how hard or how people don't understand what their job entails. For the most part they are always far easier and far cushier than their private sector counter-parts
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:15 PM   #36
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theres a lot of worse jobs that pay less out there. but i dont think $30 is unreasonable at all for the work they do. id say its in line with other union driving jobs. they also have to deal with shit hours and split shifts, not to mention some of the people who take the bus.
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:53 PM   #37
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Oh no doubt, obviously dealing with the people is the biggest downside to the job
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:25 PM   #38
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Oh no doubt, obviously dealing with the people is the biggest downside to the job
I'd agree, but your waitress or bartender also deals with people all night long, drunk ones, obnoxious ones, and she has to put up with it because she only gets paid minimum wage and relies on the tips those drunk people leave for her.

As for people saying bus driving is hazardous with regards to the people you have to deal with, the truth is it simply isn't. At least by my definition of the word hazardous it isn't. In 2014 173 construction workers we're killed while at work. Exactly 0 bus drivers were killed.

Sure you might get a cup of water thrown at you, or some bum might annoy you, but at least your not gonna fall to your death.

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"Drivers deserve fair wages and working conditions — so to demand bus drivers take concessions when they have some of the toughest jobs around is simply insulting," said Unifor Local 111 president Nathan Woods.
But I guess we should take The bus driver unions presidents word for it that they have "the toughest jobs around", I mean after all he isn't paid by those people to literally say exactly that.

As for the issue at hand, from the last contract that was signed wage increases we're set at 3.8% a year. Nothing has been released as of yet by either side, but the bus driver unions keeps using the word "Concessions", I can only imagine that the government is probably trying to reel back that 3.8% to something more reasonable such as 1.5 or 2%. After all inflation is supposed to only be 2% and rarely do we even see that. I highly doubt the government is actually giving bus drivers a pay cut. They are just giving them less of a raise every year.


Further to all of the above, I think performance should also be looked at, and Unifor 111's performance has actually been quite poor over the last little bit.

I remember a document being ousted awhile back about how they had really high turnover, and absenteeism. I could only find this news article though:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/10/15...nces-skyrocket

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During the worst months, the numbers meant one-in-10 employees were away from work — everyday.
That's APPALLING. What's even worse is the unions response:

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“If we notice an employee has a high sort of spike in absenteeism, we’ll have a chat with them and make sure it’s something we can assist.”
Something we can assist? Huh?

Does anyone know how this conversation would go in the private sector?

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Old 04-20-2016, 10:39 PM   #39
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ok wage cut would suck regardless of occupation.

but 250k hours cut over 3 years for 4700 workers ...seriously that's like only losing 2 days of work in a year if I understood correctly...if you think that's bad just wait until you get replaced by robots/Google

try private sector for a little while...you'll likely run back to your crown-backed position.
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:03 AM   #40
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. You shouldn't need a degree to put a roof over your head.
i agree

i deserve property ownership by right of birth
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:18 AM   #41
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:09 AM   #42
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I am all for higher wages for everyone to keep up with the ever rising living costs in Vancouver. But Translink needs to stop these bullshit cost cuts.

I remember doing a research for econ class a few years back ubc to see whether the then proposed fare increase was reasonable and justified. I found out translink was actually operating at a pretty low efficiency, and fare evasion was a common problem. Don't remember the exact numbers, but they were losing 3~6 million every year due to evasions. How they managed to implement the gates so late is beyond me, and how the gate costs 200 million dollars has me jackie-chan meme.

What translink needs to do is to stop subsiding the bike lanes and other non-public transportation shit and use that money to do whatever they wanted to do instead of enforcing these BS cost cuts. If bikers want bike lanes, then they should partially pay for it. I don't see how fully subsided bike lanes paid by public transportation users and car drivers are justified. Plus, operating costs should be much lower than the last few years, if they didn't make wage cut then, why start now. The ones should be taking a wage cut are the executives. If they are managing a business that is seeing deficits constantly, and want to start making cost reduction policies on its workers then maybe start with execs first. It may not be much. but at least they would be setting a good example.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:23 AM   #43
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There's a bus driver I know through a friend and whenever general chit chat is brought up about how peoples days were he's constantly bragging about how easy and cushy his job is when people ask him how his day was. He says he just drives from point A to point B and repeat. He talks about driving downtown and how he deals with drunk/bums/anyone who he thinks will/could start an altercation. If they pay, they pay, if they don't, who cares. He'll just let anyone on to make his job easier as its not worth the hassle to bug the person about paying to get and possibly start shit.

I may have an damn good union myself, but I work 10x harder than any bus driver and deal with more pissed off annoyed people who bitch about my wage - the entire city.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:38 AM   #44
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i agree

i deserve property ownership by right of birth
Anyone who does a job for 40+ hours a week should be able to provide basic needs to live in my opinion, regardless of education. If the jobs important enough that it needs you full time, then you should be able to afford rent. That's more of a minimum wage issue than this thread though.

No one said anything about owning property.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:53 AM   #45
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There's a bus driver I know through a friend and whenever general chit chat is brought up about how peoples days were he's constantly bragging about how easy and cushy his job is when people ask him how his day was. He says he just drives from point A to point B and repeat. He talks about driving downtown and how he deals with drunk/bums/anyone who he thinks will/could start an altercation. If they pay, they pay, if they don't, who cares. He'll just let anyone on to make his job easier as its not worth the hassle to bug the person about paying to get and possibly start shit.

I may have an damn good union myself, but I work 10x harder than any bus driver and deal with more pissed off annoyed people who bitch about my wage - the entire city.
Like any job, give someone an inch and they take a mile. I work in a union myself, and I see these types of people a lot. Definitely there are those who wouldn't have a job if they weren't in a union. At the end of the day though, these fuck ups make me look like a model employee.

Being in a union there are things I like and dislike. But when it comes down to it, without the union my wage would be most likely half of what it is now. So I'm overpaid then? If the company can afford to pay the wages they are paying us now, and still make money, how do you determine that someone is overpaid or not? If someone is willing to do it for 15 an hour then that should be the wage?

People seem to think if you're not breaking your back then you're not worth the money.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:56 AM   #46
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How about you jackasses figure out how to charge per stop on the skytrains and make zones work again?
That way not only could you generate enough income to sustain your wage heck you may even give yourself a raise!
I dont know of anywhere else in the world where you can travel such a great distance (richmond to surrey) for that little money.
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This is not about how much the drivers make. To be honest, we are not even asking for more money. 1% increase is comical and no point even arguing about .

The issue is , on the back end that passengers and the public don't know about. Its issues that will directly affect the drivers working conditions.

Everyone always says we get paid etc too much. But, if you think we get paid too much you are more then welcome to apply! WE ARE HIRING!

You have to remember, we have taken concessions for the last 10 years! In a effort to help the company make ends meet. We even extended our contract by a year , because we didn't want to have bargaining during the plebiscite and during the new CEO etc.

Eventually, you have to ask yourself as a working individual when do we stop taking concessions? Enough is enough.

Just wanted to also point out, that we Also agreed to let them cut down over 250,000 hours! over the last 3 years. Again this was to help the company make budget quotas. Then I see news , of CEOS making Bonus's
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:58 AM   #47
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http://www.metrovancouver.org/servic...de_2012-15.pdf

Page 52 and beyond provides wage schedules, seems to me they are compensated comparably with other city positions such as;

2015 Wages:
Asphalt Raker (LOL) - $27.99
Truck Driver (Most) - $29.16
Equipment Operator Class V (Highest Paid Operator, not sure what they actually operate) - $32.35

Ultimately it's not the 30$/hr, they also get pension, benefits, and vacation that eclipses much of the private sector - Refer to Section 8 of the collective agreement, if you work in the private sector (Anything other than corporate) I suspect your list of benefits is much shorter.

Such is the way with public employees.

If you want a giggle check out the collective agreement for Longshoremen ILWU 500, page 89 for 2016 rates.
http://ilwu500.org/wp-content/upload...-2010-2018.pdf
Highlights:
Regular Time - $40.56/hr
Holiday Pay - $81.12/hr

Pretty good pay for a union supporting a non-ticketed trade.

Makes you wonder why anyone doesn't go union lol.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:00 AM   #48
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Anyone who does a job for 40+ hours a week should be able to provide basic needs to live in my opinion, regardless of education. If the jobs important enough that it needs you full time, then you should be able to afford rent. That's more of a minimum wage issue than this thread though.

No one said anything about owning property.
Minimum wage is for children, it's not a living wage. If you don't make enough to live/rent in Vancouver you have to move east, period. Working 40 hours a week at X job doesn't entitle you to live in Van.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:02 AM   #49
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On a separate rant, I don't really believe the wages are low so much as the taxes and cost of living is too high. The fact that real estate (also known as "peoples homes") has been pumped up by the government for a decade plus, essentially encouraging people to speculate on RE has really hurt everyone financially, at the end of the day the banks win that one, the next generation gets completely fucked.

These are essential positions, it's not really fair to have someone service an immediate area with an essential position and then not pay them enough to live there.. next thing you know were Saudi Arabia enslaving Indian expats in our two tier society.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:22 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo View Post
http://www.metrovancouver.org/servic...de_2012-15.pdf

Page 52 and beyond provides wage schedules, seems to me they are compensated comparably with other city positions such as;

2015 Wages:
Asphalt Raker (LOL) - $27.99
Truck Driver (Most) - $29.16
Equipment Operator Class V (Highest Paid Operator, not sure what they actually operate) - $32.35

Ultimately it's not the 30$/hr, they also get pension, benefits, and vacation that eclipses much of the private sector - Refer to Section 8 of the collective agreement, if you work in the private sector (Anything other than corporate) I suspect your list of benefits is much shorter.

Such is the way with public employees.

If you want a giggle check out the collective agreement for Longshoremen ILWU 500, page 89 for 2016 rates.
http://ilwu500.org/wp-content/upload...-2010-2018.pdf
Highlights:
Regular Time - $40.56/hr
Holiday Pay - $81.12/hr

Pretty good pay for a union supporting a non-ticketed trade.

Makes you wonder why anyone doesn't go union lol.
My best buddy is a member at Delta Port and the stuff he tells me is beyond ridiculous. Working graveyard for like $65 an hour with an hour of mandatory OT for nothing. Half the time he shows up at 1am and leaves after clocking in being paid for the whole shift. The amount of money the docks make must be insane to afford that.

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Minimum wage is for children, it's not a living wage. If you don't make enough to live/rent in Vancouver you have to move east, period. Working 40 hours a week at X job doesn't entitle you to live in Van.
Last time a went to McDonalds I saw more people in their 50s than teenagers. No one has to live in Vancouver but if you can't even afford rent in Maple Ridge there's a problem
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