Ottawa to pay $10.5M to Omar Khadr, government source says

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

even if he did throw the grenade, it's war, they're not allowed to fight back?

It's a little more complicated than simply participating in a war. A Canadian citizen took up arms against our closest ally in war Canada was also involved in. Under other circumstances, it could have been Canadian troops he was accused of killing.

[Shorn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

And Shorn digging up some ducking article from the star trying to lay out the "facts" yea..ok..

Not sure why you put facts in quotations. But if you want a source other than The Star (too liberal for you or something?), here's another: https://web.archive.org/web/20141224...7-157a87a73618

I don't even understand why you guys are so confrontational.

All I'm doing is actual research before having an opinion, which is what everyone should do. From the beginning when I heard this story I didn't have a predisposition towards which side was right. I went out and looked for facts on what happened and made my own opinion.

Since when is backing up your opinion with facts a bad thing? Maybe you guys should try it once in a while, might open up your views.

[Hondaracer]

I appreciate the effort, however in this case the "facts" are pretty diluted. I spent a good chunk of time reading up on what happened to Omar prior to the capture and there are so many different accounts and opinions it's hard to take the info with anything but a grain of salt.

Virtually all the accounts are from the US side and some are from people who were directly involved, some are not. So I find it hard to call opinion peices and perspectives on the events actual facts. Even the actual scenario and setting are called into question in many cases.

One thing you can virtually know with certainty however is Omar was there, he was with a group who returned fire on allied forces, and was captured during the fight in question.

However you want to frame it, the world would have seen a net gain had he died in the fight.

[Shorn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I appreciate the effort, however in this case the "facts" are pretty diluted. I spent a good chunk of time reading up on what happened to Omar prior to the capture and there are so many different accounts and opinions it's hard to take the info with anything but a grain of salt.

Virtually all the accounts are from the US side and some are from people who were directly involved, some are not. So I find it hard to call opinion peices and perspectives on the events actual facts. Even the actual scenario and setting are called into question in many cases.

One thing you can virtually know with certainty however is Omar was there, he was with a group who returned fire on allied forces, and was captured during the fight in question.

However you want to frame it, the world would have seen a net gain had he died in the fight.

Right, so I agree with you for the most part. Where our opinion differs is the fact that I actually believe in innocence until proven guilty. No matter what, because that's the basis of our justice system and one of the most fundamental right we have.

Without it, millions of people would be wrongly imprisoned and I am also of the opinion that it's better to let 10 guilty people walk free because of insufficient evidence than 1 innocent person going to prison because of a miscarriage of justice.

I don't doubt that Omar was up to no good in Afghanistan. I don't doubt that they were teaching him to make bombs and brainwash him with jihadist ideals. I also don't doubt that he had much choice in the matter, being 15 years old, so I can't really blame him for it either.

However the thing I do know is that we cannot prove that he threw the grenade (and the US sure tried), and I completely agree with the Supreme Court's decision that we failed this young man.

To each their own

[Mr.Money]

kinda fucked up if you met charles manson as a 15 year old and said he brain washed you into sticking a knife or pulling a trigger on somebody than get paid 10 million dollars for it cause you were interrogated and waterboarded....lack of sleep beat to crap.

[Hondaracer]

[Infiniti]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opi...service=mobile

[underscore]

I'm still confused as to why people keep mentioning Trudeau in all this, when it was the Supreme Courts decision. You are familiar with the Supreme Court right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Canada

Originally Posted by mikemhg

My main thought is why isn't the US paying this sum? They're the one's who imprisoned the guy, and didn't follow proper diligence to send this Canadian citizen back to Canada for proper trial.

The US cost us double this actually, as based on the brilliant "intel" the Americans got from torturing Khadr they captures and tortured an innocent man who was also given $10.5M I believe.

[inv4zn]

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

[vitaminG]

The supreme Court found his rights were breached but did not order any payout or apology. Trudeau chose to settle out of court and issue an apology rather than fight a civil suit which would have been forthcoming. Also interesting to note that the soldiers widow was in the process of trying to block any payout when this conveniently occurred.

The people who really should be apologizing are his family who sent him to fucking Afghanistan to fight for al Qaeda, the family which he is apparently still close with. If it was up to me his mother should have been locked up for allowing him to be put on such danger.

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

what evidence do they have that he actually killed speer aside from his confession extracted via torture?

[6o4__boi]

Trudeau is nowhere near perfect but the decision to settle and offer an apology in light of the supreme court ruling is the smartest decision.

Smart doesn't have to look good. Is it morally right? Absolutely not. But it was the best decision available, visuals be damned.

I don't understand how people can't grasp this simple concept. I'm willing to shit on Trudeau's mistakes and misgivings as much as the next guy but this isn't one of them. If you ask me, it'd be nice if we could take the idiot child and lash him Saudi style but this isn't how civilization works.

I can pretty much guarantee the same people who complain that Trudeau settled and paid a terrorist will be the same ones who'll complain if Trudeau chose to fight a civil suit and piss away money in litigation.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

If that is how you feel, why bother taking part in the discussion?

This is a very unique case, as I, and others have pointed out. This isn't cut and dry wrongdoing towards an innocent man like Maher Arar, who was paid out millions by our government to which I support.

Khadir, a Canadian citizen, essentially took up arms against his own country (as part of a US led coalition). But should he be considered a child soldier and absolved of any wrongdoing? There are cases of teens as young as him being tried and convicted as an adult in murder cases. The US definitions of Gitmo detainees and what rights they had or didn't have, what torture was acceptable and what wasn't, who was involved, etc changed with different presidents in office while he was in there. The way his confession was acquired suggests coercion and torture. The whole thing was a cock up from the start and I have opposed his detention at Gitmo and our government's obstruction to see him removed. He could be innocent, or he could be like OJ Simpson - someone we all know is guilty in the eyes of the public, but got off on a technicality. There are just so many layers to this story, so many nuances, that I can't help but question it from beginning to end. Handing him millions of dollars of tax payer money, before anyone had any idea, before the wife of the dead US soldier could have her case heard, just sounds like more of the same underhanded ideological bullshit we saw from the Cons. The SCC found he was wronged by our government, and I can live with that decision. It did not make any recommendations as to compensation. I can understand why so many people are upset. Does this make me like a simpleton Trump supporter? Or a racist or anything else you wish to imply of those who don't agree 100%?

[inv4zn]

^What are you on about.

My point was directed at the simpletons picking keywords out of what is, as you've said, an incredibly complex issue with lots of contentious points in human rights, law, government and politics, and twisting it to think whatever they want to believe. The meme posted up there just solidifies my point.

I agree with your large paragraph and will only address the last question, which I assume is hypothetical.

The SCC ruled in his favour, opening the government up for a lawsuit. And if that drags on, because it's an international issue and a very complex one, the financial repercussions would have likely exceeded his current payout. There is also the issue of how this sets precedence. I personally would much rather have a government (regardless of political party) that sets a precedence it is accountable for its wrong-doings, than one that is going to openly break human rights laws.

Again to re-iterate my first point, I'm calling the idiots on FB that post shit like "TRUDEAU IS PAYING TERRORISTS WTFFF"; which in my mind, is not any different than simpletons who post shit like "OBAMA RUINED THE USA WTFFF"

[Infiniti]

Judge rejects request to freeze Omar Khadr's assets - World - CBC News

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

before the wife of the dead US soldier could have her case heard

I'm sorry but what case does the wife of a soldier allegedly killed by Khadr have in the Supreme Court of Canada?

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by underscore

I'm sorry but what case does the wife of a soldier allegedly killed by Khadr have in the Supreme Court of Canada?

Ontario Superior Court*

Now since it was such minor and rather common mistake to mix up Provincial and Federal Supreme Courts, which I'm sure most could have figured out, pointed out, or asked for clarification, I have to wonder if there was more to your question?

[Hondaracer]

Harper reaches out to alleged victims of Omar Khadr: report - NEWS 1130

The former prime minister of our country feels the decision was the wrong one, but hey you guys read a few left wing articles on bleeding heart opinions and are obviously more well informed than he is.

[Manic!]

Federal government reaches settlement with 3 Canadian men tortured in Syria and Egypt - Canada - CBC News