Ernst & Young report suggests ICBC insurance rate hike of 30 percent over 2 years.

[Dharminder]

insurance should be a competitive market and should be made private give people the freedom of were they want to spend their money.

[Dragon-88]

Here I am paying $600/yr to insure my Grom when people in the US pay $35/year.

[twitchyzero]

i thought internal estimates were at up to 42% because of the costly fixes to repair high-end sports cars?

next year they'll hit us with 20% and say hey, could've been way worse...you're getting the fairer end of the deal

[G0rilla]

Is the no coverage for cars over $150k cars in effect yet?

[teggy604]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i thought internal estimates were at up to 42% because of the costly fixes to repair high-end sports cars?

next year they'll hit us with 20% and say hey, could've been way worse...you're getting the fairer end of the deal

Its guarantee they will. The more we feed the dragon the hungrier it becomes. I'd say we put it on a super lean diet or kill it.

[smoothie.]

I wonder how much ICBC would have to raise % before those that always argue for ICBC on revscene will turn?

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by murd0c

I've always wondered if they have ever done a study on how many foreign/non-Canadian residents have caused/been in accidents. If it's a larger % compared to Canadian residents I personally think there should but an extra tax for that exact reason.

lol doing research on race and driving is a good way to ruin your own career, and probably get tons of death threats.

We live a society where any studies and researches that could implicate certain race is better or worse is pretty much forbidden. (regardless if the research is true or done in good faith)

[Mancini]

For perspective:
-I bought a new car in 1995. Msrp $18,000. Insurance was $1,500.
-I ran this through an inflation calculator and the current equivalent would be $2,230 in today's dollar.
-I now have a $28,000 car and my rate is $1,730 for similar coverage.
-In both examples I had the maximum discount.

[CCA-Dave]

I love when revscene complains about ICBC. I moved from Ontario, where there is "competitive" insurance and I cannot begin to tell you how much better it is here for people who like modified cars.

If you drive a NEW, base-model stock vehicle that is exactly like it was when it left the factory floor...and you're over the age of 45 (or female) you might save some money over ICBC's rates. But the moment you put wheels on it, or suspension, or any other modification...good luck.

MOST modified vehicles in Ontario are done without the insurance company knowing, and it becomes an issue when they find out (via a claim or otherwise). Got wheels on your ride, and contact State Farm to ensure they're insured? Policy dropped. Modified your car for track days, rally or other? Good luck getting insurance. My Rally prepped Audi (fully caged) was going to be $6800/yr when I left Ontario, with the ONE company that would take it on. ICBC? Oh, that's just like any other audi of that era, $1200/yr.

There are downsides, for example I live alone and pay full rate on the four cars I insure. In Ontario I'd have a multi-vehicle discount, since I obviously can't be driving four cars at once. The rates are high, especially for Gov't insurance. But the problem here is that BC uses ICBC like a cash-cow, and our NDP gov't isn't going to help that at all.

The benefits of ICBC for modified car owners FAR outweighs the negatives, and I can say that from experience.

[underscore]

^ Don't forget about the guy in Oregon that did a RallyCross event (basically AutoX on dirt). His insurance company found out and cancelled the policies on the car he used for the event, his other car, his wifes car, and their house.

[Jmac]

Not that every election promise comes true, but the NDP did say they'd reverse the law that the Liberals changed in 2010 that allowed crown corporations to be used as cash cows.

Of course, thanks to said law, our rates are quickly becoming fucked. Thanks Christy

[Gerbs]

I heard the competitive insurance in Toronto charges a way higher premium than what ICBC would charge if you've been in a accident or have speeding tickets. On the outwards of like $5k+ a year for like $30k car.

[UFO]

Well on the flipside, if the Libs weren't using revenue generating crown corps to help balance the books, the resulting bill comes back to us anyways in increased taxes.

Money isn't magically appearing out of thin air, at the end of the day it comes out of the same pockets -- yours and mine. I'm very curious to see what the NDP's solution to this is, while at the same time fixing all of the middle class' cost of living issues

[Traum]

When my SO and I started living together, we loosely agreed on a budget for housing, one for food, one for (joint) entertainment, one for my cars, etc. If we happen to spend less for joint entertainment one month, it doesn't mean I can freely divert those funds into my automotive budget. Conversely, if I didn't go to too many events, my car playing money doesn't automatically get transferred to the retirement savings account. Most important of all, if I overspend my car playing budget, I don't go raiding on our food and housing budget to payoff that nice shiny set of wheels and tires. And I most definitely DO NOT just casually mention to my SO that I was a little short this month, so I had used a little of our food money on the cars.

At the end of the day, I still make the same amount of money every month. But I don't pretend our food budget is healthy when I have been constantly raiding it to buy new cars parts.

It's exactly the same story with ICBC. If the provincial government needs more money, they shouldn't be raiding it from ICBC's revenues. They should get it through the proper means and inform the public that they are doing so.

[UFO]

I get where you're coming from, and your example is tidy. But keep in mind it vastly oversimplifies how a government budget works, and there is no 1 way that a budget must be executed. Case in point if we run into a stretch where our food budget goes above what we expect, we do trim from our entertainment and house upkeep/upgrade funds. And likewise, we have some big house repairs coming up, we're going to adjust our going out habits both before and after the expense to even things up. That doesn't sound reasonable? We have some left over money after all is said and done, why NOT transfer it into the retirement account?

Like I mentioned I get where you're coming from, I believe in disclosure too. But at the end of the day the Libs are, just like the NDP will be, trying to stay in power so they will paint whatever picture they need to make this happen. But also understand the general public is not well educated enough to read through the nuances and details. They'll just be drawn to free and shiny things, like FREE Port Mann bridge crossings for all! (fine print we'll get the costs back some other way but you won't know it)

[vantrip]

As mentioned by someone in a different thread ICBC was profitable until private insurance companies were allowed to sell collision and comprehensive coverages.

Now with more people opting for extra coverages with private insurances means ICBC has less revenues. Also ICBC pays out the the first (200k) in damages whenever someone has a accident since basic 3rd party liabiltiy is mandatory thru ICBC which meaning they now have more expenses.

Only logical step is make basic insurance full-competitive so that private insurance companies take on more risk/pay out more.

[tonyzoomzoom]

ICBC is screwed as long as they are mandated to be the insurance company of last resort. Other "competitors" will continue to cherry pick all the good drivers.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by vantrip

As mentioned by someone in a different thread ICBC was profitable until private insurance companies were allowed to sell collision and comprehensive coverages.

Now with more people opting for extra coverages with private insurances means ICBC has less revenues. Also ICBC pays out the the first (200k) in damages whenever someone has a accident since basic 3rd party liabiltiy is mandatory thru ICBC which meaning they now have more expenses.

Only logical step is make basic insurance full-competitive so that private insurance companies take on more risk/pay out more.

from an article last November: Besides sending millions to Victoria, ICBC has used $1.4 billion in profits from its optional insurance business in recent years to keep its basic auto insurance rates from jumping. It cost $472 million in money earned off optional insurance this year to drive a projected basic rate hike of 15 per cent down to 4.9 per cent.

So ICBC's optional insurance is still profitable, but the claims being made on the basic rates are way higher than sustainable. Take a look at the cars on our roads today, vs the cars on our roads 10 years ago; we see significantly more high end/luxury cars. Even basic cars these days have tons of safety features like multiple airbags that are costly to replace after an accident. Cars today cost a lot more to fix than they used to 10 years ago. However the cost of insurance hasn't reflected that to the same degree -- we've had it pretty good for a pretty long time IMO. 10 years ago I paid around 1500/yr for my Yaris with full 43% discount. Now I pay 1900/yr for a much nicer car with more coverage and the same discount level. If your car cost significantly more to buy and repair, you should be paying significantly more for insurance IMO.

And then we have to account for the rising cost of bodily injuries, legal settlements, fraudulent claims, etc etc.

[Traum]

Undoubtedly, there is a lot more technology involved in today's vehicles, and fixing things that have been broken is going to cost money. However, bear in mind that the costs of vehicles (from retail sales) have not significantly increased. In fact, when you take inflation into account, some cars have gotten cheaper over the years.

So I don't particularly agree with the argument that cost of (vehicle) repairs is going up significantly. Because if it is, ICBC would be writing the car off instead of repairing it, and they have been doing that since the Stone Age (of auto insurance).

The costs of bodily injuries, legal settlements, and fradulent claims have been going up though. I remember my physiotherapist used to charge $20 per visit 15 years ago. Now it is bloody $70. I've read from the newspapers that lawsuits are far more common and lengthier than they were in the past as well. And insurance fraud has become more rampant. Those are more likely the real reasons for ICBC's rising costs of doing business.

[evil_jigglypuff]

This.

Originally Posted by Traum

The costs of bodily injuries, legal settlements, and fradulent claims have been going up though. I remember my physiotherapist used to charge $20 per visit 15 years ago. Now it is bloody $70. I've read from the newspapers that lawsuits are far more common and lengthier than they were in the past as well. And insurance fraud has become more rampant. Those are more likely the real reasons for ICBC's rising costs of doing business.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Traum

However, bear in mind that the costs of vehicles (from retail sales) have not significantly increased. In fact, when you take inflation into account, some cars have gotten cheaper over the years.

So I don't particularly agree with the argument that cost of (vehicle) repairs is going up significantly. Because if it is, ICBC would be writing the car off instead of repairing it, and they have been doing that since the Stone Age (of auto insurance).

A simple fender bender that used to cost $2500 to fix 10 years ago on a $20k car (and we all know $2500 doesn't even cover a bumper and headlight nowadays), its now $5000 to fix on a $30k car. Still well below the threshold to write the car off, but the repair cost has doubled while the premiums have not really increased to match.

Anecdotally speaking, 10 years ago the majority of cars on the road were your typical econoboxes Corollas and Civics. Nowadays the status quo in Greater Vancouver is your BMW, MB, Acura, Lexus; so once again the threshold to write these significantly more expensive off is much higher and they get repaired at higher costs more often than not.

So with cost of repairs, physical injuries and increased cost of treatment, and fraudulent claims all going up, I don't see how anybody can think it's reasonable for rates to not go up. The solution to this is improved education and more stringent testing, but this takes so many years before a result is seen that no politician will have the balls to implement this.

[Mancini]

ICBC can screw me over if you fix the cost of real estate to something more reasonable.