What are peoples thoughts on running ICBC as a co-op while introducing private insurers alongside to increase competition?

Glad someone realizes that ICBC pay is terrible. Just like anything else portrayed in the media should be taken with a grain of salt.

Saw this coming a mile awhile. Everyone was just too ecstatic and blinded about no tolls.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't... On both accounts lol

The way I see it, we can propose dozens of alternatives to our insurance model but alternative options are not even going to be considered for a second.

Things like opening the market up for competition, making bad drivers pay and dangerous drivers pay more, and speed limits are not going to be things the government looks at while they try and fix this nightmare.

The simplest and easiest solution for them right now is just pay out less, SIGNIFICANTLY less.

Regardless, I'm doubtful that we will see our insurance rates go down at all. They will save money down the long road by spending less on the claims and prevent people from getting fair compensation.

In my opinion, ICBC's focus should be on making the party at fault pay. You were driving excessively fast and caused an accident? Pay a higher deductible. You were talking on your phone while you caused an accident? Drinking and driving? Pay a higher deductible.

Spending $400 Million dollars on an upgrade of infrastructure when you're bleeding money
probably wasn't the wisest thing to do. Yet they did it anyways. The people running this show have no idea what they are doing and have little to no personal stake in the company. Profitable or not, the heads will remain in the green no matter what.

In the end, no matter what they chose, we the consumer will end up paying big time for their poor management.

I feel like injury claims lawyers are a big reason they haven't capped soft tissue claims..

Personally, I think the co-op idea sounds good. It was floated by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation and picked up by the conservative party.

As a co-op, the government would be much less susceptible to siphoning money from it. It would also keep from ditching ICBC and it's workers completely, while offering options/competition from private insurers, which would likely lower rates.
That covers a lot of bases.
Unfortunately, you are correct though. NDP would never give private insurance a thought. Especially considering ICBC was their brainchild.
They'll likely just continue to make the customer pay. One way or the other

Thoughts and opinion on the changes to ICBC..

ICBC placing $5,500 cap for pain and suffering on minor injury claims - British Columbia - CBC News

“ICBC will be putting a cap of $5,500 for pain and suffering on minor injury claims, as part of a series of reforms by the provincial government to fix the financial crisis at the public auto insurance company.

The cap, scheduled to go into effect on April 1, 2019, will not apply to wage loss and medical care, or for legal costs.

ICBC says the average payout for pain and suffering for minor injuries was $16,500 in 2016.

In addition, ICBC will be doubling the overall limit that can be claimed for medical care and expenses — from $150,000 to $300,000, retroactive to Jan. 1 — increasing injury benefits, and will put in place an independent dispute resolution process for certain claims.

The suite of changes is intended to drastically reduce the incentive to file legal claims against ICBC.

ICBC estimates the reforms will save the organization — which faces an estimated $1.3 billion deficit for this fiscal year — a billion dollars annually.

Last week, the provincial insurer posted a net loss of $935 million for the first nine months of the current fiscal year.

Attorney General David Eby described the situation as a "financial dumpster fire."

The corporation said the "sizable and significant loss" proves it's under growing financial pressure, caused by a rapid increase in the number of collisions across the province as well as the rising costs of settling those claims.

A statement also said the losses show premiums are no longer covering payouts.

In the past, Eby has blamed ICBC's financial problems on the former B.C. Liberal government, which he said failed to address issues at the insurer years ago.”

what do you know. after all that blaming of the liberals siphoning money from ICBC being the problem, they go ahead and do the exact thing everyone has said is the problem, cap "owe my neck" payouts, like every other province in canada does. and this will result in a BILLION DOLLARS in savings per year.

good job NDP on going ahead and doing this. but you can probably stop blaming the Liberals at every possible chance since the thing you fixed was not actually caused by the Liberals no matter how much you wish it was.

At a practical level, what can you do to claw the money back from the Libs? You can't sue them for draining the money out from ICBC.

What would you have them do to patch up that $1B debt hole the Liberals have dug?

It remains to be seen how ICBC defines "minor injuries", but a $5.5k cap for payments doesn't look good to me. From what I can see, their reason for doing this is because minor injuries costs went up from $5k in year 2000 to $16k+ now. But after adjusting for inflation, $5k in year 2000 is almost $6800 in today's money. Essentially, the minor injuries payout amount got reduced. FailFish

Seriously WTF, NDP? If you're gonna cap it, at least make the payout indexed to inflation.

Wouldn't the easy fix be to operate ICBC like a closed system and stop taking money from it?

They will also consider whether you do any sort of track days, AutoX, etc. and could cancel any of your policies at any time. A gent in Oregon did a RallyX event (think AutoX on dirt) and his insurance company decided they disliked this so much that they cancelled the policy for his car, his wifes car, and their house (ie all of them).

They can also decide to simply not take you on as a customer at all, as my buddy found when he moved to Quebec and spent months trying to find anybody willing to insure his RHD car.

I know ICBC isn't perfect, but I don't want to have to research a bunch of different insurance companies or worry about my policies being cancelled on a whim.

Is the provincial government still doing it? I seem to recall that shortly prior to the provincial election, Todd Stone (then Transportation Minister) issued a stop on taking money out of ICBC.

If they did that would be great, though that still leaves the gaping hole left by the money they've already taken.

ICBC works. Period. The government needs to keep their dick out of it. Sucking up any and all the profits from it. For those who want to open insurance up to anyone, careful what you wish for.

With all the scammers out there in our province, private insurance will be forced to adjust and it won't be so pretty. Can't compare what happens in Ontario or anywhere else on this planet. We have really, really dumb drivers. Add the droves of dishonest people we have in our neck of the woods to that mix and it's no wAnder we're screwed.

Nobody can predict how it's going to turn out, but privatizing may not be a good solution or alternative. What it might do, is penalize the bad drivers and the ones who scam the system.

It's like our health care system. Three times as many Healthcare Cards as there are bona fide residents?????

If you scam, you get deported, lifetime ban from driving in this province, etc. A bit harsh, perhaps, but when push comes to shove, legitimate citizens should not have to compensate for the leeches out there who continually suck us dry.

/rant.

Yup, we're hooped. The NDP is going to have to try and dig us out of that very deep hole. People will forget and the Liberals will come waltzing in to save the day.......... the mess they got us into in the first place.

A buddy of mine used to live in Brampton, ON, which has the distinction of being the most expensive place in Canada for car insurance. He had no claims history, no tickets, and was paying something like $400 a month for a 2012 Mazda 3. He's 25.

The reason Brampton is so expensive compared to the areas around it is exactly because of what you said. Lots of morons mixed with lots of scammers. Unfortunately I think the situation in the Lower Mainland would mirror Brampton if private insurance was to be implemented.

Be careful what you wish for....

Scammers, you say? Older article, but it does exist.

'Project Whiplash' bust nabs 37 for auto insurance fraud | National Post

the liberals pulled $1billion total from ICBC over 5 years and they didn't pull money out in 2017. ICBC being $1.3 billion in deficit in ONE year, does not mean they are in deficit because of the liberals pulling money out over several years. its fucking math. the $1.3billion isn't an accrued debt, it is an operating deficit. they're paying out $1.3billion more in expenses in 2017 than they are bringing in.

you know how everyone feels they deserve to get a cheque for $10k from ICBC if they get in an accident? and everyone says they had some sort of unproveable suffering, even with a small fender bender? the cap on the 'pain and suffering' is to put a cap on those 'injury' claims. not on legitimate injury claims, which you can see by the fact they doubled the possible medical expense payout on those.

hate the liberals all you want, and be upset at them pulling money out. but be fair and say the hole that ICBC is in isn't entirely because of that money, its due to claim costs. Cost of claims has doubled from 3billion to 5.9billion from 2013 to 2017. At the same time, revenue has rose from 3.9billion to 6.1billion. The increase in claim costs have outpaced revenue by almost a billion dollars. I fucking hate the NDP but Im open minded enough to praise them for actually doing something positive to steer this in the right direction. Time will tell if their $1billion dollar correction claim is accurate or not tho.

But if that 1 Billion wasn't taken out over 5 years, and say it was invested or just kept in the piggy bank for any future problems like the one we're in right now, it would probably be a wash, no?

To give the Liberals a pass on this is fucking nuts. What about the reports of the Liberals turning a blind eye to a 2014 report telling them to do something about it back then?

Both are good points worth repeating, esp how the Libs have basically turned a blind eye to the hemorrhaging crown corp, but continued to drain its reserves to pad up the budget numbers. How do you give a pass on something like that?

Plus, the liberals' policy is to never tell the truth. Stretch it perhaps or just plain hide it. I bet my bottom dollar they squeezed as much as they could from crown corporations.... not just ICBC. And, hide it they can. Also, I think their agenda is to destroy crown corporations in favour of private corporations. They're just waiting in the wings to see the NDP fuck things up so they can do the American thing. Come waltzing in looking like heroes.

BTW, on a side note, Dave Barett, former premier under the NDP flag, passed away recently. That guy in three years made some pretty significant changes to this province. ICBC for one, BC Ambulance Service, Agricultural Land Reserve, etc. etc. etc........

https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/02/03/Dave-Barrett-Obit/

And, no, I'm not an NDP supporter. I support politicians who have the people's interest at heart. All the people.

I just read the above article and wow, a guy from the eastside. Ex Bruins, too.


RIP, Mr. Barrett.

RIP

https://www.cfjctoday.com/article/60...rn-icbc-around

Right. The one who fxxked it up tells you he did a lot to save the crown corp. What makes you think Stone has any credibility?

The optional to basic capital transfer is moving money from one pocket to the other.

Some argue that the litigious manner ICBC has adopted under the Liberals is resulting in higher dispute numbers and long, drawn out claims:

How incoming changes may affect your ICBC claim, payout - NEWS 1130

The new IT system that was implemented was a HUGE disaster at initial rollout. I happened to be renewing my insurance shortly after the new IT system was deployed, and the autoplan broker was bxtching how the system constantly crashed, how shxt didn't work, or things became more inconvenient, etc. It wouldn't have been cheap to get the emergency fixes out, and I seem to get the impression that it went through several rounds before the IT side stablized.

IIRC, the "new" windshield program was something that the Libs took away in the first place, only to reinstate it. Should we be thankful for that?

They doubled the luxury vehicle premiums, and it was still nowhere nearly enough to cover the costs of those vehicles. And besides, as common a sight as they may be in Richmond, overall across the entire province, the numbers and the extra revenue generated from these luxury vehicles are still a blip in the grand scheme of things, and were more of a show piece to draw eyeballs away from the real financial problems of ICBC.

Don't forget that Liberals also announced that ICBC will get out of the luxury car insurance business. Anyone with the slightest business sense will know that the high end market is always the most profitable. The thing to do would have been to hike luxury car insurance rates to the point where it is healthily profitable, because demand for those high end stuff is way more inelastic than the demand for average / cheap stuff.

The problem is that transferring money from the Optional capital into Basic badly drained the funds required for the Optional mandatory minimum, numbers it was unable to meet under regulations. Which means it now has to raise rates to help get those Optional numbers back in line, or at least implement other changes to offset it.

For the record, while the Liberals did rewrite the law to allow them to take cash out of ICBC's coffers, the NDP did the same thing with BC Hydro many years prior to that. And BC Hydro is in their own hot mess right now because of it. So it's not so much of an NDP vs Liberal thing rather than a "all ruling parties stop taking dividends from Crown Corporations and let them keep a cash surplus for when things do eventually go South!"

Motor vehicle accidents also shot up from 260k to 330k from '12-'16.

It's easy to point fingers at a former government.
I think it'd be wise to wait and compare though. Just my opinion.

In my experience many autoplan brokers aren't the most tech savvy people, and no matter what slight change has been made they complain about it. When I renewed my insurance last week I was in and out faster than ever before.