REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

UnknownJinX · 08-31-2018, 11:29 AM

Yesterday I was talking to my cousin. She has very recently bought a 15 Ford Focus with only about 11000(currently 13000)km on it. Automatic, not sure what engine it is. She told me that she found the car to be a bit sluggish going uphill. I ask her what kind of gas she uses and she told me she uses Super Save because it's cheaper than everyone else. Obviously, they are not a Top Tier gas station.

I am wondering if anyone has had experience using their gas and had similar issues. Thanks!

bcrdukes · 08-31-2018, 11:44 AM

I haven't used Super Save Gas, but you may want to ask if she uses the same station each and every time.

I've had some bad fuel from the same Costco and Petro Canada a few times, and stopped going to those specific stations immediately. They were by no means one-offs, but enough to make my econobox Corolla run shittier than it already does. Nevermind going uphill, but even from a red light, it was sluggish.

Traum · 08-31-2018, 11:59 AM

What makes you think the sluggish performance is gas-related? There are literally tons of factors that can lead to sluggish engine performance.

UnknownJinX · 08-31-2018, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I haven't used Super Save Gas, but you may want to ask if she uses the same station each and every time.

I've had some bad fuel from the same Costco and Petro Canada a few times, and stopped going to those specific stations immediately. They were by no means one-offs, but enough to make my econobox Corolla run shittier than it already does. Nevermind going uphill, but even from a red light, it was sluggish.

She says she uses the same station for the most part. Occasionally she uses other brands, but she isn't sure if it improves with other gas.

Kinda funny you mentioned that. I have used Shell 91 on my own RX-8 from this one station I usually go to. No obvious performance issues, but the gas mileage seems to be a bit lower than normal(I drive relatively the same way) and it reeks of rotten eggs behind the car. Used Chevron 94 and the rotten egg smell is no longer there. Shell is actually not as common on the island.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traum

What makes you think the sluggish performance is gas-related? There are literally tons of factors that can lead to sluggish engine performance.

I know, it's just a guess. I am in Vancouver rn and all my equipment is on the island. I told my cousin that she is welcome to drop by my place any point for a proper look.

underscore · 08-31-2018, 01:15 PM

What octane is the car rated for? I'd probably reset the ECU too, just in case it has some bad habits from the previous owner causing problems.

UnknownJinX · 08-31-2018, 09:22 PM

Being a Ford Focus, it can't be more than 87.

I rode in her car today, by the way. It felt pretty normal. She says the issue only manifests when on highway or when going uphill.

bcrdukes · 09-01-2018, 05:56 AM

You may want to try driving the car. You'd be able to tell if it's sluggish or not.

tiger_handheld · 09-01-2018, 09:31 AM

slightly off topic: how to know if a gas station is "Top Tier"?

Is Domo Gas top tier?
Isn't all gas the same/come from the same refinery?

UnknownJinX · 09-01-2018, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

You may want to try driving the car. You'd be able to tell if it's sluggish or not.

I will when I have the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

slightly off topic: how to know if a gas station is "Top Tier"?

Is Domo Gas top tier?
Isn't all gas the same/come from the same refinery?

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

And it's the additive package that makes a difference. It reduces the amount of deposit that can build up over time.

Traum · 09-01-2018, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

And it's the additive package that makes a difference. It reduces the amount of deposit that can build up over time.

Huh! Didn't realize Husky is not a Top Tier gas! Guess I shouldn't be using them as often then!

UnknownJinX · 09-02-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traum

Huh! Didn't realize Husky is not a Top Tier gas! Guess I shouldn't be using them as often then!

LOL, I didn't know that, either.

I currently only use Shell 91 and Chevron 94, mostly the latter. My RX-8 calls for at least 91, and these two gases are the only ones in BC that are ethanol-free. All the other 91(including Chevron 91) have some ethanol.

Not saying Shell is bad, but for some reason, my RX-8 gives me a rotten egg smell out of the exhaust. Goes away with Chevron 94, and it's only 2 cents more than Shell 91 per litre.

tiger_handheld · 09-02-2018, 12:37 PM

I thought ethanol was good for the car?

Isn't Husky all ethanol?

SpeedStars · 09-02-2018, 12:49 PM

For the 2015 focus, if it's sluggish uphill - it may not be the gas at all, but the transmission. The dct auto in it is terrible and almost every single pre facelift (2016?) has this feeling of a slipping clutch - which she could mistake for sluggishness

Traum · 09-02-2018, 05:58 PM

SpeedStars remarks reminded me -- when that generation of the Focus came out, Ford had issued a whole bunch of transmission firmware updates to improve the shifting characteristics and behaviour of the DCT. Perhaps your cousin can bring the car into a Ford dealership and have them check whether there are any transmission TSBs / updates she hasn't received.

Additionally, a quick read on Wikipedia shows the following:

Quote:

Transmission reliability issues

Along with the Ford Fiesta, the Focus equipped with the Ford DPS6 PowerShift transmission has received much criticism due to transmission shuddering, including several lemon law claims.[14] The issue is due to the dry type clutches associated with gasoline models. Ford's current response is to replace the clutch pack assembly (with updated parts) when shuddering exceeds 250 rpm (upon customer complaint). This is proving to be a short term remedy as it is not unusual for the clutch packs to be replaced every 6,000 miles (9,700 km).[citation needed]

There have been at least 6 revisions of clutch packs and transmission control modules since inception. Newer clutch packs and transmissions are more resistant to wear and fluid contamination, as the source of many shudder issues involved an improperly installed seal which was leaking transmission fluid onto the dry clutches.[15] Ford also claims there are "Changes to the clutch material for better performance across temperature ranges (new for 2016)."[15] Some consumer complaints are due to the normal operating characteristics of the transmission, because the DPS6 does not contain a torque converter fluid coupling and does not behave similarly to traditional torque converter transmissions, instead sharing some characteristics found in traditional manual transmissions.[16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I thought ethanol was good for the car?

Isn't Husky all ethanol?

IIRC, in the earlier days when ethanol was added into gasoline, it was meant to act as the oxygenate to replace the toxic MTBE additive. IMO, further marketing effort branded it as an "earth-friendly" fuel since it is derived from corn, and is thus a "renewable" fuel.

Over time, people came to realize that much of the ethanol blended into gas was really coming out from corn that was meant to be food, and people started getting pissed as a result. People also started to realize ethanol reduced gas mileage, and was corrosive to a number of materials commonly found in older vehicles. It is also hygroscopic, so it attracts water, and leads to further corrosion / oxidation in certain engine parts.

In additional to being an oxygenate, ethanol also has a higher octane rating than gas, so when it is blended into gasoline, it acts like an octane booster. Husky used to market this as one of the major benefits of their gasoline, and their lowest (octane) grade of gas was 89, but it was sold at 87 octane gas prices. But the practice has long been dropped.

Jmac · 09-02-2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Shell is actually not as common on the island.

Depends where you are on the island.

It's very common in the Cowichan Valley (2 in Duncan, 1 in Crofton, 1 in Ladysmith, 1 in Mill Bay) and other lower-density cities (Courtenay, Parksville) but Nanaimo and Victoria don't seem to have very many relative to their populations (Nanaimo only has 2 now I think).

UnknownJinX · 09-02-2018, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traum

SpeedStars remarks reminded me -- when that generation of the Focus came out, Ford had issued a whole bunch of transmission firmware updates to improve the shifting characteristics and behaviour of the DCT. Perhaps your cousin can bring the car into a Ford dealership and have them check whether there are any transmission TSBs / updates she hasn't received.

Additionally, a quick read on Wikipedia shows the following:

IIRC, in the earlier days when ethanol was added into gasoline, it was meant to act as the oxygenate to replace the toxic MTBE additive. IMO, further marketing effort branded it as an "earth-friendly" fuel since it is derived from corn, and is thus a "renewable" fuel.

Over time, people came to realize that much of the ethanol blended into gas was really coming out from corn that was meant to be food, and people started getting pissed as a result. People also started to realize ethanol reduced gas mileage, and was corrosive to a number of materials commonly found in older vehicles. It is also hygroscopic, so it attracts water, and leads to further corrosion / oxidation in certain engine parts.

In additional to being an oxygenate, ethanol also has a higher octane rating than gas, so when it is blended into gasoline, it acts like an octane booster. Husky used to market this as one of the major benefits of their gasoline, and their lowest (octane) grade of gas was 89, but it was sold at 87 octane gas prices. But the practice has long been dropped.

Yeah, I recall reading about the issues Ford DCT has in an article on DCT. Might be worth checking out then.

As for ethanol, well said. E10 blend doesn't affect gas mileage that much, though. I mainly just A. Don't support the corn industry and the lobbyism behind it and B. Don't want water contamination in my fuel tank, especially with the climate being so humid in the winter.

That said, if you have a turbocharged car tuned for ridiculous amount of boost and did modifications to handle ethanol fuel, you can make stupid amount of power with E85 fuel, as it is very knock-resistant.

Manic! · 09-02-2018, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmac

Depends where you are on the island.

It's very common in the Cowichan Valley (2 in Duncan, 1 in Crofton, 1 in Ladysmith, 1 in Mill Bay) and other lower-density cities (Courtenay, Parksville) but Nanaimo and Victoria don't seem to have very many relative to their populations (Nanaimo only has 2 now I think).

We use to be a Shell gas station but their gas margins got smaller so most independents dropped them. The ones you see on the Island are mostly from the old Payless gas station chain that shell bought years back.