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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 12-04-2018, 07:25 PM   #1
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Insurnace for lending your car to a friend/family member.

I don't use my car as much, and I thought to lend the car to my roommate/spouse/parents/family/friends.

If they crashed my car, would it affect my insurance rate?

I have heard there's something called "unlisted driver protection".

I talked to a few ICBC autoplan brokers and have heard different things from the staff there.

Some say if they crashed my car, my CRS would go up, regardless if another person was driving my car or not. Some say that the car cannot be operate by anyone else other than the owner.

Then why would I need "unlisted driver protection"?


Afterall, how could I lend my car to someone else, while not having to worry about my insurance rating if they get involved into an accident?
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:11 PM   #2
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The unlisted driver protection is not available yet until next year.

Based on current CRS rules, if they have an accident the claim will follow the owner if he policy is active. If the policy is cancelled, the claim will attach to the owner of the vehicle or attach to the driver, whoever gets a new plate first.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by cococly View Post
I don't use my car as much, and I thought to lend the car to my roommate/spouse/parents/family/friends.

If they crashed my car, would it affect my insurance rate?

I have heard there's something called "unlisted driver protection".

I talked to a few ICBC autoplan brokers and have heard different things from the staff there.

Some say if they crashed my car, my CRS would go up, regardless if another person was driving my car or not. Some say that the car cannot be operate by anyone else other than the owner.

Then why would I need "unlisted driver protection"?


Afterall, how could I lend my car to someone else, while not having to worry about my insurance rating if they get involved into an accident?
Currently, if someone else crashes your car, your insurance goes up because you're listed as owner of vehicle. It's been that way forever, and will not change until next year.

Under new rules, the accident follows the driver. So you as the owner, will not see insurance premiums go up (or changes to your CRS level), if your friend crashes into a pole.

Also under the new rules, any person that will operate the vehicle more than 12 times a year MUST be listed on the insurance. If ICBC finds your wife drives the car every 2nd week, but is not on the insurance, they will deny coverage. The unlisted driver protection is something like $50 a year, and will cover you if an unlisted driver (that drives your car more than 12 times a year) causes an at-fault crash.

IMO it's a cash grab because it'll be impossible to prove who is and isn't driving your car more than 12 times year, but also it's just $50.

No need to get your pitchforks up, although I would think Autoplan brokers should know more than the general public.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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IMO it's a cash grab because it'll be impossible to prove who is and isn't driving your car more than 12 times year, but also it's just $50.

No need to get your pitchforks up, although I would think Autoplan brokers should know more than the general public.
Like the pleasure vs driving to and from work premiums
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #5
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Is there any reasonable way to have two vehicles insured with myself being the primary driver and my wife secondary even though she uses it more than 50% and not get fucked?

Or am I just being stupid and should go “by the book”?

She’s only had her license for about 5 years and got into a little fender bender in a parking lot about 3 years ago so her insurance is shit. We’d save about $1500 a year if I was to insure both in my name, but then I could get fucked if we had a claim?
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:11 PM   #6
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^ well what you are describing is insurance fraud, so there is a chance you could get fucked and there's a chance you save $1500. What kind of answer are you looking for here?

If it were me I don't think I'd be posting about this on a public forum that is easily accessible to icbc investigators.
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:37 PM   #7
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^ well what you are describing is insurance fraud, so there is a chance you could get fucked and there's a chance you save $1500. What kind of answer are you looking for here?

If it were me I don't think I'd be posting about this on a public forum that is easily accessible to icbc investigators.
Just asking if there is a way for me to be the insurance holder with her as primary driver, as the broker agents are typically useless in answering questions like these. Don’t currently insure our vehicles this way, nor plan to if it doesn’t work.
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:45 PM   #8
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Thought I remember reading/hearing that listing an additional driver (spouse, family member, child) costs $135/yr per person. You can choose to pay the $50 unlisted driver fee, but if ICBC was to investigate after an accident and learn that your spouse drove more than 12 times in a year, you'd be SOL.

For what it's worth, I'm putting my wife under the unlisted driver as she's driven my car once in the last 4 years.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:25 PM   #9
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Here's what's fucked up. I have multiple vehicles insured under my name, where I'm the only driver, yet I'm forced to pay full premiums on all of them. How the fuck can 1 person drive 4 vehicles at the same time?

If you're going to charge extra for multiple drivers on one vehicle, where's the discount for multiple vehicles and only one driver?
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fliptuner View Post
Here's what's fucked up. I have multiple vehicles insured under my name, where I'm the only driver, yet I'm forced to pay full premiums on all of them. How the fuck can 1 person drive 4 vehicles at the same time?

If you're going to charge extra for multiple drivers on one vehicle, where's the discount for multiple vehicles and only one driver?

the discount is

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Old 12-05-2018, 10:41 PM   #11
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Just asking if there is a way for me to be the insurance holder with her as primary driver, as the broker agents are typically useless in answering questions like these. Don’t currently insure our vehicles this way, nor plan to if it doesn’t work.
It depends on what your definition of the primary driver. You can be the registered owner of the vehicle and your spouse can be the principal operator. With that being said, the rates will likely follow her CRS discount, her rates, because she is he principal driver.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:49 PM   #12
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Thought I remember reading/hearing that listing an additional driver (spouse, family member, child) costs $135/yr per person. You can choose to pay the $50 unlisted driver fee, but if ICBC was to investigate after an accident and learn that your spouse drove more than 12 times in a year, you'd be SOL.

For what it's worth, I'm putting my wife under the unlisted driver as she's driven my car once in the last 4 years.
In the future, when you list your wife as a listed driver, the rates are rated differently. There’s some kind of formula that they use to calculate the rates.. it tough to say at his point if you can purchase the unlisted driver. We will have to see what are the rules and exclusions under the unlisted driver protection.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:14 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by fliptuner View Post
Here's what's fucked up. I have multiple vehicles insured under my name, where I'm the only driver, yet I'm forced to pay full premiums on all of them. How the fuck can 1 person drive 4 vehicles at the same time?

If you're going to charge extra for multiple drivers on one vehicle, where's the discount for multiple vehicles and only one driver?
I'm not saying it's right, but your argument could go the other way.

ICBC can just as likely say "You can't drive 4 vehicles at the same time, so why do you need insurance on all 4?" -- this is especially more suspicious if you have more than 1 driver in the household.

They kinda give you the benefit of the doubt by allowing you do insure all 4, but if someone else who drove one of the 4 cars got into a crash you can bet they will try their absolute hardest to fuck you.

If you live alone, then...
Spoiler!


Also, multiple vehicle discounts by private insurance companies (or bundles) are just them eating overhead costs and passing some savings to you because you give them more business...it's not fair to expect the same from ICBC.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:29 AM   #14
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I'm not saying it's right, but your argument could go the other way.

ICBC can just as likely say "You can't drive 4 vehicles at the same time, so why do you need insurance on all 4?" -- this is especially more suspicious if you have more than 1 driver in the household.

They kinda give you the benefit of the doubt by allowing you do insure all 4, but if someone else who drove one of the 4 cars got into a crash you can bet they will try their absolute hardest to fuck you.

If you live alone, then...
Spoiler!


Also, multiple vehicle discounts by private insurance companies (or bundles) are just them eating overhead costs and passing some savings to you because you give them more business...it's not fair to expect the same from ICBC.
Uhh, because I want a fuel-efficient daily driver and a weekend fun sports car, and I don't feel like going to insurance every weekend?

That's something I wanted to do, but unfortunately can't just because of the way insurance works here.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:38 AM   #15
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I drive my wife's car on weekends when we're together and have my own insurance on my own car. Based on this, does this mean she's have to pay an extra $135 so that I could be listed on her insurance? That's ridiculous if true
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:06 PM   #16
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As I understand it (with some of the news coming from my auto insurance broker), ICBC has yet to release the full details of how additional drivers would affect your insurance. So currently, everyone is only working on whatever tidbits of news that has trickled through the news, or rumours they've heard. There is no point in jumping to any conclusions at the moment.

Based on what we do know, adding additional drivers may or may not increase your insurance premiums. Take a simple case of a husband and wife living together, where each of them have a car currently insured under their respective names. Also assume that the wife is at CRS level -8 (40% discount) while the husband is at CRS -2 (10% discount). If the husband adds his wife's name to his car's insurance, there is no additional charges involved since the wife has a cleaner CRS record than the husband does.

On the other hand, if the wife adds the husband's name to her car insurance, the insurance premiums she pays will go up. How much it goes up is still unknown. I just know "a percentage" of the premium will be calculated based on the husband's CRS level. I've heard of anything between 20 - 40% of the premium will be calculated based on the husband's rate. So assuming the car costs $1200 for the wife to insure alone with her 40% discount (ie. $2000 insurance premium with 0% discount), and 20% of the premium is calculated using her husband's rate, we have:

$2000 x 60% x 80% + $2000 x 90% x 20%

- the 60% reflects the wife's 40% discount
- the 80% means the wife accounts for 80% of the insurance premium calculation
- the 90% reflects the husband's 10% discount
- the 20% means the husband accounts for 20% of the insurance premium calculation

And we end up with $1320 for the insurance on the wife's car -- a $120 extra.

Now, if they have an adult son who also wants to drive the car and be added to the policy, but he only has a CRS level 0 (0% discount), then because he has the worst driving record among the additional drivers, his CRS level will be used in the calculation instead of the husband's. The insurance premium calculation then becomes:

$2000 x 60% x 80% + $2000 x 100% x 20%

- the 60% reflects the wife's 40% discount
- the 80% means the wife accounts for 80% of the insurance premium calculation
- the 100% reflects the adult son's 0% discount
- the 20% means the son accounts for 20% of the insurance premium calculation

and they pay $1360 for insurance.

Of course, knowing ICBC, the calculation they end us using probably won't be nearly nearly as clear cut. But that's the basic idea of it.

I have been told that as long as the primary driver can provide a name, DOB, and driver licence number of the additional drivers, the person can be added to the auto insurance policy. The cost of insurance will be calculated based on the primary driver's CRS, and the CRS of the worst driver among the list.

Still, these are all just unconfirmed reports of how stuff will be calculated. As always, it'll cost whatever ICBC feels like charging us when it comes into effect on Sept 1, 2019.

Last edited by Traum; 12-06-2018 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:04 PM   #17
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In those cases they should have some sort of transferable insurance system them instead of getting full policies for all 4 vehicles
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:41 PM   #18
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:03 PM   #19
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Uhh, because I want a fuel-efficient daily driver and a weekend fun sports car, and I don't feel like going to insurance every weekend?

That's something I wanted to do, but unfortunately can't just because of the way insurance works here.
My point went over your head.

The point was that it's just as easy to argue "you can't drive 4 cars at the same time, you must be lending your vehicle(s) to other people in your household, so you can pay less insurance"

Imagine a scenario where a household has 3 cars, and three adult drivers - Dad, mom, son. Each person primarily drives their own vehicle.

Dad gets -43%, mom gets -20%, son gets 0%.

If the family wanted to dick the system, currently, they'd list all 3 cars under dad to get maximum savings, and hope ICBC doesn't find out. And let's be honest, we all know somebody that does this. Currently ICBC allows this, at full rates per vehicle, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're being honest and truly are the principal operator for all vehicles under your name.

If ICBC were to offer multi-vehicle discounts, the family that has no problem dicking the system to save a couple hundred bucks at the risk of being denied insurance when a crash happens, would absolutely have no problem now that the saving is far greater; Multi-vehicle discounts, in BC's case where ICBC is the sole basic insurance provider, gives greater incentive to commit insurance fraud.

The above scenario is much more common and plausible than one person actually using all three vehicles. And as corrupt and money-bleeding ICBC is, offering multi-vehicle discounts would only add fuel to their already sizable dumpster fire.

Last edited by inv4zn; 12-06-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:26 PM   #20
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^I agree and they need to impose stiff, and I mean really stiff penalties for those caught abusing the system like the above scenario. Something like lifetime ban of a BC drivers license of that one person, which in this case would be the dad

Hopefully that should act as a big enough deterrent
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:19 PM   #21
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Buy a fifth vehicle and apply for a fleet? Get one set of plates to swap between vehicles? I swear I heard something about this being available to personal retail customers instead of just auto dealers.
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