Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8936920)

Didn't test drove it much because I log my kms every time before handing in the keys.



Are you saying that it's okay to charge extra for their mistakes?

If a plumber come to fix your toilet, breaks a pipe and floods your bathroom, do you pay for their time to fix it?

If a painter comes to paint your house, painted the wrong panel, do you pay for their to time to fix it?

Do you own a business? I'll make sure to never pay for your service with that kind of mentality. Seriously, if you are paying for services because of their mistakes, you're an idiot.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero (Post 8936971)

reminds me of a client the other day who said they shopped 7 different places beforehand, and none had matched up to his expectations back in Victoria

doesn't want us to transfer documents over because 'just testing waters'

appointment goes well

sees the bill and says never paid this much before, explained he was billed exactly for the full hour of chair time according to the fee guide

still leaves visibly upset, lol

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8936863)

My total came out to be ~$455 to replace the wire, and all the diagnostics was exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. Here is the breakdown of my cost.

$82 went into verifying CEL and code to be exactly what my ODB reader indicated. (this cost wasn't mentioned at all)
$274 to replace the knock sensor short cord and reset the light (I assume the diagnostic fee went into this)
$13.66 sub cord(?)
$36.88 for shop supplies
$48.50 tax

I sat in the lounge from 9:00 AM to nearly 12 PM. If you ask me, who have almost zero knowledge in car repairs or whatnot, does it take 3 hours to replace a knock sensor wire? I would say no.



You can point out all the stuff that they might have to pay off but it does not say that on the receipt. When dealing business with customers, these have to be transparent. Why do you think cellphone companies was forced to be as detailed as possible when it comes to billing customers?

This is an issue with reasonable versus unreasonable. Imagine every time you walked into the supermarket, you have to pay an entrance fee of $20. To use the cart, $10 no refund. To use the basket, $5. Checking out with the cashier, $20 processing fee. Self checkout $20 administration fee. Anyone would complain.

In my case, I'm sure a shit ton of people agree that it is unreasonable.



Because it's revscene and you don't start a topic unless the community approves it right?



If that's what it is, then they should say it. Not just "diagnostic fee" and leaving the customer suspecting that they just wanna grab the cash outta your wallet. When they state diagnostic fee, and I have an idea how long it takes to diagnose a chewed sensor cord, I feel ripped off. If they just say, we charge 1 hour minimum for any service, then it feels different and an ease of comfort when I bring my car there to service.

Not sure if you are honestly backing up businesses that aren't transparent or just want to troll.

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8936920)

If a plumber come to fix your toilet, breaks a pipe and floods your bathroom, do you pay for their time to fix it?

If a painter comes to paint your house, painted the wrong panel, do you pay for their to time to fix it?

Originally Posted by mb_ (Post 8936940)

Just curious, what "mistakes" did this Honda dealer make?

Originally Posted by twitchyzero (Post 8936971)

reminds me of a client the other day who said they shopped 7 different places beforehand, and none had matched up to his expectations back in Victoria

doesn't want us to transfer documents over because 'just testing waters'

appointment goes well

sees the bill and says never paid this much before, explained he was billed exactly for the full hour of chair time according to the fee guide

still leaves visibly upset, lol

Originally Posted by Peturbo (Post 8937013)

Some people will just never be satisfied no matter what you do. Sad world we live in that people like this get rewarded when they complain while the quiet respectful one paying up get nothing extra in return



Sub cord is a replacement harness. wire was not repaired, instead replaced
3hrs is very reasonable for this repair. Assuming OP was at a dealership, you aren't the only person there for maintenance/repairs. It takes time for processing of work order, then you wait your turn for vehicle to actually get driven into shop and worked on.
You must remove intake plenum and intake manifolds to get access to wire, so yes it does take time to just replace this wire.

Also OP does not understand technicians often work flat rate. Experienced tech repairs a job that charges 3 hours in 2, you still pay 3. takes 4hrs, you still pay 3. Why should the tech get paid less for same amount of work when it took him years of experience to get to where he is.
Experience also leads to quicker diagnostics. Why would he take a pay cut on the same job. I've seen people go to average small shops and end up paying way more because they didnt have the experience and ended up taking forever to diagnose and replace way more then necessary.

Originally Posted by entrax (Post 8937085)

The same can be said about why the diag fee exists in the first place.

If your obd reader diagnoses a code, and you (the "technician" of your own diagnosis) told them to fix the wrong thing, do you pay the dealership for wasting their time?
If you buy your own pipes and tell a plumber to fix your problem, and it still leaks, are you not going to pay the plumber for their time?
If you buy your own paint and tell a painter what to paint, but you accidentally told him the wrong panel, are you not going to pay the painter for their time?

I'd love to watch you attempt to remove an air box/pipe, intake plenum, throttle body, coolant lines to tb, intake manifold, vacuum up the droppings (this isn't required, but i have never seen a tech continue working with droppings all over the place), dispose of possible dead rat, install all the parts back, top up coolant, run car, clear codes, test drive, write up a report, send car to wash, all in 3 hours.

$82 is dirt cheap for the diag fee, half off almost.
$274 is 2 hours it seems. which is even less than what i expected.
$13.66 for the subcord, reasonable
The only thing that's questionable (but still reasonable) is the shop supplies. It looks like a 10% charge (82+274+13.66 = 369.66) /10 = ~$36.88 but I can't be too sure of this. I think every shop does this, a certain percentage of the bill.

Originally Posted by prudz (Post 8937086)

^ My thoughts exactly. The op continues to bitch about it being a rip off. Fix it yourself if you think it is so easy and not worth paying someone for their time. The problem lays in the fact op doesn't seem to value anyone else's time other than his own. Op is selfish. Complains about his car being in and out in 3 hours for something he doesn't seem to fully understand is not a 10 minute fix. He then continues to bitch about how paying someone at a normal reasonable rate is a rip off. Let me ask you OP, what do you do for a living? Whatever your answer is, you make to much and I want you to work for far less.

What I find interesting is that the OP bitched about the $140 code read, goes out and claims he bought a reader and did it in 30 seconds yet he still went ahead and had the shop do the work? Why wouldn't you just do the work yourself since you seem to know the exact issue?

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8938058)

Just curious, do you always take things out of context and start a new topic on it?
Lol between you and me, you're the one who's been taking things out of context in this thread. I simply asked a question and you responded by being defensive about it.


Funny thing was, the reception even agreed that the $140 was robbery.



1. Processing of orders and waiting for your vehicle to get driven into should not be part of any charges.
No one said anything about processing paperwork, waiting for vehicle to be worked on, washed, etc being part of the charge. It was part of the 3 hour wait
2. It's not easy to tell if the parts in your car have been removed and put back on, and I always check. In my case, the intake didn't get removed. The bolts were untouched. Nothing around the intake or the engine was touched. No signs of any marking at all and dust were still perfectly laid out. I assume they raised the car and worked from underneath as the sensor is beneath the intake manifold.
I can tell you for a fact that they would not have worked on it from underneath. I used to work as a service advisor at a Honda dealership before and some techs were able to make time while others weren't. This particular technician may have found a way to be more efficient and may not have had to take the manifold off to replace the sensor + harness
3. I guess you're right. If I was a plumber and I see a job that takes 3 hours and I could finish in 1, why would I fix it in 1 and charge for 1 right? (sarcasm btw)
This is the trade industry, it's been like that forever and it's not going to change. It's not the tradesmans fault that they're able to find ways (I do admit that some people cut corners) to work more efficiently and finish a job under a quoted time



The thing is, I didn't buy the parts and told Honda to fix it. The other reader said that they should charge for circumstances where they drop things and try to fish it out? Let's leave it to whatever he meant and not try to interpreted it yourself.

Why did you even assume they did those things you mentioned? They didn't.

See, if the diag fee was cut in half because I serviced with them, then that leaves the customer with a peace of mind that they're not getting ripped off. $82 vs $140 is a big difference. I was told I would be charged $140 for diag fee before bringing it in and started this topic. If I knew it would be reduced, that would have been a different story. But was it reduced? Or it went into the $274? Nobody knows.



Honestly ask yourself and not for the sake of this topic and who's right and wrong or what not. Do you think $140 for diagnostic fee is reasonable? Think about it for a second, what you imagine really happens in that 1 hour of diagnostic.
Yes it's reasonable. I used to work as a technician and we have to follow diagnostic procedures to determine what's causing the DTC to come on. I'd tell you more about it but you're so close minded about this whole thing.

Claim I bought an ODB reader? Do you often read things that are not there?

If you have a leaking tire, and confirm that there is a leak (in any method you wish to use), do you replace the tire yourself?
If you got infected with a STD (I hope to god you didn't), confirmed it that it was a STD, do you cure it yourself?
If your computer constantly give you an error code, confirmed online what the error is, do you fix it yourself?

You see where I'm going with this right?

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8938058)

Just curious, do you always take things out of context and start a new topic on it?



Funny thing was, the reception even agreed that the $140 was robbery.
Nor does she know even remotely what it takes to diagnose the car.


1. Processing of orders and waiting for your vehicle to get driven into should not be part of any charges.
2. It's not easy to tell if the parts in your car have been removed and put back on, and I always check. In my case, the intake didn't get removed. The bolts were untouched. Nothing around the intake or the engine was touched. No signs of any marking at all and dust were still perfectly laid out. I assume they raised the car and worked from underneath as the sensor is beneath the intake manifold.

I have personally done this repair several times before myself . I will tell you it is impossible to repair from underneath.

3. I guess you're right. If I was a plumber and I see a job that takes 3 hours and I could finish in 1, why would I fix it in 1 and charge for 1 right? (sarcasm btw)

so lets say an inexperienced plumber takes 3 hours to do a repair that an experienced plumber would be able to do in 1hr. Are you still going to want to pay him 3 whole hours even though it someone else could've done it much faster? As you see, this can go both ways. That's why there is a standardized labour time for different jobs so people wont get "ripped off"



The thing is, I didn't buy the parts and told Honda to fix it. The other reader said that they should charge for circumstances where they drop things and try to fish it out? Let's leave it to whatever he meant and not try to interpreted it yourself.

What he meant was that you're complaining now, but if you were to do it yourself and end up dropping stuff down the manifold, youre going to wish you just paid someone to do it for you.

Why did you even assume they did those things you mentioned? They didn't.

See, if the diag fee was cut in half because I serviced with them, then that leaves the customer with a peace of mind that they're not getting ripped off. $82 vs $140 is a big difference. I was told I would be charged $140 for diag fee before bringing it in and started this topic. If I knew it would be reduced, that would have been a different story. But was it reduced? Or it went into the $274? Nobody knows.



Honestly ask yourself and not for the sake of this topic and who's right and wrong or what not. Do you think $140 for diagnostic fee is reasonable? Think about it for a second, what you imagine really happens in that 1 hour of diagnostic.

1hr IMO is quite fair. Before you even arrived, how do they know it isn't like a code for P1457 or combination of several codes. Good luck getting that diagnosed within 1 hour.
It annoys me that people are the most unwilling to pay for diagnoses compared to normal service work. Because this is usually what separates a good technician vs average backyard mechanic (or even Mr.lube kid) doing fluid drain and fills.

Claim I bought an ODB reader? Do you often read things that are not there?

If you have a leaking tire, and confirm that there is a leak (in any method you wish to use), do you replace the tire yourself?
If you got infected with a STD (I hope to god you didn't), confirmed it that it was a STD, do you cure it yourself?
If your computer constantly give you an error code, confirmed online what the error is, do you fix it yourself?

You see where I'm going with this right?

Originally Posted by mb_ (Post 8938069)

Since you sound like you know how businesses should be run and how to fix things "properly" then why did you even take it to the dealership in the first place? Seems like you came into this thread thinking you'd get sympathy and it backfired lol.

:)

Originally Posted by mb_ (Post 8938069)

Since you sound like you know how businesses should be run and how to fix things "properly" then why did you even take it to the dealership in the first place? Seems like you came into this thread thinking you'd get sympathy and it backfired lol.

:)

Originally Posted by Peturbo (Post 8938145)

.

Originally Posted by toyota86 (Post 8938155)

Most shop charge minimum one hour if you approve the shop to do the diagnosis. If it take 5 mins, you get billed 1 hr. If it takes 1 hour, you get billed 1 hour. If it takes more than 1 hour, shop will seek your approval to continue. If you are a long time customer with the service adviser or service manager and they like you, they may give you a deal and cut that 1 hour down to 30 mins if it only took 5 mins.

If you diagnose the problem yourself and ask the shop to change parts only, it should be reflected and noted on the work order and bill. Whether the part you specified to change fixed the problem or not, the shop is not responsible for either. If additional parts and costs are needed to get to the part you need to change, the shop will get your approval before going ahead.

Parts replacement have set times associated with each job. If the allotted time is 3 hours and you approve 3 hours. Then you will be billed 3 hours. If the technician spends 5 mins, you get billed 3 hours. If the technician spends 4 hours, you get billed 3 hours.

Good, experienced, technicians find short cuts, make special tools, and find better ways to fix things. When you pay 3 hours for a job and it takes the technician 5 mins. You are not just paying for the physical labour aspect of the job, you are mostly paying for his knowledge, experience, special tools, creativity, skills, to complete the job efficiently.

This is how most shops operate. If you don't like it, fix it yourself. Or, just keep buying new cars and dump them before warranty ends.

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8938058)

Claim I bought an ODB reader? Do you often read things that are not there?

If you have a leaking tire, and confirm that there is a leak (in any method you wish to use), do you replace the tire yourself?
If you got infected with a STD (I hope to god you didn't), confirmed it that it was a STD, do you cure it yourself?
If your computer constantly give you an error code, confirmed online what the error is, do you fix it yourself?

You see where I'm going with this right?

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8936390)

My CEL came on and for the dealership to get the code, it costs $140. I got an OBD reader and got the code in 30 seconds.

This is straight up robbery. Anyone know a reputable mechanic that don't charge an arm and a leg?

Originally Posted by toyota86 (Post 8938155)

Most shop charge minimum one hour if you approve the shop to do the diagnosis. If it take 5 mins, you get billed 1 hr. If it takes 1 hour, you get billed 1 hour. If it takes more than 1 hour, shop will seek your approval to continue. If you are a long time customer with the service adviser or service manager and they like you, they may give you a deal and cut that 1 hour down to 30 mins if it only took 5 mins.

Originally Posted by mr_chin (Post 8938058)

Why did you even assume they did those things you mentioned? They didn't.

See, if the diag fee was cut in half because I serviced with them, then that leaves the customer with a peace of mind that they're not getting ripped off. $82 vs $140 is a big difference. I was told I would be charged $140 for diag fee before bringing it in and started this topic. If I knew it would be reduced, that would have been a different story. But was it reduced? Or it went into the $274? Nobody knows.

Originally Posted by PiuYi (Post 8938454)

Oh and parts are way too pricey these days too ($1000+ for a headlight on most euros??) I guess manufacturers realised they have a monopoly on pretty much everything in your car :whistle:

Originally Posted by Fafine (Post 8943280)

What car is it?
It only happened once so far?