REVscene Automotive Forum

REVscene Automotive Forum (https://www.revscene.net/forums/)
-   Vancouver Auto Chat (https://www.revscene.net/forums/vancouver-auto-chat_173/)
-   -   Getting audited by icbc for underdeclaring car value (https://www.revscene.net/forums/715832-getting-audited-icbc-underdeclaring-car-value.html)

Oeks1 01-28-2019 09:10 PM

Getting audited by icbc for underdeclaring car value
 
Has anyone ever gotten audited for underdeclaring car value during sale?

vitaminG 01-28-2019 09:53 PM

The purchase price is under the purchaser portion of the transfer form and obviously the purchaser is responsible for the taxes. When I sell a vehicle I tell the purchaser they can put whatever the hell they want in there, but if icbc calls me I'm not going to lie to them

Suprarz666 01-28-2019 10:20 PM

^theres now a section on the form for the seller to fill out the selling price.

trollface 01-29-2019 06:34 AM

Srs question. How do they "audit" this.

ICBC has no idea if the interior of the car is stripped out, with a rod knock, nothing works and a dog took dumps in the trunk all summer. Not all 2010 civics are the same, some are complete piles of shit and not worth jack.

AVG selling price is exactly that, avg. There is half below the line and half above.

!Aznboi128 01-29-2019 06:57 AM

As a person that sold and bought a few cars (no where near as much as tofu143) I always negotiate the price down and pay the taxes. It may sound dumb but having to deal with shit after is just too troublesome for a few hundred bucks.

68style 01-29-2019 07:22 AM

They don't do the average value, they do the gold book (re: the HIGH one of course because it's in their favour) value for that car for a private sale.

If you are more than 10% under that number, the autoplan agent is prompted to question why and check off "under value" on the transfer form and write in a reason or reasons which is where the trollface's amongst us have the opportunity to say that a rod is knocking, etc.

Yes you can be audited, I know someone who's wife has a job at ICBC almost exclusively doing this. They can go so far as to request banking records and see what money you actually transferred to the seller, etc. That said, I think they only do it in cases where it appears severe... ie: you bought a $40,000 vehicle and claimed it was $5,000.

Also, as mentioned on this site numerous times, charging tax on used cars is a fucking crock of shit.

That's all :)

trollface 01-29-2019 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68style (Post 8937759)
They don't do the average value, they do the gold book (re: the HIGH one of course because it's in their favour) value for that car for a private sale.

If you are more than 10% under that number, the autoplan agent is prompted to question why and check off "under value" on the transfer form and write in a reason or reasons which is where the trollface's amongst us have the opportunity to say that a rod is knocking, etc.

Yes you can be audited, I know someone who's wife has a job at ICBC almost exclusively doing this. They can go so far as to request banking records and see what money you actually transferred to the seller, etc. That said, I think they only do it in cases where it appears severe... ie: you bought a $40,000 vehicle and claimed it was $5,000.

Also, as mentioned on this site numerous times, charging tax on used cars is a fucking crock of shit.

That's all :)


How does that work? Miatas go from 1500 to 7k lol. 10% is pretty easy to trigger.

white rocket 01-29-2019 07:35 AM

I suspect that ICBC would be not only be looking for under declared value but moreso multiple car flips. I think that would trigger an audit more than a one-off transaction. Having said that, it is very important that you make sure any buyer of your car transfers the vehicle into their name and you get a sellers copy. Curbers/flippers are known for bridging registrations to avoid getting noticed by ICBC.

68style 01-29-2019 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollface (Post 8937760)
How does that work? Miatas go from 1500 to 7k lol. 10% is pretty easy to trigger.

You're thinking too much about random sale prices. I would imagine the gold book private sale value for a 1990 Miata is very, very low... so your $1,500 example might not even trigger it... and even if it does, who cares? It's so easily explained away -- ripped convertible top, engine needs work, needs clutch... it's so little money difference? ICBC does not care if you buy the car for more than book value.

Older cars are not really recognized much, the benefit there being that the person who does buy the $7,000 one and knows the book value can potentially avoid quite a bit of tax by just writing that as the sale price with zero suspicion.

Hondaracer 01-29-2019 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollface (Post 8937760)
How does that work? Miatas go from 1500 to 7k lol. 10% is pretty easy to trigger.

cause no one cares about a sub 10k miata.

Gh0st 01-29-2019 09:14 AM

I posted this a while back in another thread...

I bought my SUV from a stock broker at his vacation home in the hills of the okanagan. He wanted more garage space and wanted to get rid of his 5 year old Infiniti FX.

Dude was rich af. Huge house in a gated community, Range, Audis, Toys he had it all. He took 10k cash for the vehicle - didn't even count the money. We went to superstore and got questioned by the broker for a LONG time about why the vehicle was heavily undervalued. We didn't have any explanation other than the seller saying that's all he wanted and didn't care about the vehicle.

Fast forward a few months I get slapped with a 1500 dollar tax bill and a telephone call from big brother. I was forced to pay the 1500 unless I could prove something was wrong with the vehicle. I just paid the 1500.

I drove the vehicle for 6 years before selling it for 10k. I did lose 1500 on the vehicle from that tax bill.


------------------------------------------------------


When I saw that posting I got in my car from Vancouver and drove 160kms/hour all the way with my mother sitting shotgun cause we needed someone to drive the family car back.

Props to my mom she hadn't driven long stretches in a while.

Every hour I'd text him to make sure the car was still there. I remember having so much anxiety that my mom and I would get there and the car was sold.

It was a steal of a deal. The car was was sitting and collecting dust! It had a clean title too. After spending money on new tires, maintenance, detail package - big brother called wanting his 1500. I spoke to the case manager letting him know he should verify with the seller and no I was not aware of any appeal process. I was 18 years old at the time and just spent all of my money on my car. I'll never forget how stressful that 1500 dollar bill was. fuck.

TouringTeg 01-29-2019 10:01 AM

I remember once or twice having to fill out a separate form if the car was X amount below market value. Both buyer and seller had to sign it. Does this form still have to be filled out?

Good to know you can be audited. All these years and I have never spoken to anyone who has been audited. I assume they go after the biggest returns.

I've posted this before but in WA state the agent determines the amount (based on black book etc) you pay tax on regardless of what you actually paid or tell them you paid. Then it is up to you to appeal

Dbone 01-29-2019 10:29 AM

When I sold my E36 M3, the helpful broker said... woh, you're selling this for WAY over our standard price.

Apparently they just have an E36 price.. not an E36 M3 price.

underscore 01-29-2019 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollface (Post 8937750)
Srs question. How do they "audit" this.

ICBC has no idea if the interior of the car is stripped out, with a rod knock, nothing works and a dog took dumps in the trunk all summer. Not all 2010 civics are the same, some are complete piles of shit and not worth jack.

AVG selling price is exactly that, avg. There is half below the line and half above.

At least some of that stuff can be proven. With my Jeep I got it for cheap because the owner thought it had a much more severe issue than it did, which I was able to fix by changing the fluids. With no physical evidence it's not really possible for me to show why I got it for the price I did. Luckily the other engine options are shit so what I paid landed as a pretty average price for that model as a whole.

Gerbs 01-29-2019 10:47 AM

I know of someone who got audited for a $1,000 car. Got re-valuated to $5,000. The dispute required you to provide proof otherwise face a 2nd penalty if the proof was insufficient. At that point they ended up paying the $480.

TouringTeg 01-29-2019 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dbone (Post 8937783)
When I sold my E36 M3, the helpful broker said... woh, you're selling this for WAY over our standard price.

Apparently they just have an E36 price.. not an E36 M3 price.

Same with Integra. One Integra value for all trims.

Energy 01-29-2019 10:51 AM

Same for used Porsche sports cars (911, Cayman, Boxster). They retain good value secondhand which is not reflected in the value that ICBC has. When I bought my car the agent said the amount I paid was over ICBC value even if I got a really good deal already from the seller.

Badhobz 01-29-2019 10:52 AM

This is so bullshit how they can collect multiple taxes on the same vehicle. I don't even know how they can justify it. This is some scuzzy ass third world dictator style shit.

trollface 01-29-2019 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energy (Post 8937788)
Same for used Porsche sports cars (911, Cayman, Boxster). They retain good value secondhand which is not reflected in the value that ICBC has. When I bought my car the agent said the amount I paid was over ICBC value even if I got a really good deal already from the seller.

You should ask ICBC for a tax credit.

DaJo 01-29-2019 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badhobz (Post 8937790)
This is so bullshit how they can collect multiple taxes on the same vehicle. I don't even know how they can justify it. This is some scuzzy ass third world dictator style shit.

I'm surprised they're not raiding those garage sales for taxes... VPD needs to take some men off that VI squad and focus on something that generates more revenue for the government... XD

The Producer 01-29-2019 01:13 PM

when I buy/sell my declared values always match the amount of the bank draft. Had to send in the carbon once for proof. Case closed.

Jonydakiller 01-29-2019 01:29 PM

Got audited once for a motorcycle i purchased through private sale.
The book they use for value reference is ridiculous. The bike was 4 years old when I purchased it, and somehow ICBC valued the bike at MSRP of a brand new bike and wanted me to pay taxes based off the MSRP.
I showed them the manufacturer's website and telling them the bike was 4 years old at the time with depreciation etc.
The lady in Victoria basically reply saying that was given by the system and please pay up.
I told her to f off basically for having no common sense at all.
I had the option to get the 3rd party involve if you think you have a case so I did, didn't end up paying anything extra

will068 01-29-2019 03:48 PM

Just want to comment how it pisses me off when these double taxation scenarios occur. E.g. Payroll tax, used vehicles tax.

/end rant.

tiger_handheld 01-29-2019 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will068 (Post 8937822)
Just want to comment how it pisses me off when these double taxation scenarios occur. E.g. Payroll tax, used vehicles tax.

/end rant.

please explain how payroll tax is double taxation?

I thought people be more worried about gst on carbon tax :badpokerface:

Yodamaster 01-29-2019 06:27 PM

Have I been living under a rock or something? I don't remember ICBC giving a fuck what you sold your car for, or having any authority to tell you to pay taxes on money that didn't change hands. The request for tax money because they say so is absolutely ridiculous and does not belong in our society, let alone a dictatorship in the desert somewhere. There has to be a violation of your rights there somewhere, because as far as I'm concerned I have the right to (actually) sell a McLaren to my buddy for ten bucks and a case of beer if I want to, what the fuck is this shit.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net