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I posted a little while ago as I was looking to purchase a manual car to complement my then daily driver 2012 Honda Civic. Well, fast forward and I jumped in with both feet and traded in the Civic for a beautiful 2015 Scion FR-S!
I've been driving it for about a month now and have been learning manual for the same period of time. At the moment I'm rarely stalling but I feel that I'm driving far too rough. I feel like I'm revving far too much generally between gear changes. My downshifts are spotty (I try to rev match). I have particular difficulty getting off to a smooth start and shifting up to second (shifting beyond second is relatively smooth).
Does anyone have any advice on how to improve further? Or better yet, would someone be interested in teaching? I live in North Delta. I've gone to empty roads/parking lots and practiced finding the bite point to no avail. I'm still far too rough.
Just muscle memory... rough = you're thinking about it and trying to feel it... eventually your foot will remember where it is.
Just go sit somewhere flat and keep letting the clutch out in first gear with no gas to the point where it engage and then dis-engage it... then engage it again... dis-engage again... keep doing that over and over again and you'll memorize pretty soon where that point is. You shouldn't be revving at all between upchanges... and don't bother learning to rev-match on downshifts if you haven't figure the rest out. Either don't downshift and clutch + brakes... or slow down a bit first and then downshift but don't rev-match... slowly ease into the engagement point and let it go slowly and smoothly into the lower gear which again reinforces to your foot where that point is.
The 1-2 shift on the frs' are notoriously notchy and clunky. You might notice there's rev hang on these cars as well. You'll eventually get accustomed to it and get smooth shifts.
and driving school teaches you how to operate by-the-books safety, not how to operate smoothly/minimize wear
OP this is just something that'll come with time...i think seating position is equally important (your leg shouldn't have to hyper-extend when fully clutched in), wear solid shoes, fulcrum/pivot on the ball of your foot for refined clutch work
if you're practicing in the parking lot especially working on inclines, dont forget to take breaks...the clutch heats up pretty easily
Last edited by twitchyzero; 08-02-2019 at 11:57 PM.
I've done that already and there's actually very few (two I found). One of which has their car in for servicing for a while and will be phasing it out. The other only teaches in Vancouver city.
and driving school teaches you how to operate by-the-books safety, not how to operate smoothly/minimize wear
OP this is just something that'll come with time...i think seating position is equally important (your leg shouldn't have to hyper-extend when fully clutched in), wear solid shoes, fulcrum/pivot on the ball of your foot for refined clutch work
if you're practicing in the parking lot especially working on inclines, dont forget to take breaks...the clutch heats up pretty easily
Thanks for the helpful reply! You're resting the ball of your foot on the floor? At the moment I'm lifting the entire foot for clutch work. Maybe I'll switch it up.
The 1-2 shift on the frs' are notoriously notchy and clunky. You might notice there's rev hang on these cars as well. You'll eventually get accustomed to it and get smooth shifts.
Never looked out for rev hang as I didn't know what it is. But yeah the first two gears are giving me grief.
Just muscle memory... rough = you're thinking about it and trying to feel it... eventually your foot will remember where it is.
Just go sit somewhere flat and keep letting the clutch out in first gear with no gas to the point where it engage and then dis-engage it... then engage it again... dis-engage again... keep doing that over and over again and you'll memorize pretty soon where that point is. You shouldn't be revving at all between upchanges... and don't bother learning to rev-match on downshifts if you haven't figure the rest out. Either don't downshift and clutch + brakes... or slow down a bit first and then downshift but don't rev-match... slowly ease into the engagement point and let it go slowly and smoothly into the lower gear which again reinforces to your foot where that point is.
Yeah that's probably what it is, I haven't memorized the bite point. I've tried the clutch engagement trick a few times with little success. I'm not revving (at least on purpose) between upshifts, just when I near the bite point. I'm not sure I can really avoid downshifting. When I tried without rev matching, I found the car jerking roughly whereas with rev matching it was smoothing out the ride significantly. I'll try your method for a bit. Thanks!
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Make the effort and take the risk..
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I also have a 2015 FR-S, can tell you from experience after driving multiple cars that the FRS has a "springy" clutch pedal in comparison. Can take that feeling out by removing the spring but I think that's far too complicated for now when you're just trying to learn.
I've taught the same method 68style has, practice engaging/disengaging the clutch in an empty space without ever using the gas pedal. That's how I learned how to find the bite point and get used to it when driving different cars. Everyone's learning curve is different so don't be discouraged if it feels like you're not gonna get the hang of it any time soon.
I also have a 2015 FR-S, can tell you from experience after driving multiple cars that the FRS has a "springy" clutch pedal in comparison. Can take that feeling out by removing the spring but I think that's far too complicated for now when you're just trying to learn.
I've taught the same method 68style has, practice engaging/disengaging the clutch in an empty space without ever using the gas pedal. That's how I learned how to find the bite point and get used to it when driving different cars. Everyone's learning curve is different so don't be discouraged if it feels like you're not gonna get the hang of it any time soon.
Cheers! Just got back from practicing with SSM_DC5 and we went over the clutch engagement a good bit.
I also have a 2015 FR-S, can tell you from experience after driving multiple cars that the FRS has a "springy" clutch pedal in comparison. Can take that feeling out by removing the spring but I think that's far too complicated for now when you're just trying to learn.
I've taught the same method 68style has, practice engaging/disengaging the clutch in an empty space without ever using the gas pedal. That's how I learned how to find the bite point and get used to it when driving different cars. Everyone's learning curve is different so don't be discouraged if it feels like you're not gonna get the hang of it any time soon.
What did they even put that spring in there for?
His definition of rough isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was (and probably what you guys/girls think too). I've seen far worse with people who have more experience than him. He's at the point of fine tuning to make things smooth. With some more practice with gas control, I think he will be where he wants to be. I feel that his clutch control is perfectly fine for daily.
Keep up the good work, with your motivation to learn manual, it won't be long until you start seeing why car enthusiasts like manual transmissions over auto.
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His definition of rough isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was (and probably what you guys/girls think too). I've seen far worse with people who have more experience than him. He's at the point of fine tuning to make things smooth. With some more practice with gas control, I think he will be where he wants to be. I feel that his clutch control is perfectly fine for daily.
Keep up the good work, with your motivation to learn manual, it won't be long until you start seeing why car enthusiasts like manual transmissions over auto.
Cheers man! Drove a bunch today after meeting you, getting better at downshifting but still a long ways to go. Starts are smoothing out more and more. Appreciate all the help
The thing I noticed is you said your reving too high when shifting up. You shouldn’t be revving when changing gears.
Yeah that was me phrasing it incorrectly. It's just when I try to give it gas at the bite point and accelerate, sometimes I'm going too early and it ends up revving.
sorry to threadjack, have questions pertinent to finessing 3rd pedal
1. when do you actually blip throttle on downshift assuming car has no rev hang? as youre shifting? as youre releasing clutch? after shifting but before clutch release? i know it's kinda all one motion once you get good at it but youtube videos dont break it down well for someone learning
2. riding the clutch reversing is still bad or nbd since it's at low speeds? if i release clutch fully my car moves too quickly
3. spirited driving; i dont wanna just dump the clutch, but is releasing clutch slowly 3rd gear and lower is still bad?
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