CoV Spends $317k on Office Furniture

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The difference is, those bodies you are talking about are provincially and federally regulated.

And? The city and provincial government work hand and hand with one another.

Don't you work for Telus?

Did you have any issues with the COV awarding a lucrative contract to complete their new IP telephony system and contact centre suite to the very company you work for, back in 2008?

I guarantee you Telus wasn't the the lowest bidder in the RFP. You should also know how inflated companies such as Telus bloat their contracts with city and provincial governments.

I don't see you quitting your company or complaining in outrage. This story is simply salacious, like I said, there are much bigger fish to fry if we're talking about corruption in this city and province.

[Obsideon]

I've brought food delivery from our restaurants to City Hall numerous times (apparently Kennedy loves our sushi?) and I was actually surprised how run down and old condition their pantry room and waiting area furniture is. Most of the chairs and tables actually look like they were from IKEA.
... $16

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

And? The city and provincial government work hand and hand with one another.

Don't you work for Telus?

Did you have any issues with the COV awarding a lucrative contract to complete their new IP telephony system and contact centre suite to the very company you work for, back in 2008?

I guarantee you Telus wasn't the the lowest bidder in the RFP. You should also know how inflated companies such as Telus bloat their contracts with city and provincial governments.

I don't see you quitting your company or complaining in outrage. This story is simply salacious, like I said, there are much bigger fish to fry if we're talking about corruption in this city and province.

If they aren’t the lowest bidder but are known for quality and are employing local people to do the work there are obviously trade offs in these types of situations.

Working for a company the only thing I’m paying them are my telecom bills. They manage that and that alone. I don’t pay them $5000+ a year plus all the residual costs to have shitty, contracted garbage and recycling services and homeless overflowing out of city parks, and all the services that have virtually fallen off a cliff under Stewart so people can sit in $2000 chairs.

I completely agree, this is small fries and it’s much ado about nothing. But stories like this hopefully wake up the tax payers of the city to pay a bit closer attention to the issues that actually DO matter and the tax dollars that DO have an impact on living in CoV.

As for the selling the used chairs, I’ve got a handful of stories from both the city works yard, as well as the VSB that shows very clearly how well they are equipped to sell off city assets.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I completely agree, this is small fries and it’s much ado about nothing. But stories like this hopefully wake up the tax payers of the city to pay a bit closer attention to the issues that actually DO matter and the tax dollars that DO have an impact on living in CoV.

I can respect that position.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by quasi

Bad optics and bad timing, of course you can cancel your order.

So many construction projects, even ones that had the green light were cancelled or put on hold due to covid. I mean most of those were private companies so they actually have to use logic and a little bit of business awareness in their decision making.

If I was a Vancouver tax payer I would not have a problem with them spending money on furniture or the amount they spent but use a little common sense when you're crying you have no money don't be spending money on shit that you really can live without for a while until things are a little more normal.

Had a fight with my mom over this... cause i actually sold to municipality, so i had get her to understand what goes thru in the process.

Yes you CAN cancel the order, but risk paying an arm and a leg due to cancellation of a project. The jobs lost, storage feels, the shipping and the company that has to take it all back.

I can tell you it's BS. Now the company who WON the Request For Proposal has to fooking go on a legal battle to fight cause he's stuck with 300k of furniture in a storage facility which he doesn't have.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

'well order went in well before the pandemic' is a cop out

For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by 6793026

]
For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

I can't say for the CoV, but what I can say is that there are countless other government agencies which definitely do not do anything resembling this method. From BCHydro all the way to the city of BBY (and i know you are talking about the city of bby, and I believe they have gotten better recently after having their own problems ages ago), and upwards to some of the federal operations. They receive a budget, and have no mandate for 3 bids to a buy, or anything like that for many operational expenses. It depends on the source of the funds and the earmark on them. Approval also depends on the size of the contract, approval for something that's 10k vs 100k is usually different, as it should be.

Also if this is the case, then CoV should release the information. I remember the days that government tenders were open tenders, anyone could bid, and they would open the bid letters live and award contracts.

Not saying we need to go back to that, but public tenders should be mandated (even if they are closed). The information should be public, so that the real population funding the shit can see, this would cut corruption on construction, infrastructure and other projects heavily.

In fact this isnt even a government problem, this problem exists in strata councils as well. My strata council hired a plumbing contractor who is related with someone on the council, that's fucking bullshit to me, and it's some bullshit under the table company i've never heard of, and has done all sorts of questionable stuff.

Again my stance is very simillar to hondaracer, do I care necessarily about this one ridiculous bill? no. But what I do care is how these types of expenses continue to happen, just like those officials in victoria that got caught expensing stupid shit. We have a systemic problem with how elected officials are spending our money, and the process is not as transparent as it used to be, nor is it as transparent as it needs to be.

Originally Posted by Ch28

Apprently Vancouver's "mayor" threw his own staff under the bus and said that they need to have an audit of the expenses.

Kennedy is a piece of shit, no surprise there.

[twitchyzero]

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

but starting the dialogue = throwing your staff under the bus apparently

[meme405]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

but starting the dialogue = throwing your staff under the bus apparently

The original article I posted also states the order was placed after covid hit:

Global News has confirmed that furniture was being ordered as late as May, 2020 — a month after Vancouver Mayor Stewart warned the city was facing a financial crisis, and pleaded for a bailout from senior levels of government.

And yet people keep saying "the order was probably placed long before covid, or they've had this planned forever.

No sorry, they haven't. your all just sheep, and hoping that these people are smarter than they are. Hint: they aren't.

As stated in the wolf of wall street:

Mark Hanna : The name of the game, moving the money from the client's pocket to your pocket.

Jordan Belfort : But if you can make your clients money at the same time it's advantageous to everyone, correct?

Mark Hanna : No.

EDIT: just for posterity sake, my office building actually sent an email out stating they have postponed yearly maintenance (which usually happens around now), indefinitely, they wont be power washing the building, they wont be doing any upgrades, etc. Because they aren't making money right now, and they need to play it close to the chest. That's what responsible business are doing. I've heard it from so many commercial building owners, and companies.

[bcrdukes]

Thank you for discrediting everyone who didn't agree with you in this thread.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

I'm sure there are orders daily, because the company who supplied these furniture probably won as a VOD (Vendor of Record), so from office chairs to an eraser... they are ordering thru this one company.


There are some contracts due to specific technical existing hardware eg// Cisco phones, SAP, ORACLE etc... they won't do an RFP for the sack of maintenance contracts. They would take forever, but for purchases that are switching things up from one vendor to another.. a fair RFP process SHOULD be in place.

Wishful thinking of course.

[smoothie.]

300k and some people lose it.

You have nooooooo idea lol.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by meme405

do I care necessarily about this one ridiculous bill? no.

That's certainly not what your first post sounded like.

[AzNightmare]

I used to sit in the office all day in a Herman Miller, then go home and spend another 5-6 hours on my $70 office chair. Never really noticed a difference. I enjoy sitting on both... lol. It's weird, but I guess if my ass and back is happy, then my wallet is too.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by smoothie.

300k and some people lose it.

You have nooooooo idea lol.

Yeah I do, which is why it's disappointing to see people jump to the defense of this kind of spending time after time.

Inevitable when something like 25% of the population is public workers, so they directly benefit from when the government mismanages money to their benefit.

Originally Posted by bobbinka

That's certainly not what your first post sounded like.

I dont live in Vancouver proper, so yeah, idgaf, if people in vancouver think this is good for their money, then props to them, they will have the most ergonomic city workers in the world.

I guess I am just sitting here waiting to see at what point will the tax paying population revolt? Like right now the average canadian pays like 45% of what they earn in a year to taxes. This includes income tax, PST/GST, all the other fees and taxes and stuff you pay throughout the year. We pay this much and yet after all that we have huge debt at all three levels of government, and run a deficit year after year. We all know money isn't free, and at some point we need to probably try and climb back to zero atleast. So the government will continue to up that amount, so at what point does this whole system collapse? Are you all comfortable paying 55 or 60 percent of what you make/spend in a year to the government?

Lets say we all banded together as canadians and said we need to fix this, and agreed to pay 60% taxes to get out of debt. If we made that sacrifice and then the government made the same kind of spending we are seeing today at that time, how would you feel? would you feel it is still justified for them to sit at $1500 chairs?

Therein lies the truth, most economists dont believe we could ever pay back our debt, the general consensus is that at ~52.5% taxation we would tank our economy. Fortunately for us in Canada, the consensus is that this is likely to happen in the US first. Unfortunately for us, it won't make a difference we will all still be crippled by the collapse of money as we know it. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I dont wear a tinfoil hat, I dont believe the world is flat, or that global warming is a hoax. But overwhelming debt bringing the worlds financial system to ruin, is something I could conceivably see happening in my generation.

So I'm not being a keyboard warrior, or an asshat right now when I say: My heart genuinely aches for our future. I dont see a way out of this, and I'm not certain how much longer we will continue to push this problem out.

And that's the most sincere thing I will probably ever write on here, and you can fail it if you want, but I write the above in order to maybe bring some awareness to my own generation, and I welcome actual intelligent conversation on this topic. If people want to move it out of this cluttered up disaster of the thread we can do that.

[winson604]

While the spend doesn't bother me and yes there are definitely times money either appears to be mismanaged there are equal and likely greater instances where it's the opposite. For every department with Herman Miller and fancy sit stands there's a department with furniture still from like the 80's or 90s. Any staff event, that shits coming out of your own pocket, COV branded pen? Some departments get wet just realizing it exists in some areas. These are just very small examples but trust me, while it seems like they throw money around be it warranted or not they are also very stingy. I guess it balances out then?

[radioman]

Since we're on the subject of chairs, this is anecdotal but I purchased my first ever $1200-1500 ergo chair in feb/march and haven't had any back issues since.

I worked over 7 years with a few different chairs my old work would muster the dough for and they caused a lot of discomfort and back pain. I would go to get adjusted/massage every few months but I haven't even thought about needing to do it since I got the new chair.

In conclusion I'd say I've already saved a few hundred in ins plan costs and personal costs.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by 6793026

Had a fight with my mom over this... cause i actually sold to municipality, so i had get her to understand what goes thru in the process.

Yes you CAN cancel the order, but risk paying an arm and a leg due to cancellation of a project. The jobs lost, storage feels, the shipping and the company that has to take it all back.

I can tell you it's BS. Now the company who WON the Request For Proposal has to fooking go on a legal battle to fight cause he's stuck with 300k of furniture in a storage facility which he doesn't have.



For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

I understand the bidding process that is what I do I probably put out 300-400 million in bids a year of as small as 10K and as much as 80m depending on the project. It comes down to the golden rule, them with the gold make the rules.

I feel you on how long shit takes sometimes, RCH Phase 1 that was design build and I started working in partnership with the general contractor back in 2014, we weren't awarded the project until 2017 and finally got out of there earlier this year.

[mikemhg]

I'm less interested in the 300K on the furniture, heck as someone else said, if you knew how much is spent on cleaning supplies and coffee on an annual basis, your head would spin.

What's more interesting is watching Kennedy Stewart throw his council under the bus. I find that hilarious, my god he's such a garbage mayor, literally no leadership or accountability on his end.

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by meme405

your all just sheep

you know the people that spout this cliche are the actual sheep right?

[6793026]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I'm less interested in the 300K on the furniture, heck as someone else said, if you knew how much is spent on cleaning supplies and coffee on an annual basis, your head would spin.

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

[winson604]

Originally Posted by 6793026

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

Where's my money lol. We actually have to buy our own cream and coffee etc. Each department usually has a coffee club and you have to pay for all your own shit, it's one of the lines they draw in the sand saying we can't spend tax payers money on this stuff.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 6793026

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

My dad works for Travelers, one of the worlds biggest insurance companies with a market cap of 29 Billion..they cut water/coffee service for an office of 50 ppl..

Frankly, this attitude that “it’s only 300k” or that “you should see how much money is wasted on X” is pretty disconcerning.. we’re not setting a very high bar for public office.

[AzNightmare]

Do they get free coffee at work?
I have several friends who work for the city and they all mentioned they didn't get coffee so they have to BYO.

One time I had an interview and all 3 interviewers came in with their own cups of coffee from different coffee shops, lol...

[68style]

You don't even get a fuckin Christmas party in public... go to white spot and pay for lunch if you're lucky.

Bonuses? Haha... yah if you're a director maybe.

Such a gravy train, where does it all stop... love all these people who talk from outside of places like they know what's up on the inside because they heard a story once or their uncle's son's friend said so.

[winson604]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

Do they get free coffee at work?
I have several friends who work for the city and they all mentioned they didn't get coffee so they have to BYO.

One time I had an interview and all 3 interviewers came in with their own cups of coffee from different coffee shops, lol...

Again at COV we draw a hard line on this stuff. I have yet to hear of any department who has free coffee just coffee clubs. Some departments even have water clubs!