Hmmmm yeah so we took the kiddo to the dentist yesterday. He's about 17 m/o now.

He wouldn't open his mouth, and when the dentist reached towards him, he kept smacking her hands away.

Then when she relented, he started smacking me in the face with a "how could you let this happen to me" expression.

Then the dentist tried to give him a toothbrush, so he could show her how he brushes his own teeth - a ruse to get him to open his mouth. He threw it to the ground, never breaking his gaze with her. The dentist was all shocked and dismayed. "Oh my goodness. Oh my heavens." If she had any pearls she would've clutched them.

My MIL had booked us this appointment with her regular dentist, insisting they were experienced and great with kids. Sure didn't seem like it. Their idea of being kid-equipped was having a Zootopia DVD on hand.

We're now looking for a pediatric dentist lol.

Oh it's always the MIL, they know everything.

We took our first to the dentist for the first time around 18 months and she was a champ. Full cleaning, flossing, etc, the whole 9 yards. They gave her like 5 toys instead of 1 because she did so well.

Next time we went about a year later, the dentist made the mistake of asking her if she could open her mouth, instead of telling her lol. The moment she realized she had a choice in the matter her hands went up over her mouth and didn't come down until we left the office.

She's 4 now and has no issue with the dentist. I think it's also a matter of conditioning. If you make it a big deal before you go, then they realize something is off, and act out accordingly.

We've been trying really hard to adjust our parenting style to more of a let them figure things out and not help them so they develop the critical thinking and problem solving skills that are useful in life.

My wife had made an observation that my brother and his wife adhere to a more traditional helicopter style parenting. My nephew doesn't problem solve, he calls for help everytime. Or if there's conflict, he stands and waits for his parents to intervene. My wife had privately made comments about our nephew not being able to self think or fend for himself.

Then this article came up yesterday and I feel like it really affirms our thinking, and now I can apply a name to it - Lighthouse Parent
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/a...t-newtab-en-us

My wife works at a daycare, and she said the kids are generally "dumber" these days. As in an alarming proportion of them won't do anything for themselves at daycare, because at home the parents literally do everything for them. Not every kid obviously, but far more than before. She had a 5 year old piss her pants because she was just told "go to the washroom" instead of being helped pulling her pants down, going on the seat, etc. Same thing with eating, some kids (like 3+) will sit there until they're literally spoon-fed.

Also yesterday we were at swimming lessons, and there was this mom who was CONSTANTLY hovering by the pool trying to tell her toddler to do this and that as the instructor was trying to get this kid to focus. Eventually the instructor got fed up and told her quite firmly to leave the area, and she did. But the kid then just cried for the remainder. Like bitch how do you possibly think that's good parenting.

My observation has been, it varies.

Lots of helicopter parents nowadays, especially the Chinese families who are just trotting out the same set of expectations that their parents did. It's fine when the whole system is setup the same way ala in Asia, but here there's a varied set of expectations depending on who you talk to, which school, what type of education, and even area.

Of the helicopter set of kids, they, like you said, lack self regulating abilities and other emotional soft skills, in turn their knowledge and hard skills are stronger as parents push academics beyond all else.


The daycare group that we are with, they have centers across the lower mainland. Some of the teachers/caretakers sub in at other centers as needed and they've remarked the location mean their curriculum varies a lot, and the parent expectations are different.

Surprisingly, despite being a very Cantonese heavy area, the Fraserview/Killarney set of parents don't have as much helicopter tendencies. At least the ones that we meet at daycare and classes at KCC.

I attribute that to the fact that it's still a working class neighborhood, both parents work.

SIL is teaching in the VSB on the west side. There're 6 vacancies at her school for FT positions. Officially, they're moving on for professional reasons. Unofficially, they got fed up with dealing with parents.

This is really interesting to hear - maybe I'm just lucky with our daycare (CEFA) and the programs we send our kid to but I've never seen any of that. The day care kids I encounter are really independent for their ages and I've never seen parents hover during stuff like swim classes.

CEFA really reinforces independence though and most people who send their kids there make good money so very different economic class (sure are a lot of German luxury cars that do drop off after 9am and pickup before 5pm) and different level of parenting too.

I don't have reference points since I haven't raised any other 5 years old but I'm pleasantly surprised at how well my 5 year old can operate the TV and how she gets her own utensils or can put her own clothes on or when we finish eating ice cream she'll collect our bowls and put it on the kitchen counter without asking. The only thing she still won't do on her own is wipe her ass but otherwise she's pretty independent.

Personality also plays a pretty big part on the independence thing. My 5 year old is ok, not as good as supa's, he needs to be challenged for him to make the move to become independent.

Our 21 month old though is very independent, she will go do put things away, try to do everything herself and only ask for help if she really can't do it. She was in the basement with my parents a few weeks back, she knows where the snacks are and would go get it and bring it to my dad and ask for some. After she finished she went to play, but as she walked into the playroom, she doubled back. My dad wonder if anything was wrong, but no she just remembered she forgot to put away the snack, went to grab it and return it to the correct place.

We haven't asked her to do it ever, she just does it.

My kid yesterday while pooping: "Dad, when little kids get bigger their bum holes get bigger."

She's gonna be great when she gets a Twitter account.

So we're a few weeks into packing lunch and snacks with my 5 year old and, goddamn it, she's eating barely half of what I pack most days and as soon as she gets home she tells me she's hungry and basically eats a full meal at 3pm (her afterschool care only started yesterday) which then ruins dinner.

We've only packed her hot food once so far which she did eat so maybe I need to be cooking her more meals to take to school rather than the sandwich, fruit, and snacks mix.

BTW: What are calorie dense foods that you feed your kid that aren't terrible for them? I like cheese but I'm looking for other things to try with her.

Granola bars?

Might need to be fun foods or things that they pick. My son is picking his own lunch from Maxims. It's been rotating between sausage bun, cheese sausage bun, or pork floss bun. The other stuff we make up of cheese or puffs or fruits. He likes the easy stuff like cut up apple and we pack him a little fork in the box. Other stuff he eats is blueberries, or recently he would finish the hami melon.

Haha welcome to reality for what I assume is a lot of kids. My daughter just started K and the first time we have to pack lunches (her day care for 2 years had food provided). She's a fantastic eater both in variety and quantity and so far half eaten even though the full amount is well within her limit of food. They're having fun talking and too distracted to eat sigh. She always claims she ran out of time to eat. :badpokerface:

^ My son says the same thing, "why didn't you finish your food?" "I ran out of time"

Need some input on this one:

We've got the 17 m/o at home, and a 2nd baby coming in a couple weeks. My MIL was originally going to stick around and help us out for at least a few more months, but last week - unexpectedly - decided she is going to take off when the baby arrives.

Our experience with the first baby for the first few months when we didn't have help, was that we could barely keep it together. And so, we scrambled to find a daycare that would take the older one. By crazy miracle, one of the nearby ones we like just got back to us, and we have until Wednesday to decide to enroll.

We were initially thinking we'd immediately get the 17 m/o in there even if the MIL is still here, so that hopefully the worst of the illnesses will be out of the way before the newborn arrives.

But now we're kind of rethinking this: if the next few weeks aren't enough for the older kid to get all the illnesses out of the way, we're going to be really screwing over the newborn and ourselves: dealing with two sick babies is going to be way worse than if we hadn't put the older one in daycare at all.

Is that the right thinking? Anyone have thoughts, opinions?

First off, 2 under 2, you guys are brave.

Has your 17 month old been sick before? I'm talking about heavy sicknesses like RSV, metapnuemo, covid, etc. as the first time he ever gets those, he's going to be in for a wild ride. Regardless if the older one has been sick before, I would suggest just sucking it up and dealing with both kids at home and get groceries and food delivered for the first few weeks. It'll help with having to do less and also minimize exposure.

Our son brought RSV home from daycare when my daughter was just born. Since he's had it before he didn't have it too bad but he gave it to my daughter. She was admitted to Children's for 4 days at under 1 month old, needed a feeding tube and breathing assistance. It was stressful as hell.

Flu season started already (not that it really ended this year, ppl kept getting sick throughout summer it seems). Our whole family is sick right now and have been for the last week. You do not want a sick newborn. My daughter would not have survived without the hospital. No wonder infant mortality rates were so high 100 years back.

I have no obvious medical knowledge beyond what a typical parent have seen and experienced first hand, but aren't newborns supposed to have some degree of maternal antibodies protecting them from getting sick in the first 6 months or so? Of course, I am not naive enough to think that degree of protection can help a newborn fend off everything a typical respiratory illness season will throw at them, but I wouldn't be excessively worried about the newborn getting sick until/unless you really start to see the little person getting sick (like EvoFire's daughter has).

If I were to find myself in a similar situation as RabidRat is, I would bite the bullet and keep both kids at home while while both me and my wife go on parental leave until spring or something. But we would only do that bcos our work situation allows for that to happen. IMO, the chances of having your kids get sick would be smaller if you keep the your 17 m/o at home instead of sending him to daycare. And then you just ride out the first month or so while getting takeouts / food delivery etc. Even doing the occassional grocery run yourself would be a good thing, since it'd allow you to catch a breather.

I would 100% set up an air purifier in where the children spend time (at home) as well.

Good luck!

This is great feedback, thanks guys.

Yeah I think it's the right thing to do to just power through at home.

The kid hasn't been seriously sick yet: just two instances of having a fever, and once puking through the night for a couple nights. He did get COVID, RSV, and flu vaccinations last Fall back before we left California, but that's a really long time ago. We haven't been able to figure out how to get him boosters here yet. Though it sounds from EvoFire like it wouldn't really help the newborn anyway.

edit: also good call to lean in on conveniences like food/grocery delivery. Feels spendy but at the same time we would've spent way more on daycare lol.

Flying HK today, estimated flight time 14h 35m. Wish me luck.

How was it? Anyone kill anyone?

I dont think he'll be alive for a while to reply FeelsBadMan

side note, if you're kiddo is 4 this year, you're likely going to sign them up for Elementary in your district. Registration is likely open on your district's website.

?

I thought registration opens in February of the year your kid turns 5?

Or is that specific to Burnaby?

In Vancouver, registration starts today through Jan 31. After that it's late registration and you might not get a spot at your catchment school. Even if you register early though, if there's more kids than spots, it's still a lottery system.
You register them when they're still 4. They start K in the year they turn 5.

If you don't win the lottery, does that mean your kid has to go to another school? Or do they not get to go to school at all? :lol

Yeah, another school.