(LONG) Does anybody have any experience arguing with their strata/building mgmt co?
 

The way my building is run is I have to bring it to the property management co and then they bring it to strata's attention...small building, 3 volunteer strata council I can't just talk to them directly.

Sorry if this is long winded. if I am being unreasonable, please let me know.

Anyway...

Live in a small wood frame walkup. Building is just over 10. Since I am on the top floor and like to be proactive, I immediately replaced the washer/dryer and dishwasher with new units, new steel braided hoses etc. upon moving in, including a D/W that's supposed to have some flood protection system that prevents a D/W failure from flooding your floor. I don't want to cause damage to my own suite or my neighbours or the building so I spent a lot for peace of mind.

A few months after moving in, since it says in the strata rules that I am supposed to have my gas fireplace serviced 1x per year, I hired a guy from a FP service co (Fortis certified blah blah) to service my gas FP. He brings to my attention a twist in my copper gas pipe that pinches the pipe where it twists. Tells me it is not leaking but it is weak right there and if it breaks, it could leak and it's before my shutoff so I can't shut anything off if it does break. He tells me his recommendation is to have that portion of the pipe flared/replaced.

This obviously concerns me as it's a safety issue with my pipe and impacts the building, so I bring this to my property management co's attention. This was early October 2020. I don't hear back so after a few days I respond again via e-mail and she replies that she has forwarded my concern to strata council. No response.

A couple of weeks ago I notice my downstairs bathroom (loft, there's another one upstairs) has a big brown spot on the ceiling. So I e-mail the property manager and tell her it could be leaking above my ceiling and I'd like them to do something about it. I then remind her that nobody has done anything about my gas pipe yet.

She (property manager) calls me back. About the gas pipe, she says she doesn't know who I got to service my FP but she doesn't know them and they get their own company to service them every 2 years. In my strata rules it says I am supposed to service it every year on my own, so I went by that. She said, "well I don't think it's an issue, you know copper...I'm not a plumber...but we'll bring it up at the strata meeting in February and have it serviced soon." Great.

And then about the leak, says she could have a plumber sent out to investigate, but she thinks this leak is probably from my own plumbing and therefor my fault so if she hires a plumber and it's my fault, I will have to pay a lot of money. I tell her I don't think it is from my suite, but if it is, I'll pay the plumber myself. Then she says she's pretty sure it's my fault so I should just hire my own plumber but in the off chance it's the building's fault, I will be reimbursed for the cost. We were getting nowhere so I agreed to hire my own plumber.

So I hire my own plumber, he comes, cuts a hole in the ceiling, there's a big rusty pipe up there and it's wet on the outside. We go up to the roof and he investigates and writes a report that it is not from my suite's plumbing, it's a building issue. I forward this invoice and all the photos to her via e-mail.

She responds immediately with "I'll forward this to strata council."

I reply, asking her to inform me when I will be reimbursed for my plumbing bill, and when this will be fixed, as i have a big hole in my ceiling now, and I can see a wet pipe. No response.

So now I am pretty annoyed. I am a first time home owner here, but I paid a lot of money and I am being as proactive about building safety issues as possible, hiring qualified and certified people to do anything plumbing or gas related and replacing old appliances that could leak and fail with newer, better units.

My colleague suggests I call every day and harass them. I feel like that could piss them off and since I live in a small building I don't want to have an adversarial relationship with my neighbours/strata/management. But still.

Thoughts?

Document everything and get -everything- in writing

Even if you have a verbal phone call, email the person you called immediately and basically document what was said on the call in that email and that you are expecting a response etc.

That’s somewhat concerning that pipes are leaking in a 10 year old build...

Seems odd you can't just bring things up to Strata directly??

Perhaps time to consider having a lawyer on retainer?

I feel your pain. How many units are in your strata? If there are only a few units, try to reach out to the owners and gather at least 20% of the total units to sign a letter to hold a special general meeting or at the annual general meeting to resolve the building issue. The property manager will have to legally work with the strata council to host the discussion within 4 weeks. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/h...eneral-meeting

For your case, I would warn the neighbours that if this issue is not addressed asap, the leak will also affect their units. That should trigger them to also join the SGM request.

A strata property manager is honestly just a clerk who takes minutes for strata meetings, make sure bylaws are followed, dispatches the cleaning and maintenance crews and watches over the strata's funds. Any structure and money requests will require the strata council to approve. The issue is, most strata councils I've been in are held by people who give zero fu*ks about issues from other units but will be super proactive on issues that affect them.

When the PM says they've forwarded your email to the strata council, they probably read it and went.

In short:

-Document everything with photos. Have the inspector write a brief statement of what is happening and what needs to be address
-Reach out to owners via mail or in-person on the issue and why it may concern them (e.g. leak may spread, health/safety hazard, the issue might be similar for other units, etc...)
-gather signatures and requests from 20% of strata owners and then submit a request to your PM to have this item be added in the next AGM or be held in an SGM.
-If it is an SGM, then the PM has to work with the strata council to host it 4 weeks after the request is made.
-If the council is silent and does not offer the SGM, then the strata members who signed up in support of this resolution can host their SGM with the PM as a witness.

He can, but they won't do anything until the AGM (which is usually held in February).

Also, don't listen to the PM, she's not a certified contractor or plumber, so would she know the issue? Sounds like she's another lazy PM who doesn't want to be involved in your issue.

I hate the way my building was so I just joined the council myself to make sure shit gets done. Bunch of miserable old fucks who refuse to spend a penny.

Could try this:
Call them out on it. Explain it again and see what they have to say when they give you a written reply. Telling them that you'll be sending their written reply which you expect within 7 days as well with your photos to a lawyer and it may be the kick in the ass they need to step in and and take care of the problem.

^a hearing will require 20% support from the strata.

Since is close to AGM for most buildings, the OPs best bet will be to pressure the council to bring this issue as an item for discussion and resolution.

I thought so too. This is my first building. Strata council is only 3 people of our building of 25 units, one of which is mine, so 24 other units. I honestly don't know how to contact strata directly without going through the PM co. At our AGM she said to bring issues up with her and she'd send them to strata.

I've always been a renter so I don't know how common this is.

This looks like a drainage pipe. And it doesn't look good. This is what it looks like in my bathroom right now. https://i.imgur.com/pNdYUNU.jpg

Where the "hanger" or whatever that thing is called is, it's wet to the touch. And it's rusted. You can see the ceiling is getting stained brown too. This is likely from the drainage on the roof, per the plumber.

I think the 20% is for a special general meeting. This would be for a a strata council hearing. Whenever I've been involved with them it was a done deal, they request and we were told it's mandatory.

It could be me misunderstanding or my management company just shitty and not knowing like they should lol

The thing is, I don't even know how to get in touch with the strata council that makes up my building, nor do I even see my neighbours, let alone have contact with them. I'm all in the dark here about the process. We were told at the AGM in October that questions for strata had to be forwarded to the PM company and then they'd go to strata.

I was given my president's # when I moved in for some things like getting the elevator key for moving, etc.. But the president of the strata is hard as fuck to get in touch with and when I follow up she just says, "Oh I didn't get your text" or "your e-mail must have gone to my spam filter" so I have given up on little things like getting my name added to the buzzer. She's been there to give me a key for the elevator or for a room for Telus or something but that's pretty much all I've had contact with her for and TBH I am not sure when I contact her or the PM co.

Don't deal directly with the strata council because it sounds like none of them care about their neighbours issues.

If your AGM is in October, then I suggest going with the SGM route and have Council decide on your request in 4 weeks.

I love condos

If you have this issue, i'm sure your neighbours might as well. Ask them to take a look in their units. When the voices get louder, that's when shit gets done.

Many property managers are garbage and it sounds like yours isn't the best. Also, it's your PM's job to act as the primary contact for residents and a gatekeeper for the Council. Trying to contact your Council directly isn't necessarily going to get you any further, especially if your Council is one of the more 'passive' ones who relies on the PM and just follows whatever he/she says (which is what's supposed to happen in theory, as long as the PM is competent). If you try to go around the PM, the Council will likely just deflect you. Remember, Council is just a group of random volunteers who don't get paid, and some care more than others.

If you want action, the best way is to learn the Strata Property Act and then cite the appropriate sections to your PM that apply to you. If the Council fails to follow the SPA, you can take them to the CRT for resolution. Usually the threat of CRT will get a Council moving if they aren't listening.

As for your specific issue, here's what the SPA says:



So based on that:

If the copper pipe to your fireplace is within the boundaries of your strata lot, and it services just your fireplace and not other fireplaces, then it's your responsibility to repair or maintain it. If the pipe feeds other fireplaces too, then it's the Strata's responsibility to repair or maintain it. If the pipe is outside the boundaries of your strata lot, then it's your Strata's responsibility.

If that leaking drain pipe is a common pipe, then Strata is responsible for repairing it. The damage to your ceiling however is something you'd have to fix yourself, even if the damage was caused by the common pipe, because any damage inside your strata lot, no matter how it was caused, is your responsibility to deal with (in most cases).

If that drain pipe is within the boundaries of your strata lot (i.e say it's located in your ceiling between your lower floor and upper floor) then it's your responsibility to fix, unless it happens to be a pipe that also services other units too.

If your Council is ignoring you, you can do what someone else said earlier and request a hearing. Per the SPA, they have 4 weeks to give you that chance to speak to them in person. Keep in mind with hearings, they don't have to respond to you at the hearing. You show up and you can speak what's on your mind and make your request. They might ask you some questions. Then you leave and they will respond to you in writing at a later time. Personally, our Council doesn't operate like that, we're pretty friendly to people who show up to our meetings, but your Council isn't obligated to.

Don't bother trying to arrange an SGM. The chances of getting enough units to sign just to deal with your situation are small. SGM's cost the Strata a lot of money and time to hold, and it's especially hard right now with Covid. An SGM is meant for situations that impact many owners, not just problems with one unit. If you try for an SGM, I think it will backfire against you as you'll look like an unreasonable owner making a bigger deal of something than it is.

Hope that helps.

Sorry to hear about your trouble, mr00jimbo. While I don't have any short term solutions or recommendations about your current building problems, I do have 2 long term recommendations that I can make:

1) If you plan on staying there at your unit for at least a few years, join the strata council. Esp with a smaller building like that, you'll bring a lot more say and action into the whole building. I wouldn't say pro-active maintenance of a building would help increase the building or the properties' values. But what I will say is, a poorly maintained building will almost certainly cause the building and the units' value to drop. Becoming a strata council member will take up some of your time. And if the building's build quality is crap, potentially it could eat up a lot of your time. But at least if you're in the council, you'd know that stuff are at least done "properly" -- or in other words, up to your own standard.

2) The other suggestion is, as soon as your ceiling / leaky pipe issue is taken care of -- prepare to sell. It may sound like a dick move, but that is also a realistic way to minimize and cut your losses, so to speak. I can't stress enough how important a good strata council is at any type of strata lots. And if yours is not particularly keen on staying on top of issues, and you are not in a position to take that responsibility, getting out is a viable solution to cut your losses.

Going forward, take this ownership and strata council experience with you as something to learn from. Personally, I'd say that unless someone is willing to take on the strata council responsibilities, it is best to avoid this type of smaller apartment buildings. A friend of mine used to own a unit at this type of place too -- I think her building only had something like 15 - 20 units. 4 or 5 of the units were owned by an investor/owner, and even though he wasn't on strata council, his out-sized vote count at the AGM pretty much became the deciding factor on any number of maintenance / spending decision.

Something like this should not have to wait for an AGM. Your strata council should be holding monthly meetings to discuss issues/topics regarding the building and these meeting minutes should be sent to all owners. You've listed a TON of red flags and you need to GTFO. IMO, the strata council is ultimately in charge of protecting everyone's investment in the building. If they're impossible to get ahold of it's likely a guarantee that they are doing a really shitty job maintaining the building and making sure that everyone's investment is being taken care of. Honestly, in such a small building with such a small council, don't waste your time trying to join. It's likely the other 2 council members are just as bad as the president. And rest assured, if something is wrong with the building, all 3 are going to pre-emptively sell before anyone else knows what's going on.
Issues will likely start to creep up in a 10-year-old building. Even if you + other residents overthrow the strata council, who knows how long the building has been neglected and what else needs to be addressed. You could be spending the next few years and thousands of dollars cleaning up the shit the previous council left behind.

all you have to do is

ask property manager what date next council meeting is and say you want to attend for 15mins.

by SPA they have to let you in and listen to you.

1 week before - outline each item you want
background
what decision you want the council to make and by when (usually end of the meeting)
and you want to the decision delivered in writing by email

when there - keep it short and re-iterate your already sent email , thank them for the time and leave

within 24hrs you should get a decsion.

also what is your prop managers name? What are the changes her initials are AL?

Thank you!
The drain pipe seems to go from the roof to my unit and then juts out sideways on either side into the hallway so I am pretty confident that's common property.
The gas pipe comes into the unit from the wall so from downstairs. That gas pipe may service multiple units at once and split into individual units but it is being fed from the building somewhere.



The irony is, the building, from the minutes, tends to be pretty proactive. Good maintenance record and they have fixed many things out of the contingency versus claiming it on insurance. We had a hallway leak that was fixed quite well, etc. And things tend to get taken care of promptly except very recently. I have been here less than a year but it wasn't until recently that I brought up my own issues that I realized this was not being done to my satisfaction. I was thinking to join strata but I work in the city and live in the tri cities and the thought of coming home and doing meetings, etc. in my spare time didn't appeal to me. I'm in my 30's and they all seem in their 50's. I felt like i'd be this annoying kid in council lol. I had an inspector who looked over the building as well and he had a lot of positive things to say, though noted some things that would be creeping up as time went on but standard wear and tear.
I have looked at a lot of condos and some were much newer but looked horrible!

I could do that! Her initials are not AL!

She did respond to me. I e-mailed again last night, and was pretty fired up after work so I professionally but forcefully told her it's been enough time. She responded saying they're looking into it, then today asked me if it's currently leaking. It doesn't look like it is.

Now for the 100 thousand dollar question...am I on the hook to fix my own ceiling? Seems like I am from what I am reading.

I have a few options - go through insurance and make my rates go up, pay somebody to do it at great expense, or do my own carpentry and risk screwing it up lol

It sounds like that drain pipe is common property and therefore the strata is responsible for fixing the leaking pipe.

The damage to your ceiling is inside your strata lot, so you are responsible to fix that, unfortunately. Whether or not you claim on insurance, hire privately, or DIY is up to you. We had damage to our ceiling from water and they cut out a 12x12" square hole. We just fixed it DIY after watching some Youtube videos. It wasn't that hard. Patching drywall is one of the easiest jobs out there once you see the steps.

The gas pipe is an interesting one. If the twisted part is inside your strata lot, and is part of the pipe that services just your gas fireplace, then I think you are responsible for fixing it. But since it might involve having to shut the gas off to the entire building, then it's more likely your strata would fix it. I'd have to do more research on this. In either case, it's not leaking at the moment and it's not a problem, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Perhaps the guy just saw an opportunity to upsell you.

If you are really concerned, I would request an in-person (or virtual) hearing with council to talk about it. Per the SPA, they must give this to you within 4 weeks. Explain to them what you did and what they guy said, and if you need to do anything and who is responsible for it. They might reply and say the Council takes care of the service every 2 years so don't worry about it. Then that's that.

What happens if you just stop paying your strata fees until you are reimbursed?

Only one way to find out ^

Op you in for a test run?

I would not recommend that. It sounds like the perfect way to burn bridges with the current strata council, and generally speaking, you do not want to burn bridges with the strata council as long as you still plan on living there.

It's the texture that's hard to match! But we'll see. :)
I've done some drywall work before and it ain't too hard, albeit never on a ceiling!
The gas needs to be shut off to do the repairs. I just don't want it to start leaking, because if it does, there's no way to shut it off. I just want them to look at it and in writing tell me it's fine.

Hah no I don't want to poke that bear.


UPDATE: I was at work and my strata manager called to say she was at the building with somebody to look at the leak. No notice. Sooo I told her I was an hour and a half away at work (including time until my shift ended and my driving time) but my GF was there. I told her it wasn't presently leaking last time I looked but seemed to correspond with rain.

I texted my GF that they were there and she said she could hear them talking pretty clearly.

She heard the maintenance/plumber/whoever person on the roof talking about how something was either too tall or too short and was "not built right" and the strata president saying, "Oh so it's a building problem" or something to that effect.

Apparently they looked over some floor plans and had some discussions up there. She told me to call her any time if it leaks any more. We'll see what their investigation finds but apparently they were unable to find anything and are stumped. UGh.