New Honda Prelude... concept....

[AstulzerRZD]

Honda is even more rigid than Toyota when it comes to cost, assembly and tooling.
Any of their cars is generally constructed in a way that it could be made in any other plant without much adjustment.

This is how they ended up with:
1) No body on frame
2) No RWD
3) No EV

The upcoming hybrids and ER-EV is probably the biggest change they're making.
Knowing honda they're going to do it all at once across their lineup, along with new interior tech.

[Badhobz]

if Honda had any brain cells, they would retool half their boring ass lineup and just make CTR's for profit. Hell you can increase the CTR by 10k and im sure people would still buy it (ala integra type S)

[AstulzerRZD]

Their margin on even Civics and CR-V is incredible.
Barely updated those things since 2016, using incredibly old engines even in the Type R.

North American HQ probably has a ton of trouble convincing Japan to invest in the large platform - MDX/Pilot/Passport all saw really shitty first gens until commercial traction was had and Japan decided to spend more.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

if Honda had any brain cells, they would retool half their boring ass lineup and just make CTR's for profit. Hell you can increase the CTR by 10k and im sure people would still buy it (ala integra type S)

I'm kinda puzzled that Honda doesn't make more CTRs and charge a tonne for them as the market is totally there. It's not like there's a parts shortage so it's just them choosing to make it limited production for a car that doesn't need to be limited production.

[AstulzerRZD]

There's the human power part to it.
They gotta pull people off other lines and re-tool/re-arrange the line.

Even for Toyota, ignoring any electronics shortages, making Rav4 Hybrid at TMM-C during the pandemic meant pulling people off other parts of the line. Could only make 2 in a row, now back up to 3/4.

[JDMDreams]

^^ well Toyota some how can do it, I've been seeing way more gr Corolla than type r, Integras, I don't even see normal Integras let alone type s

[BIC_BAWS]

GRC is available in slushbox, making it available to the masses

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^ well Toyota some how can do it, I've been seeing way more gr Corolla than type r, Integras, I don't even see normal Integras let alone type s

Literally no one buys Integra, they're 2-3k below MRSP while Civic are generally selling with markup.

Toyota has a lot more resource and flexibility in their manufacturing.
They do RWD, BOF, all shapes and sizes right?

They also have more scale and flexibility in their contracts for parts - how many suppliers are making the GM/Honda dual axis strut?

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by supafamous

It won't be $60k as Hondas are cheaper in Canada - a Civic hatchback touring in the states is $33.5k USD which would be over $46k here but we sell it for $43k. CTR is about $55k so the Prelude will probably land around $48-50k here.

You nailed it.

https://hondanews.ca/en-CA/releases/...ficient-models

Prelude2026 Honda Prelude Pricing & Fuel Economy

Hybrid

$49,990

5.0 / 5.7 / 5.4

[JDMDreams]

So a Prius coupe. Isn't a phev Prius still cheaper?

[AstulzerRZD]

That's like comparing a base Macan with PTV and PASM to a CX-5 Turbo.
They both have 2.0T engine, AWD, etc.

On Prius, I've driven them a few thousand KM, both the standard and prime.
It's at least as good as Mazda 3 or A3 but it's no sports car.

[JDMDreams]

I thought the phev Prius was pretty fast now a days. And you can drive in pure ev. Also they are in the same price bracket.

[JDMDreams]

2026 Prius Plug-in Hybrid Se $43,056.50

2026 Prius Plug-in Hybrid XSE Premium $51,541.50

220 Horsepower & up to 72km EV range

Also isn't Toyota going more aggressive with the new Corolla thing they just revealed

[radeonboy]

$50k is where I expected the Prelude to be priced in Canada.

I think it's priced alright given the limited market and the added R&D + overhead cost of developing such a niche product. I can see this appealing to DINKs in the 40s and above who want a stylish and comfortable two-door for everyday use, much like the Mini crowd.

[Badhobz]

as a dink in my 40's i wouldnt touch this piece of shit with a 10 foot pole.

just you watch, it'll be a sales failure and they'll pull the plug the same way the CRZ was killed off.

[Traum]

The $50k MSRP is all good and well. But how much will it actually cost at the dealerships? and how good/bad is the availability gonna be?

[JDMDreams]

^^ I doubt there's a huge demand for a $50000 hybrid coupe. Isn't sedans dead, let alone a none sporty 4 cylinder automatic coupe. I see this as a Mitsubishi eclipse or Altima coupe, cl coupe how well did those do?

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

A lot of us car enthusiasts also forget about cost. Trying to do all of that and sell the hybrid for 60k instead of 90k also makes things a lot more difficult.

The BMW system is good but we're also seeing they have underspent on BMS - Feels like almost 20% of X5 and X3 packs degrade and require cell replacements in the warranty period.

I saw that study on pack life. It would seem like BMW expected their target market to not utilize the battery the way a hypermiling freak like me would. On moderate use they have ~80% life at 100k miles. 70% on hard use. I'd say I am part of the hard use group but my mileage is low at only 60k km.

Judging on data from my app, most users are around 60/40 battery/gas, whereas we are consistently >90% battery. But we also only put on roughly 12k/ year (we are 17k km since we bought in June 2024)

The pack is warrantied for 8y/160k, gonna do a battery check at 6-7y to see where we are at. They replace the pack if you are <70% capacity, our in service date is 2021 Oct, so it's been 4 years and judging by reported mileage when fully charged, we are right around the 80% capacity mark.

Originally Posted by supafamous

Acura is about 10% of Honda's US volume and sells more than double Infiniti's volume but only about 40% what Lexus sells. It's not a super profitable brand but it's still got solid muscles on it.

It's been a long time since Acura was supposed to be an euro competitor - like 20 years ago? It's now just a premium Honda/Japanese brand much the same way that Lexus is no longer competing head to head with the Germans.

It's still a messy brand though - it doesn't move enough volume to print money (like Lexus probably does) so Honda doesn't really invest it in but the RDX/MDX are both good products for their price point but they are not class leading in any way.

Savagegeese had a lot to say about the state of Lexus and a lot of it applies to Acura:

https://youtu.be/WbKgiAdJpDY?si=LQ1ikNUBSR8ONY0v

Acura also has around less than 1/2 the model footprint of Lexus in NA. Lexus has 7 SUVs, Acura only recently added their 3rd, the ADX, which from the looks of things, isn't selling at all.

Acura is down to 1 sedan, the Integra, whereas Lexus still has 3, though I think it's coming down to 2 starting next year as the LS is being discontinued.

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Honda is even more rigid than Toyota when it comes to cost, assembly and tooling.
Any of their cars is generally constructed in a way that it could be made in any other plant without much adjustment.

This is how they ended up with:
1) No body on frame
2) No RWD
3) No EV

The upcoming hybrids and ER-EV is probably the biggest change they're making.
Knowing honda they're going to do it all at once across their lineup, along with new interior tech.

Looking back, that's always how they've been, their drivetrains are lego blocks, everything fits everywhere most of the time. Inb4 they release V6 ER-EV people start swapping them into regular Civics, or them just doing a SH Prelude with it.

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Literally no one buys Integra, they're 2-3k below MRSP while Civic are generally selling with markup.

Toyota has a lot more resource and flexibility in their manufacturing.
They do RWD, BOF, all shapes and sizes right?

They also have more scale and flexibility in their contracts for parts - how many suppliers are making the GM/Honda dual axis strut?

How close does the Civic and Integra run in the states given the state of sales?

We need to keep in mind that Toyota is a lot bigger than Honda in terms of volume. Always has been. Honda tech has been a bit of an also-ran since SH-AWD. Nothing they've done so far has been ground breaking like the original CVCC, VTEC, or record breaking like double-wishbone shod economy cars. Their best cars were greater than the sum of it's parts, and that's where the current Civic and CRV hybrids shine.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

So a Prius coupe. Isn't a phev Prius still cheaper?

I thought the phev Prius was pretty fast now a days. And you can drive in pure ev. Also they are in the same price bracket.

Going fast != good to drive, otherwise Teslas would be fucking amazing. I was driving on the other day again, it's quick in a straight line, but otherwise I don't like it.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^ I doubt there's a huge demand for a $50000 hybrid coupe. Isn't sedans dead, let alone a none sporty 4 cylinder automatic coupe. I see this as a Mitsubishi eclipse or Altima coupe, cl coupe how well did those do?

I am not very good at gauging how much interest there would be for a $50k hybrid "automatic" coupe with only 200hp (but 240-ish lb/ft torque). But what I can say is, the Civic, in both normal and CTR form, drives really well, and there are some CTR bits in the Prelude.

Honda has always commanded a premium over other similar cars, and it certainly has its fan base. Whether all of these benefits are enough to propel the Prelude to sell well enough is not something I can tell.

In Japan, customer reception has far exceed Honda's expecations. But Japanese customers obviously have extremely different tastes and preferences compared to N.American customers, so the Japanese customer response is not a good indicator for the car's success in the N.American market.

[AstulzerRZD]

How close does the Civic and Integra run in the states given the state of sales?

They're fucked. Integras are cheaper than Civics to buy since they're discounted while the Ciivc is marked up.
1500 integras a month vs. 20k civics

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

They're fucked. Integras are cheaper than Civics to buy since they're discounted while the Ciivc is marked up.
1500 integras a month vs. 20k civics

With the Civic getting the hybrid powertrain and the Integra not getting it there's really zero reason to buy the Integra over the Civic. It's not like the Integra is much more refined (there's maybe a bit more sound insulation?) or faster or roomier or better handling.

The Integra could/would make sense if the hybrid drivetrain was standard with an option for a 252hp 2.0T turbo in the A-Spec trim (basically what the Civic Si should be).

[bcrdukes]

Is the Integra still $90K before taxes?

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by supafamous

With the Civic getting the hybrid powertrain and the Integra not getting it there's really zero reason to buy the Integra over the Civic. It's not like the Integra is much more refined (there's maybe a bit more sound insulation?) or faster or roomier or better handling.

The Integra could/would make sense if the hybrid drivetrain was standard with an option for a 252hp 2.0T turbo in the A-Spec trim (basically what the Civic Si should be).

Yeah no one is buying 1.5T civics either, it’s all hybrid sales these days.
The image conscious will do a demo lease on a 330i cuz it’s so cheap here, so the Acura has no market.

I do think it looks a lot better than the Civic, which just makes you look like an uber driver or poor.

[EvoFire]

I actually really like how the beluga looks. I see just a regular touring on the street and it's a good looking car. Ditto those who add the big wang on.

The Integra is fine, if a bit too busy. I'd imagine the Civic aging a lot better in the long run in terms of looks. They need to put the ER EV drivetrain in the Integra too considering how it's even faster than the Si in a straight line. My take on the A spec would be different imo, hybrid drivetrain with Type S running gear. Oh I just described the Prelude

[underscore]

This seems like a hard sell when the starting price is only $306 less than a GR Corolla. Or a Golf GTI is like 12k less.