The Modern Dating Thread

[GS8]

Not to be cynical but if my GF & I broke up, I would never get into another relationship again. At my age, not even worth the investment.

If I wanted an unpredictable journey, I'd rather fly a Cessna blindfolded.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

A few thoughts:

1. Girls have been trying to teach each other that coffee dates are low effort and only done by broke boys. In reality, there are many benefits to this style of a first date but many girls simply want you to "prove you're a provider" so something like this simply won't cut it. Do yourself a favour and walk away from girls who straight up demand a fancy dinner right off the bat.

2. the dollar amount spent on a dinner is difficult for those of you who've long been married for a very specific reason. with apps, you're literally talking about treating a total stranger to an expensive meal who is for SURE talking to multiple other dudes. this isn't the same as traditional dating where you got to know someone in person over the course or weeks/months/years and finally have the opportunity to take them out after already establishing mutual interest. so to expect us as men to shell out $200-$300 for a dinner with some rando is not a smart idea nor does it generally lead to any kind of success with said girl.

3. i find the general disconnect in dating these days stems from wanting all the traditional aspects of dating (picking them up, opening doors, paying for the meal) while providing none of the traditional things on their end themselves. girls are quick to tell you what men should do but try asking them (definitely can't tell them) what it is they think women should do and you'll see how high the double standards are nowadays.

4. I remember one girl on an app who was truthful on her profile and said she is currently pregnant with her ex's baby and that she is keeping it. You'd have to be an absolute idiot to walk into a situation like that or desperate AF. Even then, single moms also have extremely high standards and will gaslight you into believing you're lucky to even be considered (ask me how I know).


Takeaway message:

I can tell you from personal experience that paying for expensive dinners didn't lead to much of anything when I was still out there. Save your money for the girl who proves she's worth it.

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

One girl I had met, it wasn't until maybe date number 3 or 4 where she finally told me she had a son from a previous marriage. In order to manipulate the situation in her favour she told me things like "he's an amazing person and you'd be LUCKY to have him in your life". Girl, stfu. If you had been honest from the get go about having a kid I wouldn't have wasted any of my time considering you.

I used to think it's the noble thing to step up and be a father figure in this situation but that is flawed thinking. You're adding drama to your life no matter how you cut it. You are walking into a scenario where you have zero authority. You'll be met with things like don't tell my kid what to do, you're not his father. Or the kid themselves saying I don't have to listen to you, you ain't my dad. A lot of single moms simply want someone to finance their lifestyle and you're the sucker they have their eyes on.

Also, single moms KNOW they are at a huge disadvantage because why would a guy knowingly choose extra responsibility rather than starting fresh with a girl who has zero baggage? So how do you correct this disadvantage? Gaslight the men into thinking they're not a real man if they aren't willing to accept responsibility. It's not the mom's fault, it's yours! Imagine that

Let's not forget that you'll never hear the true story as to why things didn't work out in previous marriage/relationship. Accountability is often a one way street with these types. Did they cheat? Did they steal money? Did they start physical altercations and then claim to be the victim then call police? You'll never know so why choose this girl? Sure, some of them might actually tell you the truth but again, good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Razor Ramon HG

I agree entirely with what you said. Wanting a woman's perspective, I asked my fiance what she thought and I'm just sharing what she said.

1. She said overall she agrees with what you said.

2. She said that coffee dates are so-so. Coffee dates are neutral with low risk, low intimacy. She would agree to a coffee date if she didn't think too much of the guy, but wanted to give it a shot or was bored. If vibes were good, it generally led to lunch after. She wouldn’t want a fancy dinner unless there was real compatibility.

3. She said that she tends to associate money with effort, but that's just her standard. She said for every one of her, there are tons of women out there that are happy to split the bill or have lower standards.

For what it's worth, I talked to my fiance nonstop for 3-4 days before we met up for happy hour at Cactus. I think the bill was $80 for a few appetizers and drinks. I don't think I would've taken her there if I didn't feel a real compatibility.

I wasn't sure about one girl so we just went for a coffee and walk around Central Park, lol.

TBH, there is nothing wrong if you want to spend hundreds of dollars on a first date. I think it's when men expect to get something back in return -- nothing is guaranteed.

I talked to my wife about this as well and she mentioned a few things.

As a mom, the kids are going to be her number 1 priority. Chances are the kids are going to come ahead of you as some one she's dating. I argued about it with her where if she was gonna move in with a guy, you two will share the space and you'd expect the guy to help and then the guy will want to at least impose some of his own house rules. Given that scenario, she said she'd likely not be looking for anyone at all, and most of all won't be on dating apps. So your pool of single moms who ARE on dating app will likely skew towards batshit crazy/entitled/no self awareness.

As a single mom, she said she will have VERY HEIGHTENED sense of danger where the man she meets may potentially be abusive, to her and to her kids. And we have seen some crazy chicks where we agree it applies to both sides. She did mention the abuse thing is actually scarier for men because typically an abusive man is harder to hide. An abusive woman usually are more subtle about it and society's view on it is still very lopsided, where a woman can totally lie about shit, but a man will have to jump through flaming shit hoops to prove it.

I talked to her about how Gerbs found it easier in person (including the bit where he's cheating by being 6'1). She said yeah, cause again goes back to app dating to be so easy and quick, you are going to find girls who will find you replaceable vs meeting someone IRL.

We talked about dating costs. At no point ever in our relationship was Cactus not good enough. Again, a regular dinner for two, 2 mains 2 drinks $100 imo is fair. If the chick thinks Cactus or equivalent is not good enough for say a first date, then maybe the compatitibility isn't there.

[EvoFire]

I'll ask her about coffee/first dates tmr. Again though I'm in the boomer group that probably lines up more with Traum and Supa, where we've been together for almost 20 years and we are severely outdated.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

We talked about dating costs. At no point ever in our relationship was Cactus not good enough. Again, a regular dinner for two, 2 mains 2 drinks $100 imo is fair. If the chick thinks Cactus or equivalent is not good enough for say a first date, then maybe the compatitibility isn't there.

IMO from the girl's perspective, Cactus has gotta be a good restaurant for a first date, or any date! With their prettier-than-average waitresses in those little black dress, it's a sure-fire way to gain some quick insights into what kind of guy he is LOL~

Disclaimer -- I probably haven't been to Cactus for something like 2 - 3 years, so I can't confirm whether their lady servers are still as pretty as they used to be.

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by murd0c

best dating site hands down is Hinge. The rest are complete garbage and the same shit over and over.

Do you pay for the extra likes etc on Hinge?

[snowball]

Originally Posted by GS8

Not to be cynical but if my GF & I broke up, I would never get into another relationship again. At my age, not even worth the investment.

If I wanted an unpredictable journey, I'd rather fly a Cessna blindfolded.

Weird, must be our age. I have the exact same thoughts, if anything went awry I'd move into a one bedroom condo and have 3 cars and a mod shop. Rather be with nobody than the wrong person, that's for sure.

[donk.]

Your gf might not be there for you, but your cars always will

[spoon.ek9]

Men often choose peace over anything else. If a women is constantly bringing chaos into your life, let her go. If she doesn't add to your peace, she ain't worth keeping. Simple words to live by.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by dark0821

All the rich 2nd gen / newer immigrant friends that I met thru Uni and beyond are almost all divorced, on their 2nd marriages or what not...

Never thought of it till Hehe mention and I think back... oh yea....

Why is that, I met a buncha fobs last year, 3-4 of them are married at early 20's.

All divorced, cheating with kids. Had money early so they could afford to get married?

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by punkwax

Do you pay for the extra likes etc on Hinge?

I did it in the beginning but it's pretty exhausting on my end when you have to think of a response for their prompts. You can just like the prompts without a response but that doesn't really get you anywhere. I was more curious than anything, but after spending like an hour a day on the app, it's definitely not healthy.

IMO 8 free likes a day are plenty, and I don't even use it daily. Again, I find it astonishing when some people were crying 8 likes aren't enough for free tier.

[Teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Why is that, I met a buncha fobs last year, 3-4 of them are married at early 20's.

All divorced, cheating with kids. Had money early so they could afford to get married?

Going to hazard a guess, culturally its

a) way higher pressure to marry by a certain age
b) marriage is seen more transactionally, for all sides.
c) marriage involves the whole family, which marriage simply kicks the problems down the road. marriage early satisfies the family pressuring for marriage, but incompatibilities between the couple AND the families eventually rear their ugly head.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Why is that, I met a buncha fobs last year, 3-4 of them are married at early 20's.

All divorced, cheating with kids. Had money early so they could afford to get married?

Yeah was just going to say, it's cultural.

Also might want to rephrase the bolded text seeing as how we're in the Epstein era.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Why is that, I met a buncha fobs last year, 3-4 of them are married at early 20's.

All divorced, cheating with kids. Had money early so they could afford to get married?

If they are rich 2nd gen from Mainland China within the 35 - 45 yrs old cohort (currently), then chances are:

1) Marrying young was a traditional norm and expectation. Women will start getting pressured from their parents to get married if they haven't by the time they turn 25. Guys will probably see the same when they reach their late 20's.

2) They don't necessarily marry for love, and there are a whole lot of other reasons to get married. Some just do it to get their parents off their backs. Some do it out of a matter of cultural / societal norm. Some do it just to have kids. And if your family is rich enough, sometimes you marry for strenthening familial ties and such.

3) They are expected to have kids once they get married. Again, parents will start nagging their (married) children to have kids.

4) Infidelity is not a particularly surprising thing. Some may choose to turn a blind eye towards that; others may not.

But things are no longer quite like that for the Mainland Chinese crowd. Esp for those women who are better educated and/or higher up in their careers, their expectations have remained very high, as everyone pretty much only have their eyes towards marrying up, or finding someone at least on the same level as they are. But again, unmarried men fitting that category are not only few and far inbetween. Even when they are available, they prefer a mate who is younger, and often look for more of a home caretaker to attend to the family needs instead of career women. It has become such a serious problem that it has even received international (news media) attention.

[bcrdukes]

Oh yeah, don't forget their valuation of boys. Ugh! Most of them are useless!

[AstulzerRZD]

focusing too much on dinner and their requirements.
just gotta lead:

"I've got a fun idea - wear some shoes you can walk in and we'll grab great food along the day �� we'll do dinner on date two"

[spoon.ek9]

Speaking of leading, it's extremely ironic that they want a man who leads but you also can't tell them what to do lol.

[The_AK]

Interesting thread. Its an absolute minefield out there and gladly no longer in the trenches based on what I see online and hear from friends.

If I was to get back out on the market again I would probably stick to just my interests rather than go through the apps again. Given how transactional apps are I think that meeting someone IRL is the way forward. Market is over-saturated on both sides when considering online therefore need to go outside the norm to differentiate/stand out. Its possible but will take a different type of effort rather than swiping.

I do think about what the dynamic will be like for my kid when he becomes of age but thats gonna be a few many more years before that problem arises.

[supafamous]

https://www.reddit.com/r/askvan/comm...ing_a_car_for/

Guy asks in r/AskVan how big a dealbreaker it is to not have a car for dating. Quite a lot of responses say it's not a big deal while some definitely say it's a dealbreaker.

Regarding all the negative comments about women's unreasonable expectations in today's dating world I've been out of the dating pool for a long time so I don't have direct personal experience but I do have a lot of cousins in the late 20s to early 30s age range who are middle class folks that I talk to a fair bit and I haven't heard them talk about the dating world the way I'm hearing it here.

Re: Coffee dates - I'd only do that if it's a blind date or someone I know nothing about. Any time I asked a girl out it was someone I'd gotten to know at least a bit - enough that I had real interest versus just it being a crapshoot - so that I was willing to put some time and money behind it. I'm asking so I'm paying, it's not about gender roles, it's about manners - I asked for your time and attention and the least I can do is pick up the tab.

I do a lot of networking and it's not so different in that world - people buy me lunch/drinks all the time and I do the same for them depending on who asked and who's the one getting more of out it. Sometimes it's cheap (coffee when it's a stranger), sometimes it's a bit pricier (lunch, dinner or even a nice bottle of alcohol). Anyone who knows me a bit and asks me for my time knows to offer lunch or drinks and not just a cup of coffee. Feels like it works just like dating.

[Traum]

With car sharing companies being a fairly common and relatively inexpensive thing in Metro Vancouver, is not having a car really a deal breaker?

[BIC_BAWS]

Coffee dates are really just blind dates/first dates you don't know anything about. It's a who the fuck are you check and usually I use that for dating apps exclusively. Problem is the women expect something grandiose during a coffee date, when it's really, how the fuck would I know if I like you (or signal towards that) if I don't even know who the fuck you are.


Funny Gerbs brings up cheating..... Remember how in different threads we talked about how women typically mourn the relationship, while being in the relationship? I got another example.

My friend got the ick from her bf over the holiday season, apparently he was being too feminine/clingy for her - they're LDR and she would just be turned off by the things he does or how he behaves when he visits. So she starts flirting with another man - "for fun" / "it was harmless" she says. Fast forward to the day before Valentine's, she made out with this man in the elevator, hooked up with him multiple times throughout the night/next day, and then breaks up with her bf on valentine's day. Fast forward some more, the now-ex-bf wanted closure and asked if she even feels sad, she puts on an act and then gaslight herself into being sad. Then went to a therapist who used therapy words to label her behavior and let her avoid accountability. Ironically, this bf is the guy she starting flirting with, when she was in her last (albeit abusive) relationship. And while all this is happening, her ex-bf from like 20 years ago drops in with a msg/email/dm every now and then for last 20 years while she's in other r/s... idk why (well I know why) she doesn't just no contact and block/ignore him on everything. "Judgement free-zone" but I called her a whore and told her there's a pattern of lacking accountability.

This, along with the "as you should" women, and other manipulative women I've encountered in the past few months... just makes me more distrustful of women. Incel behaviour or not, I'd rather keep my peace and sanity, especially bc it has taken me so long to process past situationships/my actions in those situationships.

Originally Posted by Traum

With car sharing companies being a fairly common and relatively inexpensive thing in Metro Vancouver, is not having a car really a deal breaker?

I lent my car to my friend for a few weeks this month. He mentioned his gf has said smt about how it would be nice for him to drive and drive his own (well at least not her) car. His gf had a X3MC and even then she would rather him drive his beatup 96 Camry, than for them to go out in her car. I think it's the principle of him taking her out, rather than him taking her out in her things.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

My friend got the ick from her bf over the holiday season, apparently he was being too feminine/clingy for her - they're LDR and she would just be turned off by the things he does or how he behaves when he visits. So she starts flirting with another man - "for fun" / "it was harmless" she says.

This new dude was the reason she got "the ick" with her man, he didn't just conveniently stumble into her life as soon as she started getting annoyed by her boyfriend. Someone she liked better and gave her attention came into her life and she needed a reason to cheat on him so "the ick" was her excuse.

[Tapioca]

I'm seeing more white women with Asian guys these days around town. A lot more compared to 15-20 years ago when I was still single.

Young guys should date people who appreciate you, instead of the entitled.

[AstulzerRZD]

Seems like people are trying to apply fairness logic to dating but attraction doesn't care about fair.

It's chemistry, timing, options - everyone's standards shift depending on their situation and most people would do the same.

IMO what actually matters is how you show up. Like the dinner thing - that's a test, flip it, set the tone for what you like and why it's awesome, and you'll find most are down.

Also not gonna lie - a lot of us grew up in Asian households where you're rewarded for being agreeable, not making waves, putting the group first. That works at home. It does not work in dating. You actually gotta take up space, have opinions, lead. It's a different muscle.

A lot of these stories aren't one side being terrible. It's frustrated people picking bad fits and not talking.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

With car sharing companies being a fairly common and relatively inexpensive thing in Metro Vancouver, is not having a car really a deal breaker?

I think, from the comments, that it really depends on where exactly you live in the GVRD and what kind of hobbies you have. Live downtown and you're an urbanite? Not a problem. Live in Surrey and like the outdoors? Problematic.

I bet that question asked in NYC and LA gets completely opposite answers. Same goes for London/Tokyo vs Miami.

[Acura604]

just SOME of my many adventures of ONLINE DATING.

1. dated someone super hot..worked at THE BAY so fully used her 40% discount but wtf, functional alcoholic that turns into mr Hyde when she drank..and of course blacks out the day after.

2. the usual catfish shit - photos are 10yrs old... super fat now!

3. ghosting ghosting ghosting - its the norm

4. "Are We Dating The Same Guy Vancouver" - 75000 member site of angry women that slander men EVERY day by posting their dating profiles


...i'm going to write a book soon.