[Ch28]

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1121678

The opposition NDP has launched a mission to destroy the proposed Harmonized Sales Tax.

Party leader Carole James stood near Metrotown Mall in Burnaby to give supporters their marching orders, "To write to their MLA, to write to the premier, make their voice heard because this crosses over political lines. It's no wonder people are cynical about politics and politicians when they see an act like they see with the Liberal government. Where they told us during the election campaign that they weren't going to implement the HST. Then they turn around a couple of months later and implement the new tax. We have to stop that."

James says the new tax will cost consumers billions of dollars.

Meanwhile, Finance Minister Colin Hansen is firing back at opposition leader Carole James for her criticism of the proposed HST.

Hansen says James hasn't done her homework about how the tax works.

He says small businesses pay provincial sales tax on many of their inputs, even if they don't show it on bills to their customers.

Hansen says only people who think businesses "eat" that cost will see the HST as more costly, "If you believe, which is actually the fact, that those costs get embedded into the cost of the goods and services and passed on to the ultimate consumer, then, this actually makes sense."

Hansen says only three other canadian provinces have yet to move toward a Harmonized Sales Tax structure.

He was speaking with CKNW's Sean Leslie on The World Today.

[Gnomes]

Businesses pass on savings to consumers? That's total bull

[tool001]

u can destroy HST, pst, gst. the government (whoever is in power) will find one way or another to fuck us over... period

[Ferra]

Businesses pass on savings to consumers? That's total bull
over the long-term, yes, business eventually pass on the savings to consumers.

Also, business making more money = bigger pay raise = richer consumers at the end.

People need to stop seeing consumer and business as separate entities when you are considering the economy as a whole.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i'm still not voting for them.

[MG1]

I don't mind if they add both taxes together to save on paperwork and administration costs, but to tax items that have not been taxed before under both taxes, is not right.

Again, us middle class and up folk will survive and chug along. It's the poor who will be hit yet again. Oh well, shit happens. Taxes are OK, if they pay for services we need, but it better be used wisely. I hate handing my money over to pay for dumbass projects that do little to ease the overall situation.

[Gnomes]

Reason why I am so bitter is because I'm expecting to buy a home in next 3 years and I'll be hit big.

[ASG111]

over the long-term, yes, business eventually pass on the savings to consumers.

Also, business making more money = bigger pay raise = richer consumers at the end.

People need to stop seeing consumer and business as separate entities when you are considering the economy as a whole.

i still don't get how it will be beneficial to businesses in the end... does anyone have a coles notes (dumb down) version of this HST thing?

[tiger_handheld]

ok. seriously. its not a lot of paper to remit GST & PST!!

Gordo's estimation of saving biz 1.9b in administration costs = BS!

it takes me about 30mins to prepare a GST return, and about 40 mins to do a PST return. not hard folks!

the only idiotic thing is that PST N GST returns are not due on the same day, so you have to spend time calculating numbers as of different days. if they change that , then it should be fine!

[Ferra]

i still don't get how it will be beneficial to businesses in the end... does anyone have a coles notes (dumb down) version of this HST thing?
Right now, registered business can claim back the money they paid on GST, but not PST.
Example: if a company spent $100 + GST/PST on office supplies. They can claim back the $5 GST from the government. PST is none refundable. So the company actual expenses = $108. ($100 + PST)
With the new HST, the combined taxes both become refundable, thus, their real expense is now $100 instead of $108.

[Ferra]

ok. seriously. its not a lot of paper to remit GST & PST!!

Gordo's estimation of saving biz 1.9b in administration costs = BS!

it takes me about 30mins to prepare a GST return, and about 40 mins to do a PST return. not hard folks!

the only idiotic thing is that PST N GST returns are not due on the same day, so you have to spend time calculating numbers as of different days. if they change that , then it should be fine!
weird you spent less time preparing GST than PST as GST is usually a lot more complicated since you take into account all of your expenses as well as revenue, while with PST you only need to process your sales revenue.

[ASG111]

Right now, registered business can claim back the money they paid on GST, but not PST.
Example: if a company spent $100 + GST/PST on office supplies. They can claim back the $5 GST from the government. PST is none refundable. So the company actual expenses = $108. ($100 + PST)
With the new HST, the combined taxes both become refundable, thus, their real expense is now $100 instead of $108.

so... how will this be beneficial to consumers in the long run? i can see why we can the shaft in the SR, but you mentioned that it will benefit the economy and consumers in the SR?

[quasi]

Reason why I am so bitter is because I'm expecting to buy a home in next 3 years and I'll be hit big.

You'll only be effected if you were planning on buying a brand new never lived in home. There is no GST or soon to be HST on a lived in one. More incenetive to not buy new which is why developers are so choked and are going to be hit harder then anyone by this. If you have an option between a brand new house in the burbs listed at say 500K + 60K HST and then another house down the street thats a year old listed at 500K no HST which one would you buy?

I bought a new home in 2007 and seriously I regret it. At that time it was the 6% extra in GST, that money could have went to something else. I'll never buy a new home again I'll look for something lived in even if it's only a year old.

[tiger_handheld]

weird you spent less time preparing GST than PST as GST is usually a lot more complicated since you take into account all of your expenses as well as revenue, while with PST you only need to process your sales revenue.

I've had experience doing GST alot more, so i got faster at it :)....

[Eatman]

You'll only be effected if you were planning on buying a brand new never lived in home. There is no GST or soon to be HST on a lived in one. More incenetive to not buy new which is why developers are so choked and are going to be hit harder then anyone by this. If you have an option between a brand new house in the burbs listed at say 500K + 60K HST and then another house down the street thats a year old listed at 500K no HST which one would you buy?

I bought a new home in 2007 and seriously I regret it. At that time it was the 6% extra in GST, that money could have went to something else. I'll never buy a new home again I'll look for something lived in even if it's only a year old.

thanks for clarifying that quasi

[+Kardboard+]

i'm still not voting for them.

I don't mind if they add both taxes together to save on paperwork and administration costs, but to tax items that have not been taxed before under both taxes, is not right.

Again, us middle class and up folk will survive and chug along. It's the poor who will be hit yet again. Oh well, shit happens. Taxes are OK, if they pay for services we need, but it better be used wisely. I hate handing my money over to pay for dumbass projects that do little to ease the overall situation.
+1 on both accounts.

The NDP's issue isn't what they're doing against the HST or promoting healthcare/social services, it's their fundamental philosophy with respect to governance. I just don't buy it, nor particularly trust their somewhat-idealist views of things. Not to mention that they've had their chance and screwed us over for the next few years.

[Gt-R R34]

The HST hurts the low income families, while it saves business. Extra % on food is NOT cool.

[Durrann1984]

can NDP realli do something

[StylinRed]

Wouldnt it make sense to just allow businesses to claim back on PST as well as GST


lets be honest here the HST is just to grab more money from the public and isn't the most reasonable aid for businesses (who aren't exactly struggling because of PST)






can NDP realli do something

if the public really decided to rally against the HST it would be the people doing something not the NDP, if the public rallies behind the NDP maybe theres a slightly impossible chance they could get a no-confidence vote or something (i got no clue) and get another election in before the HST comes into effect and then remove it :)

[SpuGen]

HST = It'll save the slump that we're gonna get fucked with post-olympics.

No HST = More money for welfare/lazy people/crack-addicts, while everything stays the same.

You know, if you tax the $100K+/year people an extra 5%, we could have tons of money.

I'm just saying.

[Gnomes]

You'll only be effected if you were planning on buying a brand new never lived in home. There is no GST or soon to be HST on a lived in one. More incenetive to not buy new which is why developers are so choked and are going to be hit harder then anyone by this. If you have an option between a brand new house in the burbs listed at say 500K + 60K HST and then another house down the street thats a year old listed at 500K no HST which one would you buy?

I bought a new home in 2007 and seriously I regret it. At that time it was the 6% extra in GST, that money could have went to something else. I'll never buy a new home again I'll look for something lived in even if it's only a year old.

But I do want to buy a new never lived in condo :(

[Jermyzy]

i'm still not voting for them.

+1

[Ferra]

Wouldnt it make sense to just allow businesses to claim back on PST as well as GST


lets be honest here the HST is just to grab more money from the public and isn't the most reasonable aid for businesses (who aren't exactly struggling because of PST)

If government just let business claim back PST, THEN the government would be losing revenue. (And that never happens;))
With the HST, what happens (short term) is: Business +1, Consumer -1, Government 0
For the government, revenue lost from business being able to claim back their PST is offset by consumer paying for additional PST

[Ferra]

so... how will this be beneficial to consumers in the long run? i can see why we can the shaft in the SR, but you mentioned that it will benefit the economy and consumers in the SR?
in my view, what HST does is essentially shifting a tax burden from Business to Consumer, and in doing so, it increases the system efficiency slightly by saving business and government a bit of administrative costs..


Many consumers would argue this just screw them. However, the truth is lower business expenses either means lower prices for consumer OR higher co. income which leads to higher wages eventually. So at the end, it is really all the same.
The key proponent for introducing the HST is basically saving that bit of administrative expenses.

[MG1]

But I do want to buy a new never lived in condo :(

I too do not like to live in places where others have been in. No matter how clean it looks. Paying the extra is a price I'm willing to pay. I've been in four houses now and all have been new. Also, when you buy new, you can have it your way, like Burger King. Pick colours, carpets etc. My first house was a spec home in a subdivision where the houses have not yet been built. My second one, I basically had custom built. I bought the land, found a reputable builder, made all the cabinets myself from scratch and put in the hardwood floors, etc. Saved tonnes of money. The third was another pre-ordered home built by Park Lane, and the fourth, my present house, is a house that was already built and on the market as such. Anyway................. way off topic.

[StylinRed]

If government just let business claim back PST, THEN the government would be losing revenue. (And that never happens;))
With the HST, what happens (short term) is: Business +1, Consumer -1, Government 0
For the government, revenue lost from business being able to claim back their PST is offset by consumer paying for additional PST

isn't it more like this?

business buys apple for $107.00 gets $7.00 back from govt (only doin pst)

govt @ -$7.00

business sells apple for $200.00 to consumer who buys it for $214

govt @ +$7.00

consumer @ -$14.00

so Business/Govt +1 Consumer -1

??? (ive got no clue here :P)

[MG1]

Just buy shit under the table..........

[tool001]

even if prices go down for businesses, how often you see the savings passed on to the consumer?

HOW often you see price at retail go down.

when gas prices were crazy high last year, food prices went up,, and they stayed up, even though gas prices fell..

[ASG111]

Many consumers would argue this just screw them. However, the truth is lower business expenses either means lower prices for consumer OR higher co. income which leads to higher wages eventually.

even if prices go down for businesses, how often you see the savings passed on to the consumer?

HOW often you see price at retail go down.

when gas prices were crazy high last year, food prices went up,, and they stayed up, even though gas prices fell..

Exactly what I want to say... Businesses will ALWAYS be businesses. They will always try to take a profit out of everything... That means if prices increased from $5 to $7 but they say they will decrease the price back to $5 when something something happens... when the time comes, they will NEVER go back down because it is already happening and they want to keep that buck to themselves.

[Sodium]

^ Werd....I know many vendors that are still charging us like 14% fuel surcharge throughout this whole time.....

[Gnomes]

If gov't says business saves money and pass down savings to consumers, the govt should impose a 7% discount on all their prices for the next 5 years.

[you!]

im getting really tired hearing about all these tax grabs and to make things worse translink announces their bs hikes too...:(

[ASG111]

im getting really tired hearing about all these tax grabs and to make things worse translink announces their bs hikes too...:(

at least that's not inked down yet. they are just proposing it

[WakeMeUp]

Exactly what I want to say... Businesses will ALWAYS be businesses. They will always try to take a profit out of everything... That means if prices increased from $5 to $7 but they say they will decrease the price back to $5 when something something happens... when the time comes, they will NEVER go back down because it is already happening and they want to keep that buck to themselves.

You are forgetting about competition. The cost savings to competitors in a market will give them the ability to invest cash in the best way they see fit. Some may increase quality, others will focus on marketing, new product design, new hires, or possibly lower their prices. They don't have to lower their prices to benefit the consumer. The fact that all competitors have the option of lowering prices/better product/service offering is enough to pass on a benefit to consumers. This of course assumes the market isn't over regulated and fucked with by the government.

Oh yeah... going back to the initial topic of this thread:

The NDP can go fuck themselves.

[ImportPsycho]

im getting really tired hearing about all these tax grabs and to make things worse translink announces their bs hikes too...:(

+1
everyone wants more money
where is our fking bailout

[m4k4v4li]

what do you expect when harper lowers the tax rate to 5% to please voters but not adjust spending accordingly... yet approves of HST
the provincial gov't is running on a phat deficit

should have just NOT lowered taxes in the godamn first place and manage funds better

[scheng924]

the NDP petition won't work, no one will ever take a look at that petition... i dont' think the HST is wrong.. but i think the libs made a mistake by not consulting and doing it too soon after an election...

i do believe in business competition so i do believe savings will be passed down to the consumer, however,with that being said, it's more of a long term benefit than short term..

i've taken a look at other provinces' HST implementation and other OECD countries' implementation. basically... sucks for consumers in the short run, long run ranges from lowering of prices to higher salaries...

so take your pick...

and i always ask myself this question..
what would NDP have done if the 495 million deficit won't hold.... i can always imagine a news conference by the NDP to raise PST "temporarily" by 3% and say something like each quarter you'll get a tax credit back blah blah but only end up being 1% back..

[7seven]

The HST will affect me quite a bit, hell just last week I spent about $1,700 alone eating/drinking out, and I usually average $500 to $700 a week at just restaurants (Not including clubs/lounges), but my hatred for the NDP is >>>>>>>> than my concern for the HST lol.

[wouwou]

my hatred for the NDP is >>>>>>>> than my concern for the HST lol.

I am on that boat too.

I am very pissed at the HST, but the NDP is just too nasty.

[quasi]

I am on that boat too.

I am very pissed at the HST, but the NDP is just too nasty.

X3

I'm not so much pro Liberal just anti NDP. Give me another alternative (the Greens don't count) and I'd consider voting for someone else.

[StylinRed]

why do you guys hate the ndp so passionately over the liberals oO

nutty :P (im expecting the usual responses but they don't seem adequate)

[sh0n]

Its a load of crap this HST

Its basically Gordo's big FU saying that we ain't making money with the Olympics and need to find a way to pay down that deficit.

HST to stimulate the economy and business to transfer savings to consumers? YEAH RIGHT!

When was the last time you heard businesses because of the competitive environment lowering their prices?

Do you think a Cactus club will lower their $15 dollar burger to $13 bucks because of all these savings from their tax incentives?

As a consumer when you are eating out you are paying right now the standard 5% tax + 10-15% tips = total 15-20%

Coming July 1, 2010 you're paying the extra 7. That's 22-27% extra on top of your meal. I know personally myself I will be cutting the eating out.

[hotjoint]

People will still eat out, they will just tip less. The people who "depend" on the tips in the end will get fucked :). I say just start taxing tips......

[StylinRed]

^^^ i hope this doesnt turn into a "they deserve tips, yes they do!, no they dont!"


oh and btw NO THEY DONT!

[MG1]

why do you guys hate the ndp so passionately over the liberals oO

nutty :P (im expecting the usual responses but they don't seem adequate)

I think people are basically sick and tired of their poor performance when in power. I grew up in East Van and just about everybody, including me, was an NDP supporter. Too many scandals, dumbass projects, and spending sprees. I no longer support them. They claim to be there for the lower income, the disadvantaged, the workers and shit, but they are in bed with the unions - unions don't give a shit about their members, just themselves.

The Liberals, on the other hand, are not any better - in bed with business and not caring about average Joe or the environment.

Most, if not all, politicians are crooks and liars. Either that or stupid and out of touch with reality. I guess it's hard to be in politics without losing focus. The games you have to play and the asses you have to kiss. Besides, if you tell the truth, you're fucked - nobody has the balls to tell the truth anyway. If a politician with any integrity ran for office, I'd be a staunch supporter no matter what party they ran for.

Chuck Cadman, RIP.

Gordo......... go to hell in an empty scotch bottle

[scheng924]

I think people are basically sick and tired of their poor performance when in power. I grew up in East Van and just about everybody, including me, was an NDP supporter. Too many scandals, dumbass projects, and spending sprees. I no longer support them. They claim to be there for the lower income, the disadvantaged, the workers and shit, but they are in bed with the unions - unions don't give a shit about their members, just themselves.

The Liberals, on the other hand, are not any better - in bed with business and not caring about average Joe or the environment.

Most, if not all, politicians are crooks and liars. Either that or stupid and out of touch with reality. I guess it's hard to be in politics without losing focus. The games you have to play and the asses you have to kiss. Besides, if you tell the truth, you're fucked - nobody has the balls to tell the truth anyway. If a politician with any integrity ran for office, I'd be a staunch supporter no matter what party they ran for.

Chuck Cadman, RIP.

Gordo......... go to hell in an empty scotch bottle

i totally agree with you on the NDP part.. but I find liberals are actually doing something about the environment... run of the river, carbon tax.. etc.. etc..

[orange7]

People will still eat out, they will just tip less. The people who "depend" on the tips in the end will get fucked :). I say just start taxing tips......


haha.. i think that is what i'm going to do when the hst gets introduced.

[StylinRed]

i totally agree with you on the NDP part.. but I find liberals are actually doing something about the environment... run of the river, carbon tax.. etc.. etc..

aren't the liberals selling our rivers off to private corps?


Scandals are a fact of every political party, personally i find the scandals behind the Liberals to be far worse than the NDP.

Having said that putting off the NDP completely over scandals when (imo) the Liberal scandals are far worse or, at the very least, equal to the NDP seems rather.... lame?

[MG1]

Having said that putting off the NDP completely over scandals when (imo) the Liberal scandals are far worse or, at the very least, equal to the NDP seems rather.... lame?

The difference is, the Liberals are good at hiding shit, while the NDP are just plain stupid. I think Gordo should have resigned over hte drinking incident, but his PR team got him out of hot water. Crocadile tears and drawing the father's drinking problem card, worked. He even had MADD convinced. If you or I got busted for DUI, we'd be in prison and raped repeatedly by some giant Hawaiian dudes.

I don't have the answer, but the NDP just look dumber when they get caught doing something wrong and people tend to remember their screw ups more.

[Great68]

not caring about average Joe or the environment.



But but but... Carbon Tax!

[MG1]

But but but... Carbon Tax!

:haha::haha::haha:

[scheng924]

aren't the liberals selling our rivers off to private corps?


Scandals are a fact of every political party, personally i find the scandals behind the Liberals to be far worse than the NDP.

Having said that putting off the NDP completely over scandals when (imo) the Liberal scandals are far worse or, at the very least, equal to the NDP seems rather.... lame?

sort of.... gordon campbell did set up the BCUC which is doing a great job in my opinion.. you know how they rejected some of the private run of the river proposal recently, turns out.. if they didn't, it would forced us to pay extra $$ to the private $$ for energy that would be sold to the US... so BCUC is actually doing something decent and was set up by liberals as a independent commission to monitor these things..

[Great68]

aren't the liberals selling our rivers off to private corps?


Scandals are a fact of every political party, personally i find the scandals behind the Liberals to be far worse than the NDP.

Having said that putting off the NDP completely over scandals when (imo) the Liberal scandals are far worse or, at the very least, equal to the NDP seems rather.... lame?

I agree.

I find it hilarious that a few years after the Liberals were in power, they wanted to privatize the Coquihalla.

Now just before the last election they removed the tolls altogether.

How convenient.

[68style]

But hey guys... didn't you watch the news last night? The forest industry stands to cut $140 million in costs per year from the HST! Yah that's right, the FOREST industry! You know... so why don't we chip in an extra 7% for food and houses and used cars so a bunch of fucking rednecks in shit-towns up north can cut down trees for a living and sell them to Americans!!! GREAT MOTIVATION!!!

Also the Maritimes did it YEARS ago and look how well they're doing!!!

Fucking awesome logic!

[SkinnyPupp]

Came across this video, but I am not sure where the original HST thread went. It might even be a repost...

Anyway, if you are ignorantly against the HST, you might want to watch the whole thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXu3LXNwEg

[orange7]

haha.. i think that is what i'm going to do when the hst gets introduced.


I failed. I am still tipping 10% in those regular joe restuarants.

[sulos]

But hey guys... didn't you watch the news last night? The forest industry stands to cut $140 million in costs per year from the HST! Yah that's right, the FOREST industry! You know... so why don't we chip in an extra 7% for food and houses and used cars so a bunch of fucking rednecks in shit-towns up north can cut down trees for a living and sell them to Americans!!! GREAT MOTIVATION!!!

Also the Maritimes did it YEARS ago and look how well they're doing!!!

Fucking awesome logic!

I am not from up north but not all of them are red necks. When you make blanket statements like that you take away from your point.

Moving onto your point, the forestry industry is a big industry for BC, is there a reason you don't want to support it? Those people buy goods and services that come from the big cities. Also, if you look at what the HST is being charged on then it doesn't make a large impact on the bottom line, it does help companies because that is an extra 7% profit that they get to keep. Think about the film industry in Vancouver for example. More studios are making movies here because we are more competitive, you get ride of the HST and we lose that money.
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[TheKingdom2000]

The HST hurts the low income families, while it saves business. Extra % on food is NOT cool.

You're obviously one of the misinformed. Go look at your superstore bill and see how much tax you pay.
There is no HST on food bro. That's only if you go out to eat.
And since low income families usually do not go out to eat it doesn't hurt them at all. In fact, it helps them. Because the extra revenue the HST is bringing in is helping to support all their grants/programs they take advantage of.


It would be so effing stupid to cut the HST now. The government would have to give back all that money collected and that will fuck more of the low income people as their programs would be cut to shit to make up for the loss of revenue.

[iEatClams]

even if prices go down for businesses, how often you see the savings passed on to the consumer?

HOW often you see price at retail go down.

when gas prices were crazy high last year, food prices went up,, and they stayed up, even though gas prices fell..

If theres a competitive market then the prices SHOULD go down. But not all markets are competitive enough.

For example, if store A can produce something cheaper and sell that certain item cheaper than store B. Then they would price it cheaper to get more customers and profit.

For certain companies that compete/rely on price, this will help consumers.

[Great68]

There is no HST on food bro. That's only if you go out to eat.


No, there is plenty of HST on food. Food that is classified as "Junk Food" or "Luxury Food" that is.

The problem is that the "Junk/Luxury food" designation is pretty arbitrary. Items are designated by some retard in a government office that usually doesn't have a clue, which is why things like Soy Milk get HST applied to them. Being lactose intolerant must be a luxury right?

[Mr.HappySilp]

No, there is plenty of HST on food. Food that is classified as "Junk Food" or "Luxury Food" that is.

The problem is that the "Junk/Luxury food" designation is pretty arbitrary. Items are designated by some retard in a government office that usually doesn't have a clue, which is why things like Soy Milk get HST applied to them. Being lactose intolerant must be a luxury right?

I am lactose intolerant and I drink regular milk just fine. Just don't drink cold milk or drink half a cup max every few hours. There are other ways around it then just getting Soy Milk.

Back on topic. I think is stupid and dumb to get rib off the HST now. The gov and business spend so much to convert the whole PST/GST system to HST and now if we were to convert it back to PST/GST is going to cost millions of dollars again which business might simply pass the cost down to us.

I feel unless you are in the low income family the gov will fuck you up either way.

[$_$]

i'm still not voting for them.

who DID you vote for then :troll:

[TheKingdom2000]

Hey guys, in regards to this HST in BC. If I have questions or concerns, who do I direct my email/mail to?

My local MLA or MP? I'm kinda confused on the whole hierarchy in the government, thanks.

[TheKingdom2000]

I am lactose intolerant and I drink regular milk just fine. Just don't drink cold milk or drink half a cup max every few hours. There are other ways around it then just getting Soy Milk.

Back on topic. I think is stupid and dumb to get rib off the HST now. The gov and business spend so much to convert the whole PST/GST system to HST and now if we were to convert it back to PST/GST is going to cost millions of dollars again which business might simply pass the cost down to us.

I feel unless you are in the low income family the gov will fuck you up either way.

Actually, it would cost over 1.6billion since we were given 1.6billion by the federal government to help smooth over the transition. If we get rid of the HST we have to pay that 1.6billion back, PLUS the millions to convert HST back to PST/GST.

On another note, I'm still choked that we can't get tax back from purchases in Washington. That would have been AWESOME! Those few months were most places were not charging tax to us was pretty sweet. Too bad I couldn't take part in that.

[Vansterdam]

you guys remember that "HST IS GOOD" commercial they played right after the canucks game? :troll:

[Hehe]

I, for one, fail to see an actual benefit of HST. The Liberals argues that it saves businesses money and the saving will pass onto consumers. The fact, from what I see and know is that restaurants now have less customers and as a service based economy, restaurants account a big portion of us.

My friend, who owns a restaurant says he lost about 10~15% of revenue every since HST introduction. He had to raise the wage for his waitresses because people tip less and there was very little incentive for them to stick to the job.

A couple of my favorite joints are hardly any better. Heck, even the McDonald close to my place seem to have less people whenever I drop by for my burger-fix. And are they really saving any money and passing the saving to consumers?! All I know is last time I went to McD, I spent $9.84 for something that was no more than $8 tax in before.

And some argues BC is still early on the HST to see any real benefits... I hardly see any of them on the provinces who adapted HST way back.

[Meowjin]

i will never read anything that mentions fraser institute.

[Meowjin]

yeah because passing on taxes to the ordinary citizens and the corporations ducking it is awesome.

[Great68]

I am lactose intolerant and I drink regular milk just fine. Just don't drink cold milk or drink half a cup max every few hours. There are other ways around it then just getting Soy Milk.


There's different severities of the disease.

Regardless, soy milk was just ONE example but thanks for missing the point.

If they want to make me happy with HST they should take it off ALL food, including restaurant meals.

[Ronin]

I'll need a heck of a lot more convincing to vote NDP. I don't see myself ever voting that way.

[RiceIntegraRS]

I think it would be a bad idea to get rid of HST now. Like others have said it would cost us millions of dollars to convert it back. Weve already have gotten used to the change. Plus I myself havent really been affected by it or even noticed it to be honest with you. The only time where i see HST is bad is when your making a major purchase on something like a car or a home. As of now theres more pros to keeping it than to getting rid of it. Even though we'll never get to see the savings ever.

When those big business owners are making there millions from HST its not like there gonna say, "u know what? fuck that vacation home in florida i always wanted and the executives in my company, im pass it onto the customers that i dont know and who will continue to buy my shit regardless if i give it to them or not"

[gars]

take a look at this article - it will basically give you an approximation on how much more or less you will spend because of HST. Things like buying a house, etc - you can see exactly how much more you might spend.

http://www.hstinbc.ca/media/ItsYour%20DecisionHSTGSTPST.pdf

It also labels out any benefits you will get through HST - explains a lot about how it works, etc.

[Mr.HappySilp]

There's different severities of the disease.

Regardless, soy milk was just ONE example but thanks for missing the point.

If they want to make me happy with HST they should take it off ALL food, including restaurant meals.

Don't be stupid even if they take HST off all food. Price of food, menu at restaurant is going to stay the same. There is always some excuse that company can come up to justify the cost.

[tool001]

too bad, hst came in when food prices were already on the rise due to shortage/and fuel cost increases. that were passed onto the consumer. Therefore will lead many to believe its due to HST.

thats said, i never saw prices going down after the first spike in fuel prices a few years back, when everybody raised prices. Cost of fuel went down. prices remained.

[gars]

A lot of the restaurants in town only make money on Alcohol anyways - and with HST - you actually save something like 5% tax on Alcohol. I don't see any restaurants commending that - and I know tons of people who easily drink as much as they eat every weekend.