Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why "shitty" cars are better cars... [Archive] - Page 2

Marco911

10-12-2014, 11:43 PM

Its no secret that I want a 911, and its even less of a secret that I own an m3, and love m3s, but if you think an m3 isn't in the same league as a 911 of the same vintage (and of course obvious trim levels like turbos, gt cars excluded) around a track, you just haven't read anything about cars in the last 25 years. I'm not talking a gt3 RS against an e30 m3 here. I'm talking about taking an f80 m3 out against a 991 Carrera and the times, fun, and feel are going to be pretty fucking comparable. Also, both the times cited were by the same professional driver, in the same conditions.

I disagree. BMW has lost a lot of my respect over the last 20 years. There is so much cost-cutting that the cars have lost a lot of their character. BMWs are a lot more about marketing hype than substance today. 3-Series, Audi A4, C-class they all drive the same, with dead steering and over excited electronic nannies that intervene early to reign in the fun.

The 911 is an iconic sports car and Porsche knows that they have to respect tradition with each new model. When moving to electric steering, they spent a lot of time to develop their own system because they know that the 911 is the benchmark for steering feel and the other electric steering systems used by BMW et al are crap.

With regards to performance numbers and times:
The '14 BMW M4 ring time is: 7:52s
The 991 Carrera S time is: 7:37.90s and it has 30 hp less than the M4.

That's a significantly better time, and you better bet you can feel that difference when you drive the cars.

Fact of the matter is that you can't take a mainstream car like the 3-Series and expect it to perform or feel like a car that has been engineered from the ground-up as a sports car.

Lomac

10-13-2014, 12:14 AM

Fact of the matter is that you can't take a mainstream car like the 3-Series and expect it to perform or feel like a car that has been engineered from the ground-up as a sports car.

As much as I hate to admit it, he does have a point here.

boostfever

10-13-2014, 12:27 AM

need more popcorn... :joy:

sdubfid

10-13-2014, 12:36 AM

"You can certainly feel the firmness of the chassis, and the weight balance through corners and the feel of the road that is transmitted through the seats and steering to your butt and shoulder blades. That requires a tremendous amount of engineering know-how to transmit effectively."

sounds like an accurate description of a horse and buggy

Rich Sandor

10-13-2014, 12:55 AM

I think the only thing to take away from this thread is:

TO EACH, HIS OWN.

A GT3 is a car built with a very specific customer in mind and Jason seems happy to admit he may not be that customer despite having bought one - that should not take away from any of the awesomeness that is a GT3, and certainly does not mean 'shitty cars are better'

Gerbs

10-13-2014, 02:39 AM

:okay:

I feel so poor LOL

When I grow up I want to be jasonturbo :concentrate:

SkinnyPupp

10-13-2014, 02:39 AM

RevYouUp

10-13-2014, 03:23 AM

Love how the itr is still being compared with modern high powered rwd cars. The car is almost 20 years old, and it's still amazing :thumbsup:

jasonturbo

10-13-2014, 07:14 AM

http://www.dpccars.com/gallery/var/albums/Porsche-Memes/Porsche%20Meme%20-%2019.gif?m=1388434828

Such a wonderful thread, went from discussing how more attainable vehicles can be just as much, if not more fun on the street than expensive cars... To arguing about ring lap times and the best chassis etc.

Marco911

10-13-2014, 07:26 AM

Such a wonderful thread, went from discussing how more attainable vehicles can be just as much, if not more fun on the street than expensive cars... To arguing about ring lap times and the best chassis etc.

You guys are entitled to your own opinions, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. ;)

Z3guy

10-13-2014, 08:17 AM

I have tracked my 911 ;) And yes, you can appreciate the car's limits on the streets, when you drive outside of the confines of the law. Thanks for playing.

Officer's, we have a bad ass and rebel here! haha. You just proved again you are speaking out of your ass, I don't care you drive "outside the confines of the law", you still cannot push your car to the limit on the street.

Marco911

10-13-2014, 08:53 AM

Officer's, we have a bad ass and rebel here! haha. You just proved again you are speaking out of your ass, I don't care you drive "outside the confines of the law", you still cannot push your car to the limit on the street.

Is that why you traded your GT3 for the poseur AMV8?

Yes, I have pushed my 911 hard enough to explore its vast capabilities.

Z3guy

10-13-2014, 09:03 AM

yep, I am poseur driving my AMV8 and loving it. Why don't you grow some balls and come out to a Revscene meet and say the same things you do on Revscene? I forgot you like to hide behind your keyboard.

westopher

10-13-2014, 09:20 AM

Z3guy

10-13-2014, 09:27 AM

^ that is an awesome picture you presented of Marco....lol!

I have been fortunate to have owned many kool cars, but, the one that I still admire the most.....1992 E36 318is....the car was slow as heck, but I had a Racing Dynamics body kit and 17inch Racing Dynamic wheels, loved loved that thing! plus I was 22yrs old at the time. Hindsight being 20/20, being young, carefree and having a kool car was a great experience I will always cherish.......

multicartual

10-13-2014, 09:41 AM

My car started as a 1992 318is... now it has a 328i 3.91 LSD and a 5.0 :)

Z3guy

10-13-2014, 09:42 AM

^ that's why I really like your car, mine was red too!:hotbaby:

ae101

10-13-2014, 09:03 PM

has anyone every seen marcos 911 before?

where the ferrari & lambo guys, y are they not in posting in this thread :troll: (i remember theres an rs member here with a ferrari, i just dont remember this user name)

Gucci Mane

10-13-2014, 09:37 PM

ws6ta has a f430. he hardly ever posts though..

Marco911

10-13-2014, 10:01 PM

knight604

10-13-2014, 10:03 PM

shots fired . ready the track

Gucci Mane

10-13-2014, 10:13 PM

Which one? I own a couple.

pics?

Happy

10-13-2014, 10:24 PM

An e46 M3 CSL put a second faster time at the ring than a 2009 carrera S. Sorry.

E46 CSLs were so ahead of it's time. If i had one of those in 2003.. :sweetjesus:

Well I'd be a 12 year old with a CSL but still you get the point lol

Mr.Money

10-13-2014, 10:29 PM

maybe the Pissing contest begin.

Marco911

10-13-2014, 11:30 PM

Lol I wish I could "Pose" in an AMV8. Z3guy has had cars many of us would dream of owning and still speaks like an enthusiast about hundreds of different cars, like any REAL car enthusiast does. Marco seems like the kind of guy that makes sure the cuff of his ill fitting suit is rolled up so everyone can see his gold (plated) tag hanging out his window and Jlo glasses in the rearview, while he punches it from 30 to 80 and back to 30 down robson street.

Sorry. You're the one that's delusional enough to think that an M3 is in the same performance league as a 911. The M3 is an inferior car. The numbers bear this out. The driving experience isn't even comparable.

And your characterisation of me is way off the mark. ;)

Energy

10-13-2014, 11:37 PM

Marco is being overly aggressive when pushing for the 911 vs M3 but he does have a point.

Marco911

10-14-2014, 12:09 AM

The ///M is just (M)arketing. What has become of the formula for raw, lightweight, high-revving naturally aspirated cars?

Piped in engine noises through the stereo? Forced induction? Electric steering like on a Lexus?

Yuck.

I think the 911 is the only mass produced car that is able to offer an authentic sports car driving experience that cannot be matched unless you move to an exotic.

This is an article that summarises everything that is wrong with ///M cars today: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/10-things-you-need-to-know-2014-bmw-m235i

radioman

10-14-2014, 12:39 AM

Man I want a cayman but I don't want to become 'that guy'.

By 'that guy' I mean Marco911

Marco911

10-14-2014, 01:37 AM

Man I want a cayman but I don't want to become 'that guy'.

By 'that guy' I mean Marco911

Don't worry, a Cayman won't get you into the club. It's 911 or bust. :noyoudidnt:

jakers

10-14-2014, 01:49 AM

Don't worry, a Cayman won't get you into the club. It's 911 or bust. :noyoudidnt:

#rekt

radioman

10-14-2014, 08:08 AM

Don't worry, a Cayman won't get you into the club. It's 911 or bust. :noyoudidnt:

But if Joey Tribbiani could become that guy with some boxes and a car cover I could be that guy with a cayman! I BELIEVE!!

Marco911

10-14-2014, 09:16 AM

Here's a great read from an owner of both the F80 M3 and the 991 C2S.

My Comparison of the 991 911 vs. F80 M3 - Rennlist Discussion Forums (http://rennlist.com/forums/991/838092-my-comparison-of-the-991-911-vs-f80-m3.html)

knight604

10-14-2014, 09:31 AM

It's too bad M division is not what it used to be, marco has that point dead on.

Z3guy

10-14-2014, 09:37 AM

Sorry. You're the one that's delusional enough to think that an M3 is in the same performance league as a 911. The M3 is an inferior car. The numbers bear this out. The driving experience isn't even comparable.

And your characterisation of me is way off the mark. ;)

The 991 is a different car now due to the extra 4 inches of wheelbase. However, for the regular novice driver who goes to the track occassionally, most can extract more performance from the M3 due to how predictable the car reacts. Sure the pro driver can get more performance from a 997, no argument here, but for most drivers, you won't be able to extract max performance from a 997.

Marco, you are great at pulling up stats, but from your comments, you have little real world track driving experiences, hence you speak out of your ass.

Z3guy

10-14-2014, 09:41 AM

Don't worry, a Cayman won't get you into the club. It's 911 or bust. :noyoudidnt:

really now? why do you think Porsche never puts in a 3.8L in the Cayman? because it would destroy a 911. Why don't you ask Hans Stuck which car is superior on the track?

why do you think Porsche moved the engine forward and extended the wheelbase 4 inches??????

freakshow

10-14-2014, 10:32 AM

Marco is just trolling you guys like alphaspec1mendouchebag.. Marco just has better english. And better cars.

dared3vil0

10-14-2014, 11:21 AM

Interesting read on the subject of fast vs. slow cars from Jalopnik;

Fastest Or Slowest Ford Fiesta: Which Is More Fun? (http://jalopnik.com/fastest-or-slowest-ford-fiesta-which-is-more-fun-1620682343)

Excerpt:

The idea behind "slow car fast" is that on the highways and byways, today's modern sports cars are just too fast to be fun. Driving them slowly is boring, but driving them near the limit means you're going about a million miles per hour. If something goes wrong, you're at risk for some very serious injury. There's also the factor of inviting a ton of tickets.

But driving a slow car "fast" doesn't require that you actually go fast. It's the idea that even at legal speeds, you're having a hoot. Going 60 in a McLaren 650S around some corners feels like nothing. Going 60 around certain corners in a Ford Fiesta 1.0 feels like your Alain Prost on the edge of control. You might not set fast time of the day from Chili's to the post office, but you'll have more fun getting there.

originalhypa

10-14-2014, 01:37 PM

Marco is just trolling you guys like alphaspec1mendouchebag.. Marco just has better english. And better cars.

When I read Westopher's reply to him I thought it was me posting it, and that it was 2005 again.
Trolling Marco was cool back when Missy Elliot had a green Lambo with spinners. At a time when Subaru was still just thinking about releasing a 2 door hatch. Back when the thought of a GT-R beating a Porsche was only in Timpo's wet dreams. Back when stance wasn't even a dirty thought.

You guys must be new to Marco.
:woot2:

multicartual

10-14-2014, 02:07 PM

This thread is getting close to legendary status

GLOW

10-14-2014, 02:23 PM

This thread is getting close to legendary status

i hope you're not lactose intollerant

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ndxlRUkz1r5a2sv.gif

m_coupe

10-14-2014, 05:32 PM

Don't worry, a Cayman won't get you into the club. It's 911 or bust. :noyoudidnt:

I thought the cayman with its mid engine was the superior chassis for the track compared to the 911?

The cayman is also lighter, smaller, shorter and has better weight distribution than its big brother the 911.

If porsche stuck the 3.8L from the GT3 into the cayman would it not manhandle its own 911 around a track?

Marco911

10-14-2014, 05:56 PM

The 991 is a different car now due to the extra 4 inches of wheelbase. However, for the regular novice driver who goes to the track occassionally, most can extract more performance from the M3 due to how predictable the car reacts. Sure the pro driver can get more performance from a 997, no argument here, but for most drivers, you won't be able to extract max performance from a 997.

Marco, you are great at pulling up stats, but from your comments, you have little real world track driving experiences, hence you speak out of your ass.

For the novice driver, one can extract more performance out of a Ford Fiesta then an M3. You see, I can "talk out of my ass" too if I don't have to back any of my statements up.

A pro driver can extract more performance out of *any* car vs. a novice driver.
I totally disagree that a novice driver can extract more performance out of an (E90?) M3 than a 997. 997s are very easy to drive and controllable at its limits, which will make a novice feel like a PRO. It has a lower center of gravity, a stiffer platform and you can carve it around a track like a scalpel. The M3's electronic nannies reign in the fun much, much sooner, while PSM lets you slide the car by up to 6 degrees before it will intervene (and hold your slide!)

Marco911

10-14-2014, 05:58 PM

really now? why do you think Porsche never puts in a 3.8L in the Cayman? because it would destroy a 911. Why don't you ask Hans Stuck which car is superior on the track?

why do you think Porsche moved the engine forward and extended the wheelbase 4 inches??????

The car that is superior on the track gets the better time. Other than autocrosses/slaloms, the 911 will beat the Cayman. ;)

multicartual

10-14-2014, 07:44 PM

Marco's use of emoticons is impeccable

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 06:39 AM

For the novice driver, one can extract more performance out of a Ford Fiesta then an M3. You see, I can "talk out of my ass" too if I don't have to back any of my statements up.

A pro driver can extract more performance out of *any* car vs. a novice driver.
I totally disagree that a novice driver can extract more performance out of an (E90?) M3 than a 997. 997s are very easy to drive and controllable at its limits, which will make a novice feel like a PRO. It has a lower center of gravity, a stiffer platform and you can carve it around a track like a scalpel. The M3's electronic nannies reign in the fun much, much sooner, while PSM lets you slide the car by up to 6 degrees before it will intervene (and hold your slide!)

Thank you Captain Obvious. Again, you are speaking out of your ass, have you even driven a F80 M3? Thanks for posting more stats you pulled off some car website.

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 06:41 AM

The car that is superior on the track gets the better time. Other than autocrosses/slaloms, the 911 will beat the Cayman. ;)

Why don't you respond to my question about why Porsche doesn't put the big engine in the Cayman? Also, since you are so good as pulling stats, why don't you google search Hans Stuck Cayman Vs 991?

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 06:48 AM

I thought the cayman with its mid engine was the superior chassis for the track compared to the 911?

The cayman is also lighter, smaller, shorter and has better weight distribution than its big brother the 911.

If porsche stuck the 3.8L from the GT3 into the cayman would it not manhandle its own 911 around a track?

The answer is yes. The reason Porsche (or VW now haha!) doesn't put the big Carrera engine in the 991 is because VW makes allot more money on the 991 Vs Cayman.

Porsche or it's parent VW cares more about making money than providing the best driving experiences to their loyal fans.....

Happy

10-15-2014, 07:54 AM

Marco's use of emoticons is impeccable

I can't hear what you're saying with Marcos dick all up in your mouth

originalhypa

10-15-2014, 08:05 AM

If porsche stuck the 3.8L from the GT3 into the cayman would it not manhandle its own 911 around a track?

Didn't someone do this at one time?
They dropped the big boy Porsche motor into the Cayman (or boxster, can't remember) and it killed the 911 on the track.

It may have just happened in my mind, but I still believe that the MR platform is better than the RR platform. Haven't 911's killed enough of our celebrities? When will we learn?

:heckno:

because VW makes allot more money on the 991 Vs Cayman.

ALLOT.
ALLOT.
ALLOT.

ALLOT.

I can't hear what you're saying with Marcos dick all up in your mouth

You should check out multicartual's website, marcosdickinmymouth.com

It's mostly pictures of his 318Mustang project though.

:spamarama:

GLOW

10-15-2014, 08:06 AM

you might have just given multi an idea for his website :troll:

trollguy

10-15-2014, 08:48 AM

i went to marcosdickinmymouth.com and did not find pics of 318Mustang.

i want my money back

originalhypa

10-15-2014, 10:19 AM

Two snaps, and a gif for my homie slowguy.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/439265/2-snaps-and-a-rewind-o.gif

Hey, lookie here?
A jalopnik article from May that says Porsche will be making the Cayman GT4, aka the 911 beater.

Porsche Cayman GT4 Will Be The Mid-Engined 911-Ruiner You Want And Need (http://jalopnik.com/porsche-cayman-gt4-will-be-the-mid-engined-911-ruiner-y-1573124619)

:eek:

heleu

10-15-2014, 12:18 PM

The answer is yes. The reason Porsche (or VW now haha!) doesn't put the big Carrera engine in the 991 is because VW makes allot more money on the 991 Vs Cayman.

Porsche or it's parent VW cares more about making money than providing the best driving experiences to their loyal fans.....

+1. Porsche is a marketing genius. With the same chassis, they've made 20 different models. Even the Cayman is based on the last gen 911. I'm sure it doesn't cost Porsche double a base 911 for the price of GT3.

Anyways, back on topic, this isn't a M3 vs 911 debate; I agree with Jason's original post that driving a slow car fast is at least equally entertaining. I've driven a E92 M3 and there was just nowhere to open it up and rip...at least in the lower mainland. My old MR2, you could floor and not get into too much trouble.

bcrdukes

10-15-2014, 04:28 PM

Didn't someone do this at one time?
They dropped the big boy Porsche motor into the Cayman (or boxster, can't remember) and it killed the 911 on the track.

Not a GT3 but this guy put in an LS3 into his 996.
My LS3 Conversion Videos - Rennlist Discussion Forums (http://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/838615-my-ls3-conversion-videos.html)

underscore

10-15-2014, 04:38 PM

I disagree. BMW has lost a lot of my respect over the last 20 years. There is so much cost-cutting that the cars have lost a lot of their character. BMWs are a lot more about marketing hype than substance today. 3-Series, Audi A4, C-class they all drive the same, with dead steering and over excited electronic nannies that intervene early to reign in the fun.

As opposed to modern Porsches which are frequently being sold by enthusiasts so they can be replaced by older, rawer cars?

With regards to performance numbers and times:
The '14 BMW M4 ring time is: 7:52s
The 991 Carrera S time is: 7:37.90s and it has 30 hp less than the M4.

That's a significantly better time, and you better bet you can feel that difference when you drive the cars.

That's only 3.2% slower in the hands of a professional driver on a race track, that's not significant at all. And in the hands of a non-professional (ie the people who actually buy them) the ability to feel the difference would be negligible at best.

Fact of the matter is that you can't take a mainstream car like the 3-Series and expect it to perform or feel like a car that has been engineered from the ground-up as a sports car.

The car that's had the engine hanging out the ass for who knows how long?

The answer is yes. The reason Porsche (or VW now haha!) doesn't put the big Carrera engine in the 991 is because VW makes allot more money on the 991 Vs Cayman.

Porsche or it's parent VW cares more about making money than providing the best driving experiences to their loyal fans.....

Probably because the majority of the people that can afford these high end cars aren't enthusiasts, they just buy them as a status symbol.

+1. Porsche is a marketing genius. With the same chassis, they've made 20 different models. Even the Cayman is based on the last gen 911. I'm sure it doesn't cost Porsche double a base 911 for the price of GT3.

Porsche is the iphone of the car world. Take the exact same thing you had before, tweak it just a tad, and sell it to fans for exorbitant prices.

17sd

10-15-2014, 04:44 PM

God uses his gt3 to get groceries because he doesn't want to take the chance of his e30 m3 getting a door ding.

:fuckyea:

LemonT

10-15-2014, 05:01 PM

http://youtu.be/scXXhmknySA

multicartual

10-15-2014, 05:55 PM

BMW M4 vs Porsche 911 Carrera | evo TRACK BATTLE - YouTube (http://youtu.be/scXXhmknySA)

I like the video but cars have now turned into which pretentious douchebag can spend the most money on a car they've never changed the oil on or even know anything really about

This is just dick-swinging, plain and simple. Both are incredible cars that 99.9% of all consumers will never ever even get close to 9/10ths of the performance available

Fuck cars are just getting stupid. How many cars now have piped-in engine sounds?

I'm sure Marco is probably right, the 911 is probably one of the most refined pure sports car there is. At this point though it doesn't fucking matter because our roads, our laws, and our ability to get a chance to really enjoy a car that would put most people in the poor house if they wrote it off on a track day is just retarded.

Maybe I'm just a bitter Vancouverite that heard about some dude dying in Oppenheimer park while noticing how many countless dozens and dozens of houses are empty in my girlfriend's hood; Dunbar. Countless fucking houses empty! If you don't believe me go and check it out yourself. I bet halloween is going to be totally quiet when I spend the night there because there are SO many empty homes.

At the same time, if you got money spend it homey because he who dies with the most toys, wins!

AzNightmare

10-15-2014, 06:59 PM

Almost thought about getting a FRS... But after reading through this thread. Decided nope. Way too much power and torque.

I like to feel like I'm pushing my car to the edge through the turns, where I need to shift my ass on my seat before hitting a corner in anticipation to counter the upcoming g-force instead of relying on bolstered seats.

I love down shifting on the highways to feel that sudden power to pass a Corolla and such. Then they catch up but can't pass cause I'm blocking them (unless they change lanes). My car is so quiet even at red line. Like anti-police even when I'm driving it hard. This thread hit the nail on the head.

Better to have a slow car where you can drive it fast and not attract attention.
:alonehappy::joy:

E-SPEC

10-15-2014, 08:20 PM

Didn't Marco911 and Si Ed have a one night stand a long time ago? It was mentioned in some thread back then.

LP700-4

10-15-2014, 08:31 PM

Almost thought about getting a FRS... But after reading through this thread. Decided nope. Way too much power and torque.

Not sure if srs :suspicious:

FRS and power and torque cannot be used in the same sentence.

Marco911

10-15-2014, 09:38 PM

Thank you Captain Obvious. Again, you are speaking out of your ass, have you even driven a F80 M3? Thanks for posting more stats you pulled off some car website.

You're the one speaking out of your ass! Did you watch the video LemonT posted? It confirms the points I have made. Look at how many steering corrections the M4 driver has to make vs. the 911. I know BMWs do not perform or have as much sensory feedback as Porsche 911s. The Porsche 911 is a superior machine <period> :grinno:

AzNightmare

10-15-2014, 09:39 PM

Sorry, I got mixed up. I meant the BRZ. The Aozora Edition.

:badpokerface:

Not sure if srs :suspicious:

FRS and power and torque cannot be used in the same sentence.

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 09:43 PM

^aka no I have not! Lol! So all your opinions about the f80 m3 is from what you read. I will remember to take your POV seriously....:hotbaby:

ae101

10-15-2014, 09:44 PM

was gonna get a new 911, but after reading marcos posts i have decided not as he give porsche owners a bad rep

oh BTW i was talking about autoarts 911 :troll:

Marco911

10-15-2014, 09:48 PM

Didn't Marco911 and Si Ed have a one night stand a long time ago? It was mentioned in some thread back then.

No, it was another RS member.

Marco911

10-15-2014, 09:50 PM

was gonna get a new 911, but after reading marcos posts i have decided not as he give porsche owners a bad rep

oh BTW i was talking about autoarts 911 :troll:

Your lack of attention to detail gives humanity a bad rep.:hotbaby:

Marco911

10-15-2014, 09:53 PM

Why don't you respond to my question about why Porsche doesn't put the big engine in the Cayman? Also, since you are so good as pulling stats, why don't you google search Hans Stuck Cayman Vs 991?

We could play the hypothetical game all day long. Fact of the matter is the 911 has always performed better than Caymans. :jiggy:

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 09:55 PM

You're the one speaking out of your ass! Did you watch the video LemonT posted? It confirms the points I have made. Look at how many steering corrections the M4 driver has to make vs. the 911. I know BMWs do not perform or have as much sensory feedback as Porsche 911s. The Porsche 911 is a superior machine <period> :grinno:

Wow, you can watch a video, I am impressed. I don't think anyone is disputing the 991 is a superior performance car vs f80 m3. What is laughable is that you have never driven a f80 m3 and give feedback from only what you have seen or read. That is the equivalent of watching Paris Hilton's sex tape and telling us how great of a blowjob she gives lol!! :hotbaby:

dared3vil0

10-15-2014, 09:55 PM

We could play the hypothetical game all day long. Fact of the matter is the 911 has always performed better than Caymans. :jiggy:

2015 Porsche Cayman GTS Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-porsche-cayman-gts-photos-and-info-news)

2015 Porsche Cayman GTS: 911 Performance for $10K Less

Marco911

10-15-2014, 09:58 PM

+1. I agree with Jason's original post that driving a slow car fast is at least equally entertaining. I've driven a E92 M3 and there was just nowhere to open it up and rip...at least in the lower mainland. My old MR2, you could floor and not get into too much trouble.

Actually, your old MR2 was notorious for snap-oversteer. That could be fun I guess.

Fast cars vs. slow cars are a different kind of entertaining. At least in a Porsche you get great sounds, great feedback, great looks, great (leather) smells and great G-force sensations. Even in lesser cars, you have to break the law in order to get to the edge of the performance envelope.

Z3guy

10-15-2014, 10:01 PM

We could play the hypothetical game all day long. Fact of the matter is the 911 has always performed better than Caymans. :jiggy:

Where did you read that Marco? Hahaha!

Marco911

10-15-2014, 10:12 PM

^aka no I have not! Lol! So all your opinions about the f80 m3 is from what you read. I will remember to take your POV seriously....:hotbaby:

So rather than dispute my argument with points/references of your own, you use a non-sequitur? I suggest you look that term up. :toot:

I doubt driving an f80 M3 would make me change any of the points I made on it vs. the 911. ;)

Marco911

10-15-2014, 10:18 PM

As opposed to modern Porsches which are frequently being sold by enthusiasts so they can be replaced by older, rawer cars?

That's only 3.2% slower in the hands of a professional driver on a race track, that's not significant at all. And in the hands of a non-professional (ie the people who actually buy them) the ability to feel the difference would be negligible at best.

You would need to have a severe spinal injury not to be able to feel the difference between driving a 911 and an M3. They are very different cars.

The car that's had the engine hanging out the ass for who knows how long?

There's nothing wrong with thrusting from the back. :ratedb:

Probably because the majority of the people that can afford these high end cars aren't enthusiasts, they just buy them as a status symbol.

That describes BMW drivers more than Porsche 911 drivers. You still have to give up a lot of practicality to have a 911, and they are expensive!

Porsche is the iphone of the car world. Take the exact same thing you had before, tweak it just a tad, and sell it to fans for exorbitant prices.
Hmm, I guess that analogy fits.

Marco911

10-15-2014, 10:24 PM

Wow, you can watch a video, I am impressed. I don't think anyone is disputing the 991 is a superior performance car vs f80 m3.

Actually, you and Westopher were. I'm still waiting for references that a novice driver can extract more performance out of an M3 than out of a 911.

What is laughable is that you have never driven a f80 m3 and give feedback from only what you have seen or read. That is the equivalent of watching Paris Hilton's sex tape and telling us how great of a blowjob she gives lol!! :hotbaby:

No, it's more like you arguing that global warming doesn't exist because you experienced more snow and colder temperatures in your back yard. You've ignored the large body of evidence that suggests otherwise. ;)

westopher

10-15-2014, 11:52 PM

Marco911

10-16-2014, 03:34 AM

I never said the m3 was a better car than a 911 nor did z3guy, I merely said they were comparable. I know a 911 is going to provide a better driving experience, however it's not exactly worlds apart like you seem to believe not is it necessarily worth 1.6x the price depending on your finances.

You said they had comparable performance on a track.

The 911 is a sports car. The NSX is a sports car. The LS-F is a sports car. The M3 is a sporty car. The G37 is a sporty car. They are not comparable.

The M3 should be compared to the C63, IS-F, and Cadillac CTS-V, Audi RS5.

The 911 is a purebred, not a souped-up family car.

dared3vil0

10-16-2014, 07:24 AM

You said they had comparable performance on a track.

The 911 is a sports car. The NSX is a sports car. The LS-F is a sports car. The M3 is a sporty car. The G37 is a sporty car. They are not comparable.

The M3 should be compared to the C63, IS-F, and Cadillac CTS-V, Audi RS5.

The 911 is a purebred, not a souped-up family car.

What the hell are you smoking to put an ISF (assuming you meant ISF as wtf is LSF?) in the same category as a 911 and an NSX, then think an M3 is in the same category as a G37? :derp:

underscore

10-16-2014, 08:26 AM

The gap between a 3 series and an M3 is much larger than the gap between an ISxxx and an ISF.

You said they had comparable performance on a track.

How much closer do they have to be to call them comparable? <4% difference in lap time is pretty damn close.

The 911 is a purebred, not a souped-up family car.

Did you get that from the brochure?

SumAznGuy

10-16-2014, 09:04 AM

What the hell are you smoking to put an ISF (assuming you meant ISF as wtf is LSF?) in the same category as a 911 and an NSX, then think an M3 is in the same category as a G37? :derp:

I'm guessing Marco924 meant LFA as being a superduper car.

hud 91gt

10-16-2014, 09:57 AM

The 911 is a purebred, not a souped-up family car.

Is that why they market it as a car for dropping off the kids at school, going skiing or for the performance enthusiast? Kind of like what an M3 is marketed as?

God, why am I getting sucked into this shit?

Marco911

10-16-2014, 02:00 PM

Is that why they market it as a car for dropping off the kids at school, going skiing or for the performance enthusiast? Kind of like what an M3 is marketed as?

God, why am I getting sucked into this shit?

You must be confusing the 911 for a Panemara. The 911 has always been for real men like me.

white rocket

10-16-2014, 02:25 PM

Guess I'll feed the troll

Carjam: New Porsche 911 School Bus. Engineered for Magic. Every day. 2011 - YouTube

That don't look like a Panamera to me. :shrug:

I was waiting for the "Porsche: for real men like me" slogan but alas, they must have cut that part of ad out.

Marco911

10-16-2014, 02:56 PM

Marco911

10-16-2014, 03:17 PM

JThe gap between a 3 series and an M3 is much larger than the gap between an ISxxx and an ISF.

How much closer do they have to be to call them comparable? <4% difference in lap time is pretty damn close.

Did you get that from the brochure?

The M3 is dead to me. Engine noises through the stereo and dead steering. A driver's car is supposed to be about the communication between the driver and the road. If you have the chance to own a 911, I can't see why anyone would consider the M3. The M3 isn't in the same league as the 911 but I understand why BMW fan boys would want to compare them.

Regarding your point about 3% difference - when time on the Nurburgring is measured down to the 100th millisecond, a 14s gap means that the 911 delivered an ass spanking to the m4.

underscore

10-16-2014, 04:17 PM

Regarding your point about 3% difference - when time on the Nurburgring is measured down to the 100th millisecond, a 14s gap means that the 911 delivered an ass spanking to the m4.

:facepalm:

It doesn't matter what accuracy it's measured to, 14s is only 3.2% (or 3.20000000% if that helps you) and no matter how you cut it that is not a significant amount of difference. Especially when you're paying 160% (or 160.00000000%) more for that 3.2%.

If you are worried about that 3.2% though, the Corvette C6 Z06 posted a 7:22.68, a gap of more than 15s over the 911 at only 68% of the cost, and it's definitely a "purebred" car, not one built up from a "normal" car (since that seems to concern you so much).

multicartual

10-16-2014, 05:27 PM

Even in lesser cars, you have to break the law in order to get to the edge of the performance envelope.

Slower cars can feel more dangerous and provide more thrills at a lower speed

multicartual

10-16-2014, 05:29 PM

Terrible ad. The ad company probably looked at the 911 demographic which I would say is about 90% men and thought they could sell more of them if they market towards women. Most of the ads now are targeted toward their core owners.

How the fuck did that ad get approved? Seriously that was slightly less bizzare than showing a bunch of chicks sitting around in evening gowns talking about motor oils and their favorite pale ale

Marco911

10-16-2014, 07:12 PM

:facepalm:

It doesn't matter what accuracy it's measured to, 14s is only 3.2% (or 3.20000000% if that helps you) and no matter how you cut it that is not a significant amount of difference. Especially when you're paying 160% (or 160.00000000%) more for that 3.2%.

If you are worried about that 3.2% though, the Corvette C6 Z06 posted a 7:22.68, a gap of more than 15s over the 911 at only 68% of the cost, and it's definitely a "purebred" car, not one built up from a "normal" car (since that seems to concern you so much).

Wow, you guys don't know much about motor sports do you? Every millisecond counts. A 14 second difference is a trouncing. As far as the Z06, it's a cool race car but still not the refined precise machine that is the 911. The professionals who work in the automotive world know this. 2 of the top gear presenters have 911s as their personal car.

dared3vil0

10-16-2014, 07:21 PM

^ So if a 14 second difference is a trouncing, i guess that Z06 walked the fuck over that 911 eh?

jasonturbo

10-16-2014, 07:40 PM

This purpose of this thread was to discuss how high performance cars are difficult to enjoy on the street, not to discuss how high performance cars perform on a race track...

Clearly I did not title this thread correctly, and my OP was off topic, please excuse my ignorance.

PS: I like the fucking "school bus" Porsche commercial.

Marco911

10-16-2014, 09:25 PM

^ So if a 14 second difference is a trouncing, i guess that Z06 walked the fuck over that 911 eh?

Yeah the Z06 performs better on the track than regular Carreras due primarily to a better hp/weight ratio but 911s are still better driver's cars.

hud 91gt

10-16-2014, 09:30 PM

Yeah the Z06 performs better on the track than regular Carreras due primarily to a better hp/weight ratio but 911s are still better driver's cars.

Hmmm… Isn't that why Carrera's are faster then Caymans? If your going to argue, don't contradict yourself. Much to learn young troll.

jasonturbo

10-16-2014, 09:32 PM

...but 911s are still better driver's cars.

Strange, I could swear you were just dismissing the arguments of others who elected to provide opinions rather than "facts"... I suppose opinions in line with your thinking are basically facts in Marcoland?

... Having said that, I do agree with your opinion in this matter, 911>Vette for driving experience.

noclue

10-16-2014, 09:36 PM

Marco911 doesn't have enough hair on his back or drink budweisers to fathom driving a corvette.

911 is the complete package, have you seen a C6 corvette interior?

I approve of the C7 however.

JD¹³

10-16-2014, 09:48 PM

This thread reminds me of the last time Marco911 got his ass handed to him: http://www.revscene.net/forums/635198-who-has-quickest-car-rs.html

Que RangeRover's cleavage.....

By the way Marco your beloved 911 got absolutely destroyed at the Nurburgring, a track in Porsche's own backyard, by a cheap CHEVY!?!?

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/Lr/tumblr_ncfookKL7D1tlgt1ro2_500.gif
http://i.imgur.com/5BBWoGt.gif

Marco911

10-16-2014, 10:22 PM

Hmmm… Isn't that why Carrera's are faster then Caymans? If your going to argue, don't contradict yourself. Much to learn young troll.

Carreras are faster than Caymans and arguably better driver's cars too. How am I a troll? Unlike Z3Guy et al, I actually reference my points from credible sources. Z3Guy makes up his own reality such as "an amateur can extract more performance out of an M3 than a 997."

Marco911

10-16-2014, 10:25 PM

Strange, I could swear you were just dismissing the arguments of others who elected to provide opinions rather than "facts"... I suppose opinions in line with your thinking are basically facts in Marcoland?

... Having said that, I do agree with your opinion in this matter, 911>Vette for driving experience.

If my opinion is supported by professional reviewers and statistics, then it is likely worth a lot more than someone who pulls opinions out of their ass (Z3Guy) and is unable to back it up when asked to show references.

Marco911

10-16-2014, 10:30 PM

This thread reminds me of the last time Marco911 got his ass handed to him: http://www.revscene.net/forums/635198-who-has-quickest-car-rs.html

Que RangeRover's cleavage.....

I have never got "my ass handed to me."

If you disagree with me, I am right and you are wrong.

By the way Marco your beloved 911 got absolutely destroyed at the Nurburgring, a track in Porsche's own backyard, by a cheap CHEVY!?!?

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/Lr/tumblr_ncfookKL7D1tlgt1ro2_500.gif
http://i.imgur.com/5BBWoGt.gif

Yes, it did. The Z06 is much more purpose-built for quick lap times than a 911, which can be a civilised daily driver but still offers the awesome communicative feeling of a sports car. The track focussed 911 GT2 RS did get a quicker time than a Z06. :)

Marco911

10-16-2014, 10:33 PM

Marco911 doesn't have enough hair on his back or drink budweisers to fathom driving a corvette.

Wow, I feel like you really know me! :h5:

multicartual

10-16-2014, 11:22 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SWF9i3Vzpac/TM24lFuu0HI/AAAAAAAAA-g/KwYXzbQnaqA/s1600/Neo+dodges+the+bullet.gif

underscore

10-17-2014, 07:12 AM

Yeah the Z06 performs better on the track than regular Carreras due primarily to a better hp/weight ratio but 911s are still better driver's cars.

So now that something beat the 911 by a larger margin than the 911 beat the M4, 'ring times are no longer relevant to you. Right.

Marco911

10-17-2014, 07:26 AM

So now that something beat the 911 by a larger margin than the 911 beat the M4, 'ring times are no longer relevant to you. Right.

Well the M3/M4 doesn't have any redeeming qualities over the 911 does it? And I never said he lap times were irrelevant, I clearly stated the Z06 was faster.

68style

10-17-2014, 07:38 AM

sdubfid

10-17-2014, 10:12 AM

MARCO...

http://www.flat-six.co.uk/acatalog/WAP%20771%20XXX%200D%20Porsche%20Mens%20Pique%2091 1%20Polo%20Shirt%20Dark%20Blue%207262_Large.jpg

westopher

10-17-2014, 10:30 AM

All you guys are goons, why even compare these cars?
Well it started out because Marco insulted Jason, and many people by saying he went from piece of shit rice burners to the pinnacle of automotive engineering, and now its just funny watching him type circles around himself about his love for fingerless driving gloves and really shallow wrinkly overpriced porsche hats, with the sliding belt buckle type adjustment. You know the ones I'm talking about.

Gucci Mane

10-17-2014, 10:34 AM

most of you have it so twisted. the 911 isnt even a sports car. you cant compare it to sports cars when its a luxury cruiser, minivan and a race car all rolled into one.

but gt3 is race car only. cause gt3

white rocket

10-17-2014, 10:48 AM

MARCO...

POLO

underscore

10-17-2014, 11:03 AM

All you guys are goons, why even compare these cars? A M3/M4 costs like 60% what the lowest level 911 does... I bloody well hope for Porsche's sake the 911 is a bit quicker...

Likewise a GT2 costs more than twice what a Z06 does... derp.

Magazine racers.

Because that's the comparison Marco made, and the Porsche isn't significantly quicker for the massive price difference. Don't blame us for pointing out the weak points in someones else's argument.

underscore

10-17-2014, 11:10 AM

Well it started out because Marco insulted Jason, and many people by saying he went from piece of shit rice burners to the pinnacle of automotive engineering, and now its just funny watching him type circles around himself about his love for fingerless driving gloves and really shallow wrinkly overpriced porsche hats, with the sliding belt buckle type adjustment. You know the ones I'm talking about.

Someone around here has a sig quote about Marco that's priceless, can anyone find it?

Marco911

10-18-2014, 08:01 AM

Because that's the comparison Marco made, and the Porsche isn't significantly quicker for the massive price difference. Don't blame us for pointing out the weak points in someones else's argument.

14 seconds on the Nurburgring in a Porsche with less hp than the M3 is a significant difference.

The M3 is slower not because it's cheaper with 'less content' but because of its compromised family car origins.

The 911 probably has less material content in it than the BMW.

Speed2K

10-18-2014, 10:34 AM

Lol, magazine racing, I think some of you have taken shitty rentals but how many people on here have actually taken a 911, BMW M car, Cayman, Corvette, etc... on to the ring? :fuckthatshit:

Was the 14 seconds from different days? If so, you can't compare. One way to settle this, y'all should take your cars to the next track day! :awwyeah:

Marco911 vs ... :joy:

sekin67835

10-18-2014, 11:31 AM

14 seconds on the Nurburgring in a Porsche with less hp than the M3 is a significant difference.

The M3 is slower not because it's cheaper with 'less content' but because of its compromised family car origins.

The 911 probably has less material content in it than the BMW.

Lol dude if you're talking about heritage, the first porsche was built from a fucking beattle.

westopher

10-20-2014, 01:52 PM

I know this thread is dead, but I just started laughing about this family car at the track. Only mods are tires and coilovers. Skip to about 3 minutes. Its worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dkkDmchta0#t=262

dared3vil0

10-20-2014, 02:04 PM

Can't compare with two different drivers...

westopher

10-20-2014, 02:11 PM

I'm not comparing it to anything, just talking about how the "family car roots" seem to get around a track pretty fucking fast.

underscore

10-20-2014, 02:36 PM

The driver mod is the most important mod.

dared3vil0

10-20-2014, 03:12 PM

So true. I'd wager a guess an actual race car driver would be faster around a track in a 328i than an average Joe in an M3/4

Marco911

10-20-2014, 05:52 PM

That video looks like it has been sped up.

westopher

10-20-2014, 05:56 PM

Yep, the wonders of computers managed to speed up the video of the M4 while it slowed down the video of all the other cars on the track in the same video.

multicartual

10-20-2014, 06:44 PM

Blah blah blah someone can just buy a GT-R, dump 100k into it and basically beat Veyrons all day

bananana

10-20-2014, 07:32 PM

That video looks like it has been sped up.

Its a combination of a very good driver and distortion caused by the gopro's lens.

Marco911

10-20-2014, 07:42 PM

This is a more realistic frame rate for a video shot at Road America:

Road America Hot Lap - YouTube

dared3vil0

10-20-2014, 08:46 PM

^ In a fucking mazda you idiot, not a damn M car on coilovers and big meants.

Happy

10-20-2014, 10:17 PM

Did any of you see this video when this guy posted it?

Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube

I found it pretty funny that he bought an M4 right after returning the Porsche

BMW M4 F82 owner first drive and first impressions - YouTube

His point of view is the same as jasonturbo basically.

He must be stupid though in marcos eyes to return a 911 for a "family car" lol :troll:

Marco911

10-20-2014, 10:24 PM

^ In a fucking mazda you idiot, not a damn M car on coilovers and big meants.

Sorry fanboi, you lose. The difference would be that extreme even in a Mazda. In the original video, an E36 looks like it's flying too around the 6:00mark.

Start at 8:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnsk3sHZFqQ#t=665

Marco911

10-20-2014, 10:36 PM

Did any of you see this video when this guy posted it?

He must be stupid though in marcos eyes to return a 911 for a "family car" lol :troll:

Nowhere does Nick state that he traded down from the 911 to the family car because he didn't find the 911's performance accessible. In fact, he touts the virtues of the 911.

He had a long running dispute with Porsche over a series of unfortunate circumstances that rendered his 991 unfixable. After Porsche bought back his car, he decided to purchase an M4.

dared3vil0

10-21-2014, 08:26 AM

Sorry fanboi, you lose, the difference would be extreme

Sorry fanboi you lose

fanboi

Coming from you this is halariously ironic.

!e.lo_

10-22-2014, 06:22 PM

Always knew Jason would regret selling the ITR.

AzNightmare

10-22-2014, 08:48 PM

So true. I'd wager a guess an actual race car driver would be faster around a track in a 328i than an average Joe in an M3/4

A professional driver in a BRZ Aozora would destroy an average Joe in a Porsche around a track, cause avgerage Joe drivers are scared and unable to push their cars to the full limit. Or they'll just spin out from lack of skill.

white rocket

10-23-2014, 08:16 AM

Since we are conversing about drivers skill and whatnot here is a hilariously off-topic video of an all motor EF civic doing work on an R35 GTR. Absolute proof that driver skill is the most important aspect of high performance driving. Really shitty quality but an awesome video nonetheless.

Gtr-r35 vs civic-- gtr gets smoked! - YouTube

Z3guy

10-23-2014, 08:55 AM

Nowhere does Nick state that he traded down from the 911 to the family car because he didn't find the 911's performance accessible. In fact, he touts the virtues of the 911.

He had a long running dispute with Porsche over a series of unfortunate circumstances that rendered his 991 unfixable. After Porsche bought back his car, he decided to purchase an M4.

Your opinion is worthless. I can google search the info your provide. Let's state some facts here;

1) F80 M3 - you have never driven it but you seem to know about how the M3 rates Vs 911s. Marco thinks personally driving a vehicle and comparing it Vs another is less relevant than relying on some automobile journalist POV

2) Pushing limit on Street - anyone who thinks they can drive "outside the confines of the law" on the street and learn the potential of a sports car is completly laughable and very ill informed

3) Marco 911 has no balls and will never show up to RS event

I care about RS members that have had some personal experiences with the cars we are talking about (Jason turbo opinion on the GT3), not some childish bench racer pulling facts from the internet and stating he knows better....

Let's see what Marco quotes next....lol!!!!

The_AK

10-23-2014, 09:48 AM

Oh lord this thread is hilarious. Lost it at the fingerless driving gloves and porsche baseball cap mods

Gucci Mane

10-23-2014, 09:56 AM

Is the Porsche 911 GT3 The Best Sports Car Ever Built? - AFTER/DRIVE - YouTube

:troll:

E-SPEC

10-23-2014, 09:59 AM

GTR driver had no balls. Could have been a woman driving also.

multicartual

10-23-2014, 10:25 AM

2) Pushing limit on Street - anyone who thinks they can drive "outside the confines of the law" on the street and learn the potential of a sports car is completly laughable and very ill informed

3) Marco 911 has no balls and will never show up to RS event

2) As the former owner of a 700 hp Supra turbo, a 400 horsepower supercharged S2000, a 400 horsepower GMC Typhoon, I completely agree. It is hard to push the limits of sub 200 horsepower cars on the street safely

3) Marco has never gone to a meet???

multicartual

10-23-2014, 10:26 AM

Could have been a woman driving also.

Wow
Such sexist
Very misogyny

Gucci Mane

10-23-2014, 10:50 AM

2) As the former owner of a 700 hp Supra turbo, a 400 horsepower supercharged S2000, a 400 horsepower GMC Typhoon, I completely agree. It is hard to push the limits of sub 200 horsepower cars on the street safely

3) Marco has never gone to a meet???

post pics of typhoon at once!

multicartual

10-23-2014, 11:01 AM

post pics of typhoon at once!

http://i.imgur.com/jCk9URU.jpg

Cool ride but needed too much maintenance. Plus I generally hate automatics.

Also I launched too hard once and broke the seat. Everything in that truck wanted to break if you just looked at it wrong!

Someone hit-and-ran the Typhooooooooon when I lived in Langley, the body cladding was nearly $1000 to fix from the quotes I got. What the fuck!!!

Gucci Mane

10-23-2014, 11:11 AM

Cool ride but needed too much maintenance. Plus I generally hate automatics.

Also I launched too hard once and broke the seat. Everything in that truck wanted to break if you just looked at it wrong!

Someone hit-and-ran the Typhooooooooon when I lived in Langley, the body cladding was nearly $1000 to fix from the quotes I got. What the fuck!!!

:lawl: typical late 80's early 90's GM. everything was crap from them back then, including the corvette. well, the iroc camaro was dope lol..

but damn that typhoon is nice, i've always loved those things.

dared3vil0

10-23-2014, 11:15 AM

Those Typhoons were AWD right?

multicartual

10-23-2014, 11:17 AM

Those Typhoons were AWD right?

Yes. It had a high stall, a big turbo, meth spray... was FAST as FUCK!!!

(When it ran right!!!)

Every time I drove it something broke or I discovered a new problem or rattle. It was insane.

white rocket

10-23-2014, 12:09 PM

Fuck I love those Typhoons(and Syclones). I'm always searching CL in the US for them. Some decent ones still around.

multicartual

10-23-2014, 02:46 PM

Fuck I love those Typhoons(and Syclones). I'm always searching CL in the US for them. Some decent ones still around.

Big dollars to keep'em running!

They are massive fun :) Just a poor daily driver.

AzNightmare

10-24-2014, 07:29 AM

SumAznGuy

10-24-2014, 07:47 AM

A professional driver in a BRZ Aozora would destroy an average Joe in a Porsche around a track, cause avgerage Joe drivers are scared and unable to push their cars to the full limit. Or they'll just spin out from lack of skill.

One of our very own RS members has a very good youtube video of his Civic all over the a$$ of a 911 Turbo at The Ridge. It's just too bad once they hit the straights, the P-car driver mashes down on the right pedal and the car pulls away but at the very next corner the Civic is all over the back end of the Turbo again.

dared3vil0

10-24-2014, 08:11 AM

^ Linky?

meme405

10-24-2014, 08:20 AM

^ Linky?

http://www.revscene.net/forums/695361-unofficial-but-maybe-official-some-point-my-latest-hpde-experience-thread.html

It was somewhere in this thread. I remember the video.

SumAznGuy

10-24-2014, 08:57 AM

I was wrong.
It was a GT3.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/695361-unofficial-but-maybe-official-some-point-my-latest-hpde-experience-thread-7.html#post8488470

westopher

10-24-2014, 09:02 AM

If I were that guy in the gt3 I'd walk over to the driver of that civic after the session and slap him the biggest high five hes ever been slapped with. That was impressive to say the least.

dared3vil0

10-24-2014, 09:30 AM

Hey Marco?

:lawl: Civic faster than GT3

white rocket

10-24-2014, 10:55 AM

Such a good video. I fucking love Honda's from that era.
To the GT3 driver: you go on ahead, I'll see you at the next turn :troll:

kchan

10-24-2014, 11:58 AM

gdi this thread is gold

not even sure who to agree with but sure are lots of comments i just facepalm to...

!Kodamu

10-24-2014, 02:07 PM

This video is better,

stuck behind a 911 turbo - YouTube

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

10-24-2014, 02:19 PM

This video is better,

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

Nice driving!

Wow.. the guy's ego just could not allow a car that costs 10% of his to be faster than him.. dick move on his part.

kchan

10-24-2014, 05:45 PM

This video is better,

stuck behind a 911 turbo - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPFZ_TkDdjg)

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

lets put you in that turbo vs yourself in your civic

how many more seconds would you have shaved off your person best? :lawl:

Marshall Placid

10-24-2014, 06:30 PM

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

Impressive driving!:woot2:

boatcaptain

10-24-2014, 07:30 PM

the guy in the civic is not very normal.he have a nickname chinese stig

dared3vil0

10-24-2014, 08:00 PM

Some say he can telepathically slow down 911 drivers,

Some say him simply being in a car = +50hp

All we know is, it's the Chinese stig!

thread music;

Top Gear Theme Song - YouTube

/thread

AzNightmare

10-24-2014, 09:30 PM

This video is better,

stuck behind a 911 turbo - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPFZ_TkDdjg)

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

Lol, and you had "passenger weight "handicap too.

What happened at the very end? Did he finally let you pass? Couldn't catch what he was gesturing as you passed.

GC8

10-24-2014, 10:00 PM

Marco911

10-26-2014, 08:41 PM

Looks like a lot of commenters here haven't been to a track and don't know the difference between a race and a DE.

!Kodamu

10-26-2014, 09:23 PM

So we went from driving don't the streets to having laps times and now racing wheel to wheel?????

PS: I have driven the f80 m3 and 991 c2s and 991 turbo S

You can't even utilize 50% of the car before reaching 200 easily on the streets

Z3guy

10-27-2014, 06:49 AM

twitchyzero

10-27-2014, 07:08 AM

This video is better,

what kind of race recorder are you using to record the data like g-force, lap position?

ae101

10-27-2014, 08:05 AM

seriously why dont u guys just set a meet at ridge with marco & let all your driving do the talking (or arguing in this.case) so we settle this once & for all

unless some of you are too busy :troll:

get a few guys.to.shoot.some videos.......heck this could be fun

originalhypa

10-27-2014, 09:27 AM

seriously why dont u guys just set a meet at ridge with marco & let all your driving do the talking (or arguing in this.case) so we settle this once & for all

Bah, noob!
One does not simply just "meet" with Marco. He may or may not be an international playboy with ties to the 1% crowd. Or he may actually be living off his parent's AMEX black . Some say his Porsche was built in 05', but is updated every year to GT3 specs for twice the cost of a new car. He states that this is solely to maintain the butt crease he has created in the driver's seat.

For his volunteer hours, Marco bangs supermodels to break them in for their future athlete husbands.

:fuckyea:

Gucci Mane

10-27-2014, 10:35 AM

Bah, noob!
One does not simply just "meet" with Marco. He may or may not be an international playboy with ties to the 1% crowd. Or he may actually be living off his parent's AMEX black . Some say his Porsche was built in 05', but is updated every year to GT3 specs for twice the cost of a new car. He states that this is solely to maintain the butt crease he has created in the driver's seat.

For his volunteer hours, Marco bangs supermodels to break them in for their future athlete husbands.

:fuckyea:

So in other words, Marco really is just a PSA fag?

This Marco is really coming off sounding like Drumhawk from VM. Those of you that know, will know what I mean.

Marco911

10-27-2014, 07:22 PM

Your opinion is worthless. I can google search the info your provide. Let's state some facts here;

I wish you did use a google search rather than spouting off with ignorant opinions.

1) F80 M3 - you have never driven it but you seem to know about how the M3 rates Vs 911s. Marco thinks personally driving a vehicle and comparing it Vs another is less relevant than relying on some automobile journalist POV

So not only are you wrong here because my opinion happens to match the vast body of professional reviews, you are also a hypocrite since you often comment on cars you have not driven.

I know the M3 ranks below the 911. I know the M3 is not as involving as the 911. I know BMWs now have dead steering and have to pipe in their engine noises vs. Porsche that still engineers a car properly. I know the M4 has a 14 second deficit on the Nurburgring vs. a lower powered 911. The M3 has become a sporty family car like an IS-F, an S4 and C63.

And your opinion is only valid if it matches mine.

2) Pushing limit on Street - anyone who thinks they can drive "outside the confines of the law" on the street and learn the potential of a sports car is completly laughable and very ill informed

Thanks for taking my comments out of context, Gomer. I said that you could feel the more sophisticated tune of the chassis in a 911, particularly if you drive outside the confines of the law. You can also enjoy the steering feedback, the balance and the road feel on the street. You do not need a GT3; a base 911 would already have been a large step up in performance for the OP and would be much easier to live with.

I care about RS members that have had some personal experiences with the cars we are talking about (Jason turbo opinion on the GT3), not some childish bench racer pulling facts from the internet and stating he knows better....

Relying on anecdotal experience that does not match a body of knowledge is suggestive of a simple, unsophisticated mind. You must be a Liberal Arts or Commerce major.

Let's see what Marco quotes next....lol!!!!
"A novice driver can extract more performance from an M3 than a 911." -Z3Guy

I'm still waiting for a credible reference for that quote. :bullshit:

jasonturbo

10-27-2014, 07:47 PM

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bc/bc77c796158c48caf8535ea11e1ea5012ad8d16cf406b9603c be82206059d625.jpg

Btw, what's it like being "that guy"? You know, when everyone at the party is having a good time, then you walk in and everyone just gets real quiet...

Z3guy

10-27-2014, 08:53 PM

Marco, you are so funny when you are stomping your feet! Lol

Marco911

10-27-2014, 10:27 PM

Btw, what's it like being "that guy"? You know, when everyone at the party is having a good time, then you walk in and everyone just gets real quiet...

male lion vs hyena epic video - YouTube

Gucci Mane

10-27-2014, 10:41 PM

originalhypa

10-28-2014, 09:53 AM

The worst thing is that I agree with Marco. While the M3 has proven itself to be a worthy track steed, in the end the Porsche was bred for the track. If you can stomach driving a car with it's engine hanging over the back wheels, you have mastered the Matrix.

That said, we come right back to the point of this thread talking about the old mechanical cars without all the nannies that keep the rubber side down. The new cars are driven by computer more than driver. Whether it's the M3 or the new 9991196 or whatever the hell they call the new 911 chassis, both cars are far removed from their roots, and as such the lines are blurred as to which is a sports car, and which is the daily driver.

It's more fun to drive a car at it's limits, and unless you're Jensen Button, you're better off driving something with lower power as it gets to it's limit quicker.

Now let's watch this sick video of a Swiss hillclimb event with old, shitty, fast, awesome cars.

Best Of Awesome Swiss Hillclimb course de cÃ´te Ayent-AnzÃ¨re 2013. Sound, Speed, Drift and Action - YouTube

Dragon-88

10-28-2014, 10:42 AM

Drove a GT3 at the Exotic Driving Experience in Vegas.. I can definitely say this car is an absolute blast to drive on the track. To keep it tamed on the streets will be hard because all you want to hear it that loud sex tone the car makes.. I tried to whip out the tail on some of the corners, but the car would just grip and eat them like its a go kart.. Absolute blast to drive, but I agree its not a road warrior but more of a track car. I'd still buy one if I could afford it.. Then live in it because I wont be able to afford track days.. LOL

originalhypa

10-28-2014, 11:29 AM

GT3 on the street what?!?!

My 20g STi is too much for the streets when the go pedal is touching the floor and the boost hits 20psi. I couldn't imagine it with 500 fewer pounds, and a few more ponies.

Marco911

10-28-2014, 11:07 PM

Marco, you are so funny when you are stomping your feet! Lol

The only thing that needs stomping on is your former clown-shoe car.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3151/revscenez3hardtop2tb9.jpg

RevYouUp

10-28-2014, 11:18 PM

http://www.asianjunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/CrowdOhMyGod.gif

J89

10-29-2014, 12:42 AM

This video is better,

stuck behind a 911 turbo - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPFZ_TkDdjg)

Who needs a F80 M3 when my civic has full interior with AC and powersteering

Not going to lie back in the day(maybe 5 years ago or so) this guy use to have a CRX with a B18B that raped LOL.

I couldn't even keep up even in a higher horsepower car, not even close in the corners.

Truly the chinese stig.

Z3guy

10-29-2014, 06:36 AM

The only thing that needs stomping on is your former clown-shoe car.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3151/revscenez3hardtop2tb9.jpg

I loved that thing, thanks for send a pic!

GLOW

10-29-2014, 07:26 AM

SB7

10-29-2014, 07:28 AM

^ weren't you selling it like 2 or 3 years ago or something?

bicboi

10-29-2014, 09:56 AM

originalhypa

10-29-2014, 12:28 PM

:lol @ clown shoe car

Just 3 words with so much describe!
engrish, ror.

Marco911

10-29-2014, 11:41 PM

Did any of you see this video when this guy posted it?

Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXUnZrykDY)

I found it pretty funny that he bought an M4 right after returning the Porsche

His point of view is the same as jasonturbo basically.

He must be stupid though in marcos eyes to return a 911 for a "family car" lol :troll:

Start at 7:45 and weep, BMW fanbois. He's dumping the family car to move back to a 911.

BMW M4 F82 4th month owner update - YouTube

jasonturbo

10-30-2014, 02:33 PM

I have decided what will replace my GT3, srs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG/800px-Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG

I know what most of you are thinking "Jason, you can't buy that, your financial advisor Marco said you can't afford it...". Don't worry, I'll figure out some way to make it work.

Sometimes I think people can't appreciate the complexity of my first world problems. I'll just have to learn to be a bit more mature on the road I suppose.

boostfever

10-30-2014, 02:49 PM

"Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why a faster and more expensive version of the GT3 is a better car... "

:fuckthatshit:

I like where you're going with this though.

Gumby

10-30-2014, 02:51 PM

I have decided what will replace my GT3, srs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG/800px-Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG
Was your decision influenced in any way by Marco911? :troll:

jasonturbo

10-30-2014, 02:53 PM

"Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why a faster and more expensive version of the GT3 is a better car... "

:fuckthatshit:

I like where you're going with this though.

I know what you're saying.. but... it's GREEN!

white rocket

10-30-2014, 03:21 PM

jasonturbo: I like your style :hat:

TouringTeg

10-30-2014, 04:36 PM

Is your GT3 listed anywhere for sale?

You are looking at a big premium for a green GT3 RS. Tough to find.

May as well go with a GT3 RS 4.0 :fuckyea:

GT3 RS 4.0 - Rennlist Discussion Forums (http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-marketplace/830030-gt3-rs-4-0-a.html)

http://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/vehicle-marketplace/864970d1409187798-gt3-rs-4-0-cww-2014_4.jpg

jasonturbo

10-30-2014, 04:42 PM

No my car will just rot in storage till summer, I will likely find a green RS before
I sell my lowly white base GT3.

tofu1413

10-30-2014, 04:56 PM

lowly, base GT3 with no club sport package

:troll:

knight604

10-30-2014, 05:16 PM

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

Z3guy

10-30-2014, 05:53 PM

Jason turbo, the price gap between 07-08 gt3rs and 2010 gt3rs is only $25-$35k, however the performance gap is huge. The engine mounts, and hp gains are worth the price diff imo. My 996gt3 with headers, cats, cup throttle body, intake, and software, could pull on a stock 997.1 rs on the track. However, don't get me wrong, Kermit the frog 997.1 rs are still drool cars, but I would ante up an get the .2

ts14

10-30-2014, 06:21 PM

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

u have friends?

:troll:

knight604

10-30-2014, 06:24 PM

no , he will be my first friend.

jasonturbo

10-30-2014, 07:45 PM

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

u have friends?

:troll:

no , he will be my first friend.

We can all be friends.. assuming you're going to let me play with your tits etc.

If you don't have tits…

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqb1dtBnQf1r0ojhto1_500.gif

herman

10-30-2014, 08:28 PM

Jason, are shitty cars not better? What has changed since your original post?

knight604

10-30-2014, 08:45 PM

i have pecks , not tits if you want to grasp.

jasonturbo

10-30-2014, 09:08 PM

Jason, are shitty cars not better? What has changed since your original post?

What don't you understand? The car is GREEN!

JD¹³

11-01-2014, 02:37 PM

I have decided what will replace my GT3, srs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG/800px-Porsche_997_GT3_RS.JPG
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jack.gif

DontFrontOnMe

11-01-2014, 09:13 PM

Hello RS,

*Disclaimer: This is all a matter of opinion :)

First of all, a bit of a history lesson, I have owned a number of vehicles, more than most (Possibly even more than TOFU!), many of which have been modified, some of which include; (In order of most recent)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/photo-8.jpg
2005 STI, current winter car, about to receive bunch of mods this week!

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/3.png
2004 BMW M3, lots of parts, loved this car.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/STI/stipic2.jpg
2011 STI, lots of parts, big dissapointment.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/night2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/beforethepull.jpg
2001 DC2-R, lots of parts, super clean, the BEST CAR I HAVE EVER OWNED.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG01104-1.jpg
1999 EM1; B18C-R, coils, typical ricer honda interior bits

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/Civic%20SI/P9150005.jpg
2008 Civic Si, not a bad DD.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG00194.jpg
2001 S2k, basically stock, such a great car.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG00068.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG00049.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG00093.jpg
1998 DC2-R, lots of parts, did N/A build, pure nightmare, #regretmodding.

Just as a general comment, this is only going back to 2009-ish, prior to that I owned a large variety of modded/swapped Honda's and Nissan's. I am also leaving out a number of recent vehicles such as my K20A2 EP3 and 1997 DC2-R. I will not even bother touching on all the vehicles that belonged to other people that I have had the chance to drive.

Moving right along!... Just a few months ago I purchased this rather immaculate 2007 Porsche GT3;

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/photo-6.jpg
2007 Porsche 911 GT3 for sale, 6-Speed Manual, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, Weissach (http://www.weissach.com/auto/detail/?s=Porsche&c=All&pg=5&id=1981&tp=auto) <---- more pics

This purchase was significant for me for the following reasons;
- The price tag of 100k, I am not rich, nor do I come from a rich family etc.
- I have wanted one of these cars for the better part of 5 years.
- Because race car.

Now for the part where I explain how the GT3 did not live up to my expectations... or how it exceeded them in an unacceptable manner :s Simply put, the car is TOO FAST.

Right now a number of you are sitting there looking at your screen saying "Well it's a GT3, what the #*$& did you think it would be, slow?"... Yeah yeah yeah, I know, just wait, I'll explain.

It is difficult to enjoy the car on the street for the following reasons;
- Acceleration: First gear is no fun in any car, second gear winds out to 120km/hr +, so if you feel like wringing the car out, you are playing a very risky game with the Police, and potentially the safety of yourself and others.
- Handling: You can take any turn in the city at 100km/hr+ and you will never even be touching on the capabilities of the chassis/suspension, and you feel this, it all feels very boring at any speed less than ludicrous.
- Braking: You can't legally achieve any speed that will even get these brakes warmed up.

Overall: Yes this car is an amazing machine, but you can only actually experience this amazement on a RACE TRACK, period. Perhaps if I lived near VIR and could track my car 10+ times per summer and afford the crazy costs associated with Porsche race car maintenance and repair it would make more sense.

So what does it all mean and why did I feel the need to share this?

I suspect that many of you are similar to myself, you see a GT3/Lambo/Ferrari and you assume driving a car like that can provide an experience that is unmatched by your Honda/Nissan/Toyota/Etc. piece of shit. Well yes, it can provide an experience that is unmatched by your moms G35, but, only if you have access to a world class race track, or are willing to risk losing your license and killing bystanders on the reg.

Now on the other hand, let's talk about your piece of shit and the experience it provides.
- Your car is slow, you say things like "I'm going to break a 15 second quarter with this new skunk2 header" (No, it won't btw)... though your car is slow, it's also poorly built for high speed, so it offers the sensation of going fast!
- Most corners and off ramps are exciting, that shitty suspension geometry makes it feel very unstable and exciting, cause it is!
- Braking, the odd time you have to get on your brakes, it's a constant reminder that you need a BBK! #exciting

Simply put, your car that costs <15k is much more fun on the street every day than a 100K GT3 or any real super car etc.

So for all of you people on RS with shitty old imports, don't covet other peoples expensive cars, chances are they don't have nearly as much fun as you do :) Yeah they're probably ballin' and get more pussy than you do, but hey, #tinder has got your back. I swear that I would have more fun in Westophers E36, MB's MR2, lexluthor09's S2k, TRD RS200's EK9, long's ITR, TOFU's Fiat (Assuming you still own it), Tjalmeida's BRZ (OR was it FRS?), Snails' EF (**SORRY!**), etc than I do in the GT3, or any other car with that level of performance.

Anyway, I know this is a mess, but I'm strongly considering getting back into a slower car so that I can once again enjoy driving fast. Of all the cars I have owned and driven, the one that stands out most to me was my Yellow ITR :( We were so perfect for each other.

Discuss, has anyone else experienced the same feelings? Cars that perform too well to be enjoyed on the street???

BRB buying ITR.

Jason, don't live in Edmonton like a queer where the roads are paved pot holes, and you might enjoy a GT3. Fuck sakes. Woman.

dared3vil0

11-01-2014, 10:24 PM

^ Try not to quote all the pics lmao

underscore

11-01-2014, 10:47 PM

Quoting the longest post of the thread and then adding a weak ass insult is a recipe for failure.

flagella

11-02-2014, 08:10 PM

Wait, did I miss something?

So I guess the summary of this thread is basically "Hey guys, I'm selling my GT3 because cheaper cars will offer the same amount of fun and allow you to push harder on the street, but I'll be looking to buy a GT3RS because fuck you."

jasonturbo

11-02-2014, 08:48 PM

Marco911

11-03-2014, 03:59 AM

"The heart wants what the heart wants."

This pleases me. Time to change your name to Jason911 in my honor, son.

Z3guy

11-05-2014, 04:00 PM

this is an interesting article that most track porsche guys have been saying for a longtime, including Hans Stuck. I am still going to trade my M3 for a 991 in a year or so because I need the backseat for my kid, but if I didn't, I would love to get a cayman gt3rs.....

It Won’t Make Any Difference If the Cayman Is Faster Than The 911
Posted on November 5, 2014 by Vicente Esteve

You feel the fatigue on your shoulders after a long enduring day. The sweat of your hands has created half a dozen blisters that ache like bites from an angry rat. Your hair is compacted so tightly its as if a solid woolly sphere would cover your cranium. At a distance, you can smell and feel the heat that the 8 Thousand dollar Carbon Ceramic brakes expel from your Carrera 2S. As the sun still glistens on your 911’s Guards Red painted hips besides your white helmet you think that it was an amazing run. Your fifth track day on the gorgeous Richmond raceway, where you have learned about grip, braking and balance to really make your car work around those curves. Each practice has been an improvement and each improvement is going to result into that stopwatch stating your time. As you see the stopwatch you read 2:13. 2 Seconds quicker than last time, and oh boy are you excited. And just as you start congratulating yourself comes that guy Chad in the Cayman who does a 2:10. And you know what?

You won’t give a damn about it.

Porsche is currently in a situation where they have so many excellent products that they have to literally make some of them a bit worse in order for others to continue striving. Im not talking about how they are straining themselves from making the Macan perform better than the Boxster (Although it could) but with their most iconic sports car and the over-achieving little sod it has as a brother. The Cayman’s mid engine configuration and the balance it brings with it has made it into such a brilliant machine Porsche has always toned it down for fear of uncrowning the king. From the first generation its flat six has always had just enough horsepower to be slower than the base 911 and just enough grunt to never be able to catch it either. With this second generation of the Cayman and the 991 911 its business as usual and Porsche should stop doing this because it wont make a difference if the 911 is the slower car.

Do you know how many people see the Camaro Z/28 and know it will pull more lateral G than both the Nissan GTR and the 911 Turbo S? Do you know how many people that bought a 2014 Mercedes Benz S65 AMG know that their car does 0-60 0.1 seconds slower than the $140K less expensive CLA45 AMG? And I am not even introducing a Viper VS. Hellcat comparison. What is the most surprising fact though is how the Cayman R is already faster than a 991 Carrera 2 and 4. Surprise surprise Porsche, you already did it. All these facts affirm that the effort in keeping the Cayman in the shadow of the 911 has been pointless. Its seated in each car for hours behind the wheel on different roads where you’ll notice the difference. The numbers don’t matter anymore, its about how the mid-engined car feels compared to what the rear-engined car feels and that is much more comparable. So what if the new Cayman gets to the chicane faster, or if the 911 gets the quicker time in its chronometer, these 2 cars feel completely different and offer their own unique driving styles. It’s that knowledge Porsche has to make a car behave that will give both the Cayman and the 911 a good opportunity in the eyes of its potential buyer. Think of it this way, each car will make a case for itself with each of their personalities.

Let’s also not forget how many cars have used power to lure buyers from Porsches. F-Type Coupe R, Corvette, GTR and many others that offer up to 100+ HP more than the 911 and guess what. The 911 still sells, still wins comparisons and still offers the driver feedback that the other cars may lack. Same story with the Cayman which could be pitted against the C7 or the M4 and is still praised by the people who road-tests it. Porsche has always been more than just brute force, and it shows in pretty much every car they make. Or, if you do want a Porsche that gives the brutal force, there is the Turbo S that I have a pretty good guess won’t be slower than whatever Cayman that Porsche may later build.

Then, we get to a word that PR people love to use almost as much as Emotional. Heritage. Heritage is still the #1 reason the 911 will soldier on with its impeccable reputation. Ask any adult what Porsche would they want and they will likely say 911. Cayman 4S PDK GTS Chrono-Pack? No. The 911 will always be the go-to Porsche for everyone, and the one that has kept the companies’ tradition the most. Its as if the 911 is a classic brief underwear. Its the underwear everyone knows and many men prefer. The Cayman is a Boxer Brief. Its the new thing, that may even perform better at its intended purpose than the classic brief. And, it will have its cult of followers who want the newest, trendiest product offered. But in the end, Porsche has based itself on the classic brief and a large number of its buyers want just that. Even if in the end, the Boxer Briefs are the better bet. The name Porsche will always be associated with 911, no matter how better or worse it is than its competitors or even its siblings and it will always have a buyer.

Making the Cayman quicker than the 911 also gives Porsche the chance to do something they just love. Charging more money! It really surprises me that, with the way Porsche manages their lineup, they haven’t come out with an even faster Cayman that would force buyers to give more outlay. In the end, a car brand is a business and this is a great strategy to keep the business as successful as it is.

We are probably not realizing what a more powerful, better performing Porsche Cayman could and would be.

A (more) Reliable Ferrari?

The most Liveable Mid Engined Car?

One of the Best Performing Sports Cars?

The closest thing to a modern stick-shift Ferrari?

A reliable, manual, quality brimmed supercar?

Don’t be afraid of the best Cayman yet. The 911 will keep its own character, will still be the esteemed Porsche by everyone, and will sell as effectively as it does today. Numbers aren’t everything, and the smile on your face will be the perfect evidence of that.

Z3guy

11-05-2014, 04:06 PM

here are some of the comments from the article that was posted on jalopnik;

1. But,

"I paid more for this, so it must be faster than the cheaper model"

-everyone who actually buys 911s

2. The Cayman is not, and never will be, a Ferrari.
21Reply
Vicente-Esteve
Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveBrian Silvestro
Today 6:14pm

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1. I don't think people who think that way will do something to prove that their car is faster (track days, drag strips). They will own the car with that thought.

People who do know will know that the Cayman can be faster than the 911.

2. Alright I took it too far, but it does share qualities of a "supercar"
1Reply
BrianSilvestro
Brian Silvestro
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Brian SilvestroVicente-Esteve
Today 6:15pm

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1. You're generalizing
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveBrian Silvestro
Today 6:20pm

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Well yes, because, it would mean that the person only based their purchase on price. Sometimes, higher price doesn't mean a better product.
1Reply
BrianSilvestro
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Brian SilvestroVicente-Esteve
Today 6:27pm

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But not all people think the same way.
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kvnkiley
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anothermiatafanboyBrian Silvestro
Today 6:43pm

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Not all people think the same way? Quite the profound conclusion to have reached, ya dingleberry. Give the guy a break, he wrote a really nice article.
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-Esteveanothermiatafanboy
18 minutes ago

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Haha thanks. But we are all free to say what we want. And I probably went to far to calling the Cayman something close to a Ferrari. Either way, discussion is good.
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thespunbearing
Travis - King of Spun Bearings
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Travis - King of Spun BearingsVicente-Esteve
Today 5:46pm

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My point exactly. Put the GT2 RS motor into a Cayman, and it would be the first Porsche I'd ever want.

The Cayman is just so much better looking as well.
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Vicente-Esteve
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Today 6:15pm

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Looks are subjective, but people who HATE Porsche because of the 911 will adore this faster Cayman.
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blogenfreude01
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Today 5:50pm

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This is spot on. I don't think most Porsche owners know or care whether their car is the fastest or the slowest in the lineup. Nor do they care that there might (at some point) be, say, a Boxster that you can spec out to be faster than a Carrera 4. They want the car they want - the numbers are secondary. If cost were no object, I'd get a Boxster with everything. Love the dynamics. If only the 911 were on the menu, I'd get a Targa. If there was some version of some lesser model that was .2 faster in the 1/4 mile, so what?
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Vicente-Esteve
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Today 6:17pm

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Exactly! Numbers do need to exist because we like the cold facts. Also, it gives carmakers the opportunity to make headlines. But, a Porsche is more than numbers and also why for some people the Cayman is a better Porsche than a 911 Convertible Turbo.
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blogenfreude01
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And slower cars can sometimes be fun to drive because you can get them nearer the limit - Scion/Subaru twins for instance. I think ultimately the feel of the thing is what does it. The one (admittedly mid-90s) 911 I drove did not compare, in my mind, to an early 2000s Boxster - it just felt so planted. I think that bromide about "people who drive Boxsters can't afford 911s" is rubbish. Knew a law partner who loved his late 90s Boxster - he was clearing more than a million a year and drove everything in the range. He chose what he wanted, not what he thought he needed to be seen in ....
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Vicente-Esteve
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19 minutes ago

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That is a perfect example of the point I am making, and I only have been driven a new model Boxster. The owner had a 911 before it (991) and felt it wasn't being used enough, then drove the Boxster and fell in love.
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blogenfreude01
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14 minutes ago

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You can use either car every day, but the Boxster seems more like something you'd rather drive regularly. And I want to say the 911 I drove was the last air-cooled year, but I can't be sure - it was a noisy car.
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bdolan40
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26 minutes ago

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Don't spread this opinion to the masses just yet... Used values on Cayman's are still tantalizingly low and I would like to pick up a used example in a year or so.
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Vicente-Esteve
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7 minutes ago

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I tried to find about the cheapest Cayman you could buy.

18K.

Hmmmmm, that or a new Accent?

underscore

11-05-2014, 06:00 PM

Ask any adult what Porsche would they want and they will likely say 911. Cayman 4S PDK GTS Chrono-Pack? No. The 911 will always be the go-to Porsche for everyone, and the one that has kept the companies’ tradition the most.

They'll say 911 because that's the only Porsche most people have ever heard of.

kobe tai

11-05-2014, 08:06 PM

I need me some oil money :(

Ronin

11-05-2014, 08:49 PM

LOL so you didn't like the GT3 but you're buying a GT3RS?

Love it. Because fuck logic, right? :lol

Hey, first world problems are problems too.

http://www.gameoverviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/I-know-that-feeling-bro-600x300.jpg

orgasm_donor

11-07-2014, 08:52 PM

My most expensive and fastest car was a 2009 STi. Ok, it was no exotic but a pretty nice ride. I really liked it at first but then it got old and the excitement wore off. My slow-ass Hondas have always been lots of fun and enjoyable to drive. Of the 27 cars that I have owned, one of my favorites was my 1974 Ford Maverick that I paid $700 for. It was a complete shitbox but it had a 5 litre V8, it was lowered and it was pretty quick actually. It cost me nothing to run over the three years I had it and if I got a dent...meh.

Shitboxes FTW!

originalhypa

11-10-2014, 09:38 AM

My most expensive and fastest car was a 2009 STi.

My favorite STi was still the blue 04' that I had. It was light, and purely mechanical. It would break traction so easily, and with the 60-40% split in the center diff, it was easy to control at the limits. When I bought my 06' it was a far nicer car to drive, but it lost that edge that the 04' had. When they brought out the 08' model, I was shocked as to how tame and boring they had made the car. It didn't only look like a minivan, but drove like one too. Unfortunately every STi after was more and more tame to the point that they were neutered.

For example, you can't even change your driver settings while the 2015 is in motion. The car has to be stopped and in neutral for it to accept a change to sport sharp.

#weaksauce

Obsideon

12-10-2014, 11:22 PM

This thead hit home for me. I love my 996 even though it's a money pit but I had way more "fun" with my 2000 SiR back in the day.
If I gunned the Porsche it would crack 120km/h before I get out of 2nd and would have to step on the brakes.
In the Civic, oooh boy red-lining that rice rocket on every gear and then barely crack 140
http://31.media.tumblr.com/76ac524e851f01c1403e866e0034443b/tumblr_mo1ye5FMtp1s9r5lro1_500.gif

trollguy

12-11-2014, 08:34 AM

For example, you can't even change your driver settings while the 2015 is in motion. The car has to be stopped and in neutral for it to accept a change to sport sharp.

#weaksauce

seriously????????//

wtffff
:heckno:

Pumbaa

12-11-2014, 01:26 PM

ZN6

12-11-2014, 01:40 PM

I guess thats why 911s refer as the widowmaker
Especially the older Porsches are even hard to handle, much more dangerous than current gens. VWVortex.com - Why the 911 is called the widowmaker. (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5315292-Why-the-911-is-called-the-widowmaker).

Not hard to imagine when the engine hangs over the rear wheels and there was no electronic gadgetry back in the day to help keep the car from going ass-backwards into a pole.

right angle

12-11-2014, 09:40 PM

My favorite STi was still the blue 04' that I had. It was light, and purely mechanical. It would break traction so easily, and with the 60-40% split in the center diff, it was easy to control at the limits. When I bought my 06' it was a far nicer car to drive, but it lost that edge that the 04' had. When they brought out the 08' model, I was shocked as to how tame and boring they had made the car. It didn't only look like a minivan, but drove like one too. Unfortunately every STi after was more and more tame to the point that they were neutered.

For example, you can't even change your driver settings while the 2015 is in motion. The car has to be stopped and in neutral for it to accept a change to sport sharp.

#weaksauce

Oh man the first time i tried to drive my '97 STi in the rain. Left turn in first gear? no problem! Hit 4000rpm, boost comes on and the rear axle went out to lunch. :toot:

good thing all that time in Gran Turismo taught me how to correct oversteer and I came out unscathed. Probably looked pretty hectic to be honest. :whistle:

westopher

12-11-2014, 11:25 PM

HOLY.FUCKING.SHIT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9jj8YGQWGA#t=63

SkunkWorks

12-12-2014, 12:49 AM

Dat Yellowbird doe.

Lots of poo shot out whilst watching that, and I'm not even in the car...

tofu1413

12-12-2014, 01:11 AM

:sweetjesus:

walter rohrl - yellowbird meister indeed.

boostfever

12-12-2014, 10:15 AM

not even wearing a helmet :heckno:

SkunkWorks

12-12-2014, 01:39 PM

:sweetjesus:

walter rohrl - yellowbird meister indeed.

That's not Walter. The driver is Stephan Rozer, RUF test driver and owner of planetary-sized testes.

white rocket

12-12-2014, 01:53 PM

Jesus!! He's driving like 12/10th's. Haha!

ZN6

12-16-2014, 09:44 AM

That's not Walter. The driver is Stephan Rozer, RUF test driver and owner of planetary-sized testes.

Normally, I'd suggest getting that checked out by a doctor for tumor growth but in his case, they are just right.

jasonturbo

06-03-2015, 07:50 AM

Back from the dead, sold GT3, bought ITR.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pByXoSzP5pU/T_nUOuJ8YSI/AAAAAAAADkU/bDgnl5qNzag/s1600/haters-gonna-hate-futurama.gif

I'm sorry Marco, please forgive me

Berzerker

06-03-2015, 08:49 AM

Profit?

Berz out.

trollguy

06-03-2015, 08:49 AM

photos of ITR pls

Simplex123

06-03-2015, 08:53 AM

^ It's in the Craigslist thread

Berzerker

06-03-2015, 08:55 AM

Now you can get a Whale Penis!!!!

Berz out.

fliptuner

06-03-2015, 08:55 AM

He did say shitty cars are better cars...... fucking Honda's. :troll:

http://www.revscene.net/forums/694703-craigslist-good-buys-274.html#post8643826

Ronin

06-03-2015, 09:31 AM

Beautiful ITR. I was tempted by one when I was looking around for a new car this time last year but there were just too many modern gadgets I wanted.

...and turbo.

jasonturbo

05-27-2018, 04:06 PM

Back from the dead with more random thoughts...

As most of you know, since posting this thread I moved on to a GT4.. which I sold, wonderful car but just lacks the presence of a 911.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/8_1.jpg

And then to an E92 M2... terrible on fuel, great power/gearing for city shenanigans, sold because I just couldn't come to terms with the color or mileage lol.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/09615C44-BBD0-4844-B359-918034D8A1FF.jpg

I purchased 997 GT3 RS, similar to the first GT3 it's amazing but very hard to enjoy on the road.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG_0408_1.jpg

I then added another E92 M3, I was looking for a Santorini Blue car for quite some time, this MCB unit came up for sale in Victoria and TouringTeg forced me to buy it.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/jasonturbo/IMG_0087.jpg

Anna finally, just recently I took delivery of this 2018 R8 RWS

https://tdrvehicles.azureedge.net/private/2018/5/27/adc13d6c-e959-4349-8410-5c06b8a8494b.jpg?w=800&h=600

So the random thoughts then...

The GT4 is quite possibly the best driving car of everything I have owned, shorter gearing and the standard I/H/E mods would make for an amazing car. Its got just the right amount of comfort/tech and the chassis/brakes are pretty much perfect.

The Audi R8... well, I'm clearly not the target audience for this car and it has really reinforced my hatred for paddle shifter transmissions. It's comfortable but not anymore comfortable than the GT4. Too much tech, I can't stand all the sub menu's on the MMI, trunk space is laughable for the "daily supercar". I'll be happy when it's sold. I also hate the people who tend to 'mir the R8, the GT3 tends to attract looks from cool enthusiast types, the R8 attracts Surrey buddy guys and other dirt ball types.

The E9X M3, well I haven't driven the latest car yet, but I'm very excited to finally get my hands on it to start the mods. Though the E9X has some faults, namely the dated tech, lack of torque and terrible gas mileage - It is IMO the absolute best value for money of sports car. Its got a great trunk decent sized interior, the car is a nice size and the power/gearing is absolutely perfect for city driving. I just can't think of a better car to buy if you want one car to do it all for <40K. Having said all that, I will get severely annoyed every time something breaks on that car, and it will break on a regular basis because BMW.

The 997 GT3 RS, well geez... Every time I drive it I just can't believe it's a road legal car, it doesn't feel like a road car. It's not a car you want to drive on a regular basis, it's a track/special drive car only. When you are in the mood to drive it, and the stars align (No traffic, good weather) it's amazing, I've yet to drive anything else that compares to the 997 GT3. Having said that, if I was picking a car strictly for driving enjoyment and I was to dismiss any consideration to looks/price/collectibility/etc. I would pick the GT4 over the 997 GT3.

Having said all that...

I tend to feel that car ownership in general is a bit of a struggle, roads are too busy to really enjoy driving, it's hard to find time to clean and maintain the cars, cost of the cars, cost of mods, cost of insurance, cost of fuel etc. There are a lot of downsides to car ownership, at least that's how I feel these days.

I find myself wanting to cycle more and drive less, driving is less enjoyable than it has ever been.

Consider that I am currently living in a swanky townhouse in Calgary with a decent sized garage that can hold all my cars/parts/tools etc. We have decided that YYC is not for us and will be returning to YVR, we know that living in YVR we want to be downtown so I will not be able to keep a garage... all of a sudden car ownership becomes even less attractive as I don't have the luxury of a garage for cleaning, modding, or parts storage etc.

So at the end of the day, I'm left wondering how bad I really want to keep screwing around with cars. In a perfect world - one without traffic, speed limits, and with continuous/convenient access to a race track maybe I would feel differently but that's just nowhere near reality.

Gas and insurance prices will continue to go up, roads will get busier and busier... long term outlook for sports car ownership seems quite negative to me.

I don't watch youtube car videos anymore, I watch cycling videos, I don't shop for car parts, I shop for bike parts.

Mehhhhh...

The original narrative of this thread remains true, expensive performance cars (Say anything over 40K) are simply not worth it for common folks, the E9X M3's give me 90% of the enjoyment that I would get out of any other car I've ever driven/owned. As time marches on I expect that margin to narrow as all cars become less enjoyable to own due to the progress of society and population growth.