[Traum]

Quebec -- WTF?!

Quebec City to ban pit bulls | CTV Montreal News (http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-city-to-ban-pit-bulls-1.2948511)

(news video clip available from the above link)


CTV Montreal
Published Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:15PM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, June 16, 2016 7:05PM EDT

The mayor of Quebec City is promising to ban pit bulls in his city by the end of the year.

Regis Labeaume made the statement Thursday.

"We made the decision yesterday at the Executive Committee meeting. It's very simple. We decided that there will be no pit bulls within Quebec City as of Jan. 1, 2017," said Labeaume.

He said that first and foremost, he was thinking of children and families and their sense of security.

"In the next six months owners of pit bulls will have to resolve their situation, and that means getting rid of their pit bulls," said Labeaume.

The move comes as Premier Philippe Couillard reiterated that the safety of the population must always come before the rights of dog owners.

In Montreal on Thursday Couillard said Quebec is "seriously" looking at following Ontario's lead in banning pit bulls in order to reduce the number of maimings and deaths caused by dogs.

"We're looking at what they did and probably we'll go in the same direction," said Couillard.

A task force may come up with regulations in the weeks to come, and legislation is expected to be tabled in the fall, in order that all dangerous dogs will be stopped.

"Ok we've dealt with this species, what about the other species that you know, three months later could also be aggressive. Let's have a comprehensive approach and be thoughtful of how we put this forward," said Couillard.

Last week a Montreal woman was killed when a pit bull escaped its yard and attacked her on her property.

I am not a pet owner myself, so I feel like I am unqualified to contribute any meaningful comment about this. I can only admit to having some rather superficial knowledge regarding the breed, with stories and facts that come from both sides of the argument.

Still, my gut feeling tells me this ban is just not right. From a policy enactment's POV, I can't understand how a government can just implement a cold hard cutoff on something that used to be perfectly legal. At a minimum, existing personnel involved and affected by the cutoff needs to be given a reasonable grace period; alternatively, exemptions and grandfather clauses needs to be given until whatever it is expires / naturally ceases to exist. Especially when the subject of concern and controversy is a living, breathing creature, we need to respect the fact that it is a life, not an instantly disposable "thing".

[Gucci Mane]

It's fucking disgusting is what it is. The worst part is that they're moving towards a province wide ban.. Feel so bad for the families who truly love their dogs. They're going to be left with life altering decisions, either pick up everything and move or surrender their dogs.

There has apprently been talks of BSL in BC too. I honestly hope nothing happens with it and it blows over. But with the way fucking politicians are, you never know.

[stewie]

I'm personally not a fan of pit bulls due to personal experiences while with my dogs at dog parks. By no means are my dogs small, but when one shows up I'm not taking another risk as to having one attack my dog again so I leave. But I don't think a ban and that the current owners should have to kill their pets or sell them off, they should be grandfathered or something along those lines.

[underscore]

What a fucking idiot. A ban is a stupid enough idea to begin with (better idea, require owners of "higher risk" dogs to take some training), but to not grandfather in existing animals is even worse.

When did Ontario ban them? Did it work? I'll bet it did jack shit, the kind of people who had pitbulls and didn't train them properly are just going to get a different breed and not train it properly.

[Nlkko]

Quebec gonna build a wall. Fucking backwards hicks.

[6o4__boi]

lol Quebec...clearly doesn't do any research
but once again leading the country in a step backward

Toronto's Pit Bull ban...:facepalm:

bit of an older article but
Toronto?s pit bulls are almost gone. So why are there more dog bites than ever? | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/2527882/torontos-pit-bulls-are-almost-gone-so-why-are-there-more-dog-bites-than-ever/)

[fliptuner]

Ban Mustangs too, while you're at it. They make people drive like douchebags.

:facepalm:

[westopher]

Disgusting. Anytime anything happens and a dog has short hair the media just labels it a pitbull anyways. Loving families will be forced to euthanize loving pets or give them up. It's absolute tyranny by the government. It should be considered a human and animal rights violation.
Euthanize the politicians responsible.

[Traum]

lol Quebec...clearly doesn't do any research
but once again leading the country in a step backward

Toronto's Pit Bull ban...:facepalm:

bit of an older article but
Toronto?s pit bulls are almost gone. So why are there more dog bites than ever? | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/2527882/torontos-pit-bulls-are-almost-gone-so-why-are-there-more-dog-bites-than-ever/)
Didn't know Onterrible is among the idiots that would support such a ban, but at least they were smart enough to grandfather all the existing owners.

And then I turn to Quebec, and I'm like... WTF... :yuno:

Euthanize the politicians responsible.
Westopher, apparently you are not the only person thinking that:

Outrage, threats in response to Quebec City pit-bull ban - Montreal - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-facebook-ban-firestorm-r%C3%A9gis-labeaume-1.3640025)


Posted: Jun 17, 2016 2:04 PM ET
Last Updated: Jun 17, 2016 2:09 PM ET

Quebec City's pit bull ban has sparked so much anger that police are concerned for the mayor's safety.

There are more than 13,000 comments in reaction to a video posted to Facebook on Thursday by Régis Labeaume in which he announces a widespread pit-bull ban in the province's capital. The comments include thinly veiled threats against the mayor.

The Quebec City ban will force current pit bull owners to get rid of their dogs by the end of the year, or face escalating fines.

...

The ban applies to all pit bulls — including those already in Quebec City. Many dog owners decried the ban, saying it leaves them with a choice to put down or abandon their dogs, or to leave the area.

Some have gone so far as to threaten the mayor. One person referred to Labeaume as a dictator and another wrote "it will take an army of pigs to protect you."

"It's fortunate that the mayor is protected by police," wrote Nicolas Paquet.

...

Given the intensity of the Facebook comments, Quebec City police officers are on the lookout for criminal threats against Labeaume.

"It's very tough for us so we have to check each comment," police spokesperson Pierre Poirier said.

He added that if anyone files a complaint with the police about threats against the mayor then police will investigate.

[full report from above link)

I wonder why there is no criminal investigation against the mayor for animal cruelty.

If any RS-ers would like to share your views and leave a comment for this idiot mayor, his Facebook page can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/RegisLabeaume.pageofficielle/?fref=ts

and his video announcement is still there on his FB wall.

[westopher]

If he truly believes he has the right to kill thousands of family members, maybe he deserves these threats.
Realistically someone as reactionary and self absorbed with their own ideologies as him, is tremendously dangerous as a person of power.
Looks like I'll be doing my best and open my home up to another pit, as I know there is going to be a massive influx of dogs into our shelter/rescue groups.

[westopher]

Also, this is of note.
Couillard says he doesn’t want to have to orchestrate a pit bull ban only to be forced to ban another equally dangerous breed the year after that. So for the next year, the province will conduct studies in order to determine which other dog breed should be banned.

These would likely include the 5 most dangerous dog breeds in the world. So if you own any of these dog breeds, you should be really worried:

Pit bull
Rottweiler
Husky
German
Chow
When is the province of quebec going to start looking at banning the ethnic group of humans responsible for the most crimes next?

[punkwax]

French Canadians systematically getting rid of mammals with bigger mouths than themselves it seems.. guess they don't want the competition. WutFace

[westopher]

Lol. Thankfully the average quebecer will fight this tooth and nail. This won't stand. If someone came to my house to take my dog from me, one of us wouldnt be leaving under our own power.

[underscore]

When is the province of quebec going to start looking at banning the ethnic group of humans responsible for the most crimes next?

I think you've figured out their secret plan. First they'll ban certain dogs to see if they can get away with it. Then once the precedence has been set, they'll move onto other things, eventually banning anyone that isn't part of the Quebecois master race. That'll be quite a few people to ban, and since they likely won't have anywhere to go I imagine they'll just round them up and put them into nice little camps or something.

[westopher]

I know I'm kind of talking to myself in this thread, but any insight I can give I'd like to share. According to the Canadian veterinary journal. Up to 2010 from 1990 there were only 32 dog related fatalities in all of Canada. Most were determined to be mixed breed dogs, Huskies, and roaming packs of sled dogs.
You are more likely to win the lottery 3 times than you are to be killed by a dog, any dog in Canada, never mind a pit.
http://www.chicobandido.com/2015/02/dbrf-201502/
This is an updated list not including the pitbull related death in Quebec as its too recent to be include on the statistics.
Seems like a witch hunt.

[Traum]

I doubt fatality (from a canine attack) is the issue or concern here -- being on the receiving end of a canine attack is traumatizing enough, and that's what most people are concerned with. Historically, the stats do seem to suggest that pitbulls are the highest -- or at least among the top -- offending breeds. But as many of us agree, the fault doesn't primarily lie with the dog, but has way more to do with how an owner trains and control the dog.

[westopher]

The difference is that people base opinion on fake stats (media) where the people that are opposed to this ban, like the spca, vets, dog trainers, use real statistics, like the Canadian veterinary journal.

[DragonChi]

Not going to lie, before watching the movie, The Champions, on netflix, I thought temperament for dogs was related to breed. I've come to realize that it's not the case, and the only thing breed has to do with these bans would be the potential to do damage.

Most of the dogs on the ban list are big. But what they really need is stricter owner selection. On the other hand, that would be to hard to implement.

[stewie]

Read an article in the province today about this. With the current pitbulls it said they'll take temporary measures such as sterilization, muzzling in public, and being microchipped. Other measures will be significant increase of fines and people with a "dangerous dog" will have to make sure their yard/living space has a fence/barrier that meets a safety norm.

Hopefully they won't be killing any of them

[westopher]

Wether they kill them directly or not, this legeslation will kill thousands of dogs by deeming dogs as unadoptable for reasons of how they look rather than actual behavioural characteristics of dogs. BSL kills good dogs. There is absolutely no denying that.
Also Stewie, I believe you are getting Montreals new copycat laws rules confused with the laws that quebec city instated which involves removal or euthanization.

[swiftshift]

Seem's like Quebec is becoming so exclusive.

[stewie]

Westopher, I reread the article and yes,you were correct! I was misreading it!

[westopher]

As I said, both are ridiculous and will lead to thousands of innocent dogs killed, but the Quebec city law HAS to be against some sort of law to pass something so ridiculous without any due process.

[westopher]

Not going to lie, before watching the movie, The Champions, on netflix, I thought temperament for dogs was related to breed. I've come to realize that it's not the case, and the only thing breed has to do with these bans would be the potential to do damage.

Most of the dogs on the ban list are big. But what they really need is stricter owner selection. On the other hand, that would be to hard to implement.
It wouldn't be hard to do some sort of licensing programs for animals similar to drivers licenses. It could cost quite a bit of money, but could also bring in enough revenue to pay for it if done properly.
That said, everyone who owns a dog, not just pits should be required to take it, as plenty of dipshits are incapable of taking care of the dogs they own, big or small.
Monty has been attacked by 3 off leash dogs, none of them pitbulls, while he was on leash.
A shepherd looking mutt that was about 30-40 lbs more than him, a sharpei, and a black lab, who actually attacked him twice in succession. Going for a bite, being warned off by Monty, then coming back and biting him on the neck before I kicked it.
They were all owned by fucking idiots, and the dogs actions have no bearing on wether their breeds are safe or not, because when improperly handled, trained, and treated, all dogs have potential to be dangerous.

[Gucci Mane]

after reading westophers post about them possibly banning other breeds that have been deemed "dangerous" i just dont even know what to say. what kind of sane individual thinks okay to rip someones family member away from them with out any kind of real merit?

i'm getting all emotional now..

honestly in the past none of this would have bothered me, at all. i was never a dog person, i kind of liked them and thought they were cool. i was just not educated on them, didn't know that they could be such loyal companions. now thats all obviously changed, i love my dog knight like he's my own child.

before i got him in 2012 i was a fucking mess. suffered from depression, was self medicating and it just burned me the fuck out. then when he came into my life, i started to learn what loving something unconditionally was all about. because of him i've learned a lot about myself and he's also taught me a bunch too. his cute little face has brought so much laughter and happiness into mine and my families lives. i literally owe him my life.

If someone came to my house to take my dog from me, one of us wouldnt be leaving under our own power.

you're damn fucking right. no one is taking my dog from me unless they're prying him from my cold dead hands.

[DragonChi]

It wouldn't be hard to do some sort of licensing programs for animals similar to drivers licenses. It could cost quite a bit of money, but could also bring in enough revenue to pay for it if done properly.
That said, everyone who owns a dog, not just pits should be required to take it, as plenty of dipshits are incapable of taking care of the dogs they own, big or small.
Monty has been attacked by 3 off leash dogs, none of them pitbulls, while he was on leash.
A shepherd looking mutt that was about 30-40 lbs more than him, a sharpei, and a black lab, who actually attacked him twice in succession. Going for a bite, being warned off by Monty, then coming back and biting him on the neck before I kicked it.
They were all owned by fucking idiots, and the dogs actions have no bearing on wether their breeds are safe or not, because when improperly handled, trained, and treated, all dogs have potential to be dangerous.

I agree that licensing would cost more, and in turn would stave away the idiots wouldn't treat and train them as the family members they should be. The cost of buy a dog should be a lot more than what it is now, most of the cost going to training and making sure the dog gets into a good home. There are dogs out there, just like people, that have a mean streak that don't get along with other dogs, people, or both. I don't think they can be all painted with the same brush, but with training, I bet a lot of aggression can be minimized.

[vitaminG]

Wouldn't be surprised to see something like this locally. Would be interested to see objective data from other areas with bans in place. I suspect that pitbulls are responsible for a disproportionate amount of bites and severe injuries.

I saw what was posted about Ontario and I see that bites from other breeds went up. But I know I'd much rather be attacked by a golden or a gsd. You can't deny what pitbulls were bred for and they can physically do a lot more damage than other breeds.

'Dog hunt' underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman (http://www.theprovince.com/touch/news/crime/hunt+underway+surrey+bull+that+attacked+woman/11999311/story.html?rel=838332)

Robin Elgie finally home after devastating dog attack - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/robin-elgie-dog-attack-fort-st-john-mauling-b-c-1.3486285)

[westopher]

Well its already been determined by a witness that the dog today was an american bulldog, so theres that. Perfect example of why people are afraid of these dogs. Because as soon as any dog bites, they claim its a pitbull.
People, especially the media, need to shut the fuck up about shit they know nothing about.
Guess what, this isn't a pitbull, but thats what its called as soon as it bites. Thats why the general public should have no bearing on these discriminatory laws. Because they don't know fuck all.
http://www.dogwallpapers.net/wallpapers/american-bulldog-in-the-snow.jpg
Oh yeah, and the second article you posted, also, the bylaw department determined both the dogs breed was also american bulldog.
So both of the articles you posted, about 3 attacking dogs the public believes are pitbulls, none of them are. Shouldn't that have some bearing on this situation?

[westopher]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/52/85/6c/52856c41435fd5fe2ae8d557da26e265.jpg
Also, under the breed specific laws that quebec is implementing, all these dogs must be killed, or removed from the province, and all are identified as pitbulls. The one that looks least like a pit, with the curly hair actually has measurable staffy DNA which is hilarious
http://love-a-bull.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Visual-ID_Pit-bull.jpg

[underscore]

Wouldn't be surprised to see something like this locally. Would be interested to see objective data from other areas with bans in place. I suspect that pitbulls are responsible for a disproportionate amount of bites and severe injuries.

I saw what was posted about Ontario and I see that bites from other breeds went up. But I know I'd much rather be attacked by a golden or a gsd. You can't deny what pitbulls were bred for and they can physically do a lot more damage than other breeds.

'Dog hunt' underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman (http://www.theprovince.com/touch/news/crime/hunt+underway+surrey+bull+that+attacked+woman/11999311/story.html?rel=838332)

Robin Elgie finally home after devastating dog attack - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/robin-elgie-dog-attack-fort-st-john-mauling-b-c-1.3486285)

Assuming by gsd you mean German Shepard, they're involved in more biting incidents and do similar damage to a pitbull. Have you never seen one of those videos of a police dog in action?

This is the only pitbull anybody should be banning

http://ticketcrusader.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pitbull.png

[whitev70r]

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

Surrey pit bull attack leaves woman with serious injuries - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/surrey-pit-bull-attack-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries-1.3644262)

A 65-year-old woman was taken to hospital with serious injuries after being attacked by a dog outside a convenience store in the 9100 block of 120 Street in Surrey.

Police say the woman was walking in the area "when she was attacked, unprovoked, by an unleashed grey and white pit bull dog."

The dog and its owner have not been located and police are investigating whether they fled the scene.

The owner is described as Caucasian male, late 30s to 40s, heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and black baseball hat.

[originalhypa]

Dear Pit Bull lovers.
Now you know how it feels to be a lawful gun owner in Canada. I'm sorry you're going through the same bullshit that we are.

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

well said.

[westopher]

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

Surrey pit bull attack leaves woman with serious injuries - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/surrey-pit-bull-attack-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries-1.3644262)

A 65-year-old woman was taken to hospital with serious injuries after being attacked by a dog outside a convenience store in the 9100 block of 120 Street in Surrey.

Police say the woman was walking in the area "when she was attacked, unprovoked, by an unleashed grey and white pit bull dog."

The dog and its owner have not been located and police are investigating whether they fled the scene.

The owner is described as Caucasian male, late 30s to 40s, heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and black baseball hat.
If you would read you'd already know that it's been determined by a witness who has met the suspect that it's an American bulldog. Fucking idiots who spread "news" around without checking real facts who are on a witch hunt are the reason I have the threat of a family member being taken away from me.

[westopher]

Dear Pit Bull lovers.
Now you know how it feels to be a lawful gun owner in Canada. I'm sorry you're going through the same bullshit that we are.



well said.
Comparing a gun to a living animal is painfully stupid.
That said I'd welcome special licensing for any large dog.

[originalhypa]

Comparing a gun to a living animal is painfully stupid.
That said I'd welcome special licensing for any large dog.

Really?
Do you want to get into this with me, even though I'm supporting Pit Bulls?

fuck...... here goes.

I've owned two pits in my time. One was the sweetest dog in the world. The other, well, he was insane. He was bred to protect a drug house, and I got him as a rescue. We spent the best part of a year trying to rehab him, with no luck. And why? Because he was trained to be a weapon. A fucking weapon.....

Now the other pit, he was a sweet animal. Raised from a pup by us, he had a heart of gold. So nurture overcame nature that time.

Let's look at the history of pits, shall we.....

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined the gameness and agility of the terrier with the strength of the bulldog. In the United Kingdom, these dogs were used in blood sports such as bull-baiting, bear-baiting and cock fighting.

oooh, rough history there..... let's go on, shall we.

These blood sports were officially eliminated in 1835 as Britain began to introduce animal welfare laws. Since dogfights were cheaper to organize and far easier to conceal from the law than bull or bear baits, blood sport proponents turned to pitting their dogs against each other instead. Dog fighting was used as both a blood sport (often involving gambling) and a way to continue to test the quality of their stock. For decades afterwards, dog fighting clandestinely took place in small areas of Britain and America. In the early 20th century pit bulls were used as catch dogs in America for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, and drive livestock, and as family companions.[3] Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.[4][5]

As you may have heard, dog fighting is still quite popular in the southern US. What's the main breed for fighting?

It's the Pit Bull.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/20/article-2345450-1A6D9822000005DC-334_306x423.jpg

There are a lot of nice pit bulls out there. But also a lot of mean ones as this poor woman in Surrey found out. The difference comes down to not only the owner, but also the dog's personality and bloodline. Kind of like gun owners, if you think about it.

edit: thanks for removing your fail. I'm trying to get rid of the fails. They do nothing to promote good conversation.

[westopher]

A lot of mean ones is pretty generous numbers wise. How many pits, or dogs like pits are in the Gvrd?
How many bite?
How many are actually even pitbulls?

You can talk all you want about bloodlines from 1893, but do you seriously think this law targets purebred fighting pits? No chance.
It targets every short haired mutt in the shelter system.
There was no nurture overcoming nature. It was simply a product of both. There was no nature involved in the other rescue other than its strength. It was simply new nurture couldn't overcome old nurture from its formative years.

[originalhypa]

That dog was broken from the start, that's for sure.
So what to do with an animal like that? We sent him to a farm up north, where he was going to protect the livestock. I never heard from him again, but what is the alternative? To put those problem dogs down? I hate to say it, but there aren't many farms up north willing to take troubled animals. That may be the only alternative.

But in this case, regardless of breed the gov't needs to step in and not allow problem owners to have dogs anymore. If you have a history with animals attacking, you have shown that you're not a responsible dog owner and you shouldn't be allowed to own even a pomeranian.

But that would be hard to enforce.

[westopher]

I'd like to be very clear here, if a dog is proven a threat, I think they should be put down. I'm not a "save all dogs" kind of activist. I understand what being realistic about the situation entail.
That said, a dog being a pitbull, or looking like a pitbull, is not a fair basis for determining if it is a threat. That's what BSL is about. Laziness to bandaid a problem.

[whitev70r]

If you would read you'd already know that it's been determined by a witness who has met the suspect that it's an American bulldog. Fucking idiots who spread "news" around without checking real facts who are on a witch hunt are the reason I have the threat of a family member being taken away from me.

Source? Every article I read says it was a Pit Bull.

[westopher]

That's because it's a witness account personally on FB. According to media it's the same thing anyways, so don't expect a retraction. It's just like last year when the "pitbull" killed the cocker spaniel in Yaletown. It was a mastiff/lab cross. After everyone forgot about it global posted the "new" facts somewhere buried on the bottom of their website. People love to hate shit, so as long as PITBULL ATTACK generates shares and ad revenue, every dog bite starts out as a pitbull.
Edit: excuse my first response, as unless you were fully reading my posts you'd have no reason to know that, but seeing people perpetuate the circle of bullshit about these dogs gets me absolutely fuming.
Think if someone judged your family member as dangerous and suggesting that they be banned and/or killed simply because they shared physical characteristics with a FEW bad dogs out of literally hundreds of thousands. That's not ok.

[Gucci Mane]

and one of my worst nightmare's just may become a reality. fucking great...

SURREY — Surrey’s mayor says the city will be reviewing its dangerous dog bylaw following two attacks in just 10 days.

“When you see it on the news, you wonder what the pulse of the community is,” Mayor Linda Hepner told the Now on Tuesday. “Are our penalties stiff enough?… What else could our bylaw be saying that could potentially keep us safer from the kind of attacks we saw yesterday?”

Hepner was referring to a dog attack outside the Mac’s convenience store at 92nd Avenue and Scott Road Monday morning, where Surrey RCMP say an off-leash dog attacked a 65-year-old woman.

A store clerk told the Now that the damage to the woman’s arm was so bad he could see her bone. Surrey RCMP say the woman was taken to hospital with injuries to her forearm.

Police say the dog's owner, who was inside the Mac's store at the time of the attack, grabbed his dog and ran away.

RCMP are working with the City of Surrey’s Animal Control office to find the dog and owner. He is described as a Caucasian male, late 30s to early 40s, with a heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and a black baseball hat.

Anyone with more information is asked to contact the Surrey RCMP at 604-599-0502 or Crime Stoppers, if they wish to remain anonymous, at 1-800-222-TIPS or go to solvecrime.ca.

Ten days earlier, on June 10, four women were rushed to hospital after they tried to break up three pit bulls who were fighting. Media reports say the dogs were put down.

Hepner said so far, she’s hearing from the community that most people hold the dog owners responsible, as opposed to a particular breed of dog. But she plans to bring the matter up at Monday’s council meeting and has a meeting with the city’s bylaw manager earlier that day.

“That would be the least we could expect,” she said. “I will ask staff to re-examine our existing bylaw.”

Hepner said she’d want to consider everything before looking at an outright ban on a particular breed, adding she wants experts in animal control to weigh in.

“My brother had a pit bull for 20 years and that dog was the most docile, gentle animal,” said Hepner. “But I can tell you they spent a lot of time with that dog… Even good responsible owners, if it turns, what it the catalyst? How do you control that?”

SIMPSON: I've lost patience for hypocritical mourners and entitled dog owners

This isn’t the first time the city has had to reconsider this particular bylaw.

Surrey’s bylaw manager Jas Rehal said most municipalities used to mention specific breeds in their bylaw, but around 2000, many began changing the wording to “dangerous dog” instead of just certain types.

“From our perspective the dangerous dog bylaw is good because it covers all breeds,” noted Rehal. “There are some dogs that are the bigger ones and are concerning to people but there are also smaller dogs that are very aggressive too, so this covers them all.”

Rehal said Surrey had 327 reported dog attacks in 2015 but added that those range from a dog lunging at another dog to full-on attacks like seen in Surrey recently.

“So these can be very minor,” he said.

So far this year, 165 dog attacks have been reported in Surrey, Rehal added.

Currently, Surrey’s bylaw defines a “dangerous dog” as one who has “attacked, bitten or caused injury to a person or has demonstrated a propensity, tendency or disposition to do so; a dog that, while running at large, has attacked, bitten, killed or caused injury to a domestic animal” or a dog that has attacked a person without being provoked.

If a dog has been impounded three times within two years or the owner has received three tickets for the dog “running at large” within two years, it is also considered dangerous.

If dogs considered dangerous attack someone and are impounded, the fee to get the animal back is $5,000. And if it has injures someone, the pound keeper can detain the dog to seek an order to have it destroyed. If the order isn’t granted, the owner must pay a $5,000 fee to get it back.

Dangerous dogs are also subject to higher licensing fees in Surrey. Licences for neutered dogs cost $41.50 in Surrey while licences for dangerous dogs cost $268.

Meanwhile, Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre is seeking a ban on pit bulls and other dangerous breeds after a woman was killed after being mauled by an aggressive dog. The ban could be instituted as early as September.

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/news/383869261.html

[westopher]

Whatever, its not going to happen here. Don't worry. The one positive in a city full of rich people, is you end up with a city full of people that can afford to be educated.
Only idiots believe a ban will have a positive effect. I know plenty of animal control workers, vets, and police that will be happy to lie and register Knight as a Lab mix if the worst case scenario happens.
If a different licensing program for large breeds ends up in effect, I welcome it.

The real way to start solving this problem is start putting people in jail for having serious incidents with their dogs. I'm not talking about a scuffle. I'm talking about unlicensed, untrained offleash powerful dogs being allowed to be put into dangerous situations.

[westopher]

From what you've posted that sounds fairly promising. Neither of the people in the article seem interested in scapegoating a specific breed.

[Gucci Mane]

From what you've posted that sounds fairly promising. Neither of the people in the article seem interested in scapegoating a specific breed.

yeah this article actually put me at ease a bit because i heard about this from ctv news and started freaking out.

i did really like reading this part. shes not stupid and understands what these dogs are actually like.

Hepner said she’d want to consider everything before looking at an outright ban on a particular breed, adding she wants experts in animal control to weigh in.

“My brother had a pit bull for 20 years and that dog was the most docile, gentle animal,” said Hepner. “But I can tell you they spent a lot of time with that dog… Even good responsible owners, if it turns, what it the catalyst? How do you control that?”

[Inaii]

If they're going to ban pits, why not ban chihuahuas or lhasa apsos too? The ONLY time I've ever been attacked by a dog, was by a small breed.

[stewie]

Assuming by gsd you mean German Shepard, they're involved in more biting incidents and do similar damage to a pitbull. Have you never seen one of those videos of a police dog in action?



Aren't police German Shepherds specifically trained to neutralize someone as quickly as possible? If I was a police officer and had some guy hiding with a gun, I'd much rather have an agile speedy dog take him out than risk myself going in. Police dogs can be replaced, you can't.

[westopher]

I don't think that's what he was getting at at all. He's saying shepherds can do more damage than a pitbull. They are 40lbs heavier and have 100 more PSI of bite pressure than pits. I certainly wouldn't want to end up on the bad side of either.
Monty is a mix of both according to the shelter, so he is some kind of super killing machine haha.

[originalhypa]

If they're going to ban pits, why not ban chihuahuas or lhasa apsos too? The ONLY time I've ever been attacked by a dog, was by a small breed.

When I was a kid, I used to get chased around by my neighbours nasty little miniature pinscher whenever I rode past his house. That was a mean little dog, jumping and snapping at my legs. But as an adult, I realize that he weighs about 5 lbs. I could literally pick him up, and throw him into a large body of water now. So while I agree that little dogs are the devil, the size and strength of a large breed makes a big difference.

I read some insteresting stats yesterday on dog attacks. The top was the Pit Bull, but there were a number of attacks by shepherds and border collies in there.

It's in here. I can't link to scribd. Don't know how..... FailFish

Numbers reveal Vancouver dog attacks were led by "bully breed" pit bulls | iNews880 (http://www.inews880.com/syn/112/194620/numbers-reveal-vancouver-dog-attacks-were-lead-by-bully-breed-pit-bulls)


There's one Cane Corso attack in there. That's a big dog!!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/CaneCorso_(23).jpg

The attack was against another animal though. I like to think that it swallowed a min pin whole.
:badpokerface:

[stewie]

I wouldn't want to be on either side either.

I get that GSD's are much heavier and have a much higher biting force(mine is 130 lb male), but when it comes to breed related attacks pit bulls outweigh every other breed it seems.

Everything I say though is most likely biased due to having my dogs attacked at dog parks by pit bulls. On a separate occasion when I was at a co workers house a few years ago sitting in a lawn chair having a beer in his front yard and the house across the street had their front door wide open and had no fence. It was roughly 3:30, and a guy roughly 15/16 years old was walking on the side walk coming home from school, and the dog comes charging out barking at the kid. Obviously the kid was scared shitless, jumped on the hood of the car that was in front of the house, set off the alarm, and the owner finally came out screaming at the kid to quit teasing his dog.

Shitty owner? yes
Unprovoked reason for a dog to try to get the kid? yes
Ban the breed? no
Do something to make it safer for people? yes (mandatory fence if in a house with a yard or something to prevent a dog from escaping. That goes for all dogs labeled as dangerous for all I car)

again, I don't support the ban, but I do think some things need to be done. Not just for this one specific breed, but any "dangerous" breed.

[underscore]

When I was a kid, I used to get chased around by my neighbours nasty little miniature pinscher whenever I rode past his house. That was a mean little dog, jumping and snapping at my legs. But as an adult, I realize that he weighs about 5 lbs. I could literally pick him up, and throw him into a large body of water now. So while I agree that little dogs are the devil, the size and strength of a large breed makes a big difference.

True, but for a small kid a smaller dog can still hurt them, especially if it bites them in the face.

I wouldn't want to be on either side either.

I get that GSD's are much heavier and have a much higher biting force(mine is 130 lb male), but when it comes to breed related attacks pit bulls outweigh every other breed it seems.

Pitbulls get more media coverage, but I remember finding a stat a few years back (so it may have changed now) showing that GSD's were involved in more attacks than pitbulls. That policy in Surrey sounds pretty good, at least from what that article tells.

[originalhypa]

True, but for a small kid a smaller dog can still hurt them, especially if it bites them in the face.

I could always get away from him. But my sister wasn't as strong a rider as I was, so when she was biking with me I'd have to put myself between her and the little devil dog.

So many nip marks and ripped socks......

[vitaminG]

this was linked from a news article today, this statistic seems reasonably well sourced.

there has been much talk about this issue on the radio and news lately. all i can say is most people i know who own pitbulls/mastiffs and similar breeds have no business owning any dog let alone one of those. at the very least there needs to be much stricter licensing requirements and enforcement.


42 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2014. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 64% (27) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.

2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org (http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2014.php)

[westopher]

We're those dogs DNA tested?
Here's a good article about how statistics can drastically change when you use umbrella terms like "pitbull" to speak about a very large group of dogs, then use the term "pitbull" in a literal sense when measuring the amount of actual pitbulls in the United States. It's easy to manipulate.
http://blog.hugabull.com/a-closer-look-at-bite-numbers/

I just saw you posted a dogsbite.org website after writing this. It's been a well known statistic manipulator and has been condemned by the entire American veterinary community. It's like sharing information about gay marriage from conservativetribune.com

The only statistics that matter are those related to dog bites from the CDC or veterinary association as they have no hidden agenda in their numbers.

[Lomac]

Pitbull ban? Over my dead body.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/lomac20/DSC00154_zpstcxfk96x.jpg

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12650823_10153884720732629_8992188710722322868_n.j pg?oh=198ebad0a1115dc6a63f775322abf4fc&oe=58003F15

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11059616_10153179283597629_6502250618926073755_n.j pg?oh=db2cc96d1e812e575ec424e6ec84e670&oe=5809E071

And yes, one of those (the larger one) was a rescue from an abusive home. Still has a scar on his forehead even after 6 years.

[westopher]

A spokesperson for Vancouver animal control said Vancouver is absolutely not considering BSL.
Also, at a surrey council meeting tonight the mayor said they are looking at updating their dangerous animal bylaws, with no consideration of it being breed specific.
After that was determined, CBC posted a story saying "surrey considering a breed ban."
If that isn't definitive proof of media bias and irresponsible journalism, I don't know what is. Proof that media is simply conjuring up hate to get clicks for their shitty ad revenue, instead of real consideration of these archaic and lazy ideas that make up the (proven failure) BSL. Either way pitbull owners....sleep well, hug your dog, and do your absolute hardest to be a positive force in the representation of these dogs.
Fuck BSL, and fuck the ignorance that it represents.
Goodnight from Monty.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13310510_10153599527581845_993126361680312232_n.jp g?oh=e487670a273866ac2bdd1db5022631c8&oe=58375960

[Traum]

A spokesperson for Vancouver animal control said Vancouver is absolutely not considering BSL.
Also, at a surrey council meeting tonight the mayor said they are looking at updating their dangerous animal bylaws, with no consideration of it being breed specific.
After that was determined, CBC posted a story saying "surrey considering a breed ban."

When garbage like that happens, the only things I can think of doing are:

1) public shaming
2) angry letters to lambaste their a$$

In the last few years, I find that I have been doing more of both #1 and #2 compared to my pre-30 years. Maybe it is my menopause, or maybe it is my thinning and receding hairline, but whatever... Most of the time, neither method is all that effective. Sometimes you get a standard PR blurb back from the communications office / officer, and a lot of times, you just get nothing. But every now and then, I do see a bit of a change, or a touch of concession. I would certainly not attribute this to my one-off angry writing, but at least I'd like to believe that I am not the only one getting upset over this, and a mass of similar public input has at least caused the other end to realize their incorrect ways.

The system sucks when you have to make noise to get the changes happening. But if that's what it takes, then that's what we'll have to do. I have very little patience for politicians and large organizations.