[MarkyMark]

Well that was a lot closer than expected. I really hope the Liberals don't squeak out of this with a majority.

[Hondaracer]

Libs should just give in to some of the greens platform and move forward with them

[MrPhreak]

Libs should just give in to some of the greens platform and move forward with them

Depends on how reasonable they are about it... with the NDP pandering to them as well, they might just use it as a means to go nuts and hijack the government

If that happens, the Liberals would have to sell out their voters just to stay in power.

Might be better to let the professional sell-outs at the NDP to eat that bullet, and then in 6 months when everything is going to compete shit, people who have never experienced an NDP government will get a taste of the damage they do whenever they get into power. After the inevitable break-up with the Greens, a snap election would mean the Liberals can come back in with a stronger majority


Really, if this ends up being a minority government... whomever sells out to the Greens to cling to power is going to get blamed for the resulting mess and voted out shortly down the road.

[jasonturbo]

I wonder if any of the NDP party members would cross the floor to give the libs majority...?

[Rallydrv]

^ committing political suicide

[Blueboy222]

:alone:

[Armind]

So... do we still get Uber?

[quasi]

So... do we still get Uber?

Probably collaborate with Greens for a Rickshaw version of it, much more environmentally sound. :)

[jackmeister]

All Liberals need is 10 votes more than NDP in that Comox riding and we have a majority government.

How would this have looked if they used the new voting method? is there an accurate methodology to convert?

[Traum]

Was just listening to a university poli sci prof on News1130 saying that even with a razor thin 44 seat majority, the government can still get voted down in a vote of non-confidence in a number of ways. The NDP can insist that the Speaker be drawn from the Liberals pool, and then there'd be 1 less vote for the Libs. Or if anyone (from the Libs side) is away for whatever reason during a major piece of policy presentation (eg. budget?), the opposition can capitalize on the opportunity and call for mutiny of sorts.

Personally, I don't expect another election for at least 12+ months, or however long it takes for the 2nd budget to be tabled. Everyone involved generally try to play nice during the 1st year because they know voter fatigue can come back to bite them hard. So until the 2nd budget comes, I don't expect any of the opposition to flip table and try to overthrow the Libs.

Like many of you, my big question is -- how much is Crusty willing to bend over to applease Weaver? (Oh man... that conjures such a FailFish image in my head now... )

[carisear]

Sigh, I was hoping to finally be able to scroll through fb and see the important stuff -- dailyhive clickbait, cute panda videos, tasty recipes, etc, but nope, still will have to see election stuff for another 2 weeks ... and then again in 18 months when the gov't falls.

One can only hope that there will be a new liberal leader, that doesn't suck.

[6o4__boi]

Like many of you, my big question is -- how much is Crusty willing to bend over to applease Weaver? (Oh man... that conjures such a FailFish image in my head now... )

Maybe she already has...


https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2013/03/10/bc_liberals_struggling_to_contain_controversy_over _leaked_multicultural_strategy/christy_clark.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/johv102401788_high.jpg?crop=0px%2C27px%2C650px%2C4 33px&resize=720%2C480&quality=70&strip=all&ssl=1

[MrPhreak]

BUMP:

Getting close to some final results for the election. So far, for all of the riding recounts, no change to the winner.

The only wild card is the Comox/Courtney riding, which was only separated by 9 votes in favour of the NDP, then after a formal recount that was completed yesterday, it was separated by 13 votes still in favour of the NDP. Then the counting of absentee ballots started (about 2000), and after just over half being counted the NDP are now up about 100.

So with ~900 left, we should find out at 10:00am tomorrow who will take the riding.

MORE: http://globalnews.ca/news/3472123/b-c-election-2017-vote-count-tightens-in-b-c-s-courtenay-comox/

If you are not sure what this means, basically this riding is the difference between a Liberal majority, and a Liberal minority.

If the Liberals take the seat, then they don't really have to talk to the Greens anymore, and it will be business as usual for BC. However, if the NDP take this seat, the Liberals will need to get support from the Green party to remain in power.

This is speculative, but personally I think that if the NDP do take this seat, they will sell their soul to the Green party for the chance to hijack the BC parliament and form a coalition government with John Horgan as the Premier.

It is hard to say exactly what concessions they will make, but I would think a much heavier carbon tax than they originally proposed, major and unrelenting action will be implemented to curb real estate speculation, cancellation of all LNG projects and likely site-C dam, among other heavy handed taxes against resource based industries. The only major thing that the NDP and Greens disagree strongly on is bridge tolls... the NDP want them gone, the Greens want more to try and deter people from driving. IMO it isn't a sticking point for the Greens, and the NDP need that promise to stay in place to keep face with the voters.

[Traum]

I don't know what's worse -- a Liberal or NDP minority government. The only thing I am certain of is that a Liberal majority would be worse than either of those.

[Ch28]

This is speculative, but personally I think that if the NDP do take this seat, they will sell their soul to the Green party for the chance to hijack the BC parliament and form a coalition government with John Horgan as the Premier.

It is hard to say exactly what concessions they will make, but I would think a much heavier carbon tax than they originally proposed, major and unrelenting action will be implemented to curb real estate speculation, cancellation of all LNG projects and likely site-C dam, among other heavy handed taxes against resource based industries. The only major thing that the NDP and Greens disagree strongly on is bridge tolls... the NDP want them gone, the Greens want more to try and deter people from driving. IMO it isn't a sticking point for the Greens, and the NDP need that promise to stay in place to keep face with the voters.

Reposting this from election night

Andrew Weaver said that the Greens will only form a coalition if 3 conditions are met:

1. Ban corporate donation
2. Increase education funding
3. Electoral reform with better representation

NDP has said they want 1 and 3 while Liberals don't (I'm not sure about 2)

Liberals said 2 was "doable" but Liberals have a history of fucking over nurses and teachers...so yeah.

Out of all three parties, it looks like Greens and NDP are most likely to form a coalition

[adambomb]

Its official. :drama:


VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Recount results, including absentee ballots, indicate Premier Christy Clark will hold on to her minority Liberal government.

In a statement, Clark says with 43 BC Liberal candidates elected as MLAs, and a plurality in the legislature, her party has a responsibility to move forward and form a government.


Minority Liberal government holds - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/05/24/final-absentee-ballot-counts-bc-election-expected-today/)

[Traum]

It's a moot point that Crusty gets first crack at forming government, because the real kingmaker is Weaver and the Greens. I know Ch28 has brought up the point that the Greens seem more likely to form government with the NDP based on previous indications, but there is no telling what sort of concessions the Libs (or the NDP, for that matter) will make in order to stay in office.

So it really is a matter of :drama: ...

[MrPhreak]

Horgan had a huge shit eating smile and all but blurted out they had a deal with the Greens... basically he does't care what concessions he has to make, or how much green dick he has to suck, just as long as he gets into power.

Prepare your anus... it is going to be a rough 18 months

[MelonBoy]

^
Id like to think with NPD's experience of running government and green actually being able to put some good ideas and plans together. They might work as a good team?

Imo. Stances from for both party were
NPD - Has shit plans and seems to fuck up a lot
Green - Inexperienced and not ready to run but had good ideas/plans
Could work for the better lololol.. hopefully

[CRS]

Horgan had a huge shit eating smile and all but blurted out they had a deal with the Greens... basically he does't care what concessions he has to make, or how much green dick he has to suck, just as long as he gets into power.

Prepare your anus... it is going to be a rough 18 months

That's not at all what he said.

He said he is negotiating with the Greens but that as of today, no deal has been made.

Weaver said that he is negotiating with both Libs and NDP and said next Wednesday is the deadline.

[MrPhreak]

That's not at all what he said.

He said he is negotiating with the Greens but that as of today, no deal has been made.

Weaver said that he is negotiating with both Libs and NDP and said next Wednesday is the deadline.

I kind of disagree, and I will explain why I think that. I watched the interview with Horgan a few times and the type of language he was using was suggesting that he had brokered a deal, but he wasn't allowed to confirm it.

In fact, the exact quote involved a very specific reference to having a "framework", which indicates they have a structured deal made already, but are still working on some of the details.

As we all pretty much know, what politicians say is often very different from what they do. Horgan however is not as disciplined in holding in his emotions though, so if you watched his body language, it is abundantly clear that he is practically bursting trying to hold in "I'm finally going to be premier!".

Weaver is a lot smarter than Horgan, and he is also much better at playing his cards close to his chest. Likely he has given an ultimatum to the Liberals already requiring them to agree to certain demands in exchange for support, and that is why he can offer such a short window for the decision. If the Liberals take it, he wins by making them commit political suicide... if they don't take it, the NDP has already caved to those demands and then some. It will be less popular with voters, but it is the path of least resistance.

Ch28 posted some of the demands that Weaver had made on election day (thanks for that), and I can guarantee that there is a much longer wish list that the NDP has already agreed to behind closed doors.

You of course can take what politicians are saying at face value, but judging from the politics being played right now in front of the camera, the deal between the NDP and Greens is already done.

[MarkyMark]

NDP and Greens to make an announcement at 2pm.

Who wants some faster ferries?

[EmperorIS]

buhbye Liberal Government

[Mr.HappySilp]

buhbye Liberal Government

Hello to economy crush 2017. It will be pretty funny if their term got cut short coz they did such a shitty job and Libeiral came in with a great majority in 12 months.

[Manic!]

Yaaa!!! for $15 min wage!!!! It's actually going to be good for business. Shops that are not doing that well will close down and the shops that are doing well will take there customers. 2 gas stations has closed down in our area with one more competitor to go.

[Armind]

No Uber.

[Traum]

No Uber.
I wouldn't quite say there will be no Uber for sure. At the time of the announcement, the NDP just said they will look into the issue. The cabbies will definitely cry foul of how Uber will destroy their livelihood. It will be up to the rest of the citizens to yell louder than the taxi drivers so that Horgan will cave.

One outcome I can expect is -- all public sector unions worth their salt will seize the opportunity to negotiate a nice, long CBA with the NDP minority gov. I wouldn't say this is necessarily a bad thing, since the Liberals have been playing hardball with all public sector unions (except for nurses) with zero or minimal wage increases after the Winter Olympics contract negotiations. On the other hand, the $15 min wage stuff is really going to hurt a lot of small businesses.

With a minority government in place, I suspect public sentiments will matter more than it has ever been for the past 60+ years.

[68style]

Uber :lawl:

Who cares, isn't it mostly tourists benefitting from Uber anyway? As a resident here I've needed to take a taxi like once in the last 10 years, big deal. I would imagine most people are in a similar situation... unless they're raging alcoholics.

[EmperorIS]

Yea, screw uber in Vancouver. I rather them be pressured into investing more in to public transportation. Need more Skytrain with station malls.

[Tapioca]

So, like, am I now going to be able to buy a detached house? Will this coalition drive out all of the speculators and facilitate a crash in housing prices?

[CivicBlues]

George Massey Bridge bye bye as well. Get used to gridlock everywhere.

Although the economy may crash and commercial activity come to a screeching halt resulting in better traffic outcomes :smug:

[Liquid_o2]

Uber is the last thing I'm worried about. More concerned about housing, public transportation, and putting money into our education system. Liberals didn't care about major issues for their residents, which is why we are in this political mess in the first place.

This is going to get very interesting. Likely no crash in housing prices in the short term, unless a 30% speculation tax comes forward in the next week. Enabling any policy out of a minority government will likely take a while. What happens next year remains to be seen.

[Traum]

Can the Massey Tunnel replacement bridge still get cancelled? I thought the project has already started on the early stages prep work, and I don't really expect the NDP would bother to put the brakes on the project altogether, although it might revise the plans to work with the municipal governments more.

[Tapioca]

We'll probably get some form of electoral reform soon. We'll also get some sort of initiative to reduce the amount of money from corporate donors (but not union donors) soon too. A 2% property tax surcharge will hurt a lot of young families who have ridden the property wave and are at reduced incomes due to raising children at home. So will capital gain taxes on people who wish to make the upgrade to larger homes within less than 5 years.

$10 daycare will remain a pipe dream. Elimination of tolls will saddle the provincial treasury with more debt. We probably still won't see much on public transit since neither party actively campaigned on improving the funding and governance model for Translink. We might get token investments in education that really won't do much to alleviate student crowding in downtown Vancouver and in communities like Clayton Heights and Willoughby.

[Liquid_o2]

It could potentially be cancelled. Not actual construction has begun yet. It would save a ton of money to cancel, compared to building it.

[inv4zn]

Genuine question for those of you who are predicting chaos.

I immigrated here in 97 and was much to young to care about politics and all that, but everyone who was old enough to know, and lived through the "dark ages" of NDP rule seem to think we are now completely fucked.

My question is, isn't this prediction of all hell breaking loose based on the fact that they'll pull the same shit again now? They can't be THAT stupid, can they??

Politically I'm centre-left with bits of right thrown in, but I can't stand the BC Libs. Everyone that I know who support the liberals either do so because that's what they've always done, or turn a blind eye to their repetitive corrupt practices just because "they can't be any worse than NDP". Either that or "fuck everything else, my home value must go up!!"

Liberals (imo) did fuck all for the province and all the shit we face these days are a direct consequence of them fucking about - and this is indisputable because they've been in power for 17 or whatever years.

I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious as to why some of you are so afraid of NDP/green coalition? In your words, couldn't they not be any worse than the liberals?

[murd0c]

You might think the Liberals did fuck all for our province but business has been fantastic which has helped the BC economy grow into what it is today. Shit might really go south now with all this free stuff the NDP wants to give away. The money has to come from somewhere so get ready to get taxed to hell.

[Armind]

:ohgodwhy:

[68style]

You might think the Liberals did fuck all for our province but business has been fantastic which has helped the BC economy grow into what it is today. Shit might really go south now with all this free stuff the NDP wants to give away. The money has to come from somewhere so get ready to get taxed to hell.

Liberals have been in power for how many years? They brought in all sorts of new taxes... both direct and indirect...

[68style]

It could potentially be cancelled. Not actual construction has begun yet. It would save a ton of money to cancel, compared to building it.


Dude have you driven highway 99 recently? A tonne of construction has started

[Hondaracer]

Shits been so bad with the liberals in power..got no work got no money got no hope

:rukidding:

Getting rid of tolls and scraping the bridge plan would be such a ducking monumental mistake.

Inb4 the losers living in Ladner etc who voted for NDP see the bridge get scrapped and their property values take the first hit. Who the fuck wants to live in a spot where you have to deal with that tunnel? I've taken it twice in the past 10 years and that's arguabley the worst traffic hot spot in the lower mainland imo

[Traum]

Genuine question for those of you who are predicting chaos.

...

I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious as to why some of you are so afraid of NDP/green coalition? In your words, couldn't they not be any worse than the liberals?
With the NDP being banished into the Opposition for a long 16 years, I honestly expect them to have little familiarity with policy implementation, and especially when it comes to the fine details of things. It will take some time to round out those rough edges, and there will be some initial gaffes that might range from simply getting ridiculed or to enact a policy with side effects so horrible that the unintentional consequences are dire. But we won't know how serious the gaffes might be until they have been given a chance.

For the most part, I have become so cynical of our provincial politics that I don't really expect any sort of improvement. The NDP-Green gov will be no better and no worse than the Liberals -- it's just that they will be better or worse in different ways and areas. To me, having the NDP come onboard at this point is a good thing, because it will restore some balance to a society that has been tipped too far off at one end of the scale after the 16 year Liberal reign.

[68style]

They should have put rail down the middle of 99.... White Rock to DT... that's what I would call progressive... wouldn't even need a 10 lane bridge then.

Anyone who lived in Richmond before and after Canada Line knows how many cars left the road into Vancouver when that opened. Arthur Laing went from a 30+ minute morning backup to 2 Road bridge to drive straight on literally overnight.

[Liquid_o2]

Dude have you driven highway 99 recently? A tonne of construction has started

I can see the tunnel from my office. Yes, there has been prep, but the actual construction has not begun from my understanding. But I could be wrong.

[kr4l]

Yaaa!!! for $15 min wage!!!! It's actually going to be good for business. Shops that are not doing that well will close down and the shops that are doing well will take there customers. 2 gas stations has closed down in our area with one more competitor to go.

Sorry but this statement is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Get ready to pay 50% more on every single purchase.

And for the people working minimum wage, if you think your job sucks now, wait until you have to do the work of 3 people AND not bitch about it

[EmperorIS]

Sorry but this statement is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Get ready to pay 50% more on every single purchase.

And for the people working minimum wage, if you think your job sucks now, wait until you have to do the work of 3 people AND not bitch about it

Think he was being sarcastic?

[68style]

I can see the tunnel from my office. Yes, there has been prep, but the actual construction has not begun from my understanding. But I could be wrong.

All the land on the west side of the highway from Westminster to Steveston Hwy the city appropriated back from all the churches on 5 road and have already flattened/are paving every night to add lanes for the run up.. also all the sand fill piles on Steveston highway too...

[Jmac]

RS: Land of Political Science majors who minored in Economics

[DragonChi]

B.C. Green Party agrees to support NDP in the legislature - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ndp-green-agreement-1.4136539)

"The Greens and NDP said the agreement was a "Confidence and Supply Agreement," meaning a guarantee of support for any budgets or confidence motions."

... well, fuck. I thought the Greens would keep NDP spending in check.

Full video near the end of the article.

[DragonChi]

Dude have you driven highway 99 recently? A tonne of construction has started

According to the project report from December, construction is scheduled to start at the end of 2017.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/52/2017/02/2016-12-31-December-Status-Report-FINAL.pdf

Page 6

Though, they may be preparing for construction.

[Traum]

B.C. Green Party agrees to support NDP in the legislature - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ndp-green-agreement-1.4136539)

"The Greens and NDP said the agreement was a "Confidence and Supply Agreement," meaning a guarantee of support for any budgets or confidence motions."

... well, fuck. I thought the Greens would keep NDP spending in check.

Our government -- both federal and provincial -- can be brought down by a vote of no-confidence, and as a matter of procedure, rejecting the budget automatically results in a vote of no confidence. So as long as the Greens are playing ball with the NDP, they will support an NDP budget. Any "keeping the spending in check" will only happen in the backroom discussions.

[DragonChi]

I see, that supports why this government isn't expected to last that long.

There are more details to come tomorrow, when their agreement gets ratified.

[inv4zn]

You might think the Liberals did fuck all for our province but business has been fantastic which has helped the BC economy grow into what it is today. Shit might really go south now with all this free stuff the NDP wants to give away. The money has to come from somewhere so get ready to get taxed to hell.

Yes but 'business booming' (which is subjective in its self, depending on who you ask) has come at a cost.

Your statement itself is conjecture - shit "might" go down with the free stuff the NDP wants to give away, which they haven't.

We're already being taxed to shit with no accountability, ie. carbon tax, ICBC general revenue, etc. I don't want to pay taxes as much as the other guy, but having 40% of my gas bill go to some general pool that the liberals have been dipping into for who knows what, I donno man.

[68style]

RS: Land of Political Science majors who minored in Economics

Isn't that every topic on every message forum in existence? Every single forum topic would just be empty as people sit and wait for someone with credentials to come post with no further discussion. Sounds like a blast.

In short, this is the very first useless post I've ever seen you make lol

[GS8]

Isn't that every topic on every message forum in existence? Every single forum topic would just be empty as people sit and wait for someone with credentials to come post with no further discussion. Sounds like a blast.

In short, this is the very first useless post I've ever seen you make lol

Looks like the SJW got triggered

:troll: :troll: :troll:

[Teriyaki]

Soooo... Do we get Uber or not?

[RRxtar]

correct me if im wrong. but dont the liberals still have the opportunity to form a government, regardless of the coalition, since they won the election? obviously the coalition being a majority opposition would vote no confidence at the first opportunity, halting the legislature, and send us back to another election?

if so, imagine the lols if the liberals do better in the next one and get a majority.

[hypediss]

Liberals form a government, coalition votes down on it

[MrPhreak]

I see, that supports why this government isn't expected to last that long.

There are more details to come tomorrow, when their agreement gets ratified.

I wonder just how much Horgan had to sell out his voters to make this deal with the Green devil?

My guess is the NDP will keep the removal of the tolls, along with the 400$ buy off for renters. They need those two things to save face and the Greens will shrug at. As far as terminating both Site C and BC LNG; and additional funding for health care and education goes... they basically agree with the Greens. Weaver stated he wanted money out of politics, and the NDP were sort of on that train as well.

Finally, Weaver is hard up for electoral reform so he can get a bigger share of the pie... I don't think the NDP care that much because it would require a referendum, and most voters still want an MLA to represent them so it would fail on that anyway.

So where will all the hard bargaining compromises be?

Possible areas:
1) 30$ carbon tax to 60$ carbon tax
2) 30% Foreign Buyers Tax province wide
3) 10$/Day Daycare to 15$/day

[Mr.HappySilp]

Possible areas:
1) 30$ carbon tax to 60$ carbon tax
2) 30% Foreign Buyers Tax province wide
3) 10$/Day Daycare to 15$/day

1. Affect everyone not just the rich. The cost will just be pass onto us. So the poor will end up paying more
2. Won't stop the market. More people moving to BC than the housing supply. Since with the tax increase if I was a developer I would totally slow down or even stop building up apartments/townhomes complex to decrease supply thus increasing the price I can sell them. Only hurts the locals. Besdie 30% doesn't hurt most foreign buyers anyways. There are always loopholes they can use. So it doesn't do a thing
3.Where is the money going to come from? Tax increase? Decrease service in other public service to support this?

If I was Crusty Clark I would totally let NDP and greens runs the gov for a few months. And gets any chance I can go vote down anything I can just to screw with up. Screw them up. NDP and Green won't play nice for long. They are going crack and split. When that happens do a vote again. People will see how bad/poor NPD and the Green is and will vote for the liberal since there is no other choice.

[Traum]

Finally, Weaver is hard up for electoral reform so he can get a bigger share of the pie... I don't think the NDP care that much because it would require a referendum, and most voters still want an MLA to represent them so it would fail on that anyway.

I'm curious how this one would turn out too. Weaver wants to just do electoral reform -- as in, push it down on BC voters. Horgan is a bit sleazy here, saying he supports electoral reform, but needs to have it go through referendum first. The last 2 times BC had a referendum on it, we apparently voted it down. So somebody would have to give, and I suspect it's going to be Horgan / NDP.


2. Won't stop the market. More people moving to BC than the housing supply. Since with the tax increase if I was a developer I would totally slow down or even stop building up apartments/townhomes complex to decrease supply thus increasing the price I can sell them. Only hurts the locals. Besdie 30% doesn't hurt most foreign buyers anyways. There are always loopholes they can use. So it doesn't do a thing

It won't stop the market, but it will certainly slow the market one way or another. Besides, the foreign investor tax was mostly affecting higher dollar homes, not the smaller apartments / townhomes that regular working class people are purchasing.

And the 30% foreign buyer tax is only 1 of the Greens housing affordability trick. The other was a speculator / flipper tax that applies on home sales when the purchase only happened in recent history (forgot how many years of prior purchase he said it would include -- I think it was something between 3 to 5?).

[Hondaracer]

Saddling BC tax payers with 500 million dollar portman hwy 1 debt and the insane amounts of compounding interest as a result of scrapping tolls will certainly make us all richer!

[originalhypa]

Saddling BC tax payers with 500 million dollar portman hwy 1 debt and the insane amounts of compounding interest as a result of scrapping tolls will certainly make us all richer!

The crazy thing is that the Liberals have spent the last decade building up the population, but they haven't done much to ensure that infrastructure is keeping up. This was the worst May long weekend traffic that I have ever seen. The Coq is proving to be dangerous during the winter due to a lack of maintenance, and the S2S clogs up anytime you drop down to one lane. So here we are cutting budgets and tolls, while the routes are over capacity and under maintained.

And that's just transportation. What about the medical system or the school systems? Things are going crazy in this province right now and people want changes. I just hope this is the group that gets it all under control again.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The crazy thing is that the Liberals have spent the last decade building up the population, but they haven't done much to ensure that infrastructure is keeping up. This was the worst May long weekend traffic that I have ever seen. The Coq is proving to be dangerous during the winter due to a lack of maintenance, and the S2S clogs up anytime you drop down to one lane. So here we are cutting budgets and tolls, while the routes are over capacity and under maintained.

And that's just transportation. What about the medical system or the school systems? Things are going crazy in this province right now and people want changes. I just hope this is the group that gets it all under control again.

Well more money will be spend on education but where will the money come from? Yea.... all those that voted for NDP and cheering for a NDP minority clearly thinks money grows on trees. Just wait till either tax goes up or BC debt level raise and see how they like a NDP gov.

Running the gov is like tunning a guiltar just right. Too lose and you can't play it and sounds terrible. Too tight on the strings and it snaps. NDP will be the lose strings. Just keep on spending and worry about the debt level later. Tax the rich too much and they will just move their investment to another place. Less investment > slower economy grwoth > less job > more layoffs > less spending money for the economy > business makes less money and the cycle just keeps on going.

[6o4__boi]

meh, too much paranoia and speculation about the current situation

i'd actually wait and see what the NDP/Greens approach will be and that'll take a few months to a year

i'm interested in the contents of their agreement, imo, this is a pretty good situation for bc politics in general and should stir up some voter interest at least in the foreseeable future.

[Traum]

Running the gov is like tunning a guiltar just right. Too lose and you can't play it and sounds terrible. Too tight on the strings and it snaps. NDP will be the lose strings. Just keep on spending and worry about the debt level later. Tax the rich too much and they will just move their investment to another place. Less investment > slower economy grwoth > less job > more layoffs > less spending money for the economy > business makes less money and the cycle just keeps on going.
^^ Thank you and very well said, Mr.HappySilp! This is precisely why we need to switch away from a Liberals government after 16 years of constant cranking / tightening of the strings. Keep winding those strings up and they'll snap!

[whitev70r]

Strategically, Clark should recall legislature, present throne speech and budget with enough goodies in it to make Greens happy and test the agreement. See what happens.

[MarkyMark]

Going by the replies in this thread BC is going to look like the set of Mad Max by the time the NDP is done with it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ Thank you and very well said, Mr.HappySilp! This is precisely why we need to switch away from a Liberals government after 16 years of constant cranking / tightening of the strings. Keep winding those strings up and they'll snap!

I live just fine under Liberal Gov. However in the 90's under NDP family did terrible.

[Jmac]

Strategically, Clark should recall legislature, present throne speech and budget with enough goodies in it to make Greens happy and test the agreement. See what happens.
If they were going to do that, they would've been better off just negotiating an agreement with the Greens in the first place.

Also, how the hell did Christie not participate in negotiations with the Greens?

[Jmac]

Going by the replies in this thread BC is going to look like the set of Mad Max by the time the NDP is done with it.
Downtown Vancouver, May 2018
http://best-sci-fi-books.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Post-Apocalyptic_Cityscape_600.jpg

[6o4__boi]

Downtown Vancouver, June 2011
http://best-sci-fi-books.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Post-Apocalyptic_Cityscape_600.jpg

Fixed.

[quasi]

If they were going to do that, they would've been better off just negotiating an agreement with the Greens in the first place.

Also, how the hell did Christie not participate in negotiations with the Greens?

This seems like a big misstep from the Greens to me, they really should be pitting both parties against each other to get the best deal possible.

[Jmac]

This seems like a big misstep from the Greens to me, they really should be pitting both parties against each other to get the best deal possible.
They negotiated with both the Liberal and NDP parties. Just, for whatever reason, Christy Clark wasn't involved in the negotiations for the Liberals.

[Anjew]

Because shes not a real professional. a real professional would drop the bs like John and Andrew and make things happen. This is Christy's real self leaking here.

[Hondaracer]

If NDP come through with any real plans that heavily effect housing the trickle down effect is going to hurt so many people's it's not going to be funny.

The 90's NDP with similar spending and housing attitudes descimated the construction industry.

Like it or not, the RE boom created a force to be reckoned with in the current construction industry, and it's not just lining the pockets of Aqualinis and Bosa's etc. How many people are employed in trades and construction because of the current RE climate? How many of these people have good paying jobs and solid work because of it? Ive never once seen a plumber or electrician, or hell, even a framer be the one on the news complaining they can't afford a "home" because of their bad choices both career wise and in their family planning.

If things change who gives a shit if there's $10/day childcare or no tolls if you've got no job to go to.

I'm gonna take the contrarian stance like all the pathetic losers out there with their fingers crossed hoping for a "RE crash". I'm hoping all the people who voted in the NDP under he presumption of all this free money being handed out like candy end up jobless and worse off than ever because of their short sighted single issue voting strategies.

Fuck em all baby!

[MarkyMark]

She needs to just go away, I don't see the Liberals doing well with her anymore. Time to resign bitch.

[MarkyMark]

If NDP come through with any real plans that heavily effect housing the trickle down effect is going to hurt so many people's it's not going to be funny.

The 90's NDP with similar spending and housing attitudes descimated the construction industry.

Like it or not, the RE boom created a force to be reckoned with in the current construction industry, and it's not just lining the pockets of Aqualinis and Bosa's etc. How many people are employed in trades and construction because of the current RE climate? How many of these people have good paying jobs and solid work because of it? Ive never once seen a plumber or electrician, or hell, even a framer be the one on the news complaining they can't afford a "home" because of their bad choices both career wise and in their family planning.

If things change who gives a shit if there's $10/day childcare or no tolls if you've got no job to go to.

I'm gonna take the contrarian stance like all the pathetic losers out there with their fingers crossed hoping for a "RE crash". I'm hoping all the people who voted in the NDP under he presumption of all this free money being handed out like candy end up jobless and worse off than ever because of their short sighted single issue voting strategies.

Fuck em all baby!

I don't think the people that were prospering under the Liberals voted NDP. So the people that were fed up and wanted change, and perhaps afford a place that isn't in Whalley should all lose their jobs now?

I understand life was probably good for you with the Liberals, but that doesn't mean it was great for everyone.

[Hondaracer]

Life was pretty decent for pretty much everyone i know/associate with. As i said, having a solid job, having money in your pocket, Living in the lowermainland, etc. etc. isnt good? The NDP is going to put you in a new home in Vancouver with that $16/Hour arts degree and 3 kids under the age of 10? :smug:

So really, it's unlikely things are going to be getting 'better' under the NDP, infact, i'd wager for a lot of the people i know things are going to get worse, and could be MUCH worse depending on how the new legislation goes.

People have a perception things are bad because they arent keeping up to the joneses or because they've locked them self into a situation where they are paying stupid amounts of money for child care, housing, etc.

Most of those things have to do with personal choices and lifestyles, not the ruling government. Saving $400 a year on rent isnt going to turn somones life around where they are now buying a home. We've passed that point a longgggg time ago.

[MarkyMark]

Like I said, it's been great for you. You have a house that you didn't have to overpay for, and your job was stable. Not every job sector did great under the Liberals. Apparently enough people weren't doing great or why wouldn't the Liberals have won by a landslide?

[Hondaracer]

Because people have an idea in their head they should be doing " better" than they are, when in reality they werent willing to put in the work to better their situation themselves.

It's not about being lazy or working harder either, it's about doing more than the status quo to differentiate yourself from the pack. Looking for a hand up, not a hand out.

ie. NDP mentality, or at least the perception.

[subordinate]

What marky said.

Look at the people displaced with renovictions and people struggling to save. Liberals kept ignoring the fact of speculators and rising foreign ownership.

there will always be losers and winners. But everyone didn't flourish under Christy.

[MarkyMark]

Sorry but some things like houses going up 50% in a year or two isn't something to just shrug your shoulders at. The Liberals fucked everyone by dragging their feet for years and now, like you said, it's lonnnngg past the point of repair.

I bet a lot of people didn't even vote for the NDP, they voted for that twat to be outed.

[Liquid_o2]

Because people have an idea in their head they should be doing " better" than they are, when in reality they werent willing to put in the work to better their situation themselves.

It's not about being lazy or working harder either, it's about doing more than the status quo to differentiate yourself from the pack. Looking for a hand up, not a hand out.

ie. NDP mentality, or at least the perception.

This has nothing to do with differentiating themselves from the pack or doing more than the status quo. The argument that people didn't put in the work to get ahead is the biggest bullshit excuse, and it always comes from people who have a stable job and own a home.

What about all the kids who came out of universities over the past 5 years and are now establishing themselves? Or the ones who are coming out of school just now? Are there the right jobs for them in this market? Does Metro Vancouver have a well diversified economy that provides jobs that pay enough for people to make rent or buy a starter condo near their place of employment? Do people have good work/life balances?

Easy to spout off a throne that your family and your friends are doing great.

[Jmac]

If you think people voted against the Liberals because of any single issue, especially housing, I mean, that's just delusional.

The NDP was projected to win 4 years ago, before the real estate market in Vancouver went insane. Obviously we know the Liberals ended up with a clear majority, but the Liberals only got 44% of the popular vote.

There have been longstanding issues with the Liberals that they've either failed to address or exacerbated in their policies otherwise, as MarkyMark said, no one would have an issue voting for them.

[6o4__boi]

some of hondaracer's point are valid

but when you mix in personal anecdotes and experience based on "family and friends" along with assessments and speculations entirely based on personal beliefs and generalizations...it waters down what you're trying to say.

[pastarocket]

Does this news conference today mean that Crusty is resigning? FeelsGoodMan

Clark to address media, BC NDP caucus vote on Green Party deal - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/05/30/bc-new-democrats-caucus-vote-green-party-deal/)

[Traum]

I don't think the people that were prospering under the Liberals voted NDP. So the people that were fed up and wanted change, and perhaps afford a place that isn't in Whalley should all lose their jobs now?

I understand life was probably good for you with the Liberals, but that doesn't mean it was great for everyone.
Looking at the popular vote between the 2013 vs 2017 elections:

2013 Libs: 795,946 votes / 44.14%
2017 Libs: 796,672 votes / 40.36%

2013 NDP: 715,999 votes / 39.71%
2017 NDP: 795,106 votes / 40.28%

2013 Green: 146,607 votes / 8.13%
2017 Green: 332,387 votes / 16.84%

Essentially, the Libs pretty much kept the same number of votes, but we know that they fell heavily out of favour in the Lower Mainland (to the NDP) as well as on the Island (to the Greens and the NDP), while gaining patches of votes here and there in other places. An almost 4% drop in the overall percentage is HUGE.

The NDP and the Greens, however, picked up a mega shxtload of votes. I don't have a good explanation of that, other than the guess that BC voters wanted someone else other than Crusty / Libs to run the show.

[6o4__boi]

Christy criticizes Weaver/Horgan for negotiating behind closed doors. Brings up some schmuck about constitution. Then in the same breath says that she made it clear to her negotiating team and the Greens that they were NOT gonna negotiate in public.

1:15 and 4:15

https://www.pscp.tv/christyclarkbc/1ynKOjWBqmrxR?t=12

Yeah. Ok then.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Like I said, it's been great for you. You have a house that you didn't have to overpay for, and your job was stable. Not every job sector did great under the Liberals. Apparently enough people weren't doing great or why wouldn't the Liberals have won by a landslide?

What marky said.

Look at the people displaced with renovictions and people struggling to save. Liberals kept ignoring the fact of speculators and rising foreign ownership.

there will always be losers and winners. But everyone didn't flourish under Christy.

I don't make a ton of money in fact my income is pretty low. Less than 60k a year yet I can save enough to purchase an apartment. Hmmm I wonder how did that happen? Oh right! I didn't go partying and spend hundreds of dollars every weekend! I didn't go out for dinner on weekly! I didn't get that $200 limited edition runners! I didn't go on vacation every year! I don't go to Starbucks everyday and then complain at the end of the month I have no money! I don't get a brand new Wardrobes full of the newest fashion every 3 months!

Is a choice. If you have the will to save for a downpayment you will. I know a couple who have the mom working as part time doing cleaning for an office complex, the dad works in construction and have 3 kids. and guess what? They are able to save for a down payment for a 650k townhome in Langley. Yea is far. But guess what they got a home. They did it by saving and not spending on unnecessary things.

[whitev70r]

Strategically, Clark should recall legislature, present throne speech and budget with enough goodies in it to make Greens happy and test the agreement. See what happens.

If they were going to do that, they would've been better off just negotiating an agreement with the Greens in the first place.

Also, how the hell did Christie not participate in negotiations with the Greens?

Christy Clark won’t resign as B.C. premier – yet
Christy Clark won?t resign as B.C. premier ? yet | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/christy-clark-wont-resign-as-b-c-premier-yet)

Christy Clark may not have enough seats to win a confidence vote, but she won’t resign without a fight.

Clark told reporters Tuesday she would test the confidence of the house rather than give up her post as premier. That test will come as early as next month, she said.

“We have a duty to meet the house and to test its confidence. Constitutional conventions tells us that and I intend to do that in very short order.”

The decision comes one day after NDP Leader John Horgan and Green Leader Andrew Weaver reached a power-sharing agreement to lead the house.

“If there is going to be a transfer of power in this province, and it certainly seems like there will be, it shouldn’t be done behind closed doors. It should happen in public … it should happen in the peoples’ house with 87 members elected by British Columbians to our legislature making that decision,” she said.

[6o4__boi]

Live stream of NDP-Green agreement ratification.

NDP, Green alliance to focus on banning big money, electoral reform and stopping Kinder Morgan - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ndp-green-alliance-to-focus-on-banning-big-money-electoral-reform-and-stopping-kinder-morgan-1.4138290)

[MarkyMark]

I don't make a ton of money in fact my income is pretty low. Less than 60k a year yet I can save enough to purchase an apartment. Hmmm I wonder how did that happen? Oh right! I didn't go partying and spend hundreds of dollars every weekend! I didn't go out for dinner on weekly! I didn't get that $200 limited edition runners! I didn't go on vacation every year! I don't go to Starbucks everyday and then complain at the end of the month I have no money! I don't get a brand new Wardrobes full of the newest fashion every 3 months!

Is a choice. If you have the will to save for a downpayment you will. I know a couple who have the mom working as part time doing cleaning for an office complex, the dad works in construction and have 3 kids. and guess what? They are able to save for a down payment for a 650k townhome in Langley. Yea is far. But guess what they got a home. They did it by saving and not spending on unnecessary things.

You make less than 60k a year and you saved up for an apartment how? What was your rent during these years of saving, how much was your apartment? What was your down payment? How long did it take? Did anyone else contribute or was it all you?

Need the info pal

[Hondaracer]

This has nothing to do with differentiating themselves from the pack or doing more than the status quo. The argument that people didn't put in the work to get ahead is the biggest bullshit excuse, and it always comes from people who have a stable job and own a home.

What about all the kids who came out of universities over the past 5 years and are now establishing themselves? Or the ones who are coming out of school just now? Are there the right jobs for them in this market? Does Metro Vancouver have a well diversified economy that provides jobs that pay enough for people to make rent or buy a starter condo near their place of employment? Do people have good work/life balances?

Easy to spout off a throne that your family and your friends are doing great.

So instead of going to school for somthing that they knew they would get a good paying job in, they studied in a field that was already heavily saturated with people simply trying to get their foot in a door at a base salary?

What industries in Vancouver existed 5/6/7/8 years ago that seemed feasible at the time no longer exist now? i cant think of many..

Meanwhile, people who went into trades and took a similar timeline in terms of education are easily making $40/50/60+ an hour in an industry with seemingly endless work, not only here, but outside of the province/country.

People dont want to get their hands dirty so you get an education that is a dime a dozen then expect to feed your family on a base salary with no experiance? please.

The one thing i will agree 100% on is the incease in home values over the last few years is unsustainable and should have been addressed.

The concept though that work is drying up and everyone is leaving is all bullshit though. -Everywhere- is busier than ever, services, restaurants, bars, retail stores, etc. For every one of those arts degree receptionists with 2 kids leaving the city, 50 people are waiting to rent out their appt.

Job stability is also somthing you personally work towards, not rely on others to provide.

[Traum]

Christy Clark won’t resign as B.C. premier – yet
Christy Clark won?t resign as B.C. premier ? yet | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/christy-clark-wont-resign-as-b-c-premier-yet)

Which part of being a sore loser does she not understand? FailFish Even when Hillary lost to the Orangutan, she knows she needed to concede when it was time to concede... FailFish

[whitev70r]

You make less than 60k a year and you saved up for an apartment how? What was your rent during these years of saving, how much was your apartment? What was your down payment? How long did it take? Did anyone else contribute or was it all you?

Need the info pal

Maybe a big part of the answer is in this thread:

Confessions of a Frugal Shopper
https://www.revscene.net/forums/664067-confessions-frugal-shopper.html

[inv4zn]

I don't make a ton of money in fact my income is pretty low. Less than 60k a year yet I can save enough to purchase an apartment. Hmmm I wonder how did that happen? Oh right! I didn't go partying and spend hundreds of dollars every weekend! I didn't go out for dinner on weekly! I didn't get that $200 limited edition runners! I didn't go on vacation every year! I don't go to Starbucks everyday and then complain at the end of the month I have no money! I don't get a brand new Wardrobes full of the newest fashion every 3 months!

Is a choice. If you have the will to save for a downpayment you will. I know a couple who have the mom working as part time doing cleaning for an office complex, the dad works in construction and have 3 kids. and guess what? They are able to save for a down payment for a 650k townhome in Langley. Yea is far. But guess what they got a home. They did it by saving and not spending on unnecessary things.

That's a lot of salt there, and for no apparent reason.

The bigger question is why, in Vancouver, you have to live like a beggar while making 60K (which isn't small), to be able to afford down payment for a shoebox and you're now saddled with 1K+ payments a month for the next 30+ years.

It's not just "lack of willpower" that's shot up home prices to mostly unattainable heights you dunce. Yes, there are the entitled hippies that you've described, but they're not* the reason this problem exists.

How long did it take living like a beggar for you to save down payment, where'd you live during those years, and what was given to you as a benefit?

[6o4__boi]

full text of the agreement between NDP and Greens

https://www.bcndp.ca/latest/its-time-new-kind-government-british-columbia

here's the TL;DR version from the greens

https://twitter.com/VancouverSun/status/869662813479989249

[jasonturbo]

So the business un-friendly NDP and Greens want to stop 12B worth of construction projects (Kinder TMX and Site C) while simultaneously implementing measures to reduce the cost of housing...

If you've been thinking about selling your house in the GVA, now is probably a really good time to do just that. Expect a new form of taxes on RE transactions within the next year.

[MarkyMark]

So the business un-friendly NDP and Greens want to stop 12B worth of construction projects (Kinder TMX and Site C) while simultaneously implementing measures to reduce the cost of housing...

If you've been thinking about selling your house in the GVA, now is probably a really good time to do just that. Expect a new form of taxes on RE transactions within the next year.

"Buy now or be priced out forever."

Horgan: "Hold my beer."

[Mr.HappySilp]

You make less than 60k a year and you saved up for an apartment how? What was your rent during these years of saving, how much was your apartment? What was your down payment? How long did it take? Did anyone else contribute or was it all you?

Need the info pal

How? Easy
-Live with parents. Pay utilities, Cable/TV, grocery and some other stuff that's around 750 to 900 monthly.
-Cell phone bill $60
-bus pass $124 monthly
-entertainment $150 to 200 monthly

that's all the spending I generally have every month. Bonus and Overtime income goes into vacation funds.

That's what I pay now. When my sister still lives at home the Utilities and the other stuff is share between us. Parents cover the rest property tax insurance etc etc...... They also rent the basement so that helps.

When I was younger (in the mid to late 20s). I didn't have to pay so there were a lot of savings. Since I work graveyard for a long time it actually helps to save since when people go out I will be working and too tired to go out on my days off. So you could say during my 20's I save a ton.

I know lot's of people who save a lot than me and able to purchase much bigger place. Is a trade off really. Enjoy life and rent or save hard and have a bit of a life. Is your choice.

[quasi]

So a couple of items on that list, get rid of MSP cutting about 440 million a year in premiums and reforming the electoral system moving the financial burden from contributors to the tax payer? I'm curious what the plan is to fund this stuff, is there one?

[jasonturbo]

So a couple of items on that list, get rid of MSP cutting about 440 million a year in premiums and reforming the electrical system moving the financial burden from contributors to the tax payer? I'm curious what the plan is to fund this stuff, is there one?

The plan is more debt.. followed by more taxes.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Living with parents is an optional privilege fewer and fewer have available as the housing market and cost of living worsens. I'm sure many people would gladly move in with their parents if the option where there. Governments should not rely on this as a way to address the issues at hand and parents should not have to take on that burden as policy.

[Liquid_o2]

How? Easy
-Live with parents. Pay utilities, Cable/TV, grocery and some other stuff that's around 750 to 900 monthly.
-Cell phone bill $60
-bus pass $124 monthly
-entertainment $150 to 200 monthly

that's all the spending I generally have every month. Bonus and Overtime income goes into vacation funds.



Nice and easy when you can live with your parents for $1,000 a month total.

How about for people in their late 20's or early 30's who don't have the ability to live with their parents for various reasons? Some people's parents aren't local, or they don't have the room, or the desire to have their kids living at home. Or maybe their kids are married and don't want to live with their parents in their 30's? Not everyone has the situation that you described. So easy, why doesn't everyone do it. Thinking your way is completely closed minded.

[MarkyMark]

How? Easy
-Live with parents. Pay utilities, Cable/TV, grocery and some other stuff that's around 750 to 900 monthly.
-Cell phone bill $60
-bus pass $124 monthly
-entertainment $150 to 200 monthly

that's all the spending I generally have every month. Bonus and Overtime income goes into vacation funds.

That's what I pay now. When my sister still lives at home the Utilities and the other stuff is share between us. Parents cover the rest property tax insurance etc etc...... They also rent the basement so that helps.

When I was younger (in the mid to late 20s). I didn't have to pay so there were a lot of savings. Since I work graveyard for a long time it actually helps to save since when people go out I will be working and too tired to go out on my days off. So you could say during my 20's I save a ton.

I know lot's of people who save a lot than me and able to purchase much bigger place. Is a trade off really. Enjoy life and rent or save hard and have a bit of a life. Is your choice.

Pretty much what I expected. So to those who don't have the option to live with their parents they can all get fucked I suppose?

[inv4zn]

So a couple of items on that list, get rid of MSP cutting about 440 million a year in premiums and reforming the electrical system moving the financial burden from contributors to the tax payer? I'm curious what the plan is to fund this stuff, is there one?

I struggled with this a bit, but here's my opinion.

Every year rates have gone up for MSP, citing rising health care costs and blah blah.

Now suddenly, election year, the new plan was to get rid of MSP premiums (the liberals campaigned on this too, but it was a 50% cut to gradually get rid of completely).

So wtf, unless health care costs suddenly plunged, the remaining alternative was that the money was always there, and rate increases went to other things. This, coupled with constant news of Liberal's corruption, really makes you wonder.

They accept corporate "donations", cut corporate taxes and regulations, then raise costs for citizens saying there's no money.

I, did not flourish under liberal rule. All my adult life was under liberal reign, and not having experienced the alternative first-hand, the liberals are looking pretty shitty right now. I'm not some entitled SJW bitching about everything - I like to think I fall in the demographic that's hit hardest: I'm 29 years old, about to get married soon, pulling in 65K, and I haaate the liberals. Yes, I choose to live here and all that other jazz, but that's not to say things aren't fucked up a little bit.

I remain cautiously optimistic about BC under new leadership, and if the NDP/Green fuck things up as they apparently did 20 years ago, well then I'll change my vote next time.

Or get the fuck out, I donno.

[Jmac]

How? Easy
-Live with parents. Pay utilities, Cable/TV, grocery and some other stuff that's around 750 to 900 monthly.
-Cell phone bill $60
-bus pass $124 monthly
-entertainment $150 to 200 monthly

that's all the spending I generally have every month. Bonus and Overtime income goes into vacation funds.

That's what I pay now. When my sister still lives at home the Utilities and the other stuff is share between us. Parents cover the rest property tax insurance etc etc...... They also rent the basement so that helps.

When I was younger (in the mid to late 20s). I didn't have to pay so there were a lot of savings. Since I work graveyard for a long time it actually helps to save since when people go out I will be working and too tired to go out on my days off. So you could say during my 20's I save a ton.

I know lot's of people who save a lot than me and able to purchase much bigger place. Is a trade off really. Enjoy life and rent or save hard and have a bit of a life. Is your choice.
Good on your parents for doing that for you, but your situation is unavailable as an option to the vast majority of people. Most parents can't afford to support their children payment-free for a decade after high school and many who can won't.

[CivicBlues]

Good on your parents for doing that for you, but your situation is unavailable as an option to the vast majority of people. Most parents can't afford to support their children payment-free for a decade after high school and many who can won't.

Actually, the option to stay at home into your 30s is most available to Asians, much more so for 0-1st generation immigrants, which going by Mr. Happyslip's postings, he falls into.

And you wonder why each and every condo pre-sale is filled with black-haired devils :troll:

[Jmac]

So a couple of items on that list, get rid of MSP cutting about 440 million a year in premiums and reforming the electoral system moving the financial burden from contributors to the tax payer? I'm curious what the plan is to fund this stuff, is there one?
If you go by the NDP's proposed budget estimates (from their absolutely brutal-to-read-through platform):

- End Clark's tax cut from the top 2% will save $125M in partial year 2017/18, $250M for 2018/19 and 2019/20
- Increase tax on corporate profits by 1 point will increase revenue by $125M in 2017/18, $250M for 2018/19 and 2019/20
- Empty housing speculation tax will increase revenue by $100M in 2017/18, $200M for 2018/19 and 2019/20
- Eliminate Clark's LNG Fantasy Fund will save $120M in 2017/18, $190M in 2018/19 and 2019/20
- Federal government's carbon price mandate will increase revenue by $140M in 2019/20
- Cleaning up BC Liberal waste and growing the economy will increase revenue by $60M in 2017/18, $260M in 2018/19, and $360M in 2019/20

Yes, these are literally the words from the NDP platform for those who haven't had the displeasure of slogging through 118 pages of it.

[inv4zn]

^on paper, to me at least, those sound reasonable and almost like common sense.

I also like how they called it the Clark Fantasy Fund lol

[Ch28]

This has nothing to do with differentiating themselves from the pack or doing more than the status quo. The argument that people didn't put in the work to get ahead is the biggest bullshit excuse, and it always comes from people who have a stable job and own a home.

What about all the kids who came out of universities over the past 5 years and are now establishing themselves? Or the ones who are coming out of school just now? Are there the right jobs for them in this market? Does Metro Vancouver have a well diversified economy that provides jobs that pay enough for people to make rent or buy a starter condo near their place of employment? Do people have good work/life balances?

Easy to spout off a throne that your family and your friends are doing great.

http://i.imgur.com/C0BgP89.gif

[Jmac]

^on paper, to me at least, those sound reasonable and almost like common sense.

I also like how they called it the Clark Fantasy Fund lol
It's just too much focus on Christy Clark and the Liberals to stand over 118 pages, at least for me.

Just from that one sub-section:
Responsible and fair revenue and savings
We will make the following revenue and savings measures to pay for our
platform commitments:
›› We will end Christy Clark’s billion dollar tax cut for the wealthy. In 2015,
Christy Clark eliminated the top income tax bracket for incomes over
$150,000. We will reverse this tax cut, generating revenue of $250
million each year.
›› We will increase the general corporate income tax by one percentage
point, from 11 per cent to 12 per cent. British Columbia will still have the
third lowest general corporate income tax rate in Canada. We will reduce
the small business tax rate to 2.0 per cent from 2.5 per cent, as shown in
Budget 2017.
›› We will tax speculation in our housing market. People who buy property
in BC but don’t live or work here and leave their property empty will be
charged a two per cent tax on speculation, with optional municipality
participation. All revenue collected will go into our BC Housing
Affordability Fund.
›› We will eliminate Clark’s bogus $500 million LNG Fantasy Fund. Christy
Clark has not collected a single penny from LNG. Instead, in 2016 she
raised your fees and put that money into her LNG Fantasy Fund. We
will give that money back. We will take the $500 million from the LNG
Fantasy Fund and apply it directly to eliminating the tolls on the Port
Mann bridge and Golden Ears bridge, as we work with mayors to find a
fair and equitable solution for all regions over the long term.
›› We will increase the carbon tax in accordance with the federal
government’s carbon pricing mandate. Revenue raised from the
carbon tax will go directly to providing families a climate rebate cheque
and investing in climate solutions that reduce carbon pollution and
create jobs.
›› We will redirect BC Liberal waste and partisan government spending to
programs that matter, like education and healthcare. We believe there
is a lot to be gained by reviewing how Christy Clark’s spending benefits
the wealthy and well connected. For example, we will review oil and gas
subsidies, eliminate partisan government advertising, end patronage
positions like Gordon Wilson’s LNG sales gig, ground Air Christy, achieve
administrative savings from eliminating MSP, and implement a fraud
and tax avoidance task force. We will protect vital services and programs
through any review.
›› We will also grow the economy and generate additional tax revenue by
building schools, hospitals, roads, housing and transit. The econometric
study that supports our capital plan estimates that for every dollar
spent on public infrastructure $0.29 is recovered in additional provincial
tax revenue.

[Mr.HappySilp]

That's just me but there are others who came to Vancouver who are able to start from 0 to getting their own place. Maybe instead of working one full time job take another part time? Maybe volunteer to work on holidays to get holiday pay?

As I mention earlier the family that rents the basement most likely make less than 80k a year yet after 5 to 6 years the save enough to purchase a townhome with 3 kids. Yea the dad works 3 jobs at least and goes out collecting cans and bottles as well. Sometimes you have to do things you hate to get where you want to go. He doesn't have a choice. He got 3 kids and parents to take care of oversea. Is just sad when people complain about not being able to afford a place while going to into Starbucks getting a latte.

I am very lucky to have my parents' support. I always like to think how much people are willing sacrifice their lifestyle to save? Not too many I bet are willing to change. I see two side of the spectrum. I see friends who already purchase multi units working 7 days 2 to 3 jobs constantly. Sure they don't get to enjoy life now but when they retire or decided to sell they are going to be the one smiling. I also have friends who live pay cheque to pay cheque, going out for dinner every week, leasing cars that doesn't fit their income all for the glory on FB/Wechat, buying new clothes weekly but puts nothing into saving or RRSP. When shit hits the fan they are going to be one crying. I don't know I always feel like how or what you do/act now will affect your future and there is one to blame but yourself.

A lot of pre-sales now are actually international students or people who already got citizenship and have parents overseas helping to pay. Is funny someone bring this up I went to the inspection last weekend and there were like 5 to 6 groups of people there waiting to do inspection as well. All are black hair and speaks mandarin. One of them is actually an agent coz the buyer she works with isn't in Vancouver so she is doing the inspection.

From NDP's proposed budget all I see is tax increase. I don't see any benefit for myself or the mass population. The rich will have a way evade tax the corporate will just pass the tax along down to us. Empty housing speculation tax lol. How do you define if a house is empty? One month? Six month? A year. How will you even target if the house is empty? By BC hydro? They didn't cut their grass? Also what if it is a vacation home? How about I put it in the market to rent but put a price that no one will ever rent it. is that consider empty? What if I have renters but I keep rejecting them coz they didn't meet my expectation. So many loopholes and so many unanswered questions.

[Jmac]

That's just me but there are others who came to Vancouver who are able to start from 0 to getting their own place. Maybe instead of working one full time job take another part time? Maybe volunteer to work on holidays to get holiday pay?

As I mention earlier the family that rents the basement most likely make less than 80k a year yet after 5 to 6 years the save enough to purchase a townhome with 3 kids. Yea the dad works 3 jobs at least and goes out collecting cans and bottles as well. Sometimes you have to do things you hate to get where you want to go. He doesn't have a choice. He got 3 kids and parents to take care of oversea. Is just sad when people complain about not being able to afford a place while going to into Starbucks getting a latte.

I am very lucky to have my parents' support. I always like to think how much people are willing sacrifice their lifestyle to save? Not too many I bet are willing to change. I see two side of the spectrum. I see friends who already purchase multi units working 7 days 2 to 3 jobs constantly. Sure they don't get to enjoy life now but when they retire or decided to sell they are going to be the one smiling. I also have friends who live pay cheque to pay cheque, going out for dinner every week, leasing cars that doesn't fit their income all for the glory on FB/Wechat, buying new clothes weekly but puts nothing into saving or RRSP. When shit hits the fan they are going to be one crying. I don't know I always feel like how or what you do/act now will affect your future and there is one to blame but yourself.

A lot of pre-sales now are actually international students or people who already got citizenship and have parents overseas helping to pay. Is funny someone bring this up I went to the inspection last weekend and there were like 5 to 6 groups of people there waiting to do inspection as well. All are black hair and speaks mandarin. One of them is actually an agent coz the buyer she works with isn't in Vancouver so she is doing the inspection.

From NDP's proposed budget all I see is tax increase. I don't see any benefit for myself or the mass population. The rich will have a way evade tax the corporate will just pass the tax along down to us. Empty housing speculation tax lol. How do you define if a house is empty? One month? Six month? A year. How will you even target if the house is empty? By BC hydro? They didn't cut their grass? Also what if it is a vacation home? How about I put it in the market to rent but put a price that no one will ever rent it. is that consider empty? What if I have renters but I keep rejecting them coz they didn't meet my expectation. So many loopholes and so many unanswered questions.
You generally aren't going to get that kind of detail from a 100ish-page platform document. Most plans usually range from a paragraph to a couple of pages providing a basic, high-level overview.

The Green Party had the only thoroughly-detailed plan in any platform document of any of the 3 main parties spending 15 pages of their platform on their climate action plan.

[Mr.HappySilp]

You generally aren't going to get that kind of detail from a 100ish-page platform document. Most plans usually range from a paragraph to a couple of pages providing a basic, high-level overview.

The Green Party had the only thoroughly-detailed plan in any platform document of any of the 3 main parties spending 15 pages of their platform on their climate action plan.

True. At least NPD is not like Trump who only use note form and doesn't like to read anything that's over a page lol

[Hondaracer]

Nice and easy when you can live with your parents for $1,000 a month total.

How about for people in their late 20's or early 30's who don't have the ability to live with their parents for various reasons? Some people's parents aren't local, or they don't have the room, or the desire to have their kids living at home. Or maybe their kids are married and don't want to live with their parents in their 30's? Not everyone has the situation that you described. So easy, why doesn't everyone do it. Thinking your way is completely closed minded.

So because you're 30 and married you're too good to live at your parents?

Some of those points are understandable, some are personal choices. Dat entitlement doe..

I was in a similar situation to Happyslip.. caucasian family who enabled me to succeed via supporting me through a roof over my head. They never gave me lump sums of cash for downpayments, nor did they cut me a substantial break on rent. However, with the breaks they gave me and my work ethic i was able to own two seperate properties before i was 30. One was a total mistake which almost ruined me but i continued to push through and it ended up working out. In the time i got into the first two properties i never made more than 72K a year.

One of the most expensive cities in the world doesnt have much room for excuses when it comes to finances.

I'm at the point with all this bullshit that I care moreso about my friends and family continuing to do well than i care about a barista's rent.

One more point to add to the jobs which "young professionals" so desperately seek referred to on the last page. My brother who is under 30 is a mechanical engineer, my sister who is 25 is a registered nurse, my Dad works within the construction industry, as do i, and my mom works at a mortgage broker. My younger siblings both got jobs right out of school and have had 100% solid employment since, my dad and I have worked at solid, steady employment for basically our entire working lives, and my mom has had the same employer for nearly 30 years.

There are jobs out there which are guaranteed solid employment, regardless of political climate. the NDP isnt going to get you a job just because you went to school for 5 years.

[adambomb]

My NDP friends are out celebrating. Posting pics of them buying growlers of craft beer, tacos, quirky art pieces and blu-ray sets. They appear to be ecstatic right now.

My Liberal friends are concerned. Posting pics of them doing home cooked meal prep, washing cars and reading stories about bitcoin futures. They appear to be tame right now.

I look forward to see how both groups adjust to the potential tax increases that are on the horizon. :considered:




My caucasian friends are embarrassed and hesitant to tell people they are 30 and still live with their parents. DansGame
My asian friends have no objections to telling people they are 30 and still live with their parents. SeemsGood

[MarkyMark]

So because you're 30 and married you're too good to live at your parents?

Some of those points are understandable, some are personal choices. Dat entitlement doe..

I was in a similar situation to Happyslip.. caucasian family who enabled me to succeed via supporting me through a roof over my head. They never gave me lump sums of cash for downpayments, nor did they cut me a substantial break on rent. However, with the breaks they gave me and my work ethic i was able to own two seperate properties before i was 30. One was a total mistake which almost ruined me but i continued to push through and it ended up working out. In the time i got into the first two properties i never made more than 72K a year.

One of the most expensive cities in the world doesnt have much room for excuses when it comes to finances.

What year was this in? What were the prices like compared to now? It still stands that without some kind of help you're screwed.

[MrPhreak]

I understand life was probably good for you with the Liberals, but that doesn't mean it was great for everyone.

Yeah, but life was much much worse under the NDP in the 90's

I kind of want to see how this nightmare NDP-Green alliance plays out in the eyes of the public. I think a lot of younger people in their 20's and early 30's were too young to realize the kind of real damage the NDP can do.

12 months of insane taxes, the disappearance of starter jobs due to a hiked minimum wage, heavy handed anti-business policies that result in huge layoffs and reduced wages... that will likely be enough for those who voted for the NDP to realize what they've done (one can hope anyway).

Then we can finally unite against them and get back to having one of the best provinces in the country.

[Hondaracer]

What year was this in? What were the prices like compared to now? It still stands that without some kind of help you're screwed.

2008 and 2011

[Jmac]

Yeah, but life was much much worse under the NDP in the 90's

I kind of want to see how this nightmare NDP-Green alliance plays out in the eyes of the public. I think a lot of younger people in their 20's and early 30's were too young to realize the kind of real damage the NDP can do.

12 months of insane taxes, the disappearance of starter jobs due to a hiked minimum wage, heavy handed anti-business policies that result in huge layoffs and reduced wages... that will likely be enough for those who voted for the NDP to realize what they've done (one can hope anyway).

Then we can finally unite against them and get back to having one of the best provinces in the country.
When you look at the unemployment numbers, the Liberals performed only marginally better than the NDP.

NDP was in power from 1991 to 2001. Liberals have been in power since. With a 1-year offset (taking power midway through year and it takes time for policies to be implemented), we see compared to the Canadian national average:

1992: -1.1%
1993: -1.7%
1994: -1.3%
1995: -1.0%
1996: -0.9%
1997: -0.6%
1998: +0.5%
1999: +0.7%
2000: +0.4%
2001: +0.5%

BC NDP average: -0.45%

2002: +0.8%
2003: +0.4%
2004: 0.0%
2005: -0.9%
2006: -1.5%
2007: -1.7%
2008: -1.5%
2009: -0.6%
2010: -0.5%
2011: +0.1%
2012: -0.5%
2013: -0.5%
2014: -0.8%
2015: -0.7%
2016: -1.0%

BC Liberal average: -0.59%

The NDP performed much better than the Canadian average under Harcourt (and worse than the Canadian average under Glen Clark, Miller, Dosanjh).

Meanwhile, the BC Liberals performed much better under Gordon Campbell than Christy Clark overall (though Clark still bested the Canadian average).

As for life being much worse, it depends on who you ask. Not everyone has benefited from the Liberal policies again, as indicated by the 44% popular vote and 43/87 seats.

How do you address the resentment of 5 of every 9 voting British Columbians? You reference younger people in their 20s and 30s, yet we know this is overwhelmingly the lowest turnout group.

In 2013, 18-34-year-old voters represented only 17% of the votes. I highly doubt that number changed significantly this go around.

Let's say 2/3 of these young voters didn't vote for the Liberals. That would mean the other 80% of the voters who voted against the Liberals were 35 and older (and would mean roughly the same number of 35+-year-olds voted against the Liberals as did for the Liberals).

[inv4zn]

^GTFO with facts, calculations, and educated assumptions!!!

lol, seriously. I enjoy these discussions on RS, but we're such a skewed sample size that's not as nearly as representative of the general population as we think.

[carisear]

I, did not flourish under liberal rule. All my adult life was under liberal reign, and not having experienced the alternative first-hand, the liberals are looking pretty shitty right now. I'm not some entitled SJW bitching about everything - I like to think I fall in the demographic that's hit hardest: I'm 29 years old, about to get married soon, pulling in 65K, and I haaate the liberals. Yes, I choose to live here and all that other jazz, but that's not to say things aren't fucked up a little bit.

I remain cautiously optimistic about BC under new leadership, and if the NDP/Green fuck things up as they apparently did 20 years ago, well then I'll change my vote next time.

Or get the fuck out, I donno.

Hey Inv4zn, I enjoy reading your posts. you clearly laid out why you voted ndp and why you don't vote for another party. what i'd like to know is how you, personally, are hit hard by liberal policy? With what you described, you should be reaping the benefits of a liberal gov't.

(please don't just say 'social programs! healthcare! education! housing!' people who say those things without offering any details are a waste of air.)

[MrPhreak]

When you look at the unemployment numbers, the Liberals performed only marginally better than the NDP.

NDP was in power from 1991 to 2001. Liberals have been in power since. With a 1-year offset (taking power midway through year and it takes time for policies to be implemented), we see compared to the Canadian national average:

1992: -1.1%
1993: -1.7%
1994: -1.3%
1995: -1.0%
1996: -0.9%
1997: -0.6%
1998: +0.5%
1999: +0.7%
2000: +0.4%
2001: +0.5%

BC NDP average: -0.45%

2002: +0.8%
2003: +0.4%
2004: 0.0%
2005: -0.9%
2006: -1.5%
2007: -1.7%
2008: -1.5%
2009: -0.6%
2010: -0.5%
2011: +0.1%
2012: -0.5%
2013: -0.5%
2014: -0.8%
2015: -0.7%
2016: -1.0%

BC Liberal average: -0.59%

The NDP performed much better than the Canadian average under Harcourt (and worse than the Canadian average under Glen Clark, Miller, Dosanjh).

Meanwhile, the BC Liberals performed much better under Gordon Campbell than Christy Clark overall (though Clark still bested the Canadian average).

As for life being much worse, it depends on who you ask. Not everyone has benefited from the Liberal policies again, as indicated by the 44% popular vote and 43/87 seats.

How do you address the resentment of 5 of every 9 voting British Columbians? You reference younger people in their 20s and 30s, yet we know this is overwhelmingly the lowest turnout group.

In 2013, 18-34-year-old voters represented only 17% of the votes. I highly doubt that number changed significantly this go around.

Let's say 2/3 of these young voters didn't vote for the Liberals. That would mean the other 80% of the voters who voted against the Liberals were 35 and older (and would mean roughly the same number of 35+-year-olds voted against the Liberals as did for the Liberals).

Looks like a nice create set of stats you got there, lol. Who published that, the Tyee?

How about we look at something more meaningful, like the actual unemployment rates?

The NDP held power in B.C. from 1991 to 2000. After they took power, in 1992... the heavy corporate taxes they burdened the provinces businesses with, caused employment to sky rocket to a whopping 10.1%. To give you an idea of just how incredibly shitty that is, right now Calgary is a fucking nightmare for people to find work and they are at around 9.3% right now. That is just one city, not an entire province.

Now to the NDP's credit, unemployment eventually dropped to 7.7% (still fucking horrible btw) by the end of the second term.. but then again, the province was basically on life support by the end of the NDP rein... average wages had dropped, and a lot of people had either just moved to another province or given up looking for work.

Now in comparison... this year, BC's unemployment dropped from 5.4% to 5.1% in January.... that is the lowest in the entire country. One of the reasons we are even having a housing crisis is because people are moving here, and mostly because we have a stellar economy.

How does that translate into tangible meaning for normal everyday people?

Let's put it this way... I was unfortunate enough to finish my schooling while the NDP was still in power. It was time to find a job, and get my life started.

I literally went up against hundreds of people for every single job, and employers had so many applicants they came up with creative awful ways to sort through them. Getting a job in my field was next to impossible, so I resorted to getting a job just to survive. I had to do an IQ and Dyslexia test for a part time teller job at Canadian Tire, I also had to do a 1000 question ethics test for a summer job with Telus. By the way, both of those interviews were held in a competitive classroom format. The shit that was going on was utterly unbelievable. Eventually I had to leave BC, I had no more money for rent, I was down to eating a single meal a day, it was either take a job in AB or basically end up on the street.

Meanwhile in Alberta the unemployment rate was 4.7%... I was able to find a job, and it turned into a pretty good career. Although it took a deep personal toll being away from my friends and family, and of course having to put up with Flames & Oilers fans. I certainly would have preferred to stay in my home province had there been any possible way for me to do that.

Flash forward to a year ago... NDP got into power, and suddenly unemployment in Calgary went to typical NDP levels. I watched as literally hundreds of people I know were laid off with no possibility of finding work. I personally got laid off, and I ended up working 2 part time jobs trying to make ends meet. The interviews I got for work also changed from pleasant meetings, to full on interrogations.

What I am trying to say here is, this is what 10% unemployment feels like. And without any reservation, I can tell you the NDP bring it every single time they get into power in every province.

You can blame downturns, or economic factors, or whatever else helps you justify this obscene track record they hold... go full Tyee retard if you want, but at the end of the day, the fact remains that the NDP are oblivious to how their feel good short sighted polices negatively impact the provincial economy.

[Traum]

Flash forward to a year ago... NDP got into power, and suddenly unemployment in Calgary went to typical NDP levels. I watched as literally hundreds of people I know were laid off with no possibility of finding work. I personally got laid off, and I ended up working 2 part time jobs trying to make ends meet. The interviews I got for work also changed from pleasant meetings, to full on interrogations.

...

You can blame downturns, or economic factors, or whatever else helps you justify this obscene track record they hold... go full Tyee retard if you want, but at the end of the day, the fact remains that the NDP are oblivious to how their feel good short sighted polices negatively impact the provincial economy.
In Alberta, I don't think it is completely fair to blame the current sorry state all on the NDP government. Oil prices tanked before the NDP came onboard, and shxt was already hitting the fan.

[inv4zn]

Hey Inv4zn, I enjoy reading your posts. you clearly laid out why you voted ndp and why you don't vote for another party. what i'd like to know is how you, personally, are hit hard by liberal policy? With what you described, you should be reaping the benefits of a liberal gov't.

(please don't just say 'social programs! healthcare! education! housing!' people who say those things without offering any details are a waste of air.)

Sure, assuming it's not some thinly veiled troll-post to draw out more bickering, I'll do my best. I voted NDP because they mostly align with my values, moreso than the liberals and the greens. Also I live in New West...which is always NDP lol.

Now, to be a little clearer, I'm going to be interchanging Clark, and Liberals freely - because to me they are one and the same. Her shenanigans are the ones of the BC Liberals, because well, they chose her to be lead. She was the premier.

Also, to directly answer your question, did Clark's actions directly affect me? No, probably not. As an example, her fucking up teacher's unions was after I graduated high school, so it didn't impact me directly. It probably impacted lots of parents who had to scramble for daycare, or teachers themselves, but not me directly.

But my point is this. Everything has gone up. ICBC rates have gone up, MSP premiums have gone up, BC Hydro bills have gone up, various taxes have gone up (gas tax, property tax, etc.). Traffic times have gone up because cheap-asses refuse to take the fuckup that is Golden Ears and Port Mann, and the Liberals are constantly crying about how there's no money for this, no money for that. So where the fuck did it all go.

The Liberals, in my mind, do not give a shit about the average citizen.

Yes, let's shut down Burrard Bridge to do some yoga, on tax payer's money, for publicity! Yes, let's sell government land to a liberal donor for far below appraised value! Yes, let's sell off BC water to a conglomerate corporation at pennies! Yes, let's spend millions of tax money on advertisements! Then there's the whole shitshow that was the HST, her "donations" from corporate buddies, and so much other controversy that I can't even remember now. They're constantly under fire for mismanagement of funds, from anything from chartering planes, to drawing out stupid lawsuits just driving up the costs.

And you know, you might be right. Given my demographic, maybe I am set to flourish under liberal policy, and new NDP/Green policies might fuck me. But I don't mind paying taxes as long as it's benefiting citizens, even if I'm not a direct beneficiary. I do mind when tax dollars are used for thinly and poorly veiled plans to enrich those who are already rich. And I'm tired of the BC Liberals who seem to be hellbent on making their party members, corporations, and the rich even richer, at the expense of us peasants. And apparently quite a few other peasants also think so.

TL;DR, I voted because I agree with NDP values as much as I think Christy Clark is a cunt, and really wanted to see her out. If in a few years I come to regret my decision, I'll come back here and post a picture of my sock in my mouth.

[Jmac]

Looks like a nice create set of stats you got there, lol. Who published that, the Tyee?

How about we look at something more meaningful, like the actual unemployment rates?

The NDP held power in B.C. from 1991 to 2000. After they took power, in 1992... the heavy corporate taxes they burdened the provinces businesses with, caused employment to sky rocket to a whopping 10.1%. To give you an idea of just how incredibly shitty that is, right now Calgary is a fucking nightmare for people to find work and they are at around 9.3% right now. That is just one city, not an entire province.

Now to the NDP's credit, unemployment eventually dropped to 7.7% (still fucking horrible btw) by the end of the second term.. but then again, the province was basically on life support by the end of the NDP rein... average wages had dropped, and a lot of people had either just moved to another province or given up looking for work.

Now in comparison... this year, BC's unemployment dropped from 5.4% to 5.1% in January.... that is the lowest in the entire country. One of the reasons we are even having a housing crisis is because people are moving here, and mostly because we have a stellar economy.

How does that translate into tangible meaning for normal everyday people?

Let's put it this way... I was unfortunate enough to finish my schooling while the NDP was still in power. It was time to find a job, and get my life started.

I literally went up against hundreds of people for every single job, and employers had so many applicants they came up with creative awful ways to sort through them. Getting a job in my field was next to impossible, so I resorted to getting a job just to survive. I had to do an IQ and Dyslexia test for a part time teller job at Canadian Tire, I also had to do a 1000 question ethics test for a summer job with Telus. By the way, both of those interviews were held in a competitive classroom format. The shit that was going on was utterly unbelievable. Eventually I had to leave BC, I had no more money for rent, I was down to eating a single meal a day, it was either take a job in AB or basically end up on the street.

Meanwhile in Alberta the unemployment rate was 4.7%... I was able to find a job, and it turned into a pretty good career. Although it took a deep personal toll being away from my friends and family, and of course having to put up with Flames & Oilers fans. I certainly would have preferred to stay in my home province had there been any possible way for me to do that.

Flash forward to a year ago... NDP got into power, and suddenly unemployment in Calgary went to typical NDP levels. I watched as literally hundreds of people I know were laid off with no possibility of finding work. I personally got laid off, and I ended up working 2 part time jobs trying to make ends meet. The interviews I got for work also changed from pleasant meetings, to full on interrogations.

What I am trying to say here is, this is what 10% unemployment feels like. And without any reservation, I can tell you the NDP bring it every single time they get into power in every province.

You can blame downturns, or economic factors, or whatever else helps you justify this obscene track record they hold... go full Tyee retard if you want, but at the end of the day, the fact remains that the NDP are oblivious to how their feel good short sighted polices negatively impact the provincial economy.
Statistics Canada, the ultimate SJW libtard snowflake source.

During that 1992 NDP hellhole of an economy, clearly the result of an NDP borderline communism dictatorship, the Canadian national average for unemployment was 11.2% and only Saskatchewan (8.0%, NDP), Manitoba (9.3%, PC), and Alberta (9.5%, PC) had better unemployment rates that year.

Oh fuck, all of Canada was above that "still fucking horrible btw" 7.7% that year (with NDP-led governments having the lowest and 4th lowest unemployment rates in the country). Maybe the entire fucking country was in a recession? Who's the retard here?

As for people moving here, BC had the 4th highest population growth between 2011 and 2016 in Canada at 5.6%, lagging behind Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.

As for Alberta, let's see. Shell announced over a year before the NDP got voted into power that they were pulling out of the oilsands as part of a $30B plan along with many of the other major players. The writing had been on the wall for years. But, clearly, all the NDP's fault that world economics and decades of putting all their eggs in one fucking basket resulted in mass layoffs.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Sure, assuming it's not some thinly veiled troll-post to draw out more bickering, I'll do my best. I voted NDP because they mostly align with my values, moreso than the liberals and the greens. Also I live in New West...which is always NDP lol.

Now, to be a little clearer, I'm going to be interchanging Clark, and Liberals freely - because to me they are one and the same. Her shenanigans are the ones of the BC Liberals, because well, they chose her to be lead. She was the premier.

Also, to directly answer your question, did Clark's actions directly affect me? No, probably not. As an example, her fucking up teacher's unions was after I graduated high school, so it didn't impact me directly. It probably impacted lots of parents who had to scramble for daycare, or teachers themselves, but not me directly.

But my point is this. Everything has gone up. ICBC rates have gone up, MSP premiums have gone up, BC Hydro bills have gone up, various taxes have gone up (gas tax, property tax, etc.). Traffic times have gone up because cheap-asses refuse to take the fuckup that is Golden Ears and Port Mann, and the Liberals are constantly crying about how there's no money for this, no money for that. So where the fuck did it all go.

The Liberals, in my mind, do not give a shit about the average citizen.

Yes, let's shut down Burrard Bridge to do some yoga, on tax payer's money, for publicity! Yes, let's sell government land to a liberal donor for far below appraised value! Yes, let's sell off BC water to a conglomerate corporation at pennies! Yes, let's spend millions of tax money on advertisements! Then there's the whole shitshow that was the HST, her "donations" from corporate buddies, and so much other controversy that I can't even remember now. They're constantly under fire for mismanagement of funds, from anything from chartering planes, to drawing out stupid lawsuits just driving up the costs.

And you know, you might be right. Given my demographic, maybe I am set to flourish under liberal policy, and new NDP/Green policies might fuck me. But I don't mind paying taxes as long as it's benefiting citizens, even if I'm not a direct beneficiary. I do mind when tax dollars are used for thinly and poorly veiled plans to enrich those who are already rich. And I'm tired of the BC Liberals who seem to be hellbent on making their party members, corporations, and the rich even richer, at the expense of us peasants. And apparently quite a few other peasants also think so.

TL;DR, I voted because I agree with NDP values as much as I think Christy Clark is a cunt, and really wanted to see her out. If in a few years I come to regret my decision, I'll come back here and post a picture of my sock in my mouth.

Things gone up coz of infliction, drop of our dollar etc etc. But those thongs happen. You don't expect things to be same forever do you?

I experience how horrible a NDP gov is and with their campaign of reckless, tax corporation to death + Green party of driving all foreign investors away. All I can say is hold on to your money, save, actually try to work hard and work and hope you can weather the storm.

I am a greedy person I rather see more money in my pocket so I can decide if I want to spend it or save it. Giving my hard earn dollar to some drug addict to so he can keep on getting high. Yea no thanks. I believe Socialism doesn't work. It makes people lazy since you know they will get support anyways so why work. It leaves the hard working wondering why work so hard when I can be lazy and just rely on gov for support. It also drives business away as other cities have lower tax and they can make more money. Business is there to make money, business owners takes risk to make more money. If running a business is so easy we would all be business owners now.

[inv4zn]

Things gone up coz of infliction, drop of our dollar etc etc. But those thongs happen. You don't expect things to be same forever do you?

I experience how horrible a NDP gov is and with their campaign of reckless, tax corporation to death + Green party of driving all foreign investors away. All I can say is hold on to your money, save, actually try to work hard and work and hope you can weather the storm.

I am a greedy person I rather see more money in my pocket so I can decide if I want to spend it or save it. Giving my hard earn dollar to some drug addict to so he can keep on getting high. Yea no thanks. I believe Socialism doesn't work. It makes people lazy since you know they will get support anyways so why work. It leaves the hard working wondering why work so hard when I can be lazy and just rely on gov for support. It also drives business away as other cities have lower tax and they can make more money. Business is there to make money, business owners takes risk to make more money. If running a business is so easy we would all be business owners now.

Thank you, I understand the concept of inflation. So raising shit that we all pay for is due to inflation and not corruption/mismanagement, but raising the minimum wage is socialism and free handouts? Which is it? I don't agree with burger flippers making $31K, but it's impossible to live on current minimum wage, because of inflation. That said, I too think $15/hr is stupid.

Also, thank you for reiterating that businesses are there to make money. It's as if I'd forgotten that fundamental concept for a second there. I don't even know what risk has to do with any of this.

Lastly, socialism kind of does work, when people aren't as greedy and shitty. Look at some of the more progressive governments across the pond. Sure they have their own problems but socialism isn't the end-all, when pulled off right. Do I think it'll work here? No, not at all.

One more thing - how fucking old are you? If I'm 29 and haven't lived through previous NDP years to feel any of it, then..are you like...40? Because if you are, it's a little less impressive that you saved up enough for a down payment and what not, because you had like 20 years to do it...which kinda contradicts all your salty talk. And if you're not 40...well then you're probably just lying about how you know firsthand how terrible NDP rule was. Just saying.

[GS8]

With the Liberals losing relevancy in this province, I'd love it if they went back to using their old party name.

Liberal is just so misleading. A lying party right from birth.

Meanwhile in NS:

Liberals score back-to-back majorities in Nova Scotia nail-biter - Nova Scotia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/provincial-election-liberals-mcneil-wins-vote-1.4138000)

Oh look, an actual Liberal party won. Whoda thunk dat?

[stewie]

Yeah, but life was much much worse under the NDP in the 90's

I kind of want to see how this nightmare NDP-Green alliance plays out in the eyes of the public. I think a lot of younger people in their 20's and early 30's were too young to realize the kind of real damage the NDP can do.

12 months of insane taxes, the disappearance of starter jobs due to a hiked minimum wage, heavy handed anti-business policies that result in huge layoffs and reduced wages... that will likely be enough for those who voted for the NDP to realize what they've done (one can hope anyway).

Then we can finally unite against them and get back to having one of the best provinces in the country.

People in their 20's and early 30's may not have lived first hand to remember or experience any of the fuck ups they did but they sure the fuck will remember being 20-30 right now and how liberals made home ownership nearly impossible and has shot down their dream of ever having the nice house with green grass and a white picket fence. Unless they move to butt fuck nowhere and give up their social life of going out with friends and seeing family. They've had a long time to take action on this sensitive topic for a good portion of time and it's a surprise that when there's only months to an election they introduce a tax to help cool down the RE market and look like saviors. Too little too late. Fuck them all.

I'm glad the NDP/Greens can take power. I'd rather test 4 years of new living and take the chance at a better lifestyle than spend another 4 years of corruption, lies, and games.

[quasi]

People in their 20's and early 30's may not have lived first hand to remember or experience any of the fuck ups they did but they sure the fuck will remember being 20-30 right now and how liberals made home ownership nearly impossible and has shot down their dream of ever having the nice house with green grass and a white picket fence. Unless they move to butt fuck nowhere and give up their social life of going out with friends and seeing family. They've had a long time to take action on this sensitive topic for a good portion of time and it's a surprise that when there's only months to an election they introduce a tax to help cool down the RE market and look like saviors. Too little too late. Fuck them all.

I'm glad the NDP/Greens can take power. I'd rather test 4 years of new living and take the chance at a better lifestyle than spend another 4 years of corruption, lies, and games.

I can understand the change part but they all lie are corrupt and play games. The last Liberal Premiere convicted of DUI, the NDP Premier before him gave out a casino license to a known gangster in exchange for work on his house, they are all crooks as far as I'm concerned.

[MarkyMark]

That's just me but there are others who came to Vancouver who are able to start from 0 to getting their own place. Maybe instead of working one full time job take another part time? Maybe volunteer to work on holidays to get holiday pay?

As I mention earlier the family that rents the basement most likely make less than 80k a year yet after 5 to 6 years the save enough to purchase a townhome with 3 kids. Yea the dad works 3 jobs at least and goes out collecting cans and bottles as well. Sometimes you have to do things you hate to get where you want to go. He doesn't have a choice. He got 3 kids and parents to take care of oversea. Is just sad when people complain about not being able to afford a place while going to into Starbucks getting a latte.

I am very lucky to have my parents' support. I always like to think how much people are willing sacrifice their lifestyle to save? Not too many I bet are willing to change. I see two side of the spectrum. I see friends who already purchase multi units working 7 days 2 to 3 jobs constantly. Sure they don't get to enjoy life now but when they retire or decided to sell they are going to be the one smiling. I also have friends who live pay cheque to pay cheque, going out for dinner every week, leasing cars that doesn't fit their income all for the glory on FB/Wechat, buying new clothes weekly but puts nothing into saving or RRSP. When shit hits the fan they are going to be one crying. I don't know I always feel like how or what you do/act now will affect your future and there is one to blame but yourself.


So working 3 jobs and collecting pop bottles on top of that is what is expected of people now. Of course this comes from someone who did none of that and got a free ride until he saved up what he needed to. Sorry but if 3 jobs and fighting off hobo's to collect cans is where the average person is at at afford a place now, then maybe we do need the NDP to fuck everything up and reset this shit show.

Homeowners who bought before shit went crazy love to boast about how much they sacrificed to get where they are, where in reality if they were trying to get in the market now they would be just as fucked as everyone else.

[MrPhreak]

In Alberta, I don't think it is completely fair to blame the current sorry state all on the NDP government. Oil prices tanked before the NDP came onboard, and shxt was already hitting the fan.

I was waiting for that comment. It also tanked in 2001, and in 2008... actually I was working out there initially when oil was cheaper than it is now and the industry out there was flourishing. The difference was the government took action to encourage new investment. The main reason that it isn't doing well is because companies are afraid to invest with the NDP in power.

One good example of how they do this:
Alberta government to revisit tax assessments for oil and gas industry | Calgary Herald (http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/alberta-government-to-revisit-tax-assessments-for-oil-and-gas-industry)

Statistics Canada, the ultimate SJW libtard snowflake source.

During that 1992 NDP hellhole of an economy, clearly the result of an NDP borderline communism dictatorship, the Canadian national average for unemployment was 11.2% and only Saskatchewan (8.0%, NDP), Manitoba (9.3%, PC), and Alberta (9.5%, PC) had better unemployment rates that year.

Oh fuck, all of Canada was above that "still fucking horrible btw" 7.7% that year (with NDP-led governments having the lowest and 4th lowest unemployment rates in the country). Maybe the entire fucking country was in a recession? Who's the retard here?

As for people moving here, BC had the 4th highest population growth between 2011 and 2016 in Canada at 5.6%, lagging behind Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.

As for Alberta, let's see. Shell announced over a year before the NDP got voted into power that they were pulling out of the oilsands as part of a $30B plan along with many of the other major players. The writing had been on the wall for years. But, clearly, all the NDP's fault that world economics and decades of putting all their eggs in one fucking basket resulted in mass layoffs.

Are you saying the entire country goes into a recession as a group, lol? You do realize that AB is in a recession right now, while BC is booming right?

I do find it amusing you are defending the NDP era as being some sort of prosperous period in BC when it was the exact opposite. The Business Council of B.C has confirmed many times that B.C. was last among 10 provinces in the average annual growth of business investment from 1991 to 2000. I have to ask, if we were doing so well, why did the NDP get voted down to 2 seats after only 2 terms? I mean the Liberals are on their 4th term, and they still technically have the popular vote over the NDP.

When we come to this time next year and unemployment has gone up by 30% or perhaps even more, are you going to blame it on the RE bubble finally popping, or at least acknowledge that the NDP/Green party induced it by pulling the legs out from virtually every industry in some sort of socialist orgy from hell?

They will undoubtedly kill LNG, all of the jobs (and revenue) associated with the pipeline, kill the last remaining logging industry on the coast by stopping raw log exports, kill the residential RE construction boom in Vancouver, kill a lot of jobs related to the coal industry, kill jobs in fish farming... it just goes on and on.

[Tapioca]

The 1990s were fine if you were a unionized worker with no aspirations to make more money than a middle class salary. If you had any ambition, you left the province because there was nothing for you here. My dad was a unionized worker and things were fine for us.

Tuition was frozen, but the universities were in shambles. We still had debates about housing (monster homes, Hong Kong immigrants), but you could still afford a modest detached home if you had a job. If the ambitious start leaving and people stop coming, maybe you'll be able to afford that detached house.

[Hondaracer]

Horgan and weaver on the radio just now - "Everyone thinks everything costs money"

That's about all you need to know.

They ran on a platform on shutting down Site C dam, yet they will allow operations to continue until they've done a "full assessment" on the project and contacted all parties concerned. So you're going to let months/years go by on a project that you may end up shutting down? Thats a good use of funds..

I honestly dont know how anyone who has actually listened to Horgan speak could have voted for him.. They constantly harp on the Hydro rates and Hydro's debt, yet no one acknowledges that this is how public works WORK, you go into debt in order to build infrastructure to future proof the system, otherwise you will be hit with hard with the bills once the infrastructure needs to be updated when it's already decades behind..

[Traum]

I was waiting for that comment. It also tanked in 2001, and in 2008... actually I was working out there initially when oil was cheaper than it is now and the industry out there was flourishing. The difference was the government took action to encourage new investment. The main reason that it isn't doing well is because companies are afraid to invest with the NDP in power.

One good example of how they do this:
Alberta government to revisit tax assessments for oil and gas industry | Calgary Herald (http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/alberta-government-to-revisit-tax-assessments-for-oil-and-gas-industry)

If you are using 2001 and 2008 as examples, I'd have to say the world as well as the oil economy looked quite a bit different back then. In 2001, the first Toyota Prius has only been out for a few years, and hardly anybody took hybrids seriously. 2008 is a little different. The Prius is well into its 2nd gen, and the car has well established itself -- along with the hybrid vehicle idea --
among environmentally conscious people. The general public have started taking notice and become accepting of running hybrids vehicles themselves.

Flash forward to 2015 when the Alberta NDP came into power. Auto manufacturers are all getting pinched to come up with highly fuel efficient vehicles in their next rounds of vehicle overhauls. The increasingly stringent fuel economy requirements simply cannot be met from any conceivable ICE design -- the writing is already on the wall for the good ol' ICE as we know it and the big established oil companies are re-aligning themselves in preparation for a new energy era. Is it a surprise that an oil-economy based Alberta finds itself in economic hardship in the midst of this tectonic shift?

Again, I am not saying the NDP is not to be blamed. Rather, I'm just saying you can't blame all the woes Alberta is facing on the NDP.

[MarkyMark]

Rumor has it if you go into your bathroom, turn the lights off and say "NDP" into the mirror three times, you'll lose your job.

[Hehe]

I'd take a different perspective as an NDP voter.

I'm a first gen immigrant that came to Canada at the turn of century, so, I'm just taking a blank page approach.

The way I see it between BC liberal and NDP... or any election for that matter is that you have to take a view at present value. NDP might have fucked up in the past, but it's not a representation that they are going to fuck up forever and vice versa for liberal.

Taking at current value, which is the beauty of democracy, is to see what party/candidate fits your vision for the next few years better. Just because someone has done well in the past is not a guarantee to do so in the future if he/she doesn't share your value. To further expand the "beauty of democracy" is to not blindly follow any person/party. If they are not doing it well, CHANGE them!

Politician needs votes to stay in power. If they know it doesn't matter how much they screw up, they would get vote, then most likely they wouldn't care much about screwing up.

I voted NDP only partially because their vision fits mine better, but because I honestly feel the Liberals has fuck'd up in the last few years. So, instead of continuing letting them try to not fuck anything else up, I'd vote someone else to try something different... not necessarily better... just different, because I knew how one particular approach went and it didn't work.

[SkunkWorks]

Exactly.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results.

[carisear]

TL;DR, I voted because I agree with NDP values as much as I think Christy Clark is a cunt, and really wanted to see her out. If in a few years I come to regret my decision, I'll come back here and post a picture of my sock in my mouth.

And that's the beauty of our system -- not voting someone in, but having the ability to vote someone out.

for the record, i'm a very centre, right leaning fiscal kinda guy, but I also believe that 16 years of one party rule is too long. I was a big fan of Gordon Campbell, but not a fan of Christy Clark at all. I absolutely support people voting, or not voting when they have their own informed reason to.

I do disagree with a lot of your reasons though, as being a liberal/Christy issue. ie selling a natural resource is a nafta/federal issue, people being too cheap to pay a toll is a personal issue -- the province gave the people the choice to be cheap or not though, the HST was a 'good' tax for bc, but politics killed it.. but that was a Christy decision so I guess I agree with you on that one ...


BTW, the liberal party of BC is actually pretty damn liberal -- they aren't conservative like the far left would like you to believe. Fiscal policy they are right, but socially and environmentally they are waaaaay more left than many left leaning parties around the world. BC is just so skewed to the left that they appear more right wing than they actually are.

[inv4zn]

And that's the beauty of our system -- not voting someone in, but having the ability to vote someone out.

for the record, i'm a very centre, right leaning fiscal kinda guy, but I also believe that 16 years of one party rule is too long. I was a big fan of Gordon Campbell, but not a fan of Christy Clark at all. I absolutely support people voting, or not voting when they have their own informed reason to.

I do disagree with a lot of your reasons though, as being a liberal/Christy issue. ie selling a natural resource is a nafta/federal issue, people being too cheap to pay a toll is a personal issue -- the province gave the people the choice to be cheap or not though, the HST was a 'good' tax for bc, but politics killed it.. but that was a Christy decision so I guess I agree with you on that one ...


BTW, the liberal party of BC is actually pretty damn liberal -- they aren't conservative like the far left would like you to believe. Fiscal policy they are right, but socially and environmentally they are waaaaay more left than many left leaning parties around the world. BC is just so skewed to the left that they appear more right wing than they actually are.

All I remember of Gordon Campbell is his DUI mugshot in Hawaii..lol.

I'd like to respectfully disagree with your disagreeing though. Sure, it might be unfair to place ALL the blame on clark/liberals, but they sure as hell had a hand in all of it.

Selling BC water is as much a BC issue as it is a NAFTA one, and could have been handled monumentally better. The bridge, MOTI had a big hand in that being the mess it is. Leaving cheapshits who'd rather waste 40 minutes than spend $3 out of the picture, how it was designed/awarded/built was not fiscally responsible in any sense. And the province didn't realllly give them a choice. The SFPR is a nice road, but they've conveniently left out exits at the places people really want to get to. HST failed because of lies and deceit.

And while I agree with you that on the political spectrum the liberals aren't as conservative, on the BC stage, they sure as hell are.

But alas, I digress - let's see what happens.

But fuck Christy Clark :troll:

[Hondaracer]

Sure, assuming it's not some thinly veiled troll-post to draw out more bickering, I'll do my best. I voted NDP because they mostly align with my values, moreso than the liberals and the greens. Also I live in New West...which is always NDP lol.

Now, to be a little clearer, I'm going to be interchanging Clark, and Liberals freely - because to me they are one and the same. Her shenanigans are the ones of the BC Liberals, because well, they chose her to be lead. She was the premier.

Also, to directly answer your question, did Clark's actions directly affect me? No, probably not. As an example, her fucking up teacher's unions was after I graduated high school, so it didn't impact me directly. It probably impacted lots of parents who had to scramble for daycare, or teachers themselves, but not me directly.

But my point is this. Everything has gone up. ICBC rates have gone up, MSP premiums have gone up, BC Hydro bills have gone up, various taxes have gone up (gas tax, property tax, etc.). Traffic times have gone up because cheap-asses refuse to take the fuckup that is Golden Ears and Port Mann, and the Liberals are constantly crying about how there's no money for this, no money for that. So where the fuck did it all go.

The Liberals, in my mind, do not give a shit about the average citizen.

Yes, let's shut down Burrard Bridge to do some yoga, on tax payer's money, for publicity! Yes, let's sell government land to a liberal donor for far below appraised value! Yes, let's sell off BC water to a conglomerate corporation at pennies! Yes, let's spend millions of tax money on advertisements! Then there's the whole shitshow that was the HST, her "donations" from corporate buddies, and so much other controversy that I can't even remember now. They're constantly under fire for mismanagement of funds, from anything from chartering planes, to drawing out stupid lawsuits just driving up the costs.

And you know, you might be right. Given my demographic, maybe I am set to flourish under liberal policy, and new NDP/Green policies might fuck me. But I don't mind paying taxes as long as it's benefiting citizens, even if I'm not a direct beneficiary. I do mind when tax dollars are used for thinly and poorly veiled plans to enrich those who are already rich. And I'm tired of the BC Liberals who seem to be hellbent on making their party members, corporations, and the rich even richer, at the expense of us peasants. And apparently quite a few other peasants also think so.

TL;DR, I voted because I agree with NDP values as much as I think Christy Clark is a cunt, and really wanted to see her out. If in a few years I come to regret my decision, I'll come back here and post a picture of my sock in my mouth.

If you can formulate an opinion like this, i've got all the time in the world for discussion.

If you vote with the idea of "anyone but" you can fuck off as far as i'm concerned.

[MarkyMark]

How else do you create change though? In your perfect world everyone who hated the Liberals would just not vote, and the Liberals would keep getting voted back in. Maybe now the Liberals can go back to the drawing board and find out why so many people were pissed off.

[Hondaracer]

honestly, voting for the NDP because you dont like paying a bridge toll that saves 1-2 hours of your day is asinine imo.

All the platforms had flaws but outside of the "housing crisis" to me the greater good of the province stood with the liberals.

This election was nothing like that of the states where people were so down and out that they were having food stamps cut off and living in dumpsters so they might as well vote Trump. People didnt like paying taxes and fee increases for things which were virtually essential services. Highway upgrades, Hydro, Infastructure, etc. People like to cry about the lack of infrastructure upgrades and projects in the same breathe they speak about road closures/construction. Most of that is infrastructure.

Liberals handled it poorly and their last ditch attempt to hold onto power was too little too late, but i think for most, they didnt even know what they were voting for other than a change for the sake of change, and they heard their might be a bit more money in their pocket one way or another. Most didnt take the time to consider where that money would be coming from.

[Bouncing Bettys]

http://i.imgur.com/IAfk1KA.gif

[MarkyMark]

honestly, voting for the NDP because you dont like paying a bridge toll that saves 1-2 hours of your day is asinine imo.

All the platforms had flaws but outside of the "housing crisis" to me the greater good of the province stood with the liberals.

This election was nothing like that of the states where people were so down and out that they were having food stamps cut off and living in dumpsters so they might as well vote Trump. People didnt like paying taxes and fee increases for things which were virtually essential services. Highway upgrades, Hydro, Infastructure, etc. People like to cry about the lack of infrastructure upgrades and projects in the same breathe they speak about road closures/construction. Most of that is infrastructure.

Liberals handled it poorly and their last ditch attempt to hold onto power was too little too late, but i think for most, they didnt even know what they were voting for other than a change for the sake of change, and they heard their might be a bit more money in their pocket one way or another. Most didnt take the time to consider where that money would be coming from.

I can see why it's frustrating for you when someone votes that way because it affected you negatively. For them, life was shit with the Liberals, so what does it matter if it's shit with the NDP? In reality the people who had it great under the Liberals will probably be the ones with the most to lose from this, not them.

[inv4zn]

I think the best tl;dr for this situation is this.

People would rather get fucked by the new (old) guy telling them how they will probably be fucked, rather than verrrrry slowly get fucked for 17 years.

And if you don't feel like you've been fucked, well then that's a good thing for you. But just because you haven't been fucked, to downplay everyone else who (rightfully or wrongfully) feel as if they've been fucked, is pretty fucked up.

[GS8]

https://twitter.com/PennyDaflos/status/869720729310420996

:haha:

[6o4__boi]

Christy's been listening to some Kendrick

[yray]

Everybody enjoy your $15 mcdicks meals and $8 coffees.

[MrPhreak]

How else do you create change though? In your perfect world everyone who hated the Liberals would just not vote, and the Liberals would keep getting voted back in. Maybe now the Liberals can go back to the drawing board and find out why so many people were pissed off.

As much as I dislike the NDP, I actually have to agree with you on this point

The Liberals did ignore the housing market when they should have stepped in with calming measures. They also haven't done as much as I thought they should have when it comes to reducing the BC debt. In addition, they didn't end the practice of raiding ICBC and BC Hydro coffers that the NDP started, which has resulted in hiked rates on what is essentially a monopolized government service. Education and Health care have also taken a pretty big hit in funding over the years, all without really seeing the benefits to all of those savings anywhere else.

This Green-NDP alliance will at least give them an opportunity to reflect on some of their oversights on these important issues. Clark's dropping popularity is also something they need to rectify, selecting a new leader is critical for them to move forward.


Now realistically, if the Liberals had held on somehow or entered a power sharing deal with the Greens, disdain would have continued to grow and they would have been totally out in the next election. A majority NDP government for a full 4 year term would be a complete nightmare.

At least in this scenario, with the public so strongly divided, the NDP-Green alliance won't hold up long against intense scrutiny. The two parties will reach an impasse where they can no longer sacrifice their party values, and the agreement will likely fall apart on a critical confidence vote. My prediction is when this coalition falls apart in about a years time, the Liberals are going to walk out of it with a very strong majority, and hopefully some tweaks to the party platform that work better for residents of BC.

[Traum]

If the NDP and the Greens are willing to behave like sensible adults in a work environment, and focus on working on stuff where they share common grounds while postponing / delaying the items that they disagree on, I honestly don't see why they can't last more than 3 years as Weaver has suggested. There is a LOT of work to be done, and they share enough common ground that can at least negotiate (and hopefully compromise) on to make the government last.

Even if they can't work well together, it would be political suicide for at least either the NDP or the Greens (or perhaps both) to end the minority government in anything less than 2+ years. Voters tend to punish political parties that end parliament too early, and all parties involved know this. I suspect Weaver understand this concept quite well, and for Horgan, he has far more to lose than Weaver/Greens do, so he'd be stupid to not try hard and make this work.

[Mr.HappySilp]

So working 3 jobs and collecting pop bottles on top of that is what is expected of people now. Of course this comes from someone who did none of that and got a free ride until he saved up what he needed to. Sorry but if 3 jobs and fighting off hobo's to collect cans is where the average person is at at afford a place now, then maybe we do need the NDP to fuck everything up and reset this shit show.

Homeowners who bought before shit went crazy love to boast about how much they sacrificed to get where they are, where in reality if they were trying to get in the market now they would be just as fucked as everyone else.

Again that's your choice. You can just rent if you like. No one is pointing a gun to your head forcing you to buy. If you did read my post I clearly stated hie had 3 kids and a wife who only works part time. Maybe instead of having 3 kids and then decide to buy, have no kids first? Kids do cost a lot of money. May hold off having kids first?

Owing a house/apartment/townhomes is not a right is a privilege. If people want to own then they need to sacrifice something to get there. There are no free rides. I live with parents to save. Yea there are still sacrifices I have to make.

Take a min and think how many jobs/jobs sector/industry the directly or indirectly relying on the real estate market. That pops and how many people is going to lose their job. Sure the market is crush but how many people actually have a job to afford a place after? How many people actually save enough to jump into the market to buy?

[quasi]

Again that's your choice. You can just rent if you like. No one is pointing a gun to your head forcing you to buy. If you did read my post I clearly stated hie had 3 kids and a wife who only works part time. Maybe instead of having 3 kids and then decide to buy, have no kids first? Kids do cost a lot of money. May hold off having kids first?

Owing a house/apartment/townhomes is not a right is a privilege. If people want to own then they need to sacrifice something to get there. There are no free rides. I live with parents to save. Yea there are still sacrifices I have to make.



This was my situation 13 years ago when my wife wanted a house, I gave her a choice. We could start a family and stay where we were or we could move and wait on starting a family until we were making more money. She chose the kid, down the rode once we were both making more money she got the house as well.

We chose to only have 1 kid for the same reason, kids are expensive!! Full time daycare from 1 to 10 wasn't cheap, we both work full time and always have. It's all about choices and timing, sometimes you have defer things you want until the time is right. I'd really love a new truck right now, I could afford it but it makes more financial sense to save up a bit more and either pay for it all at once or put most of the money down and take a small loan paying it off quick.

I'm all about living within my means. I have friends that all they care about is, can I make the minimum monthly payment? That's not me, I'm all about as little debt as possible. If it takes me years to save for something so be it.

[Tapioca]

I feel badly for those under 30 today. You definitely have to be more strategic about your life choices. The problem is that parenting and the education system haven't caught up with the times.

Anyway, I'm kind of eager to see how this government plays out. My prediction is that this lasts 18 months and that Christy Clark remains the Liberal Party leader and mounts a comeback.

[MarkyMark]

Again that's your choice. You can just rent if you like. No one is pointing a gun to your head forcing you to buy. If you did read my post I clearly stated hie had 3 kids and a wife who only works part time. Maybe instead of having 3 kids and then decide to buy, have no kids first? Kids do cost a lot of money. May hold off having kids first?

Yeah because with the price of real estate going sky high rent is becoming more and more affordable here. And then you can get renovicted at any time, that is reassuring. I don't even have kids, I couldn't imagine that burden on top of all the other costs.

Owing a house/apartment/townhomes is not a right is a privilege. If people want to own then they need to sacrifice something to get there. There are no free rides. I live with parents to save. Yea there are still sacrifices I have to make.

Sorry but living with parents while saving your money is about as free of a ride as you can get, so excuse me if I don't take your hardships as serious as someone who didn't get that luxury.

[MarkyMark]

This was my situation 13 years ago when my wife wanted a house, I gave her a choice. We could start a family and stay where we were or we could move and wait on starting a family until we were making more money. She chose the kid, down the rode once we were both making more money she got the house as well.

We chose to only have 1 kid for the same reason, kids are expensive!! Full time daycare from 1 to 10 wasn't cheap, we both work full time and always have. It's all about choices and timing, sometimes you have defer things you want until the time is right. I'd really love a new truck right now, I could afford it but it makes more financial sense to save up a bit more and either pay for it all at once or put most of the money down and take a small loan paying it off quick.

I'm all about living within my means. I have friends that all they care about is, can I make the minimum monthly payment? That's not me, I'm all about as little debt as possible. If it takes me years to save for something so be it.

Would you say your situation 13 years ago is anywhere near comparable to what's going on now though? Say if you guys were just starting out now, would what you have even be an option with today's prices?

[quasi]

Would you say your situation 13 years ago is anywhere near comparable to what's going on now though? Say if you guys were just starting out now, would what you have even be an option with today's prices?

Looking at what places are going for now I'd be in a townhouse and not a house.

[vitaminG]

Sounds to me like this coalition is headed off the rails.
I think weaver bet on the wrong horse here and will get punished if there's another election.

Mike Smyth: Weaver says NDP-Green alliance could be in trouble | The Province (http://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-there-could-be-trouble-brewing-in-ndp-green-paradise)



MIKE SMYTH
More from Mike Smyth
Published: June 14, 2017
Updated: June 14, 2017 3:09 AM PDT
Filed Under:
The Province News Politics
Victoria, we have a problem.

The NDP-Green power-sharing agreement appeared to show cracks on Tuesday over the crucial issue of who will serve as the speaker in a minority parliament.

That was evident in a conversation I had with B.C. Green party Leader Andrew Weaver, who said the New Democrats assured him in negotiations they would convince a Liberal to serve as speaker in an NDP-controlled legislature.

“The NDP essentially made us understand that they had been in conversation with some B.C. Liberals and that it would be no problem for them to find a speaker from within the B.C. Liberal ranks,” Weaver said.

He said the NDP “approached a couple of people” about the job, adding Liberal MLAs Linda Reid and Sam Sullivan were considered prime targets.

“A bunch of names were mentioned,” Weaver said. “Sam and Linda were two obvious ones.”

But it now appears no Liberal is willing to take the speaker’s job if the NDP seizes power — something Weaver said could create trouble for the NDP-Green alliance.

“Would it be a problem with our agreement? It would certainly make us pause and reflect upon the conditions of our agreement being met,” he said.

The selection of a speaker is crucial because the party standings in the 87-seat legislature are so tight after the razor-close May 9 election.

The NDP-Green alliance has 44 seats, while the governing Liberals have 43. The NDP and Greens have agreed to defeat Premier Christy Clark’s Liberals on a non-confidence motion in the legislature, which resumes sitting on June 22.

Weaver said it would then be important to get a Liberal in the speaker’s chair so the NDP-Green alliance doesn’t give up a crucial vote in the legislature.

“What I have said all along is certainty is very important to us,” Weaver said.

“Certainty and the agreement come hand-in-hand with there being a speaker coming from the Liberals.”

Christy Clark indicated a Liberal MLA will take the speaker’s job when she faces the legislature next Thursday. But it appears all bets will be off if the NDP and Greens gang up to defeat her government.

Judith Guichon, the lieutenant-governor, would then have the option to invite Horgan to form an NDP minority government, propped up by Weaver’s three Green MLAs.

But it appears no Liberal MLA — including Sullivan — will let their name stand for speaker with the NDP in power.

“On the speaker’s role, I can confirm that I have not been asked by the NDP or the Green party,” Sullivan said. “Were I to be asked, I would say ‘no.’ ”

A Liberal official said none of the party’s MLAs wants the job with the NDP in power.

That could force the New Democrats to put one of their own MLAs forward to be the speaker.

But that could create a problem, Weaver said, because the speaker doesn’t vote except to break a tie, which could become the norm in the deadlocked legislature.

“We’ll have a situation where it’s 43 to 43, with the speaker breaking the tie,” Weaver said.

“The speaker would have to make a decision as to whether they vote ‘yes’ on a bill to make it law. Typically, a speaker might be concerned if there wasn’t a majority on the floor already.

“One of the things we need is to ensure we give people certainty in the province of British Columbia. That is what we were looking to get.

“Certainty to us meant that the speaker wasn’t going to be voting to pass each and every bill. I don’t know how they’re going to deal with that.”

Weaver, however, said the Greens still support their agreement with the NDP, the text of which said nothing about a Liberal being the speaker.

“We’re committed to following through on our agreement, but we want to see what they’re going to do with the speaker,” he said.

“We would have to see if they have a plan in terms of how we can keep the legislature functioning with certainty. This is not our problem. That is the NDP problem.”

NDP Leader John Horgan was asked about the issue Tuesday after Norman Spector, an adviser to the Greens, tweeted that the NDP-Green deal was “predicated on defection from Liberal caucus.”

“I don’t recall that,” Horgan said, adding he’s just anxious to form a government.

But Sullivan, freshly appointed to cabinet by Clark, said he thinks the unusual situation could force another election.

“What is happening right now is highly unstable,” Sullivan told CKNW’s Simi Sara.

“The numbers just don’t work. The only thing I can conclude is there probably is an election coming.”

That election call could come from Guichon, the lieutenant-governor. If she decides the NDP and Greens can’t make their deal work, she just might decide it’s better to go back to the people and let them decide

[Traum]

Personally, I don't see it as the coalition headed off the rails. As soon as the MLA numbers were finalized, all major media analysis has pointed this Speaker of the House issue as an expected thorn in the process.

For Horgan, Weaver, or any of their party members involved to think that they could lure a Liberals MLA into acting as the speaker, I'd say they are more than a bit naive. And with the way things are headed, if the minority government does get toppled, any reasonable follower of the provincial political news can easily and sensibly come up with a number of legitimate reasons as to why the votes in a re-election would swing one way or another.

If it does come down to yet another election in the near future, I'd suspect Horgan is going to try his best to smear the Liberals as the culprit. If they public buys his story, they will punish the Libs during the vote.

From the results of the election, what is crystal clear is that voters in this province are sick of Crusty and the Libs. The intensity of that disgust, however, is more difficult to gauge.

[adambomb]

I am not sick of Christy Clark or the Liberal party. I do not have confidence in John Horgan or any NDP MLA to lead our province. I also don't use childish names to describe people in public office. :smug:

Yes, it is difficult to the gauge level of frustration our citizens have with our provincial government. However, the use of childish names and innuendo makes it pretty easy to figure out which side people are on.

[Traum]

I make no effort in trying to hide my hatred towards "Christy Clark". In my eyes, she has been a disaster to our province, and her "leadership" is one of the primary reasons for our runaway home prices. Just as Adambomb has no confidence in Horgan or the NDP to lead our province, I have no confidence in any of the Liberals -- and especially not Christy Clark -- to lead our province again because she has already proven herself to be a failure.

Coining nicknames to name public figures may or may not be indicative of which side people or on. Pretending to be civil doesn't actually make someone intelligent either, esp when the said person has failed or refused to recognize how the votes have shifted massively from a Liberal majority to some sort of minority government.

[adambomb]

Home prices are still relatively affordable in other parts of the province. The employment opportunities are also abundant in those parts of BC and have the potential to increase with a Liberal government.

Those who feel the Liberals have been a disaster for BC tend to only live in Southern BC and have no regard for the needs of any other citizens outside Metro Vancouver.

Examples:
Citizens against the Site C dam, but have never set foot in Fort St. John. Citizens against the LNG pipeline, but have never set foot in Kitimat.

Please tell me more about how Christy has been a disaster without solely focusing on the issues that affect Metro Vancouver. :considered:

[westopher]

Everybody enjoy your $15 mcdicks meals and $8 coffees.

Just leverage your real estate "investments" and you'll figure it out.

[Traum]

Please tell me more about how Christy has been a disaster without solely focusing on the issues that affect Metro Vancouver. :considered:
I think that question would be better answered by BC voters as a whole, and the election results already speak for themselves on that one.

But if you want a concrete example of why Clark is a disaster for the entire province instead of just Metro Vancouver, you need to look no further than her current refusal to step down as premier. When Weaver announced that the Greens would support the NDP to form a minority government, the right thing for Clark to do for the entire province would have been to concede and step down. Instead, she is unnecessarily dragging things on, and delaying the proper function of our provincial government.

[yray]

Just leverage your real estate "investments" and you'll figure it out.

You mean cars? :troll:

[MrPhreak]

But if you want a concrete example of why Clark is a disaster for the entire province instead of just Metro Vancouver, you need to look no further than her current refusal to step down as premier.

I feel like you don't fully understand what is happening.

She is following the exact proper protocol in this situation, it has been commented on several times by political scientists that she is following exactly what a honorable premier in a minority government ethically should do.

If she wanted to string this out, she could delay it well into September, but she went ahead with a June 22 date and has basically said after her throne speech there will be a confidence vote where she expects to be defeated, and the government in waiting will be sworn in. That will change her role to be leader of the opposition, and likely a new leader will be elected after the dust has settled.

Ditto on the speaker. It is the duty of the government to appoint one, not the opposition. In this case, she expects to be defeated and become the opposition, so they will not be volunteering somebody to be the speaker. This is normal protocol, and not "playing games" as Weaver and Horgan were quoted this week saying. People suggesting that either think the public is so ignorant they won't know this, or they don't understand it themselves.

[6o4__boi]

Those who feel the Liberals have been a disaster for BC tend to only live in Southern BC and have no regard for the needs of any other citizens outside Metro Vancouver.

Examples:
Citizens against the Site C dam, but have never set foot in Fort St. John. Citizens against the LNG pipeline, but have never set foot in Kitimat.

Please tell me more about how Christy has been a disaster without solely focusing on the issues that affect Metro Vancouver. :considered:

BC population - 4.631 Million
Metro Vancouver - 2.463 Million
Fort St. John Population - 18k
Kitimat Population - 8k


So yeah you can excuse my slight disregard for issues outside of metro

Home prices are still relatively affordable in other parts of the province. The employment opportunities are also abundant in those parts of BC and have the potential to increase with a Liberal government. :

Lol.

[MG1]

Fort St. John has that many people?

Damn................


How much for a house there? :troll::troll::troll:

[Tapioca]

BC population - 4.631 Million
Metro Vancouver - 2.463 Million
Fort St. John Population - 18k
Kitimat Population - 8k


So yeah you can excuse my slight disregard for issues outside of metro

Lol.

Those areas of the province are over-represented in the legislature due to population.

Any leader of a political party who ignores the concerns of these areas does so at his/her own peril.

Another way of looking at it is if you strangle the economy in those areas, people will leave and seek opportunities here in Metro Vancouver. Considering the craziness in the rental market and the strain on our existing infrastructure, do people here who already complain about high housing costs want to compete with more people for housing and jobs?

[Traum]

I am not at all suggesting whether Christy is following protocol (or not). Instead, I'm saying she is not doing the proper, prudent, and pragmatic thing. Given the current situation, the Liberals have no chance of forming the next functional government. So in my view, anything short of forfeiting premiership is wasting the province's time even if/when she is following formal protocol.

As suggested in a previous post of mine, NDP and the Greens would be quite naive to think that a Liberals MLA would be willing to step forward to become the Speaker of the House. Not only is it the duty of the government -- and not the opposition -- to appoint one as MrPhreak has pointed out, for a Liberal MLA to take up the position given the current seats distribution is the equivalent of committing political suicide. So I do not blame the Libs for not stepping up to take the Speaker position -- it is not their responsibility.

I feel like you don't fully understand what is happening.

She is following the exact proper protocol in this situation, it has been commented on several times by political scientists that she is following exactly what a honorable premier in a minority government ethically should do.

If she wanted to string this out, she could delay it well into September, but she went ahead with a June 22 date and has basically said after her throne speech there will be a confidence vote where she expects to be defeated, and the government in waiting will be sworn in. That will change her role to be leader of the opposition, and likely a new leader will be elected after the dust has settled.

Ditto on the speaker. It is the duty of the government to appoint one, not the opposition. In this case, she expects to be defeated and become the opposition, so they will not be volunteering somebody to be the speaker. This is normal protocol, and not "playing games" as Weaver and Horgan were quoted this week saying. People suggesting that either think the public is so ignorant they won't know this, or they don't understand it themselves.

[MrPhreak]

I am not at all suggesting whether Christy is following protocol (or not). Instead, I'm saying she is not doing the proper, prudent, and pragmatic thing. Given the current situation, the Liberals have no chance of forming the next functional government. So in my view, anything short of forfeiting premiership is wasting the province's time even if/when she is following formal protocol.

As suggested in a previous post of mine, NDP and the Greens would be quite naive to think that a Liberals MLA would be willing to step forward to become the Speaker of the House. Not only is it the duty of the government -- and not the opposition -- to appoint one as MrPhreak has pointed out, for a Liberal MLA to take up the position given the current seats distribution is the equivalent of committing political suicide. So I do not blame the Libs for not stepping up to take the Speaker position -- it is not their responsibility.

I have seen it suggested by quite a few people that Clark should resign, and normally if you lose the election, that is generally what happens.

In this case, with all political bias aside, there are some pretty good reasons why that isn't happening.

First, they still technically won the most seats of any party, and that in itself entails a duty for them to do their due diligence in serving the people that voted for them. In this case, delivering a throne speech and testing the house is very reasonable.

Second, if Clark resigns, she has to give up her seat in the house, and with every seat in the house being critical to winning confidence votes, it is not in her parties interest, nor the people who voted for her, to weaken her parties influence in the house. Very likely at some point, one of the NDP or Green party people will be late, or sick, or on vacation.... and they will be able to bring the minority government down. By not resigning, she will become the leader of the opposition, and it will put the liberals in a stronger position.

Finally, this entire coalition is pretty fragile, and despite what Horgan and Weaver are saying, we may not even see it come together at all. The NDP have even issued a letter to their supporters that they should donate money in case of a sudden snap election in the next few months. What this comes down to is the Liberals need a leader ready to go in case of a snap election, or in case the Green-NDP thing falls apart even before the confidence vote. It is better if they can let the dust settle, and then try to pick a new leader afterwards.

[Traum]

What this comes down to is the Liberals need a leader ready to go in case of a snap election, or in case the Green-NDP thing falls apart even before the confidence vote. It is better if they can let the dust settle, and then try to pick a new leader afterwards.
Ugh... the Liberals needing a "leader" in case of a snap election... I cringe at the thought of her leading another Liberals election campaign, or worse yet, heading the provincial government for another term... FailFish

Surely if the Liberals replace her with someone else, they'd have a better chance at winning? IMO, there is a lot more negativity and animosity towards Christy Clark than there is towards the Libs.

[Great68]

Anyone who thinks that Horgan wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if situation was reversed has to be kidding themselves....

[Traum]

Anyone who thinks that Horgan wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if situation was reversed has to be kidding themselves....
And he would be criticized in exactly the same way if that were to happen.

[MrPhreak]

Ugh... the Liberals needing a "leader" in case of a snap election... I cringe at the thought of her leading another Liberals election campaign, or worse yet, heading the provincial government for another term... FailFish

Surely if the Liberals replace her with someone else, they'd have a better chance at winning? IMO, there is a lot more negativity and animosity towards Christy Clark than there is towards the Libs.

I don't disagree at all with that at all, and really Christy Clark is burned with BC voters at this point

The issue is that if a sudden snap election comes up, and the Liberals haven't gone through the process to select a new leader yet, they will be force to appoint an interim candidate. That is arguably worse because nobody will know much about the person, and voters may not respond well to being offered a leader that will be swapped out shorty after.

The other thing is the Liberals might actually survive this confidence vote if even a single NDP/Green party member doesn't show up, or even if they come late and get locked out. It has happened in Canada where somebody shows up late and is left outside banging on the door to get in on a critical vote, haha.

Anyone who thinks that Horgan wouldn't be doing the exact same thing if situation was reversed has to be kidding themselves....
At this point none of the parties have taken any kind of action that isn't perfectly in line with proper protocol. The only thing that really made me raise an eyebrow was when Horgan and Weaver were making a big fuss about the speaker and blaming Clark, I realize they are just trying to get the public to side with them, but this is how our government works and the should stop trying to twist it into an attack.

[MrPhreak]

BUMP: Today is the big day

Varying outcomes may occur:

Expected: Liberal government falls on confidence vote and NDP-Green Government in Waiting will take power

Very Possible: Because of the narrow margin and use of speaker as a tie-breaker in all confidence votes, the government in waiting may be rejected and cause an immediate snap election

Could Happen: A green or NDP candidate might be late or absent, or be disgruntled with the coalition and decide to tank the deal by not voting, and the Liberal government will survive for a few more weeks

Least Likely To Occur: The Liberals have tweaked their platform to try and appeal to the NDP and Green more, in hopes they will support them in a minority position

[6o4__boi]

nope today is not really the big day

non-confidence vote isn't expected til next week

today is just the start of all the yakkity yak

[MrPhreak]

nope today is not really the big day

non-confidence vote isn't expected til next week

today is just the start of all the yakkity yak

My understanding this morning the Liberals will appoint a speaker, and then in the afternoon Clark will give her throne speech and there will be a vote of confidence.

B.C. legislature returns June 22, confidence vote on Clark's Liberals expected | CTV News (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/b-c-legislature-returns-june-22-confidence-vote-on-clark-s-liberals-expected-1.3448069)

"....the government would introduce a throne speech, Telford said. There would be a reply from the Opposition, a debate and then a confidence vote."

[6o4__boi]

My understanding this morning the Liberals will appoint a speaker, and then in the afternoon Clark will give her throne speech and there will be a vote of confidence.

B.C. legislature returns June 22, confidence vote on Clark's Liberals expected | CTV News (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/b-c-legislature-returns-june-22-confidence-vote-on-clark-s-liberals-expected-1.3448069)

"....the government would introduce a throne speech, Telford said. There would be a reply from the Opposition, a debate and then a confidence vote."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberal-minority-what-happens-next/article35308750/

The likeliest scenario is that the NDP will propose an amendment to the Throne Speech, which would be a vote of confidence. That vote is expected on June 29.

Hate to disappoint ya...but politicin' ain't quick business.

[MrPhreak]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberal-minority-what-happens-next/article35308750/

Hate to disappoint ya...but politicin' ain't quick business.

Well, there isn't exactly a playbook on how this will go down, they are in uncharted waters. However, from everything I've heard it sounds like the vote is today unless the Liberals intentionally delay it (which Clark has been quoted several times now saying she won't).

I can't see this going on for another week either, so I would say it is happening today

UPDATE: CBC Twitter has reported that the speaker was voted in
CBC News Alerts‏Verified account @CBCAlerts 20m20 minutes ago
BC Liberal voted in as Speaker of provincial legislature. Election of Steve Thomson sets stage for confidence vote.

[pastarocket]

Here is the new speaker, Kelowna-Mission MLA Steve Thomson:


Speaker named for the BC Legislature - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/22/speaker-named-bc-legislature/)


Kelowna-Mission MLA Steve Thomson has been elected as speaker for the BC Legislative Assembly.

He was the only BC Liberal to step forward

[6o4__boi]

lol ok if you say so

I presented the sources. But based on what you're hearing we'll see. It's not that Clark will delay, it's despite all the hoopla surrounding today, there is still due process pointing to the actual vote being next week.
I wish the government did work as fast as you envisioned it.

[MrPhreak]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberal-minority-what-happens-next/article35308750/



Hate to disappoint ya...but politicin' ain't quick business.

Sorry, you may be correct here, there is a 4 day debate on the throne speech

The schedule for what happens next is mapped out in the legislature’s standing orders, which require a minimum of four days of debate on the Throne Speech. On the fourth day – next Thursday – the New Democrats are expected to propose an amendment declaring the legislature has lost confidence in the house.

lol ok if you say so

I presented the sources. But based on what you're hearing we'll see.
I wish the government did work as fast as you envisioned it.

I was thinking there was another mechanism that would trigger the vote for some reason

4 days of debating a throne speech nobody wants to support, lol

[6o4__boi]

guvment...lemme tell ya

[Hondaracer]

Horgan is such a fucking clown uhgg..

Whether christy is being sincere or not she is essentially bowing down to the demands of the other parties with the throne speech and enabling the legislature they wanted implemented

Then this morning Horgan on the radio saying they are ready to vote down all and every aspect of the speech because christy is not being sincere in her actions?

Jesus fuck..

Hope they keep voting everything down until another election is called and they lose that deciding riding.

[Blueboy222]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-OZ834VwAEA1Vm.jpg

[Ch28]

Horgan is such a fucking clown uhgg..

Whether christy is being sincere or not she is essentially bowing down to the demands of the other parties with the throne speech and enabling the legislature they wanted implemented

Then this morning Horgan on the radio saying they are ready to vote down all and every aspect of the speech because christy is not being sincere in her actions?

Jesus fuck..

Hope they keep voting everything down until another election is called and they lose that deciding riding.

You can't trust someone like her that flip flops so much, especially now that she is in a position of weakness.

"oh guys, I PROOOOOMISSSE to not be bad anymore. I swear it!"

[inv4zn]

Horgan is such a fucking clown uhgg..

Whether christy is being sincere or not she is essentially bowing down to the demands of the other parties with the throne speech and enabling the legislature they wanted implemented

Then this morning Horgan on the radio saying they are ready to vote down all and every aspect of the speech because christy is not being sincere in her actions?

Jesus fuck..

Hope they keep voting everything down until another election is called and they lose that deciding riding.

Quite the drama queen ain't you :troll:

lol, failings of Horgan aside, given Crusty's track record, I would take any form of "sincerity" from her with a massive grain of salt.

What I see is Christy not being able to step down from what is blatant loss in confidence in her. If another election is called it'll be just as the fault of the liberals as it is of the ndp.

[jackmeister]

who would be a suitable candidate to replace Christy Clark as party leader?

[Urrtoast]

I didn't vote for a NDP Green collaboration... bunch of loosers
Only 1 party should win

[CRS]

I didn't vote for a NDP Green collaboration... bunch of loosers
Only 1 party should win

This is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread.

We don't have bipartisanship here in Canada.

How do you expect only 1 party to win when there are numerous parties out there representing varying percentages of people?

[Ch28]

Quite the drama queen ain't you :troll:

lol, failings of Horgan aside, given Crusty's track record, I would take any form of "sincerity" from her with a massive grain of salt.

What I see is Christy not being able to step down from what is blatant loss in confidence in her. If another election is called it'll be just as the fault of the liberals as it is of the ndp.

There's a reason why the Liberals have continued to push hard for campaign donations. They received close to 1 MILLION DOLLARS in donations 3 days after the election

B.C. Liberals deposit close to $1 million in donations three days after election | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/b-c-liberals-deposit-close-to-1-million-in-corporate-donations-three-days-after-election)

They definitely have a lot of campaign funding, but I think the general population would really sour on them, especially the ones that are riding the fence on voting Liberals, because of the wasted time and money.

[MrPhreak]

who would be a suitable candidate to replace Christy Clark as party leader?

If it was up to me to pick from the BCL pool, I'd probably pick Jas Johal


You can't trust someone like her that flip flops so much, especially now that she is in a position of weakness.

"oh guys, I PROOOOOMISSSE to not be bad anymore. I swear it!"

I suppose that is one way to look at it

Another way would be to consider the fact that voters in BC are split nearly in half between values of the left and right parties. Really, the Liberals are the only party that seemed to have recognized that they need to try and represent ALL of British Colombians and extended an olive branch to try and bridge the gap. The NDP seems very happy to only represent their half with their hard-line party platforms.


That said, I don't think it was a good move on the Liberals to try and soften their stances. While it is actually somewhat honorable, but there is nothing to be gained by doing it, and it opens them up to exactly this type of opportunistic criticism. Horgan has a giant raging boner for the Premiers seat, and he already sold out his own party to get it, there was no point to this move.

It wouldn't matter to Horgan that they could potentially work collaboratively with the Liberals to achieve some of more important goals and form a more stable government... he is going to take the unstable mess he sold his soul to the Green's for, even if it is just for a few months, haha.

I am actually looking forward to seeing Horgan lose his shit on TV in the next few weeks, he is known to be a massive spaz

[Expresso]

Was there not something more official looking they could have used? Might as well print it in comic sans.
https://twitter.com/richardzussman/status/879436854679838720

[MrPhreak]

OK... last time I bumped the thread it was a bit pre-mature

Today is the day... so either an election will be called, or Horgan and Weaver will take power. The vote will take place late this afternoon, and then at around 5:30 or so, Clark will have to meet with the GG and discuss what happens next.

It could go either way, Clark isn't going to recommend a new election, but she also won't endorse the Green-NDP as a stable option. The GG also is only supposed to take direction from the premier, even if Horgan is banging on the window outside going "COME ON!!!"

[Mr.HappySilp]

Let Horgan in while Chirsty can have her party vote against everything Horgan put forward. I am sure this will put Horgan on his toes because he barely have control of the house and I am sure some of the important stuff he wanted to get pass will get voted down. in a few months election time and Horgan is going to lose a lot of seats coz he can't pass any bills lol.

[vitaminG]

i suspect we will be having another election. i wonder if the liberals will be punished for this or people will be scared and go with the stable choice.

if the liberals manage to get a majority id have to wonder if theyll be trying to replace clark before the next election. theres no way theyll have a leadership contest if theres a minority/coalition since an election could happen at any time

[6o4__boi]

Get rid of Crusty and I can guarantee the Libs will be back in power.

[Mr.HappySilp]

i suspect we will be having another election. i wonder if the liberals will be punished for this or people will be scared and go with the stable choice.

if the liberals manage to get a majority id have to wonder if theyll be trying to replace clark before the next election. theres no way theyll have a leadership contest if theres a minority/coalition since an election could happen at any time

Could be what happens with the Cons when harper was in charge. People were piss with the minority gov and gov him in with majority.

[vitaminG]

Well its done now. I guess we'll be finding out soon if there's going to be a summer election or a greendp government

[murd0c]

we are straight up fucked if there isn't another election

[fsy82]

Well this should be interesting..NDP in power..im scared

[Acura604]

Its done...back to the dark ages...

NDP's John Horgan to become BC Premier - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/29/live-bc-legislature-votes-governments-future/)

[Timbits93]

Interesting times to be living in BC...

[Traum]

Its done...back to the dark ages...

NDP's John Horgan to become BC Premier - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/29/live-bc-legislature-votes-governments-future/)
Question is -- for how long?

With the government as fragile as it is, the 2 most likely outcome from any policy proposal that might actually do something useful is:

1) either it gets stalled due to a tie, and then the Speaker steps in, and more bitching ensues regardless of how the outcome turns out

2) the entire province is always on edge at the threat of another election, and the uncertainty kills any sort of progress in every imaginable sector

So the way I see it is, however things turn out, we as residents in the province are still fxxked. FailFish

[vitaminG]

NDP is bad enough, wonder how much horgan is going to let Weaver push him around.

see if this holds up, cause i doubt either of them will get another chance for a while if they cant make it work.

[tonyzoomzoom]

Interesting times for sure. But there's a lot at stake here for the NDP and the Greens to keep their partnership going.

The NDP needs to show the public that it can in fact run this province.
The Greens need to show that they are more than just a fringe party.

[Rallydrv]

At least we know if ndp fucks up, early election.. it's gonna be a liberal majority

[MrPhreak]

At least we know if ndp fucks up, early election.. it's gonna be a liberal majority

Yup

If Clark had triggered an election, voters would have punished the Liberals big time. Now all of the blame for an early election will be dumped squarely on the NDP-Green.

Most of the stuff they are talking about implementing will get eyebrows raised, but it won't necessarily impact enough people hard enough in the short term to elicit a public reaction.

There is an exception though... My early prediction is that they attempt to tackle housing speculation this summer, and they get carried away. With so many jobs attached to it, and people invested, and a huge amount of BC GDP tied to this industry, there will be some major public backlash. Weaver and Horgan will turn on each-other shortly after that, trying to pass the blame. One of the Green party members will go rouge in response, and tank the alliance.

An early election, angry voters, massive deficit, amidst a potentially failing economy... Liberals will walk back in with a majority by this time next year. Sadly it will take them an entire term to get the mess the NDP-Green will make in that short period of time.

[Rallydrv]

She did ask for a dissolution. But Lt.gov. Asked ndp to govern.

Cc sour loser.

[6o4__boi]

Lol @ Crusty did ask Lt Gov for dissolution and another election after explicitly saying yesterday she wasn't gonna do it.

Lying sack of shit til the end.

Hopefully the Liberals can now get their shit together and bring in a new leader that isn't a lying bag of shit that will just about do a 180 for the sake of staying in power.

[MrPhreak]

Lol @ Crusty did ask Lt Gov for dissolution and another election after explicitly saying yesterday she wasn't gonna do it.

Lying sack of shit til the end.

Hopefully the Liberals can now get their shit together and bring in a new leader that isn't a lying bag of shit that will just about do a 180 for the sake of staying in power.

I was a bit shocked by the fact that she went on camera and stated that. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me, especially after very clearly stating that she wasn't going to ask for that.

The Liberals need to use this downtime to get a new leader in place

[Jmac]

Yup

If Clark had triggered an election, voters would have punished the Liberals big time. Now all of the blame for an early election will be dumped squarely on the NDP-Green.

Most of the stuff they are talking about implementing will get eyebrows raised, but it won't necessarily impact enough people hard enough in the short term to elicit a public reaction.

There is an exception though... My early prediction is that they attempt to tackle housing speculation this summer, and they get carried away. With so many jobs attached to it, and people invested, and a huge amount of BC GDP tied to this industry, there will be some major public backlash. Weaver and Horgan will turn on each-other shortly after that, trying to pass the blame. One of the Green party members will go rouge in response, and tank the alliance.

An early election, angry voters, massive deficit, amidst a potentially failing economy... Liberals will walk back in with a majority by this time next year. Sadly it will take them an entire term to get the mess the NDP-Green will make in that short period of time.
Yeah ... about that ... it never should've gotten to where it is in the first place.

Anyways, based on the NDP-Green agreement, who knows. My opinion is there's not a lot that's going to be done for several reasons.

This is the only text in the NDP-Green agreement that references housing:
Make housing more affordable by increasing supply of affordable housing and take action to deal with the speculation and fraud that is driving up prices.

In the NDP platform, they outline a "10-year action plan" whereby they would fund 114,000 affordable homes over 10 years by implementing a 2% absentee speculator's tax, closing loopholes that allow certain individuals to avoid paying taxes, and create a task force to address fraud and money laundering.

Now, when you take a look at the Green platform, it's extremely different.

The vague text outlined in the NDP-Green agreement sounds a whole lot like the NDP platform and nothing like the Green platform. And to me, that sounds like it's going to be pretty close to status quo.

[Jmac]

I was a bit shocked by the fact that she went on camera and stated that. Pretty disingenuous if you ask me, especially after very clearly stating that she wasn't going to ask for that.

The Liberals need to use this downtime to get a new leader in place
I was literally not shocked at all especially after her behaviour the past month, but even if I hadn't read anything or seen anything this month, it still wouldn't have surprised me. It's been obvious for the better part of this decade.

[GS8]

After the fact but here's the election map

http://bctvkootenays.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/1_election_map_2017.png

Divided indeed

[Traum]

^^ Casually looking at the election map does not paint an accurate picture of how the election results were though.

[Jmac]

40.36% voted Liberal
40.28% voted NDP
19.36% voted neither (mostly Green)

[MrPhreak]

Yeah ... about that ... it never should've gotten to where it is in the first place.
True, I won't disagree with that. It is a shitty situation that the government should have intervened on a while ago, but this is the way it is right now. You can trace the low unemployment rate directly back to the boom in real estate. Mess with it too much or too quickly, and there will be some pretty serious consequences.

According to the Sun, 25% of our GDP is depending on it. That is a staggering number, and extremely precarious.
http://vancouversun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-b-c-economy-depends-on-real-estate

I've heard/read that number may even be as high as 40% when you consider all of the attached supporting industries (engineering, grey renovations, hardware sales, mortgage brokers and lenders, etc)

Anyways, based on the NDP-Green agreement, who knows. My opinion is there's not a lot that's going to be done for several reasons.

This is the only text in the NDP-Green agreement that references housing:

In the NDP platform, they outline a "10-year action plan" whereby they would fund 114,000 affordable homes over 10 years by implementing a 2% absentee speculator's tax, closing loopholes that allow certain individuals to avoid paying taxes, and create a task force to address fraud and money laundering.

Now, when you take a look at the Green platform, it's extremely different.

The vague text outlined in the NDP-Green agreement sounds a whole lot like the NDP platform and nothing like the Green platform. And to me, that sounds like it's going to be pretty close to status quo.

I disagree that it will be status quo, both parties campaigned heavily on heavy handed action in the housing market. The Greens wanted to completely remove speculators from the market, and punish anybody who even thinks about a owning 7 figure home.

It might have just been talk, they are political parties after all, but I think we are going to see some big changes coming.

If I had to guess at the changes, assuming they are blended values, it would look like this:
1) 20% Foreign Buyers Tax, Province Wide
2) 2% Speculation Tax applied to anybody not working here
3) Changes to land transfer tax (more for 7 figure homes)
4) Changes to home owners grant (less)
5) Changes in rules with regards to companies owning residential homes
6) Capital gains tax applied to homes bought and sold within a year (or more... maybe 3 or even 5 years)
7) Funding for new provincial CRA task group to specifically target shadow speculators

WILD CARD: Banning foreign ownership all together (probably won't happen, but we are deep in uncharted waters with this left wing alliance right now)

[MarkyMark]

Not a chance they'll ban foreign ownership when you can just make it a cash cow.

[Tapioca]

Doesn't matter what the NDP/Greens do on housing.

If you don't have a detached house in Metro Vancouver today, you still won't get one 2 years from now.

[MG1]

Corruption and liars vs incompetence................ incompetence won.

I'm too old to have anything to say as nothing would affect me as a retired individual with no mortgage or need to buy a house, but young people like my kids are in for a rough ride. Mind you, life wasn't all rosy back when I was young, either. In fact, maybe bad times is what this new generation needs. Teach them the true meaning of hardship.

Yeah, the NDP/Green alliance will probably fuck up this province big time. I have little to no confidence in them. Having said that, I'm super glad Crusty got ousted. Even better is that, Peter "Bend 'er over Fast," is gone, Gulolol.

[6o4__boi]

I disagree that it will be status quo, both parties campaigned heavily on heavy handed action in the housing market. The Greens wanted to completely remove speculators from the market, and punish anybody who even thinks about a owning 7 figure home.

It might have just been talk, they are political parties after all, but I think we are going to see some big changes coming.

If I had to guess at the changes, assuming they are blended values, it would look like this:
1) 20% Foreign Buyers Tax, Province Wide
2) 2% Speculation Tax applied to anybody not working here
3) Changes to land transfer tax (more for 7 figure homes)
4) Changes to home owners grant (less)
5) Changes in rules with regards to companies owning residential homes
6) Capital gains tax applied to homes bought and sold within a year (or more... maybe 3 or even 5 years)
7) Funding for new provincial CRA task group to specifically target shadow speculators

WILD CARD: Banning foreign ownership all together (probably won't happen, but we are deep in uncharted waters with this left wing alliance right now)


lol again, i applaud your enthusiasm and spirit behind the belief of government making quick, big changes. But I've worked with and seen enough of the processes within to say that it'd be really amazing if even 2 or 3 of the things you've listed are implemented.

I think it'll be business as usual while a transition happens. It's a fragile situation and the Liberals are guaranteed to make it as difficult as possible for the fragile alliance.

The only government that works fast is municipal. Namely Vancouver. And only if it involves bike lanes.

[MG1]

I think it'll be business as usual while a transition happens. It's a fragile situation and the Liberals are guaranteed to make it as difficult as possible for the fragile alliance.

Yup, the Liberals are actually in the driver's seat. They have the smarts to play it right. They have money and experience. They know Crusty has to go in order to succeed. The NDP have little to no money and are dumb as fuck. Forcing an election too soon is not a good thing for the Liberals as they need to find a new leader, but forcing one soon won't give the NDP time to raise needed campaign funds.

The only government that works fast is municipal. Namely Vancouver. And only if it involves bike lanes.

Bwahahahaha................ good one.

[vitaminG]

I doubt christy clark is going anywhere. With the situation so unstable they need to be ready for another election at any time. leadership contest can take months.

[JDMStyo]

B.C. Liberals leave checkered legacy following 16 years of power - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-liberals-leave-checkered-legacy-following-16-years-of-power-1.4185893)

[MrPhreak]

Ready or not, here we go... Horgan and his cabinet are being sworn in on Tuesday. It will be interesting to see how they tread lightly with cabinet positions, a single disgruntled member that feels slighted if they get passed over could bring the entire government down!

B.C.?s NDP government will be officially sworn in on July 18 | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-ndp-government-to-be-officially-sworn-in-on-july-18)

Additionally, the NDP and Greens have hired a director to oversee the Green-NDP Alliance (paid fully by tax payers of course). Horgan is known to be pretty bad tempered at times, so I think this is how they plan to deal with that so he doesn't tank the government when he has a temper tantrum. Hard to say if it will work though.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-ndp-appoints-director-to-oversight-body-for-alliance-with-greens/article35704213/

It will be interesting to see what they plan to do about the KM Pipeline, given that it is on an existing right of way and fully approved by the federal government. They are talking pretty big about it, but they need to be pretty creative to put a halt to it.

I've also heard that BC Hyrdo tied up a lot of their contracts on site-C before they took power, and fine print for breaking them will incur heavy costs that outweigh continuing with the project.

The vagueness on what they plan to do about the housing market is particularly worrisome. They talk tough, but no details on exactly what the plan is. Do they have the teeth to tear down the speculation market, or are they just posturing?

[Jmac]

I think (hope) the Kinder Morgan pipeline talk is just for show. The Federal Liberals and the Alberta NDP negotiated that pipeline as part of the carbon tax implementation in Alberta.

Site C is going to be necessary at some point unless there's a substantial increase in solar installations. With climate change causing more severe and longer cold snaps and heat waves and electric cars becoming more commonplace, the demand is likely to outpace what they can save via energy conservation measures.

[MrPhreak]

Site C is going to be necessary at some point unless there's a substantial increase in solar installations. With climate change causing more severe and longer cold snaps and heat waves and electric cars becoming more commonplace, the demand is likely to outpace what they can save via energy conservation measures.

I am a bit confused why the NDP and Green are against this project, even totally ignoring the economic benefit of a big project like this, hydroelectric power is one of the cleanest sources on the planet, and dams offer other advantages like drought and flood protection.

Currently BC Hydro operates two turbine generating stations, one at Prince Rupert and a second in Fort Nelson. The Prince Rupert Generating Station is permitted to operate 300 days a year using natural gas as the primary fuel source. Meanwhile, the Fort Nelson can be run only on natural gas with waste heat being captured to generate additional power via a steam turbine.

They are saying that both of these might be able to be shut down whenever site C is up and running, making BC's carbon footprint even smaller. Not to mention, as electric cars start becoming more popular, increased demand on the grid is going to need to be met over the next 10 to 15 years.


They keep saying wind is the answer, but I am strongly opposed to wind power myself. It has been having a dramatic effect on bat and bird populations wherever they go in. Unless they can figure out a less damaging way to collect wind power, it is stupid to keep putting them up. Why does the Green party even support this kind of stuff!?

Wind farms causing thousands of bats to die of collapsed lungs annually in Alberta: top bat expert | National Post (http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wind-farms-causing-thousands-of-bats-to-die-of-collapsed-lungs-annually-in-alberta-top-bat-expert/wcm/58dec358-dc69-4d88-933f-8ddcfccba6d2)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/29/bird-deaths-wind-turbines/21358155/

[Jmac]

My understanding was that it was primarily due to land loss by flooding the valley. So loss of first nations land, farm land, and habitat. IIRC at least part of it is in a national park.

[Traum]

I really dislike the term "green energy" because as far as I'm concerned, no current method of energy generation is "green". It is really just a matter of which poison you choose, and what impacts you have to deal with.

Hydro power results in massive loss of land and habitat, and have a drastic effect on salmon life. Construction is also hugely expensive, and the size of the plant is not really too scalable.

They keep saying wind is the answer, but I am strongly opposed to wind power myself. It has been having a dramatic effect on bat and bird populations wherever they go in. Unless they can figure out a less damaging way to collect wind power, it is stupid to keep putting them up. Why does the Green party even support this kind of stuff!?

Wind farms causing thousands of bats to die of collapsed lungs annually in Alberta: top bat expert | National Post (http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wind-farms-causing-thousands-of-bats-to-die-of-collapsed-lungs-annually-in-alberta-top-bat-expert/wcm/58dec358-dc69-4d88-933f-8ddcfccba6d2)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/29/bird-deaths-wind-turbines/21358155/

My understanding was that it was primarily due to land loss by flooding the valley. So loss of first nations land, farm land, and habitat. IIRC at least part of it is in a national park.

[MrPhreak]

Hydro power results in massive loss of land and habitat, and have a drastic effect on salmon life. Construction is also hugely expensive, and the size of the plant is not really too scalable.

I kind of disagree about the scalability aspect. The Revelstoke dam for instance was constructed with several future turbine pipes, and over the years they have been able to add capacity. Advancements in energy production with low speed turbines has also been helping older facilities produce more energy as demand increases.

In terms of habitat loss, wind farms are arguable just as bad, if not worse. At least with new bodies of water the natural habitat adjusts around it. With wind farms the noise produces tends to drive away wildlife and interrupt migration routes, plus kill birds and bats in record numbers.

At the end of the day the power has to come from somewhere, electric cars are not going to power themselves. As much these environmentalists whom are against all projects will speak out, the second you cut their power and their AC goes off, they will be just as angry. I don't understand where they are even coming from sometimes... you hate all human projects to generate power and produce resources, yet you still want to purchase and charge your iphone?

I am curious though, from your post you seem to be against site-c. Are you an advocate of Nuclear or another power source then?

[Traum]

I am not outrightly opposed to Site C. However, I find the cost overruns to be quite staggering. With the massively increasing Hydro rate hikes, it is also difficult to not mentally associate the rate increases with Site C's costs.

I am definitely not a nuclear advocate though. Out of all the possible methods of energy generation, the current nuclear technology has to be the worst possible method to produce power since we have no good solution to deal with the nuclear waste.

I don't personally favour one source of energy over another -- as I mentioned earlier, I think they all have their pros and cons, and you just have to pick the most appropriate application for the locale.

[MrPhreak]

I am not outrightly opposed to Site C. However, I find the cost overruns to be quite staggering. With the massively increasing Hydro rate hikes, it is also difficult to not mentally associate the rate increases with Site C's costs.

I am definitely not a nuclear advocate though. Out of all the possible methods of energy generation, the current nuclear technology has to be the worst possible method to produce power since we have no good solution to deal with the nuclear waste.

I don't personally favour one source of energy over another -- as I mentioned earlier, I think they all have their pros and cons, and you just have to pick the most appropriate application for the locale.

Yeah I agree with you on Nuclear, I don't think it is a good solution for BC, especially given our earthquake prone terrain.

I've always been in favor of Hydro over other power production methods, and I while I agree the upfront costs are expensive, the in the long term it does tend to be one of the cheapest, and most reliable ways to produce power.

One thing to consider is one of the main reasons that our electricity costs are going up here is because the government has been using the service to subsidize the budget. For the 2014-2015 budget, the Liberals were taking $1.23 billion in dividends from BC Hydro over three fiscal years.

[Traum]

A little surprised that this has not been posted here yet:

B.C. Hydro president and CEO Jessica McDonald fired | Georgia Straight Vancouver's News & Entertainment Weekly (http://www.straight.com/news/939816/bc-hydro-president-and-ceo-jessica-mcdonald-fired)

Her firing is certainly not surprising, but it makes me wonder how much the province is paying out in severance / early termination of her contract. The fate of Site C is also naturally another question in everyone's mind.

[Traum]

This particular reporter / columist seems to think Horgan is going to can the Site C project:

Mike Smyth: Horgan?s 100-day plan is ambitious, aggressive | The Province (http://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-horgans-100-day-plan-is-ambitious-aggressive)

SITE C DAM: Watch for the government to quickly refer the $8.8-billion megaproject to the B.C. Utilities Commission for a promised review, possibly as early as this week.

The fate of the project — under construction and employing 2,000 people — looms as the most costly and controversial early decision of the Horgan government.

I used to think Horgan didn’t have the nerve to cancel the dam, but now I’m not so sure. He named George Heyman — a fierce Site C critic — as his environment minister, and there is intense internal pressure to kill the project, no matter how many people get fired.
Should the project be stopped, I am not particularly concerned about the firing of those who are employed by the project -- there is plenty of construction work (esp housing) around, so I don't see any need to worry about their employment prospects.

However, what I am concerned about is -- what is the current costs-benefits analysis on the continuing with, or cancelling the project? Is it more expensive or more money already wasted than can be saved from cancelling? Is there a need for the province to have the extra capacity in the planned construction timeline?

The ICBC situation (not mentioned in the above link) is also quite interesting with the leaked report to Postmedia. With both sides pointing fingers and laying blame on the other, it is disgusting to see that both the Libs and the NDP care more about politics than what is good for the BC drivers.

[Jmac]

I doubt there's a lot of housing projects going on in northern BC.

[dark0821]

^ exactly... and defn not enough of this scale anyways.


And plus... what I do not understand is that a contract was signed... you would think the contractors would have covered their asses when they typed up the contract... so to cancel it now would mean all those tax dollars already spend + huge amounts of severance (more tax dollars)... I mean its not like they can reuse the resources already spent on another project...

What are they gonna do? Build a park with all the landscaping they have done already?

[MG1]

Clark just resigned.

Liberals now have a chance.

[Hondaracer]

NDP with that fuckign clown Eby at the helm now postpone their plans to ban corp funding for political parties... lol...

[carisear]

Clark just resigned.

Liberals now have a chance.


She is the single reason liberals did not win a majority this election. good on her for putting the party first.

if I was in that position I don't know what i'd do .. the money difference is quite significant.

[murd0c]

I really wonder who's going to take her place

[MarkyMark]

if I was in that position I don't know what i'd do .. the money difference is quite significant.

She's already set herself up for life, she won't be short on cash I can guarantee you that.

[Ch28]

She is the single reason liberals did not win a majority this election. good on her for putting the party first.

if I was in that position I don't know what i'd do .. the money difference is quite significant.

:lol:lol:lol

You make it sound like she's going to be living on the streets after losing the status of BC Premier. She's set herself up with all the corporate backdoor funding and will most likely land herself in a ridiculously cushy private sector job.

[murd0c]

not only that she's going to be making nothing but money from the government pension she's going to get

[MrPhreak]

not only that she's going to be making nothing but money from the government pension she's going to get

There are always high profile jobs waiting for people like Clark

Take the other Clark for instance, the ex NDP premier, Glen Clark. I believe he is Jimmy Patterson's right hand man

Patterson group is apparently the largest privately held company in Canada, worth something like 8 billion dollars... and ol' Jimmy is 88 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Pattison_Group

[Great68]

I doubt there's a lot of housing projects going on in northern BC.

Yeah, all those companies geared & skilled up for a large scale industrial project in rural BC can just make the jump into building condo towers in Vancouver...
Construction is construction right?

LOL!

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

dumb cunt, it's about time bitch left. Her face alone pisses me off